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bolverk

bolverk 30233

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

The more you know.

Yeah, it's usually attached to the underside of the trunk hatch so that when you open it up, it provides a warning. They raise up the trunk to show the sign while the hazard lights are on. If I remember correctly, it looks like this but for whatever reason I remember them being outlined in orange instead of red.

577px-France_road_sign_A14.svg.png

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26853

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, workswithseed said:

That's a weird law. you have to have fluorescent jacket at all times? What happens if you forgot it one day?

You don't have to have a fluorescent jacket, you get to have a fluorescent jacket. Eet ees varry varry stylish.

If you forget it, or commit any other traffic violation, you talk your way out of it, and when that fails, you call the cop a "Nazi".

Like my French buddy did that one time, to that German cop.

Humorless bunch, the Krauts.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13707

Posted
Posted

Isn't the root cause of these riots due to people that are working but barely making enough (or not enough) to pay their bills?  Their income hasn't grown with the cost of living over the past generation.     

The unspoken employer/worker agreement is that if you go to work everyday, you can afford basic items and perhaps a couple of luxuries.  When that fails, those workers will first ask for improvements, then demand them, and ultimately take.   

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Isn't the root cause of these riots due to people that are working but barely making enough (or not enough) to pay their bills?  Their income hasn't grown with the cost of living over the past generation.     

The unspoken employer/worker agreement is that if you go to work everyday, you can afford basic items and perhaps a couple of luxuries.  When that fails, those workers will first ask for improvements, then demand them, and ultimately take.   

The media will tell you it's got to do with a gas tax, but in reality, it's about their leaders betraying the people and country in every way for about 10 years running.

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13707

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Zavala said:

The media will tell you it's got to do with a gas tax, but in reality, it's about their leaders betraying the people and country in every way for about 10 years running.

I don't know what that means.   the leaders have betrayed the people in every way for 10 years?     

And I've read, from the media, that the gas tax itself is not the root cause but more of the straw that broke the camel's back.   France is still struggling to recover from mass unemployment that started ~2008.   

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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Zavala

Zavala 1384

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, staboner said:

can you expound on this a bit? 

 

14 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't know what that means.   the leaders have betrayed the people in every way for 10 years?     

Every chance they got, they screwed over the commoner middle class in France.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france’s-macron-denounces-nationalism-as-a-‘betrayal-of-patriotism’-in-rebuke-to-trump-at-wwi-remembrance/ar-BBPzzwp

Quote

PARIS —In the shadow of a grand war memorial here, French President Emmanuel Macron marked the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I by delivering a forceful rebuke against rising nationalism, calling it a “betrayal of patriotism” and warning against “old demons coming back to wreak chaos and death.”

Speaking in French, Macron emphasized a global order based on liberal values is worth defending against those who have sought to disrupt that system. The millions of soldiers who died in the Great War fought to defend the “universal values” of France, he said, and to reject the “selfishness of nations only looking after their own interests. Because patriotism is exactly the opposite of nationalism.”

Another good article. 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/31/frances-socialists-are-losing-to-a-communist/

Numbers

https://www.socialeurope.eu/europes-shrinking-middle-class

https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcomm/documents/publication/wcms_630642.pdf

 

They are surrendering to themselves right now too :^)

Edited by Zavala
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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13707

Posted
Posted

Globalism does not mean policies against your nation.   In fact, I think it's short sighted to assume international trade is a zero sum game.  If you treat as such, then you're probably ensuring it will be.

If anything France may have protected their middle class against globalism for too long, and now their jobs and income are at risk.    It's unfortunate and sad but there are always victims as the world moves forward.    Progress can create groups of people that are either unwilling or unable to progress themselves.

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Globalism does not mean policies against your nation.   In fact, I think it's short sighted to assume international trade is a zero sum game.  If you treat as such, then you're probably ensuring it will be.

If anything France may have protected their middle class against globalism for too long, and now their jobs and income are at risk.    It's unfortunate and sad but there are always victims as the world moves forward.    Progress can create groups of people that are either unwilling or unable to progress themselves.

Okie dokie, we will see if they throw Macron out or not. Just my thought that this has been building up for quite a while and the explanation that it's a response from a new tax is BS. 

