Mike Gundy solves college football's fake injury problems but not coronavirus or BLM

[LTtxfan 48928]

Mike Gundy Has Solved College Football’s Fake Injury Problem, If Anyone Will Listen

Tully Corcoran

One of the advantages you gain by running a hurry-up offense is that the defense not only doesn't have time to rest, but doesn't have time to substitute either, unless there is a timeout - or an injury.

And so in the last several years - here's USA Today writing about the issue in 2013 - the scourge of fake injuries has developed in college football. Dude goes down, writhes around in pain for a few seconds, gets helped off the field and then pretty much immediately, as if by miracle, he's been healed.

This maneuver has dang near caused fights between college football coaches, but until now nobody has come up with a very good idea for putting a stop to it.

Enter Mike Gundy.

"If you're injured, you can't come back in until there's a change of possession," Gundy said. "Then you can come back in. People say 'Well, you know, that's not fair to that kid.' They can do a study on this, if you're injured, even a mild injury, you're not coming back in in 6-8 plays. Everybody has to check you. You don't just come back in. The rule is going to be fair if they just implement it and it will stop people from laying down."

Gundy isn't just thinking out loud here. He made this suggestion to the Big 12 coordinator of officials, who told him he needed to run it through the NCAA.

This is not a small issue, either. It has become a regular part of college football games, and nothing about that is good.

"We played a team this year where (a player) came off three times and they didn't even tend to him," Gundy said Monday. "Nobody even walked over. And it was on video. We got it on video, on our video. It was a wide enough shot to where they went out and got him, he walked off and then he went over and stood by their coaches and then they left. They didn't even tend to him and we got it on video."

This is a hacky and desperate defensive maneuver that a guy ought to be ashamed of. But since shame doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent in the sports world, we're going to have to write down yet another rule.

The obvious counterpoint to Gundy's idea is that this rule would encourage players to play through injuries. But, for one thing, they already do that. For another, if Gundy is correct, a player who is legitimately injured will be missing six or eight plays anyway, so the point is moot, or close to it.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/mike-gundy-has-solved-college-football’s-fake-injury-problem-if-anyone-will-listen/ar-BBPUPwq

[Bigbend1812 12877]

Do it. 

[PittsburghTiger 6136]

Sounds good to me.

[TankedBevo 2482]

Can't argue with that.

[Gene Parmesan 3992]

Makes so much sense, so therefore it'll never happen.

 

[Lat22 3990]

Should be easy enough to implement.

[conVINCEd 21468]

Personally, I think we’ve passed enough rules that favor the offense in the last 10 years.

[miguelito 11204]

Who keeps track of that during the game?  One of the fine Big 12 officials?

[TrashMaster G 17379]

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

Personally, I think we’ve passed enough rules that favor the offense in the last 10 years.

Is that a reason to ignore an obvious problem and not pursue a very logical, easy fix?

[ztejas 43244]

2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Personally, I think we’ve passed enough rules that favor the offense in the last 10 years.

It doesn't favor the offense it favors the spectators. 

OU pulled this horseshit the entire 2nd half in the Cotton Bowl. I'm not putting the Horns up and clapping for someone that's on the field 3 plays later. 

[Zavala 1384]

Great idea. But what about if your shoelace breaks?

Will players stop the game for quick one play equipment timeouts instead of fake injuries?

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

I like this guy, Gundy. 

[Tex Long 4326]

My suggestion - a few years back, when Nick Saban was crying about UTHU (Up-Tempo, Hurry-Up) and whining about all of the injuries being suffered by exhausted kids on his defenses - was along the same line.

Quote

A player suffering an injury causing play to be suspended (AKA injury time-out) may not return to play until a change of possession occurs; a player suffering a second such injury may not play again during that game and must leave the field. In the event that an injured player attempts to return, the Head Coach of his team will be charged with Unsportsmanlike Conduct and upon a second such occurrence the Head Coach will be disqualified and must leave the field.

Somebody needs to think of the children.

[conVINCEd 21468]

Just now, TrashMaster G said:

Is that a reason to ignore an obvious problem and not pursue a very logical, easy fix?

I think it will cause as many problems as it will fix.  Imagine we’re leading blowu 31-27 with 2:00 left.  They have the ball on their 20 yd line.  Sterns lights somebody up on the first play of the drive and gets up a little slowly.  Concerned trainers rush out on the field to assist him.  He’s fine.  Sorry, he hss to sit out the rest of the drive.  This fucking place would explode. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

4 minutes ago, miguelito said:

Who keeps track of that during the game?  One of the fine Big 12 officials?

Make the player ineligibile for the first half of the next game, like for targeting. No one will violate the rule unless it involves a senior in the last game. If that’s the case, strongly suggest a public apology from the offending player. 

