Mack Brown Tarheel Football: The Orange Slice Boogaloo

[Dnaguy 12086]

2 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Mack Brown was the best of times. He was also the worst of times. 

[BevoAbyss 2087]

I don't know Mack, never met him. But, I always assumed he was kind of an ass, jerk, and smooth-talking politician all rolled into one... like most all successful coaches. 

-- He won a lot of big games at Texas and fucked up some big games. Should have had 2-3 MNCs, not one. But that one title was one of the greatest college games ever played, likely the greatest. He deserves some credit for that team, even if VY was the star of the show.

-- So I don't like him, I don't hate him. It is what it is. 

-----------------

And if Darrell Royal were coaching now, he would be utterly torched in Surly. 

Was the second winningest coach of entire 1960s. 108 wins, Bear Bryant had 110.

DKR won three MNCs (1963, '69, '70), but let 3 others slip right through his fingers with epic (choke) losses and a tie. '61, '62, '64. 

1961: Undefeated, ranked number 1. Then shut out by TCU 6-0 (team with losing record). Win out, finished at #3.

1962: Undefeated, ranked number 1. Then a tie with Rice 14-14. Final ranking #4. Did fall to LSU in meaningless Bowl Game after choking to Rice.

1964: Undefeated, ranked number 1: Lose by 1 point to Arky 14-13. Win out, stuff Bama and Namath in Orange Bowl. Finish at #5.

Could easily have had a run of 4 straight titles.

Followed that up with 3 straight 6-4 seasons.

-- The geniuses would have crucified him in here.

Then DKR did what was needed. He and Bellard fired up the Wishbone and won 30 straight games, two MNCs. Won two of the greatest college games of the decade with epic last-minute drives and 4th down conversions (Arky, ND).

-- Surly love flows like a river

But then lost five straight to Wishbone-powered OU, plus a tie, to close out his career. 

Stuck with Wishbone too long. Finished last season at 5-5-1

The haters would be all over DKR. 

— "Game passed him by.” 

— "Got lucky with Emory and Wishbone” 

— "James Street saved his ass too many times” ( a la VY saving Mack)

— "Wrecked the place on the way out.” 

— "Burned down UT football program. Fuck him!”

-----------------

As for DKR and his methods, go read the 1972 book Meat on the Hoof. 

-- My dad (RIP, UT alum and fan) gave me a used copy to read after DKR retired ... just to get another perspective on DKR and UT football then. As a kid, I was like "Wow."

-- If 20% of that book is true (and I bet it is and so did my dad who was at UT in late 1950s), DKR had some deep flaws, too.

And UT put his name on the football stadium.

Edited 9 hours ago by BevoAbyss

[runthebone 8047]

11 hours ago, Rimbo said:

who's this WE kemosabe? just that asshole over there

Smith...and Wesson...and bullet

[52-80 19260]

48 minutes ago, WBT said:

Well...not that one.  Every other team.

Yeah, every October weekend as fans we'd get doused in the face with cold water... BUT the team would resume winning the rest of the schedule (mostly), and then end up in a nice Rose Bowl or Fiesta Bowl.

And also between the 2 NCG appearances Texas had their numbers so...

[52-80 19260]

Just saying, the confidence the fan base have this year of feeling like the team can win every game (even if they actually dont).... Mack Brown delivered that for over a decade. 

Very few people did that in recent memory besides Dabo, Stoops, and the Devil.

Pete Carroll was a few years short. Lincoln Riley got half way there and fell down.

[Pimphand 5912]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Just saying, the confidence the fan base have this year of feeling like the team can win every game (even if they actually dont).... Mack Brown delivered that for over a decade. 

Very few people did that in recent memory besides Dabo, Stoops, and the Devil.

Pete Carroll was a few years short. Lincoln Riley got half way there and fell down.

The only time I thought we could win every game was 2004-05 and 2008-09.  Oklahoma was on the schedule annually.

[Bill Brasky 1463]

9 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

You are an idiot.

Greg Davis coached some of the most prolific offenses in Texas history.

Look it up.

like that time they scored 3 points against blowU with Simms/Williams/Thomas/Johnson/Scaife on offense?  the State Fair sent Greg Davis a bill for causing the scoreboard to explode that day 

[Cajun 11750]

10 hours ago, immamac said:

I get that some of you are fucking idiots, but just forgetting about winning a NC and playing in another because you think Mack Brown is a dickhead is seriously some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen on the internet, and I've been on the internet a long fucking time. 

Get a fucking grip. Did Mack deserve to be fired? yeah, every time, including this time. Did Mack Brown also have a fucking awesome run? Yeah. Both things can be true and one doesn't have to get thrown in the trash because you are fucking stupid.

