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Game 6: Texas vs. Michigan State, 5:30 PM, Fox

Machinator

By Machinator
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dcar00

dcar00 14154

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1 minute ago, Texas25 said:

You must not have watched much Shaka Smart basketball. We played 60 minutes of good basketball at this tournament against 2 pretty good teams. We just watched the 2018 version of the Duke game last year.

exactly.  better than getting your brains beat in but he hasn't done it beyond pre conference which is really all that matters.  hope this year he brings it.

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Machinator

Machinator 32099

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No post presence, and Roach couldn't be the guy who gets whatever shot he wanted today like he was against UNC. Fast break opportunities dried up, and shots stopped falling with tired legs. Fatigue also led to our guards not being able to get to the rim like they could in the first half or yesterday.

Shaka has to continue to rotate liberally going forward.

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deech

deech 2272

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5 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

You must not have watched much Shaka Smart basketball. We played 60 minutes of good basketball at this tournament against 2 pretty good teams. We just watched the 2018 version of the Duke game last year.

I have watched plenty.  It may be just me, but I think the team is much better than prior years.  Hayes is young, but extremely talented.  He will grow this year and this team will improve.  Jones is a huge wildcard this year.  This team may end up 4th or 5th best in conference, but I think for the first time they may actually be the second or third most talented team in the conference.

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chase25

chase25 2048

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1 minute ago, Machinator said:

No post presence, and Roach couldn't be the guy who gets whatever shot he wanted today like he was against UNC. Fast break opportunities dried up, and shots stopped falling with tired legs. Fatigue also led to our guards not being able to get to the rim like they could in the first half or yesterday.

Shaka has to continue to rotate liberally going forward.

We also just got what often happens when we play some of these blue bloods which is get outclassed. Langford and Winston would both start for us and they simply showed why in the 2nd half.

Hard to use the excuse of tired legs when Michigan State played the late game last night. We just went cold which has happened all to often in the Shaka Smart era, couple that with the fact that we got mauled on the boards 42-23 and you get what we got tonight.

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Machinator

Machinator 32099

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1 minute ago, Texas25 said:

We also just got what often happens when we play some of these blue bloods which is get outclassed. Langford and Winston would both start for us and they simply showed why in the 2nd half.

Hard to use the excuse of tired legs when Michigan State played the late game last night. We just went cold which has happened all to often in the Shaka Smart era, couple that with the fact that we got mauled on the boards 42-23 and you get what we got tonight.

Michigan State didn't have to go balls-to-the-wall for 40 minutes like we did against UNC; it's part of why we wore down last season, we couldn't close games out.

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chase25

chase25 2048

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9 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Michigan State didn't have to go balls-to-the-wall for 40 minutes like we did against UNC; it's part of why we wore down last season, we couldn't close games out.

Just saying it had a lot less to do with tired legs and a lot more to do with the fact that we don't have anyone who on a consistent basis can just take over a game and take the pressure off the rest of the guys. Roach gave us a hell of a performance last night but we all know that isn't who he really is. He is closer to a 15/3/3 guy than he is a 32/7/6 guy.

We got a great individual performance last night that carried us to a win, tonight we regressed to the mean. Hate to be the guy that jumps off the cliff prematurely but I worry Shaka ends up being the guy that performs just well enough that it becomes hard to fire him. I've yet to see anything consistently that makes go "Wow, now this is a team that can compete for a conference title".

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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3 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Just saying it had a lot less to do with tired legs and a lot more to do with the fact that we don't have anyone who on a consistent basis can just take over a game and take the pressure off the rest of the guys. Roach gave us a hell of a performance last night but we all know that isn't who he really is. He is closer to a 15/3/3 guy than he is a 32/7/6 guy.

We got a great individual performance last night that carried us to a win, tonight we regressed to the mean. Hate to be the guy that jumps off the cliff prematurely but I worry Shaka ends up being the guy that performs just well enough that it becomes hard to fire him. I've yet to see anything consistently that makes go "Wow, now this is a team that can compete for a conference title".