[Chad 1728]

I'm with Gundy on this one. It's a good solution.

[Neonmoon 38127]

Perfect solution. Now we wait for something to be implemented....

 

[sushihorn 3233]

5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I think it will cause as many problems as it will fix.  Imagine we’re leading blowu 31-27 with 2:00 left.  They have the ball on their 20 yd line.  Sterns lights somebody up on the first play of the drive and gets up a little slowly.  Concerned trainers rush out on the field to assist him.  He’s fine.  Sorry, he hss to sit out the rest of the drive.  This fucking place would explode. 

Just like with injuries now, you can call a TO to let him stay in the game.  Problem solved - assuming the coach actually thinks it's important.

[LTtxfan 48928]

Maybe for player to return during that same series, the team has to forfeit a timeout...... 

Edit.... Sushihorn beat me to it....🤘

Edited November 21, 2018 by LTtxfan

[dcar00 14023]

does that go for the offensive player who gets hurt also?  Gundy might not like his QB having to sit out an entire possession. Gundy is an offensive guy.  of course this would be his suggestion.

[conVINCEd 21468]

Also, I would assume this has to apply to the offense as well, right?  We can’t be taking defenders off the field for getting “hurt” and just let the offensive guys come and go as they please, can we?  It has good intent, but I don’t support anything that further favors the offense.

[Rimbo 25752]

3 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Make the player ineligibile for the first half of the next game, like for targeting. No one will violate the rule unless it involves a senior in the last game. If that’s the case, strongly suggest a public apology from the offending player. 

You don't want to make it too strong of a rule, so that potentially injured players can feel comfortable coming off the field.

I like r/cfb's suggested modification to Gundy's rule: The player must remain off the field until the next change of possession or timeout. So anything that would've otherwise slowed the offense down anyway would allow the player to return.

[sushihorn 3233]

1 minute ago, LTtxfan said:

Maybe for player to return during that same series, the team has to forfeit a timeout...... 

 

Edit.... Sushihorn beat me to it....🤘

Two posts at the same time.

If I had a million bucks I bet I could hook that up.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

4 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I think it will cause as many problems as it will fix.  Imagine we’re leading blowu 31-27 with 2:00 left.  They have the ball on their 20 yd line.  Sterns lights somebody up on the first play of the drive and gets up a little slowly.  Concerned trainers rush out on the field to assist him.  He’s fine.  Sorry, he hss to sit out the rest of the drive.  This fucking place would explode. 

Hed have to come off the field under the current rules. Trainers don’t rush onto the field without being instructed by a coach after an official stops action. If trainers are legitimately needed on the field, 95% of the time that injury requires attention on the sideline, and the player misses several plays. 

[dcar00 14023]

I would be for 4 plays and it applies to both O and D.  there would need to be a participation ref on both sidelines.

[TrashMaster G 17379]

13 minutes ago, Zavala said:

Great idea. But what about if your shoelace breaks?

Will players stop the game for quick one play equipment timeouts instead of fake injuries?

Anybody who leaves the field on his own can come back any time, just like now.  It would have to be a really severe shoelace break to need assistance off the field.

11 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I think it will cause as many problems as it will fix.  Imagine we’re leading blowu 31-27 with 2:00 left.  They have the ball on their 20 yd line.  Sterns lights somebody up on the first play of the drive and gets up a little slowly.  Concerned trainers rush out on the field to assist him.  He’s fine.  Sorry, he hss to sit out the rest of the drive.  This fucking place would explode. 

Clearly, the trainers would be instructed to wait a beat before charging out.  Players would probably have a signal to say they are ok.

5 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Just like with injuries now, you can call a TO to let him stay in the game.  Problem solved - assuming the coach actually thinks it's important.

This.

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

does that go for the offensive player who gets hurt also?  Gundy might not like his QB having to sit out an entire possession. Gundy is an offensive guy.  of course this would be his suggestion.

Yes, the rule would apply to all players.  Why not?

Edited November 21, 2018 by TrashMaster G

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

What’s to keep coaches from sending in a scrub for one play to flop?

[Gene Parmesan 3992]

Just now, Judge Roybeanbag said:

What’s to keep coaches from sending in a scrub for one play to flop?

Nothing if they can get him substituted in fast enough to not incur a penalty or be horribly out of position which is the reason for the flop in the first place.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

2 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

You don't want to make it too strong of a rule, so that potentially injured players can feel comfortable coming off the field.

I like r/cfb's suggested modification to Gundy's rule: The player must remain off the field until the next change of possession or timeout. So anything that would've otherwise slowed the offense down anyway would allow the player to return.