"Sure she drowned the kids in the bathtub when we got a divorce, but man she was fertile as all get out and made a mean spinach casserole!"

~Rusty Yates

 

[Dahobbs 17686]

12 minutes ago, Cajun said:

"Sure she drowned the kids in the bathtub when we got a divorce, but man she was fertile as all get out and made a mean spinach casserole!"

~Rusty Yates

 

You got it backwards. The absolute most important thing you can accomplish in college football is a NC. And Mack delivered one of those and had us a Colt injury away from another. The analogy would be more like "Sure, she raised great children and gave incredible blow jobs for 10 years, but after that she let herself go, stopped trying, and was miserable to be around". The later stuff may be grounds for a divorce. But it doesn't invalidate the important stuff that came before it. 

[MrBig 5443]

We were the football powerhouse in Texas during a pre-social media age where smaller schools had no chance at sniffing any kind of 5-star talent. And in 16 years we got 2 Big 12 titles and reached 2 national title games. What a legend. 

We should have been slapping people around like Saban was doing at Alabama, but instead Mack was fine being OU’s chew toy as long as we were getting those 10 win seasons and playing in meaningless marquee bowl games. 2005-2009 was a great time to be a Longhorn but it took Mack 7 years to get there while losing to OU five straight times in some of the worst blowouts ever. 

UNC had to fire Mack quickly before he torched the place on the way out. Mack only “stepped down” at Texas the day after Saban got his big Alabama extension in 2013. Saban was never coming here but Mack cares about stuff like that. I would not be surprised if he takes some G5 job just to pass up Saban in all-time wins. 

[Dahobbs 17686]

16 minutes ago, MrBig said:

We were the football powerhouse in Texas during a pre-social media age where smaller schools had no chance at sniffing any kind of 5-star talent. And in 16 years we got 2 Big 12 titles and reached 2 national title games. What a legend. 

We were the same program in the 10 years before Mack and didn't accomplish much (and you can't really compare the SWC to the Big 12). Mack laid a lot of the foundation for us to be the financial powerhouse we are today. It is because of his success recruiting and re-generating interest in Texas Football that you can look back during that time period and call us a "powerhouse". I really don't know how y'all don't see that.

Combined record from 10 years before Mack: 65-49-2.

Combined record for first 10 years of Mack: 103-25-0. 

In-fucking-sane to not acknowledge his contribution to re-vitalizing Texas football. 

[Vermin 3060]

11 hours ago, tbone_ said:

Mack Brown is a weird fucker with an odd legacy.

Even if it was in spite of himself, he did manage to put one of the baddest teams ever to play college football on the field in 2005. And a few other pretty damn good teams.

And yet he also was responsible for all the other mind boggling gaping vag shit well chronicled in this thread.

Strange combo when you think about it. Not many have managed to accomplish that wide of a gap between highs and lows. Jimbo Fisher comes to mind.

 

[DFW Horn 6221]

5 minutes ago, Vermin said:

 

[RoyalBevo21 798]

2 hours ago, BevoAbyss said:

I don't know Mack, never met him. But, I always assumed he was kind of an ass, jerk, and smooth-talking politician all rolled into one... like most all successful coaches. 

-- He won a lot of big games at Texas and fucked up some big games. Should have had 2-3 MNCs, not one. But that one title was one of the greatest college games ever played, likely the greatest. He deserves some credit for that team, even if VY was the star of the show.

-- So I don't like him, I don't hate him. It is what it is. 

-----------------

And if Darrell Royal were coaching now, he would be utterly torched in Surly. 

Was the second winningest coach of entire 1960s. 108 wins, Bear Bryant had 110.

DKR won three MNCs (1963, '69, '70), but let 3 others slip right through his fingers with epic (choke) losses and a tie. '61, '62, '64. 

1961: Undefeated, ranked number 1. Then shut out by TCU 6-0 (team with losing record). Win out, finished at #3.

1962: Undefeated, ranked number 1. Then a tie with Rice 14-14. Final ranking #4. Did fall to LSU in meaningless Bowl Game after choking to Rice.

1964: Undefeated, ranked number 1: Lose by 1 point to Arky 14-13. Win out, stuff Bama and Namath in Orange Bowl. Finish at #5.

Could easily have had a run of 4 straight titles.

Followed that up with 3 straight 6-4 seasons.

-- The geniuses would have crucified him in here.

Then DKR did what was needed. He and Bellard fired up the Wishbone and won 30 straight games, two MNCs. Won two of the greatest college games of the decade with epic last-minute drives and 4th down conversions (Arky, ND).