Quote

"I will never accept violence," Macron told reporters before flying home from Buenos Aires. 

https://www.newsweek.com/will-macron-survive-paris-riots-france-1240820

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staboner

staboner 5067

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Zavala said:

 

Every chance they got, they screwed over the commoner middle class in France.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france’s-macron-denounces-nationalism-as-a-‘betrayal-of-patriotism’-in-rebuke-to-trump-at-wwi-remembrance/ar-BBPzzwp

Another good article. 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/31/frances-socialists-are-losing-to-a-communist/

Numbers

https://www.socialeurope.eu/europes-shrinking-middle-class

https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcomm/documents/publication/wcms_630642.pdf

 

They are surrendering to themselves right now too :^)

thanks for this post. Nice Eddie's post was about to be mine.

So I assume we are saying that the government in France - whether traditional right or left - is working to get the rich richer and the middle class can go F themselves? that what I am hearing? Thats sounds awfully like another country i know.

Anti-globalization rhetoric is bothersome because its happening no matter what anyone thinks. I think the problem here with France, Western Europe and the US is we are mixing up the 'finacialization' policies and globalization policies. The governments of each are simply working for the bankers. We had a whole movement in the US on this and they fell asleep since reality became stranger than fiction with fuckstick in the white house. But that is what I think i am reading here. 

France is probably the only country in the world that can give the US a run for 'hardest to govern' right now. Revolutions same time, democracies, etc. The only difference is France needs to become more capitalist and the US more socialist, to reverse trends/damage done by having the other ideology run on too long. I personally don't believe in any ideology over the other, just the fact that pros and cons exist and change is always good. 

 

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, staboner said:

thanks for this post. Nice Eddie's post was about to be mine.

So I assume we are saying that the government in France - whether traditional right or left - is working to get the rich richer and the middle class can go F themselves? that what I am hearing? Thats sounds awfully like another country i know.

Anti-globalization rhetoric is bothersome because its happening no matter what anyone thinks. I think the problem here with France, Western Europe and the US is we are mixing up the 'finacialization' policies and globalization policies. The governments of each are simply working for the bankers. We had a whole movement in the US on this and they fell asleep since reality became stranger than fiction with fuckstick in the white house. But that is what I think i am reading here. 

France is probably the only country in the world that can give the US a run for 'hardest to govern' right now. Revolutions same time, democracies, etc. The only difference is France needs to become more capitalist and the US more socialist, to reverse trends/damage done by having the other ideology run on too long. I personally don't believe in any ideology over the other, just the fact that pros and cons exist and change is always good. 

 

It's a funny label, globalization. Nobody is arguing that the world is increasingly interconnected, but putting the "globe" before the countrymen who are paying taxes isn't right, and it's not even really what they are doing.

For example, how is taxing the public for gas going to solve climate change?

In the US, the public was protesting the "banksters" and wall street while ignoring the source of the issue, the corrupt government. 

Spoiler

 

 

edit: also there's no right or left, especially in France. There's the ruling class, and their puppets, who will say anything to keep the public appeased. 

Edited by Zavala
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staboner

staboner 5067

Posted
Posted
Quote

 

edit: also there's no right or left, especially in France. There's the ruling class, and their puppets, who will say anything to keep the public appeased.

yes, thats my point for the most part. its the same shit as here. ruling class - money and government in bed together. 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13707

Posted
Posted

Every country has an incentive to limit climate change.   Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen too many examples where some countries will benefit.    Limiting carbon emissions is just as much a nationalist policy as global.   

Gas taxes can be especially hard on people where driving is their job.  Higher taxes do not limit their driving but rather just decrease the amount of net income.    Perhaps a better behavioral control policy is to apply gas taxes for non-essential driving.   Or incentivize other behavior like more subsidized train fares.  

 

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Every country has an incentive to limit climate change.   Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen too many examples where some countries will benefit.    Limiting carbon emissions is just as much a nationalist policy as global.   

Gas taxes can be especially hard on people where driving is their job.  Higher taxes do not limit their driving but rather just decrease the amount of net income.    Perhaps a better behavioral control policy is to apply gas taxes for non-essential driving.   Or incentivize other behavior like more subsidized train fares.  

  

Who does the money go to?

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13707

Posted
Posted
Just now, Zavala said:

Who does the money go to?