That may be true, but 6 games into the season I'm going to hold out hope that you're wrong.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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Shaka has always used a super short bench at Texas. Every year we seem to have four guys who play 31-35 minutes every night. It just doesn't do us any favors. We already lack a bit of basketball talent and have streaky/inefficient shooters. Wearing everybody down only exacerbates these problems, and somewhat mitigates our athletic advantage.

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Machinator

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16 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Just saying it had a lot less to do with tired legs and a lot more to do with the fact that we don't have anyone who on a consistent basis can just take over a game and take the pressure off the rest of the guys. Roach gave us a hell of a performance last night but we all know that isn't who he really is. He is closer to a 15/3/3 guy than he is a 32/7/6 guy.

We got a great individual performance last night that carried us to a win, tonight we regressed to the mean. Hate to be the guy that jumps off the cliff prematurely but I worry Shaka ends up being the guy that performs just well enough that it becomes hard to fire him. I've yet to see anything consistently that makes go "Wow, now this is a team that can compete for a conference title".

Many of our losses have to do with roster composition, player rotation, and offensive game planning, and I'm sure we'll see our fair share of those this season.

This game, I really do think they just ran out of juice.

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RockyMountainHighHorn

RockyMountainHighHorn 890

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I didn’t get to see the game sadly nor have I scrolled through this thread yet but after seeing the box score, any moral victory for being up that much in the first half? Sure it must have been painful to watch it skip away fast but doing that, plus the UNC win, I think this was a very successful week. I’m excited to compare this to the previous pages. 

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Party_Taco

Party_Taco 3723

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Mich State made everything in the second half and played lock down D. Tough to stay with that.

I feel like this is being overlooked... a good number of their shots in the second half were just stupid. When those are going in, it’s hard to keep your cool and not feel pressured. Especially when it’s essentially the same squad on the floor the entire night...
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realgreggym

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4 hours ago, RockyMountainHighHorn said:

I didn’t get to see the game sadly nor have I scrolled through this thread yet but after seeing the box score, any moral victory for being up that much in the first half? Sure it must have been painful to watch it skip away fast but doing that, plus the UNC win, I think this was a very successful week. I’m excited to compare this to the previous pages. 

Rocky, moral victories are for aggys. Having said that, there is much to be excited about. The Michigan State guards may be the best combo we face this year. They made some amazing shots and you give them credit. I thought we battled really hard on the boards but the stats don't show that because we missed so many shots.

As we play more, the kids will learn that when the other team is making a run, stay calm and don't rush shots. Take that extra beat when taking a shot. There is no way to score 8 points on a single shot.

I do agree with Mac that they ran out of gas. Thats going to happen to young kids. They will learn from these 2 games and hopefully it will pay off during conference and in March..  . 

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RockyMountainHighHorn

RockyMountainHighHorn 890

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I agree on the moral victories, it was mostly tongue n cheek. Thank you for the writeup, that definitely gets some pos rep. Was surprised when i heard tired legs a few times during various scoreboard reports or analysis bits. Then I heard, from Seth Greenberg, it takes until first  semester break where teams get their legs and understand who they are. So you know, had to believe him. 

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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16 hours ago, Machinator said:

Michigan State didn't have to go balls-to-the-wall for 40 minutes like we did against UNC; it's part of why we wore down last season, we couldn't close games out.

How often do we really have to go 2 days in a row?  Preseason tourneys and B12 tourney are the only times I can think of. But if they are wearing down, I think overall conditioning might be a problem though. 18 to 22 year olds should be able to play basketball every single day without much fatigue. 

It didn't look like fatigue was an issue to me though. Our guys were still hustling hard. They just couldn't hit shit. I think MSU just got in their heads. They were nails in the second half at defending the drive, and we couldn't hit a midrange jumper or 3 pointer to keep them honest. 