I thought the change of possession was what Gundy suggested. I could live with the  time out compromise, but I’d still want a stiffer penalty for violating either of those rules. I was only speaking of the penalty for players who violate the rules so no ref has to keep track of it. 

[GreenspointTexas 9556]

Tech did this against us 2 weeks ago on our final offensive drive

[sushihorn 3233]

2 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

What’s to keep coaches from sending in a scrub for one play to flop?

I could happen.  But the entire point of no huddle is to PREVENT substitutions so I don't think it would really undermine the intent of the rule.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

7 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Just like with injuries now, you can call a TO to let him stay in the game.  Problem solved - assuming the coach actually thinks it's important.

What if the team is out of timeouts?

[dcar00 14023]

1 minute ago, TrashMaster G said:

Anybody who leaves the field on his own can come back any time, just like now.  It would have to be a really sever shoelace break to need assistance off the field.

Clearly, the trainers would be instructed to wait a beat before charging out.  Players would probably have a signal to say they are ok.

This.

Yes, the rule would apply to all players.  Why not?

is that what Gundy is saying?  applies to O and D?  I think 4 plays is enough of a deterrent.  guys on the DL might fake  due to them being rotated more often than others.

[LTtxfan 48928]

Guess the issue is whether the "fake" injury slows down a hurry-up offense, so  it may be ok for this rule to only affect the defense.....

But..... What are the rules in last 2 minutes of a half when an offensive player gets hurt??  Is a fake injury a tactic that Offenses can use to stop the clock??

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

Just now, ImissWallyPryor said:

What if the team is out of timeouts?

I was told there would be no maths.  

[Gene Parmesan 3992]

6 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

does that go for the offensive player who gets hurt also?  Gundy might not like his QB having to sit out an entire possession. Gundy is an offensive guy.  of course this would be his suggestion.

Sure why not.  Offensive players don't fake injuries since their side of the ball controls the pace already.  So chances are they are sitting out multiple plays regardless.  You'd only be talking about a handful of meaningful situations a year for an offensive players as opposed to every close HUNH game for defensive players.

[TrashMaster G 17379]

Just now, dcar00 said:

is that what Gundy is saying?  applies to O and D?  I think 4 plays is enough of a deterrent.  guys on the DL might fake  due to them being rotated more often than others.

I don't know the details of Gundy's suggestion, but it makes sense.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

4 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

What’s to keep coaches from sending in a scrub for one play to flop?

The likelihood that the scrub will get burned for a big play. It’s hard to substitute a defensive player for just one play against hurry-up offences. 

[LongestHorn 759]

Sit them for the first half of the possession.  Compromise.

[dcar00 14023]

I don't like any rule like this that doesn't apply to the O as well.  you can't discern intent in this kind of situation. The O already has enough advantage.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

I don't like any rule like this that doesn't apply to the O as well.  you can't discern intent in this kind of situation. The O already has enough advantage.

Then make it apply to everyone...or only to Texas because this is the Big 12. 

[dcar00 14023]

3 minutes ago, LongestHorn said:

Sit them for the first half of the possession.  Compromise.

huh?

[dcar00 14023]

Just now, ImissWallyPryor said:

Then make it apply to everyone...or only to Texas because this is the Big 12. 

horns up after a tackle..to the bench for you.

[DejaVu 39]

12 minutes ago, LongestHorn said:

Sit them for the first half of the possession.  Compromise.

Huh? How does anybody know what “half” of a possession is until it ends? 

[conVINCEd 21468]

12 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Guess the issue is whether the "fake" injury slows down a hurry-up offense, so  it may be ok for this rule to only affect the defense....

IMO, that’s not ok.  Football is barrelling down the road toward a game in which defense is an afterthought.  I’m quite sure most offensive-minded coaches would love this rule.  Texas has shown over the years that we are one of the few schools in this pitiful excuse of a conference that is capable of fielding an elite defense when we have our shit together.  Any further neutering of that side of the ball is a negative for us IMO.

[taybo20 2815]

WVU does this a lot. I saw it against us, and I saw it against the pokes. 

[Gene Parmesan 3992]

Just now, taybo20 said:

WVU does this a lot. I saw it against us, and I saw it against the pokes. 

I'm pretty sure you can find plenty of times an OSU has done it as well. 

[Hagbard Celine 10734]

41 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

What’s to keep coaches from sending in a scrub for one play to flop?

i knew someone would have this.  score one for bag.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

7 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

i knew someone would have this.  score one for bag.

That one has been debunked. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11796]

7 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

i knew someone would have this.  score one for bag.

Well there are a lot of arguments against it as outlined above, but the offense is going to be passing in a hurry up so after a first down you’d have time to get a third string tackle in there.  Not likely to give up a big play.