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Posted
  On 3/6/2021 at 4:40 PM, Richard Kimball said:

 

Let me open up this one by asking, "When was the last time Kansas made a GOOD decision in hiring a football coach?"

Right now, KU is probably one of the least desirable P5 coaching positions. 

Here's where desperate people do desperate things, and college revenue sports, specifically men's football and basketball, are some of the dirtiest institutions around. If someone can generate wins on the field or the court, schools will do back flips to maintain plausible deniability about misconduct. I'd put the over/under at about 30% of P5 colleges that have run prostitution rings out of the athletic department for recruiting purposes. 

Prior to Kansas, Miles had coached 16 years, been to 15 bowl games, and had won a national championship. He should have been gold when he left LSU, but he didn't coach for two years, and took less than the contract required on his buyout from LSU. Absolutely agree there were rumors out there about him or somebody would have jumped on him immediately. 

So LSU attempted to avoid a scandal by separating from Miles in as low profile a method as possible, which meant instead of firing for cause, they pretended a 2-2 start to a season was enough to let him go. 

Kansas thought they could grab a national championship coach on the cheap, and there probably wouldn't be any blowback, cause the LSU stuff hadn't hit the press, and it had been two years. 

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I absolutely think that KU heard the rumors, likely Long himself. But I also think that in the ugly world of paper trails and investigations, KU likely does have the type of plausible deniability that would get them through separating Les for cause. LSU absolutely does not have any defense for their behavior and almost certainly struck a deal with Les to bury their half assed investigation in exchange for a lower buyout and for keeping quiet when a potential employer came calling. Because once they were in for a penny, they were in for a pound on that coverup. 

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Posted
  On 3/6/2021 at 4:46 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

I absolutely think that KU heard the rumors, likely Long himself. But I also think that in the ugly world of paper trails and investigations, KU likely does have the type of plausible deniability that would get them through separating Les for cause. LSU absolutely does not have any defense for their behavior and almost certainly struck a deal with Les to bury their half assed investigation in exchange for a lower buyout and for keeping quiet when a potential employer came calling. Because once they were in for a penny, they were in for a pound on that coverup. 

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Yeah, and LSU hasn't cleaned up their act either. When they let go of OC Matt Canada in 2019, both sides signed a non-disclosure agreement. There's more to that than Orgeron and him didn't get along. 

Posted
  On 3/6/2021 at 4:55 PM, Richard Kimball said:

Yeah, and LSU hasn't cleaned up their act either. When they let go of OC Matt Canada in 2019, both sides signed a non-disclosure agreement. There's more to that than Orgeron and him didn't get along. 

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I really don’t think NDAs should be legal if you’re employed at a government institution. For either side.  

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Posted (edited)

Whatever happens here I can only guarantee long will fuck it up. 
 

I don’t think you fire Les because of something that happened 6-9 years ago but he should have never been hired because of this. That’s on Jeff Long. More interesting, look at the whole scenario. Firing miles will be a nuclear bomb to the program and roster. What is actually a pretty rebuilt roster going into 2021. We’d likely have to hire a D2 coach or maybe a mid-major assistant. We’d have massive roster turnover and be starting from scratch. We haven’t had a winning season in 12 years. That streak could easily extend to 20 if we lose the roster we have. 
 

Secondly, look at the athletic department. We’re bleeding money. We have a women’s basketball coach that needs to be fired. We have a baseball coach that needs to be fired. We have awful football facilities. We have a head basketball coach that needs a new contract. Oh and we have the NCAA about to go in deep on us. Now... given that long should be fired for hiring miles who in the fuck would want to take on the AD job??? Further, we are paying $1.5M a year to Long because of solely the ncaa investigation. We’d have to pay someone $5M a year if they negotiate on all of the above points. If KU basketball gets wiped out we are looking at becoming SMU. 

Edited by Jhawk
Posted
  On 3/6/2021 at 3:38 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

Yep.  I have worked in HR for a large organization (not my favorite gig).  You are EXTREMELY limited in whatever you say, and if it’s not backed up by paper......You say nothing.  You’re itching for a lawsuit. 
 