Are you asking where does the increased tax revenue go to in terms of a higher gas tax?    I don't know if a higher gas tax will result in more tax revenue or not.   I also don't know if France has earmarked the tax revenue to a specific area of spending.   Assuming that they did not, and there is an increased tax revenue, I would guess the increased revenue goes to their general funds.   

I'm not arguing this gas tax is a good idea.  I'm only talking about the idea behind behavior control tax policy in general.  The France gas tax may be the worst idea in the history of the universe.  I don't know.  Only heard about it for the first time yesterday.

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15450

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Are you asking where does the increased tax revenue go to in terms of a higher gas tax?    I don't know if a higher gas tax will result in more tax revenue or not.   I also don't know if France has earmarked the tax revenue to a specific area of spending.   Assuming that they did not, and there is an increased tax revenue, I would guess the increased revenue goes to their general funds.   

I'm not arguing this gas tax is a good idea.  I'm only talking about the idea behind behavior control tax policy in general.  The France gas tax may be the worst idea in the history of the universe.  I don't know.  Only heard about it for the first time yesterday.

Since when in a mostly socialistic government, or even a mostly capitalistic government (read entitlement society), is the tax money not already earmarked.  It ain't going to the general funds.  

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13707

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Trey3216 said:

Since when in a mostly socialistic government, or even a mostly capitalistic government (read entitlement society), is the tax money not already earmarked.  It ain't going to the general funds.  

Does it really matter for countries that fund overspending by borrowing.  However I don't know why this question was posed by Zavala in the first place.   There wasn't a point made about it.

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bolverk

bolverk 30233

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Does it really matter for countries that fund overspending by borrowing.  However I don't know why this question was posed by Zavala in the first place.   There wasn't a point made about it.

Dude, he's posting YouTube videos put up by UKIP. That should be all you need to know about Zavala's motivations.

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Surrender. Ditching the tax. Climate deniers gonna dance in the street.

http://time.com/5470102/france-suspends-tax-yellow-vest-protests/
 

Wow they deny climate? Sad!

I don't believe this is the end, they've figured out they can win. This straw that broke the camels back isn't the full story. 


I'll give my perspective. This is from a French guy doing a PhD in
sociology, with the biases and also the capacity to generalise that comes with this perspective.

France has been implementing neo Liberal economic policies for decades now that have progressively undermined in tandem with globalisation the Middle class that was created from the 50s to the early 90s.

It used to be that part of the reason for this middle classes existence were strong public services that kept costs down in terms of energy, transport and communications, and enabled a measure of redistribution from urban centres to rural areas, by providing cheap services and mass employment.

The last 30 years has seen successive governments cutting taxes for big companies and capital, privatising services and such. This loss of revenue was compensated by cutting costs in rural areas like closing schools, hospitals, train lines and all that made life there livable on the cheap. This has been an issue for a while, and most regions in France are loosing population in favour of very few economic centers. Small rural areas and even major cities like toulouse are loosing population to the capital, London, and the Rhône region, while old industrial heartlands are progressively deserted and agricultural regions survive with difficulty. Meanwhile, INSEE (public office of statistics in France) have show that living standards for the bottom 70% of earners have frozen since the last nineties, and class mobility which increased for every generation since wwII has been decreasing for the first time in the 2002 study. President Hollande cancelled the 2012 study out of fear it could engender too much contestation.

This constitutes the backdrop of the whole issue. Now for the trigger.

The last lifeline for poor rural folk was their ability to find work far from home by being able to afford transportation. Having a car, and being able to afford fuel, is equivalent to being able to continue living for most rural people and the urban poor that have been relegated to far from city centres by gentrification and increasingly unaffordable housing.

So when président announces that older vehicles (the only ones poor people can afford) will be taxed more to encourage people to buy newer vehicles, that these vehicles will loose the right to be driven on polluted days, and that the fuel they use (diesel) will be taxed a lot more, you directly attack the lively hood of millions of people across the country.

These measures, taken in the name of global warming, are seen as widely hypocritical by the poeple. Big SUVs are not taxed more, are allowed to drive on polluted days. Macron himself oversaw a reform of the public train company ensuring its increasing privatisation, allowing for more expensive tickets and overseeing the creation of a cheaper bus service to double the now unaffordable train tickets. The trains were electric and fast, the buses pollute and are slow. You get the picture.

