Adrian Peterson admits he still hits his son with a belt

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DejaVu said:

Peterson busted his kid’s scrotum. If that happens to you in a disagreement at a bar, you’re pressing charges, right? 

That was a beating, not “punishment.” 

I don't endorse what Peterson did before he was punished..  

 

Are you saying it happened again?  Are you saying everyone who spanks does what AD did?

 

Sounds like it, even though i clearly said it shouldn't be administered in anger in my initial post.

Edited November 22, 2018 by slorch

[DejaVu 39]

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

It is not a red herring with regard to discussing our society as a whole.

It absolutely is. This topic is not a philosophical argument about society as a whole, and whether corporal punishment should or should not be used has little to no relevance about whether everything is “permissible.” 

Your argument in that post contained both a red herring and a slippery slope. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by DejaVu

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DejaVu said:

It absolutely is. This topic is not a philosophical argument about society as a whole, and whether corporal punishment should or should not be used has little to no relevance about whether everything is “permissible.” 

so the topic is AD sucks?

 

ok.  Could probably agree there.

 

Other posters opined on corporal punishment.  I commented on the subject at hand.

[Blotto 23434]

7 hours ago, Jersey Man10 said:

I got hit with the belt when I was younger but I'm Mexican so ...

Remember that pain in a few years when you're beating on your old man for talking shit about your favorite soccer club. 

[DejaVu 39]

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

Other posters opined on corporal punishment.  I commented on the subject at hand.

I’m not arguing whether corporal punishment is right or wrong. The topic is Peterson. He lost my faith in his discretion when he injured his son’s genitals. 

I would gather that you’re also not hitting a kid with a belt at 6’1, 220 pounds of rock hard muscle. I’m 5’1” and 110 pounds soaking wet. There’s a difference in the type of blows that an asshole like Peterson can deliver.

[Monster 219]

5 minutes ago, slorch said:

It is not a red herring with regard to discussing our society as a whole.  The increasingly pervasive mentality of permissiveness is fucking us up.

To think everyone in 'society' will react the same way to physical punishment is simple-minded.   Just like it'd be simple-minded for me to think that giving kids a lot of love and attention during their developmental years, and patiently explaining how and why their mistakes are harmful, will magically turn 100% of children into productive, happy adults.    

My question is this--if spanking is such a great disciplinary tool, why would a parent ever stop spanking his/her kids?  Why not keep spanking them as young adults?  Why don't bosses spank their employees when they fuck up at their jobs?  

   

[DejaVu 39]

1 minute ago, Monster said:

Why don't bosses spank their employees when they fuck up at their jobs?  

I just spit my coffee. Thanks for the laugh. I’m definitely in favor of this. 

[Guest]

There are definitely adults who still need it.

 

But prisons and shit...

Edited November 22, 2018 by slorch

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

35 minutes ago, Monster said:

This is false.   You do realize there are 'forms of discipline' that don't involve physically striking a someone, right?   

But if beating your kids is the only way you know how to teach a lesson, then hammer away!   And when your kids become adults and move out and stop returning your phone calls, and never come to visit, you can just pour another glass of whiskey and mutter about ingratitude until you pass out every night.      I would suggest you arrange a cleaning service once a week, or some other weekly visitation, because if you don't, and you do inevitably die embittered and alone--it's going to be two or three weeks before anybody finds your rotting corpse on the couch.    

Maybe you just don’t understand logic. One parents grounding can turn into never letting them leave the house. Timeout can turn into being locked in a closet for days or weeks at a time. These stories are real and are examples of punishment, which you may deem appropriate, being taken to abusive extremes. You don’t think these children felt the same way about their parents as one who was physically abused?

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

5 hours ago, Steel Shank said:

I wonder if my overly large, highly impressive and religiously worshipped nutsack is due to the several spankings I received as a child?

You may be on to something here.