“So, you told my client’s potential employer that he engaged in sexual misconduct while in your institution’s employ. Can you please show us where that’s documented and how your institution disciplined him?”
 

My take is that this is all on LSU. If anything, KU might have a case against them, but sovereign immunity. 

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I thought you were only able to say if they are eligible for rehire or not.

Posted
  On 3/6/2021 at 6:17 PM, Brothahorn said:
I thought you were only able to say if they are eligible for rehire or not.

Yep. IIRC, rehire eligibility, dates of employment, and salary are the only things that can be provided without risk of being sued.
Posted
  On 3/6/2021 at 6:05 PM, Jhawk said:

Whatever happens here I can only guarantee long will fuck it up. 
 

I don’t think you fire Les because of something that happened 6-9 years ago but he should have never been hired because of this. That’s on Jeff Long. More interesting, look at the whole scenario. Firing miles will be a nuclear bomb to the program and roster. What is actually a pretty rebuilt roster going into 2021. We’d likely have to hire a D2 coach or maybe a mid-major assistant. We’d have massive roster turnover and be starting from scratch. We haven’t had a winning season in 12 years. That streak could easily extend to 20 if we lose the roster we have. 
 

Secondly, look at the athletic department. We’re bleeding money. We have a women’s basketball coach that needs to be fired. We have a baseball coach that needs to be fired. We have awful football facilities. We have a head basketball coach that needs a new contract. Oh and we have the NCAA about to go in deep on us. Now... given that long should be fired for hiring miles who in the fuck would want to take on the AD job??? Further, we are paying $1.5M a year to Long because of solely the ncaa investigation. We’d have to pay someone $5M a year if they negotiate on all of the above points. If KU basketball gets wiped out we are looking at becoming SMU. 

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Posted
  On 3/6/2021 at 6:17 PM, Brothahorn said:

I thought you were only able to say if they are eligible for rehire or not.

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That’s a rule a lot of employers follow because it’s extremely safe but in nearly all states you can go plenty further.

If you get fired, an employer can say so and can give the reason for your termination. Truth  is a defense to defamation. “We had to let him go because he failed three drug tests” is completely above board as long as you have documentation. So is “he was released because an internal investigation concluded that he violated our sexual harassment policies.”

In fact, it’s not good practice to avoid informing about stuff that’s criminal, or sexual harassment, or substance abuse. At that point you’re also opening yourself up to potential suits from other companies and definitely aren’t helping your reputation.

Posted
  On 3/6/2021 at 4:40 PM, Richard Kimball said:

 

Prior to Kansas, Miles had coached 16 years, been to 15 bowl games, and had won a national championship. He should have been gold when he left LSU, but he didn't coach for two years, and took less than the contract required on his buyout from LSU. Absolutely agree there were rumors out there about him or somebody would have jumped on him immediately. 

So LSU attempted to avoid a scandal by separating from Miles in as low profile a method as possible, which meant instead of firing for cause, they pretended a 2-2 start to a season was enough to let him go. 

Kansas thought they could grab a national championship coach on the cheap, and there probably wouldn't be any blowback, cause the LSU stuff hadn't hit the press, and it had been two years. 

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They had been trying to get rid of Miles for a few years and it had nothing to do with the scandal. I'm too lazy to look at the timeline but it's my understanding that all of his creepy shit that he got reprimanded for happened long before he got fired. If I'm wrong, correct me please. 

The real reason he got fired is because the LSU power brokers got tired of only scoring 9 points against Bama. Les inherited Saban's machine at LSU and he, along with their in state network and their ability to churn out draft picks + Tommy Moffitt, was a good enough recruiter to keep it running. But Les did incomprehensible things on the field like not knowing how game stoppages work, wack decisions on fourth down and just general head scratching shit on a weekly basis. Plus he came off as a punch line. And he never adapted his offense. That's why nobody jumped on this "national title winning coach." We're talking about the SEC here. You think they would fire a coach that they believed could beat Saban because of what he did? 

One thing that is really interesting in all of this is his buyout. Lsu owed him $12. 9 million when they canned him and he settled for $1.5. I guess we know the reason why now. 