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realgreggym

realgreggym 835

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9 hours ago, RockyMountainHighHorn said:

I agree on the moral victories, it was mostly tongue n cheek. Thank you for the writeup, that definitely gets some pos rep. Was surprised when i heard tired legs a few times during various scoreboard reports or analysis bits. Then I heard, from Seth Greenberg, it takes until first  semester break where teams get their legs and understand who they are. So you know, had to believe him. 

Rocky, when you're in high school and are a D1 prospect, with a few exceptions, you're probably the best athlete on the court. You may only have to play say at 70% to be successful in getting your points, rebounds, etc. Now you step up to the next level and everyone is as talented as you,, stronger than you and more experienced than you. Now you have to give 100% and for longer periods of time. If you have to play too many minutes, by February, your legs are gone so its important to keep an eye on a young kids playing time.  Its like training for your first marathon. In the early stages, you're going to be sore until your legs start to adjust to the increased level of training.  

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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20 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

Let’s face it, MSU is better than us and they should be. Our guard play has really improved, we can handle an off night from our best guys against most competition. I like the makeup of this roster especially when you pair it with next years bigs. 

No we can't. Our best guys are erratic and inconsistent, and none of them are particularly great shooters to begin with. Our one really good performance come against a school and coach who we historically own because they play right into our strengths every time, and we've struggled for long stretches of every single game this year, a Shaka Smart trademark at this point.. Starting in January it's precisely the opposite that's true- most teams on our schedule will take it to us if our best players have an off night, particularly considering that a merely average night already means poor-mediocre offense/shooting to begin with. So many people talking about this team lately like we have a stockpile of talent and depth when in reality have little depth and almost no all-conference talent. The idea that we can have an off night and still just handle everyone on our schedule is really puzzling.

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Revolution512

Revolution512 1487

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Long and Ramey are good enough to handle Coleman having an off night. We have depth to handle Roach having an off night. It’s not hard to understand but I’ll admit it takes a few brain cells.

Against elite teams, obviously not. Last year Roach and Coleman were all we had in the backcourt. That’s not the case this season.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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you can't make a single post without being insulting can you? that on top of how stupid your posts are is such a terrible combination.where does our current team rank at Texas over the last 20 years? Like 14th best? No true shooters, our starting center is incredibly raw, unskilled and foul prone, our team is 1-4 ATS, our head coach is barely above .500 in his career here, and we play in the toughest conference in America (18 games), but according to you we can just handle most teams even when our best players have off nights. and you have the gall to insult someone else's intelligence. stupid. 

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14668

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3 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

Let’s face it, MSU is better than us and they should be. Our guard play has really improved, we can handle an off night from our best guys against most competition. I like the makeup of this roster especially when you pair it with next years bigs. 

lulz, no Texas can not. It took a career game from Roach for Texas to beat UNC. Had Roach scored his season average Texas loses by double digits.

Texas forced 41 TO's and was an aggregate -7 in this tournament. The guards have to hit shots for this team to do anything worst a shit this season.

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UTDD

UTDD 362

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Texas needed an almost historic performance to hang with UNC and didn't get that when they lost to MSU.  I think the team is what it is -- talented enough to hang with some Top 10 teams with amazing play but not talented enough to hang with these teams being just ok.  I think that's realistic and you hope just the players develop well over the year to have more consistently good to great performances versus average to bad ones.  

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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3 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

Texas has already survived an off night from Coleman against a likely tourney team in Arkansas so yes, the shit can be done. 

Ramey and Long can play. 

"the shit can be done" you say, using a November win over a likely bubble team as your proof. sounds like you need a reminder of what exactly "the shit" is. you said and i quote, "we can handle an off night from our best guys against most competition." "Our best guys" are Roach, Coleman, and Hayes, and if two or more of them are having a *bad* night every time out then we will go 4-14 in conference play. The number of teams in America who can beat "most competition" when their best players are off is small, and we are nowhere near that group. Even a team as good as Nevada can't afford to have their best players having off nights against any decent competition, forget about a team like Texas with as many flaws and holes as we have. We don't shoot the ball well, we haven't been very well coached, three of our starting five would be absolute bit players on any top 15-20 team...just no. no dude. the shit cannot be done. nobody agrees with you, know when to move on.