[SilasCoade 2620]

32 minutes ago, slorch said:

It is not a red herring with regard to discussing our society as a whole.  The increasingly pervasive mentality of permissiveness is fucking us up.

You're an idiot. Not spanking does not equal permissiveness. Spanking is for meatheads.

[South Austin 52144]

He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the table. Just say, "Choose."

[Ghost of Shag 2581]

49 minutes ago, Monster said:

This is false.   You do realize there are 'forms of discipline' that don't involve physically striking a someone, right?   

But if beating your kids is the only way you know how to teach a lesson, then hammer away!   And when your kids become adults and move out and stop returning your phone calls, and never come to visit, you can just pour another glass of whiskey and mutter about ingratitude until you pass out every night.      I would suggest you arrange a cleaning service once a week, or some other weekly visitation, because if you don't, and you do inevitably die embittered and alone--it's going to be two or three weeks before anybody finds your rotting corpse on the couch.    

Lulz.

Love how you associated spankings with “beatings,” drunkenness, abandonment, and isolation all in the same post.

Were you a drama major?

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

2 minutes ago, South Austin said:

He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the table. Just say, "Choose."

Just pick up the wrench and go change the oil in the truck, right?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Llogg said:

You're an idiot.

No...you are.

 

LOlz.  

Edited November 22, 2018 by slorch

[Newy25 7638]

You should never spank your child. If they continue to have issues, we will diagnose them with ADD and have a cocktail of medicine they need to take for life. 

Seriously though, most studies I have read say spanking can be very useful but you have to take the mad, emotional element out. It has to be administered later when you are not upset so the child clearly knows it is a punishment for said infraction and not you as the parent just being upset. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Newy25

[Richard Kimball 1492]

I have two basic premises. Spanking, with an open hand, one or two swats, not hard enough to leave a mark, only for deliberate disobedience (not mistakes, like spilling orange juice) is not child abuse. I spanked my kids a few times, and regret each one, though. 

My second premise is Adrian Peterson has got to be one of the five dumbest SOBs that ever walked the face of this earth. He's got one dead kid, and has been cited for child abuse. He probably has kids he doesn't know about, besides the ones he does know about. He needs to STFU about parenting. . 

[SilasCoade 2620]

29 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

You should never spank your child. If they continue to have issues, we will diagnose them with ADD and have a cocktail of medicine they need to take for life. 

Seriously though, most studies I have read say spanking can be very useful but you have to take the mad, emotional element out. It has to be administered later when you are not upset so the child clearly knows it is a punishment for said infraction and not you as the parent just being upset. 

Please post these mythical studies

[Slacks 6791]

I'm dropping him off my fantasy team. Fuck that piece of crap

Thank you for reminding me to set my lineup

[troph 24563]

Gets tougher when they aren't half your size and are big enough to defend themselves from a beating, I'd guess. Most effective discipline my parents ever doled out was when i stole a candy bar from a convenience store.  I wasn't allowed to play basketball on the school team for 2 weeks.  Longest two weeks of my preteen life.    Never stole another candy bar.     Try taking away privileges.   That's what you do when they're older and you can't manhandle them anymore, right?

 

 

This right here - though I’m against corporal punishment period. It take a ton of effort to craft precise discipline strategies to teach and train kids. My 8th grader engaged in some choice behaviors recently. Decided that moving him to a flip phone, no sleep overs and no unsupervised hang outs was the way to go. We are in family counseling and we’ve talked it out, I’ve had to hold firm and we’ve also reconnected. Having my 13 year old son come to me crying because of the stress peer pressure put him under and hearing him tell me about it was something I’ll cherish and protect. That trust and looking to me for help knowing there would be consequences means everything to me. Hitting him won’t produce that trust. I was able to instead embrace and love on him and tell him it’s going to be okay that we would make it through it all together. Our kids don’t need to be hit to learn how to be decent humans.

 

[Deej 76568]

Flip phone may be more cruel than spanking. Now his peers are probably ridiculing him.