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Posted
  On 3/7/2021 at 3:25 PM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

One thing that is really interesting in all of this is his buyout. Lsu owed him $12. 9 million when they canned him and he settled for $1.5. I guess we know the reason why now. 

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Waitaminnit, who we talkin' about, here? I thought you said "Miles", but now it sounds more like "Briles" - which is it?

Posted
  On 3/7/2021 at 3:25 PM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

They had been trying to get rid of Miles for a few years and it had nothing to do with the scandal. I'm too lazy to look at the timeline but it's my understanding that all of his creepy shit that he got reprimanded for happened long before he got fired. If I'm wrong, correct me please. 

The real reason he got fired is because the LSU power brokers got tired of only scoring 9 points against Bama. Les inherited Saban's machine at LSU and he, along with their in state network and their ability to churn out draft picks + Tommy Moffitt, was a good enough recruiter to keep it running. But Les did incomprehensible things on the field like not knowing how game stoppages work, wack decisions on fourth down and just general head scratching shit on a weekly basis. Plus he came off as a punch line. And he never adapted his offense. That's why nobody jumped on this "national title winning coach." We're talking about the SEC here. You think they would fire a coach that they believed could beat Saban because of what he did? 

One thing that is really interesting in all of this is his buyout. Lsu owed him $12. 9 million when they canned him and he settled for $1.5. I guess we know the reason why now. 

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I've gotten to interview a lot of B12 coaches at the summer media days, and the only two that had me sitting there after the interview going "what the ever loving fuck?" were Les Miles and Tom Herman. Non-sequitur answers and totally off the wall comments that made little sense. 

Not that anyone cares, but my general impression from interviews with other B12 coaches:

Gary Patterson -- perpetually butt hurt, acts like someone tried to take the last long john out of the donut box just to spite him.

Charlie Strong -- Damn that dude is short. In over his head. Had a few canned responses, but got in trouble answering specific questions. 

Lincoln Riley -- Good stage presence, has media figured out. Knows how to give a good quote line that won't come back and bite him in the ass.

Matt Campbell -- hard ass. Let's get this media shit over so I can get back to coaching. OK interview, but doesn't want to be there.

Bill Snyder -- Was elder statesman, got handled with kid gloves by press, and knew how to take advantage of it.

Anyway, no doubt there were other issues with Miles. 

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Posted
  On 3/7/2021 at 3:34 PM, Tex Long said:

Waitaminnit, who we talkin' about, here? I thought you said "Miles", but now it sounds more like "Briles" - which is it?

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Briles got something like $15 million on his payout. He did some wrong shit, but like with LSU, a lot of it was also on the admin. Baylor tried to use him as a Judas goat, gave him "shut up" money, and hoped the scandals would leave with him. 

Posted
  On 3/6/2021 at 2:55 PM, Blotto said:

KU couldn't ask for a more experienced AD to shepherd them through a coaching sex scandal. Jeff Long is probably going to hire a eunuch for the next coach. 

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I don't believe Jeff is there for long. With what KU has going on already with the bball program and now this? 

Posted
  On 3/7/2021 at 4:54 PM, El Diablo said:

I don't believe Jeff is there for long. With what KU has going on already with the bball program and now this? 

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They might dump him over the Miles hiring, but Self has been with Kansas since 2003 and Long just got there in 2018. Any basketball shenanigans started way before Long got there. 

Also, Long might be Self's supervisor in title, but I doubt he can tell him much. 

Posted

I think he was hired in part to shepherd KU thru the bball mess, I'm pretty sure they knew it was potentially coming when he was chosen as AD. He,  imho, also had to have overlooked rumors among those in the know of Les at LSU. I could see a whole housecleaning happening. 

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Posted

Any idea on why LSU was chasing this 8 years later?  Looking to claw back some of the money they paid him and call it firing for cause (though that doesn't seem plausible)?

Or just fuck you,  les, because we can?  

Posted

So Les got fired for chasing college tail 10 plus years ago?   Am I missing something I haven’t read up on this but if it’s him trying to get laid as a HC on campus so what?   Even if he’s a creepy fuck in general.  If he was Cliff K would this be a story?