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realgreggym

realgreggym 835

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6 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

just shut the fuck up you goddamn moron. you said some retarded shit and literally nobody agrees with you. fucking christ, stop posting. all you do is give one retarded opinion after another while incessantly insulting others and talking shit. just stop talking.

If this is the standard you're using. You need to be gone asap.  

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Revolution512

Revolution512 1487

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16 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

just shut the fuck up you goddamn moron. you said some retarded shit and literally nobody agrees with you. fucking christ, stop posting. all you do is give one retarded opinion after another while incessantly insulting others and talking shit. just stop talking.

I insult one person and he’s been the dumbest person on any Texas board for years.

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Thatguy

Thatguy 8679

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What is happening here? Geezus fellas!!

 

  The problem with Texas is that we can't keep players long enough for the skills that they need to set in. It goes like this. Players come in raw and play with their hair on fire their freshman year. Somewhere along the way they hit the freshman wall. Legs can't handle the load. Scouting reports catch up to them. That's when the real work begins. You start to work on your shortcomings and somewhere between their and your junior year the light kicks on and you become really good. That is te normal life cycle for a collegiate athlete. Problem is Texas can never keep kids long enough for the cocoon to open. Or should I say kids worth a shit. That is why we always look so raw and uncoached. It was the same way under Barnes.

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SA-KC_Horn

SA-KC_Horn 1295

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36 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Rick consistently ran some of the best offenses is college basketball and his teams were known for their rebounding. Might you have been asleep during that time?

Trust me, I was wide awake and I know we had some good players that scored for Rick, but those same players were a part of those lapses and scoring droughts in those big games. We can't sit back and say that Shaka led team only had bad scoring droughts in the last 15 yrs.

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VinyVango

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Mich St made a key defensive adjustment at half (aggressively hedging the screen) that worked well and we didn't have a plan "B" other than jacking up the 3's.  We were getting scorched by their three point shooters and playing a zone allowed for some easy open looks.  Roach and Coleman seemed tired/frustrated after the half and tried to long range shoot their way out of the funk moreso than drive the paint.  DO rarely rolled to the basket when his defender cheated up to aggressively hedge the dribbler.

Sims has definitely played himself to a non-starter role for the next few games.  His strength is supposed to be defense and rebounding and he's letting himself get caught too far under the basket or out of position to get those jobs done.  I like him as a fresh, energetic presence off the bench.

Coleman needs to quit trying to do too much.  Roach can be great, but not taking 10 three-pointers a game.  It's a win for the other team when he falls in love with jacking up the long shots.

I am cautiously optimistic about the team so far after the first few games, but they can't fall in love with the long ball and slip back into the standing around on offense bad habits. 

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Catdaddyhorn

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10 hours ago, VinyVango said:

Mich St made a key defensive adjustment at half (aggressively hedging the screen) that worked well and we didn't have a plan "B" other than jacking up the 3's.  We were getting scorched by their three point shooters and playing a zone allowed for some easy open looks.  Roach and Coleman seemed tired/frustrated after the half and tried to long range shoot their way out of the funk moreso than drive the paint.  DO rarely rolled to the basket when his defender cheated up to aggressively hedge the dribbler.

Sims has definitely played himself to a non-starter role for the next few games.  His strength is supposed to be defense and rebounding and he's letting himself get caught too far under the basket or out of position to get those jobs done.  I like him as a fresh, energetic presence off the bench.

Coleman needs to quit trying to do too much.  Roach can be great, but not taking 10 three-pointers a game.  It's a win for the other team when he falls in love with jacking up the long shots.

I am cautiously optimistic about the team so far after the first few games, but they can't fall in love with the long ball and slip back into the standing around on offense bad habits. 

We played zone for exactly one defensive possession the entire game.  And DO hasn't made a hard roll to the basket even once the entire year.  

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
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