[Armybrat 40744]

There’s a difference  between spanking to discipline a child who is loved versus beating a kid when the parent is angry & frustrated (or has deep seated emotional problems themselves).

My dad rarely used physical punishment, and when he did it was just a swift boot in the butt with the side of his foot. We didn’t mess with the Colonel.

Mom on the other hand used a knitting needle that she would flick at the back of our legs. Stung like hell but left no welts. If one of us boys fucked up, all she needed to turn us into a blubbering pile of jello was to say, “go get my knitting needle”. Even my oldest brother who was 6’2” in 8th grade.  😃

All three of us made it to this point without going to prison, and we miss mom & dad intensely.

edited to add: AP is a dumbass - still punishing himself for choosing the wrong school.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Armybrat

[formermav43 4599]

2 hours ago, Monster said:

This is false.   You do realize there are 'forms of discipline' that don't involve physically striking a someone, right?   

But if beating your kids is the only way you know how to teach a lesson, then hammer away!   And when your kids become adults and move out and stop returning your phone calls, and never come to visit, you can just pour another glass of whiskey and mutter about ingratitude until you pass out every night.      I would suggest you arrange a cleaning service once a week, or some other weekly visitation, because if you don't, and you do inevitably die embittered and alone--it's going to be two or three weeks before anybody finds your rotting corpse on the couch.    

Ok, tough guy. I wasn’t arguing for spanking, but against your crappy argument. Which was that you learned:

1) To avoid your father because he might [insert punishment here].

2) Lie, so you didn’t get [insert punishment here].

The “logic” of your argument would extend to any form of punishment at all. 

You can make a good argument against spanking. This is not one.

[mr.goodkat 464]

1 hour ago, Monster said:

 

My question is this--if spanking is such a great disciplinary tool, why would a parent ever stop spanking his/her kids?  Why not keep spanking them as young adults?  Why don't bosses spank their employees when they fuck up at their jobs?  

   

corporal punishment is still used in 19 states at the high school level . like it or not it is part of our culture . we can argue its effectiveness all we want but its there and will always be there .  ou sucks and fuck ap 

Edited November 22, 2018 by mr.goodkat
obligatory

[Honeysucklerose 958]

There are some freaking pansies on this site.

[ClubWhatever 12087]

I just know if you were spanked it's hard not to spank.  The intensity may get diluted as you move down the generations.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Dude has kids with over 5 different women, is an absentee father to most of them, and he wants this kid to take his discipline and moral guidance seriously. Lol. 

He met his 2 yr old for the first time at the hospital right before the kids funeral.

[SilasCoade 2620]

11 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

I just know if you were spanked it's hard not to spank.  The intensity may get diluted as you move down the generations.

 

20 minutes ago, mr.goodkat said:

corporal punishment is still used in 19 states at the high school level . like it or not it is part of our culture . we can argue its effectiveness all we want but its there and will always be there .  ou sucks and fuck ap 

 

It's not always going to be there if people decide not to do it anymore. It's not hard. Just don't lay hands on kids. It's really as easy as not raping women, which also used to be "part of our culture" if you go back far enough. Behavioral norms evolve.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

7 minutes ago, Llogg said:

 Behavioral norms evolve.

Not always in a good way.

[troph 24563]

Ok, tough guy. I wasn’t arguing for spanking, but against your crappy argument. Which was that you learned:

1) To avoid your father because he might [insert punishment here].

2) Lie, so you didn’t get [insert punishment here].

The “logic” of your argument would extend to any form of punishment at all. 

You can make a good argument against spanking. This is not one.

Actually the unconscious mind of a youth craves boundaries and consequences but I highly doubt they will want to be hit.

 

We live in a world where creationism is presented in text books, where climate change can still be considered a hoax, where a President can out and out lie with little consequence, where what one believes carries as much weight as truth.