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:12 AM, Hook1997 said:

So Les got fired for chasing college tail 10 plus years ago?   Am I missing something I haven’t read up on this but if it’s him trying to get laid as a HC on campus so what?   Even if he’s a creepy fuck in general.  If he was Cliff K would this be a story?

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Sexual misconduct is a fireable offense, believe it or not.

Posted
  On 3/7/2021 at 11:41 PM, El Diablo said:

I think he was hired in part to shepherd KU thru the bball mess, I'm pretty sure they knew it was potentially coming when he was chosen as AD. He,  imho, also had to have overlooked rumors among those in the know of Les at LSU. I could see a whole housecleaning happening. 

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This is correct. He has an auto renewal in his contract for whatever amount of years our penalty from the ncaa might be. Which complicates firing him. It also makes a lot of KU fans wonder where his heart is on the appeal. He has made some suspect moves, against HCBS’s wishes, that have hurt us in our case. 

Posted
  On 3/4/2021 at 10:12 PM, Beau Vine said:
Still not against policy as long as the student isn't in your class or in a subordinate work role.

At UT, no faculty or staff can be in a relationship with an undergrad. It’s the Kearney-Applewhite rule.
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:14 AM, Machinator said:

Sexual misconduct is a fireable offense, believe it or not.

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So as a head coach of a big school, asking a of age girl to come back to your place is sexual misconduct?  But in the sugar daddy thread even younger is fine?? I’ve lost where the line is now for a fireable offense here?   If he just asked girls over ten years ago  how is that a fireable offense now?

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:28 AM, Hook1997 said:

So as a head coach of a big school, asking a of age girl to come back to your place is sexual misconduct?  But in the sugar daddy thread even younger is fine?? I’ve lost where the line is now for a fireable offense here?   If he just asked girls over ten years ago  how is that a fireable offense now?

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I wasn't aware that forcing yourself on girls and harassing them was the same as asking them out but maybe we just were raised differently

Posted

By the way the statement by Long is hilarious, he literally just says "we have a lot of talent, we have to win games" because that's what this circus is all about

 

It'd be an absolute embarrassment if they let him make it through the coaching search

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Posted (edited)
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:33 AM, Teryor said:

I wasn't aware that forcing yourself on girls and harassing them was the same as asking them out but maybe we just were raised differently

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From what I’ve read there’s no forcing himself on anyone...   I’m not standing up for the guy but this is from girls that sa made them feel uncomfortable.  That could be just asking a girl out or over to his house, I don’t see where he forced anything.  Like I said maybe I’m missing something and I don’t like the guy but just asking girls over or being suggestive is not misconduct or abuse.   I don’t like the guy but how about you l look at the facts come out before you say someone forced anyone to do anything?

Edited by Hook1997
Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:48 AM, Hook1997 said:

From what I’ve read there’s no forcing himself on anyone...   I’m not standing up for the guy but this is from girls that say he made them feel uncomfortable.  That could be just asking a girl out or over to his house, I don’t see where he forced anything.  Like I said maybe I’m missing something and I don’t like the guy but just asking girls over or being suggestive is not misconduct or abuse.

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Maybe some 'morality' clause in his contract? Maybe these incidents at LSU were not disclosed prior to him being tendered the contract? 

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:37 AM, Teryor said:

By the way the statement by Long is hilarious, he literally just says "we have a lot of talent, we have to win games" because that's what this circus is all about

 

It'd be an absolute embarrassment if they let him make it through the coaching search

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His last four football hires are Petrino, John L. Smith, Bielema, and Les.  I think Long will be sitting this one out.

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:48 AM, Hook1997 said:

From what I’ve read there’s no forcing himself on anyone...   I’m not standing up for the guy but this is from girls that say he made them feel uncomfortable.  That could be just asking a girl out or over to his house, I don’t see where he forced anything.  Like I said maybe I’m missing something and I don’t like the guy but just asking girls over or being suggestive is not misconduct or abuse.

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Miles was told by his AD not to text, phone, or be alone with any of the student workers in the office, and he went out and did all those things.

And for fuck's sake, he's not asking female tenured professors out or to come over to his house, he's asking 20-year-old student workers in the football office.