So all these people who used to trust the media and condemn workers striking because their jobs were going to Eastern Europe or China, or people protesting privatisation, are now blocking motorways and rioting in Paris. This is scary, because it offers a rallying cry against neo liberalism and the new oligarchie class that has shapen so much of international politics since the 80s. In my opinion this is why you don't hear a lot about it in international media.

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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted (edited)

The WSJ has a great editorial today about the pushback from ordinary people around the world against the carbon tax boondoggle. Macron is the embodiment of out of touch global elite progressive condescension. His comment to small town and rural French to wait for better public transit and to frigging carpool to deal with his taxes is the 21st century version of Marie Atoinette’s let them eat cake. If the Democrats try to impose a carbon tax here, I’d hope our response would be as voiceferous as the French. I love seeing Eurosceptic, right-wing populism gaining in Europe.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-global-carbon-tax-revolt-1543880507

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Every country has an incentive to limit climate change.   Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen too many examples where some countries will benefit.    Limiting carbon emissions is just as much a nationalist policy as global.   

Gas taxes can be especially hard on people where driving is their job.  Higher taxes do not limit their driving but rather just decrease the amount of net income.    Perhaps a better behavioral control policy is to apply gas taxes for non-essential driving.   Or incentivize other behavior like more subsidized train fares.  

 

China and India are building dirty coal fired power plants in their countries and in China’s case financing their construction across the developing world giving their manufacturing base and economy a leg up while the West is tying their hands behind their backs with shit like carbon taxes. Natural gas fired power plants are cheaper, more efficient and environmentally much cleaner than dirty coal and the market here is responding to that by ditching coal. Same principle applies to greater fuel efficiency for vehicles. Don’t need to harm the average person with a carbon tax when the elites are flying on private planes.

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

Posted
Posted

I guess December 10th we will see what happens?

Quote

MESSAGE DES GILETS JAUNES:

Nous nous adressons à la population, c'est le calme avant la tempête !!! Faites des provisions, de l'essence /gazoil, faites le pleins en nourriture et médicaments !!! Nous allons tout bloquer dès le 10 décembre !!! Nous nous arrêterons quand se que nous demandons sera réellement mis en place !!! Assez de nous prendre pour des cons !! Nous voulons vivre et non survivre !!! Rejoignez nous le10 décembre !! Aucune école, aucune administration ! Ouverte !! Aucun magasin !! Nous bloquerons les accès et sorties d'aéroport !!les grandes surfaces ! Les bureaux !! La Srpp !! Nous prévenons la population !!! Rejoignez nous au différents barrages ou restez chez vous ! Nous les GJ sommes non violents et ne voulons pas que de belles paroles mais des actes !!! LE 10 DÉCEMBRE TOUS ENSEMBLE !!!!

MESSAGE TO THE YELLOW JACKETS:

We are speaking to the population, it is the calm before the storm !!! Stock up on supplies, gasoline/diesel, fill up on food and medecine !!! We are going to block everything starting December 10!!! We will stop when what we demand is truely set forth!!! Enough of!! Join us December 10th!! No school, no administration! Open! No store!! We will block the entrance and exits to the Airports!! The department stores! The offices!! The SRPP (Port Petrolium distribution centers)!! We are warning the population!!! Join us at the different blockades or stay at home! We the YJ (GJ is Gilet Jaune, or Yellow Jackets) are non violent and do not want just pretty words but to see action!!! DECEMBER 10 ALL TOGETHER!!!!

 

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

Posted
Posted

Regressive taxes are probably the dumbest fucking way you could try to deal with climate change.  The obvious path forward are massive public subsidies, which will ultimately help workers by spiking aggregate demand.  However, the latter approach won't further concentrate income/wealth among the rich, so it's off the table.  

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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have always been a bit of a Francophile. My admiration for the French people has only increased with seeing what the Yellow Vests are accomplishing. It’s impressive in its spontaneity and breadth of support. Macron is proving to be a terrible leader but give credit to the French for giving him and his new party a chance at power. Everyone here grumbles that we wish there was a real 3rd party but one never gets off the ground. Basically, instead of us bitching and fighting online about politics they get off their ass and do something about it.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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