 

The research is voluminous and it’s clear corporal punishment isn’t good for kids. A swat here and there on a diaper for a toddler running into the street ain’t gonna harm the kid but it’s not necessary and it shouldn’t be part of any parent’s discipline regime. The fact it can even still be debated when research is crystal clear is an indictment of our views of research and science more than anything.

[ImissWallyPryor 9045]

3 hours ago, slorch said:

If you don't want to spank your kid...then don't.

LOLz at the folks sharing how tough their huge ass dad was with a belt. I grew up with many other kids who were in single parent homes where the moms doled out the discipline.  Pissed off moms ain't no joke, although I fundamentally disagree with spankings before the parents coll off to administer them. My mom happened to be 5'5" and was hard as fuck, LOL.  She was every bit as scary, if not more so than any tough guy I ever knew.  My friends' moms( and dads if they were there) all had instant permission to bust my ass if I was fucking up at their house. That's just the way things were.

I spanked both of my boys. I expect that they will spank their kids.  It is not abuse when done properly.  i do feel waaaaaay too many kids in our society are not receiving proper instruction/ accountability/ corrective action from their parents.  Bring this discussion up with anyone who works in elementary education.  It's unbelievable what they have to tolerate in the schools from these fuckups, and I am speaking of the parents not the kids.  By high school, it's a much tougher row to hoe...

This mentality in our society that everything is permissible and there should be no boundaries for my child is killing us.

 

 

3 hours ago, Monster said:

Gets tougher when they aren't half your size and are big enough to defend themselves from a beating, I'd guess.

Most effective discipline my parents ever doled out was when i stole a candy bar from a convenience store.  I wasn't allowed to play basketball on the school team for 2 weeks.  Longest two weeks of my preteen life.    Never stole another candy bar.     Try taking away privileges.   That's what you do when they're older and you can't manhandle them anymore, right?

I gave +rep to both of these because neither one advocated for pampering their little snow flakes.  Discipline is effective regardless as long as it’s administered appropriately and consistently  

 

[SilasCoade 2620]

1 hour ago, Casual Encounter said:

Not always in a good way.

This is not one of those cases as supported by objective evidence.

[Chrispy 132]

Honesty is not always the best policy AP, you moron. 

I saw one of these never spankers at the grocery store just last week; standing there trying to reason with her turbulent young child as he tore up the magazines at the checkout line and threw them on the floor, it was pitiful. 

 

[JerryHubbard 282]

12 hours ago, hornian said:

I’m gonna side with the American Academy of Pediatrics versus any study that says there are health and developmental benefits for corporal punishment. 

But then, I like fact-based science, not “back in my day” anecdotal evidence. So I may be biased. 

As a physician that has read thousands of studies over the years that contradict each other, I laugh at your definition of “fact-based science”.

I am not in any way advocating physical discipline measures. Just pointing out that all studies, especially retrospective behavioral outcome studies, should be read with a healthy dose of skepticism.

[Stu 25]

1 hour ago, Llogg said:

 

 

It's not always going to be there if people decide not to do it anymore. It's not hard. Just don't lay hands on kids. It's really as easy as not raping women, which also used to be "part of our culture" if you go back far enough. Behavioral norms evolve.

Spanking and raping.. totally the same..  

[SilasCoade 2620]

11 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

Honesty is not always the best policy AP, you moron. 

I saw one of these never spankers at the grocery store just last week; standing there trying to reason with her turbulent young child as he tore up the magazines at the checkout line and threw them on the floor, it was pitiful. 

 

There's a difference between not spanking and not allowing that kind of shit.

[SilasCoade 2620]

Just now, Stu said:

Spanking and raping.. totally the same..  

In terms of how easy they are not to do, yes.

[Newy25 7638]

2 hours ago, Llogg said:

 

 

It's not always going to be there if people decide not to do it anymore. It's not hard. Just don't lay hands on kids. It's really as easy as not raping women, which also used to be "part of our culture" if you go back far enough. Behavioral norms evolve.

The shark. You have jumped it. 