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:48 AM, Hook1997 said:

From what I’ve read there’s no forcing himself on anyone...   I’m not standing up for the guy but this is from girls that sa made them feel uncomfortable.  That could be just asking a girl out or over to his house, I don’t see where he forced anything.  Like I said maybe I’m missing something and I don’t like the guy but just asking girls over or being suggestive is not misconduct or abuse.   I don’t like the guy but how about you l look at the facts come out before you say someone forced anyone to do anything?

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Sure let's go with these quotes from USAToday

  Quote

At the height of his fame as Louisiana State University’s head football coach, Les Miles was accused of texting female students, taking them to his condo alone, making them feel uncomfortable and, on at least one occasion, kissing a student, according to an internal investigative report released by LSU on Thursday.

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  Quote

But that mischaracterizes the findings of the report, which said “we are unable to determine what occurred” in Miles' car, where the woman said Miles had kissed her twice. Moreover, as a result of the investigation’s findings, LSU issued Miles a letter of reprimand and required him to sign forms stating that he had read and understood the school’s policies.

The university also ordered him to stop hiring student employees to babysit, cease being alone with them, and attend eight, one-hour sessions with an attorney and pay for it out of his own pocket.

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At the very least, he's using a position of power to take advantage of these women. And he used his position in order to create these situations with the women. The uncomfortable part is obviously vague but the reason this became an issue is that the women reported their issues with Mils to the LSU Title IX office and that Miles tried to make sure this never was made public. 

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 4:58 AM, Beau Vine said:

Miles was told by his AD not to text, phone, or be alone with any of the student workers in the office, and he went out and did all those things.

And for fuck's sake, he's not asking female tenured professors out or to come over to his house, he's asking 20-year-old student workers in the football office.

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Where did you see he was told that?  Also was it before or after the incident?  I didn’t see where it’s office workers.   

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 3:58 AM, Radical Larry said:

 

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It’a pretty hilarious to think of the number of assistant coaches across the country that would turn this job down. They’re gonna have to hire another position coach, or a 1AA HC, or maybe go for a completely washed up guy. Maybe someone like...

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 5:05 AM, Teryor said:

Sure let's go with these quotes from USAToday

At the very least, he's using a position of power to take advantage of these women. And he used his position in order to create these situations with the women. The uncomfortable part is obviously vague but the reason this became an issue is that the women reported their issues with Mils to the LSU Title IX office and that Miles tried to make sure this never was made public. 

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Yup... it’s not too hard to see which way the school will go with this.  #metoo still has staying power on college campuses and the administrations rather cut their loses instead of letting due process take its course. 

Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 5:08 AM, Hook1997 said:

Where did you see he was told that?  Also was it before or after the incident?  I didn’t see where it’s office workers.   

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https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/email-shows-former-lsu-ad-joe-alleva-pushed-incoming-president-to-fire-les-miles-in-2013-for-cause/

You didn't see where it's office workers?  Have you read anything in this thread, or are you just replying blindly like Rocko?

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 5:12 AM, Burt Macklin said:

It’a pretty hilarious to think of the number of assistant coaches across the country that would turn this job down. They’re gonna have to hire another position coach, or a 1AA HC, or maybe go for a completely washed up guy. Maybe someone like...

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It's fascinating seeing the names being thrown out, I don't think most would even consider the position

 

Here's Feldman 

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Thamel

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I don't see why 80% of these names would go for one of the few worst P5 jobs in the country, especially right now, and especially with Long still in place for some reason

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Posted
  On 3/9/2021 at 5:17 AM, Teryor said:

Wyoming’s Craig Bohl is another proven winner with Big 12-area roots. A 62-year-old Nebraska native, who played defensive back for the Cornhuskers and later coached at Nebraska, Bohl spent a decade as the head coach at North Dakota State, where he won three national titles before boosting the Wyoming program. NDSU had gone 2-8 the year before he arrived in Fargo. He’s spent seven years with the Cowboys and is 38-44 but has had three eight-win seasons. They had only had three winning seasons in the prior 14 years.

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Ain't happening. He's an even bigger hound than Miles. 

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