[ClubWhatever 12087]

51 minutes ago, Llogg said:

In terms of how easy they are not to do, yes.

This seems wrong.  

[Stella Link 534]

[SubliminalHorn 6674]

13 hours ago, Casual Encounter said:

The problem is that studies can be found to support both sides of the argument and people will always go to the source which supports their opinion. 

Discipline of all forms can become abuse.

I would like to know what studies support spanking. I don’t know for sure, but I have doubts they exist. Spanking causes real trauma for children developmentally. 

[troph 24563]

I would like to know what studies support spanking. I don’t know for sure, but I have doubts they exist. Spanking causes real trauma for children developmentally. 

The same ones that support conversion therapy for the rainbow club, duh.

[troph 24563]

I’m gonna reverse course, I do like a good firm slap on the ass while I’m bending over to load the dishwasher.

[Armybrat 40744]

I am so PTSD traumatized from my childhood that I’ve never been able to take up knitting.

[SDG 3319]

27 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

I would like to know what studies support spanking. I don’t know for sure, but I have doubts they exist. Spanking causes real trauma for children developmentally. 

I got spanked once as a child.  I was so traumatized I learned to listen to authority and it never happened again.  

[GopherRock 1765]

At some point, he's going to try that stunt with one of his kids that is old enough to return the favor. 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

40 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

I would like to know what studies support spanking. I don’t know for sure, but I have doubts they exist. Spanking causes real trauma for children developmentally. 

I could quote you some studies but they’d likely be considered ancient history to you. They may not even be on the INTERNET. You know 20 years or more. We’ve gotten som much smarter since then...

[SilasCoade 2620]

38 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

I could quote you some studies but they’d likely be considered ancient history to you. They may not even be on the INTERNET. You know 20 years or more. We’ve gotten som much smarter since then...

Go ahead and quote them. I'm happy to track them down and learn if my views are wrong. But I'm fairly certain these studies that show spanking is beneficial do not exist. The best you might hope for is a neutral effect.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13010]

11 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Go ahead and quote them. I'm happy to track them down and learn if my views are wrong. But I'm fairly certain these studies that show spanking is beneficial do not exist. The best you might hope for is a neutral effect.

“Dr. Robert Larzelere of the University of Nebraska Medical Center reviewed 38 studies and found that in children under 7, nonabusive spanking produced no harmful effects and reduced misbehavior when used as a backup for milder discipline techniques like reasoning or timeouts.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/25/us/findings-give-some-support-to-advocates-of-spanking.html

The article is a good discussion. People will use what they know works and I’m not one to judge them for their choice as long as it’s not extreme. I will support spanking over those who choose not to discipline their children because I believe the outcome is much worse.

Truth is, your mind is made up, just like everyone else on this board. Not every discipline works for every event or child. Any discipline can escalate into abuse. Therefore, holding a hard line isn’t warranted unless it is abuse.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Casual Encounter
I’m not going to track down all the studies. Your mind is made up.

[SilasCoade 2620]

My mind's open, I just have a high index of suspicion. I assume that article is referencing this: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1026473020315. Reading the available portion of the methods I would argue that the inclusion criteria were deliberately formulated to predispose in favor of a particular conclusion. For one, it depends upon an arbitrary distinction between acceptable spanking and abusive behavior. I'm not suggesting there isn't a line between the two. I'm suggesting that the line is drawn arbitrarily by everyone to suit their own interests.

BTW, citing newspaper articles is inadequate for an argument of this sort. Even that article points out that the evidence suggests spanking over the age of 6 more than 2-3 times per week is detrimental.

Quote

children older than 6 did show detrimental effects when spanking was used too often, for example, three or more times a week

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5771997/

That is a well designed study that finds any spanking before the age of 5 predicted negative developmental characteristics at age 6 and 8. If you want to pick that article apart I would offer that rather than dividing the spanked group according to how recently they had been spanked, they should have used a spanking frequency range to subdivide the group to establish whether more spanking had more impact.