-- Surly love flows like a river

But then lost five straight to Wishbone-powered OU, plus a tie, to close out his career. 

Stuck with Wishbone too long. Finished last season at 5-5-1

The haters would be all over DKR. 

— "Game passed him by.” 

— "Got lucky with Emory and Wishbone” 

— "James Street saved his ass too many times” ( a la VY saving Mack)

— "Wrecked the place on the way out.” 

— "Burned down UT football program. Fuck him!”

-----------------

As for DKR and his methods, go read the 1972 book Meat on the Hoof. 

-- My dad (RIP, UT alum and fan) gave me a used copy to read after DKR retired ... just to get another perspective on DKR and UT football then. As a kid, I was like "Wow."

-- If 20% of that book is true (and I bet it is and so did my dad who was at UT in late 1950s), DKR had some deep flaws, too.

And UT put his name on the football stadium.

I love Coach Royal and the man he was as a coach. No man alive is without his flaws. It's hard to find many with Royal. I'm definitely interested in reading that book, so I appreciate the suggestion. The only flaw I find with Royal is him helping Switzer and Bryant install the wishbone (more so Switzer) I get that he's an Oklahoma alum and all that. But man, they're an annual opponent, no way I'm just giving away trade secrets like that. 

 

One thing at Texas for better or worse, we seem to have success with the "good guys" and have never seen a "killer" type do well here. I'm fine with that. As much as it's annoying, I prefer golly-gee Grandpa Brown over dick head "I'm smarter than everyone" Tom Herman. 

[Pimphand 5912]

Coker just got handed the best roster on earth by Butch Davis who was so dead set on the NFL he was willing to sacrifice his career to go to the Cleveland Dumpster fire but Coker was never going to maintain

Ogre on the other hand recruited lights out on D + the two best WR in the world + got lucky on the Joe Burrow transfer though like Mack Brown he went scorched earth on his tenure there when it looked like he had it all figured out.

Block Head Chizik just had Superman at QB similar to VY but also got real lucky 2010 was Saban's worst post NC year

The closest parallel to Mack Brown is actually Jimbo Fisher.... recruited very well, has a campy folksy aw shucks demeanor laid over an egotistical maniac, but managed to recruit the best QB in the country that particular year then got lazy and blew it up.

Edited 6 hours ago by Pimphand

[tx 3 putt 77462]

no ‘oddness’ about this legacy …

 

[BevoAbyss 2087]

DKR's entire "legend" rests on winning 4 big games. Granted they were 4 of the biggest games of the entire 1960s. 

1964 Cotton Bowl. #1 Texas blasts Navy and Heisman winner Roger Staubach 28-6 to win MNC. Navy was still kind of a powerhouse then and Staubach was already beloved. Aftermath of JFK assassination, too, in Dallas!

1965 Orange Bowl. Texas and Tommy Nobis stuff Joe Namath at 1-yard line in late minutes to win 21-17. In the first televised bowl game at night, as massive audience tunes in. WAY larger audience than anything today. So DKR took down the Bear on the biggest of stages. 

1969 Texas-Arky "Big Shootout." James Street, long 4th down pass, and key interceptions save the day in epic comeback win. Again, before a massive national audience. Only game on TV that day. All-time legendary game.

1970 Cotton Bowl: Follows up epic Arky win as Texas beats Notre Dame 21-17 to win MNC 2. James Street leads late drive to win, with 2 fourth down conversions. Keep in mind, ND was playing in their first bowl since 1920s, because of self-imposed ban to "protect amateurism." (Complete Fighting Irish BS, of course.) Again, massive TV audience because of that.

That's it. 4 games. But DKR:

-- Beat two of the greatest and most famous QBs of all time.

-- Won the biggest game of decade: Texas-Arky with Nixon in the house.

-- Beat ND and broke Catholic hearts across America.

Thus, DKR is unquestioned legend and has his name on stadium.

To become a legend, ya gotta win the biggest of games!

And more than one!  

(Something Mack failed to do.)

Edited 6 hours ago by BevoAbyss

[GreenspointTexas 9678]

Just now, BevoAbyss said:

DKR's entire "legend" rests on winning 4 big games. Granted they were 4 of the biggest games of the entire 1960s. 

1964 Cotton Bowl. #1 Texas blasts Navy and Heisman winner Roger Staubach 28-6 to win MNC. Navy was still kind of a powerhouse then and Staubach was already beloved. 

1965 Orange Bowl. Texas and Tommy Nobis stuff Joe Namath at 1-yard line in late minutes to win 21-17. In the first televised bowl game at night, as massive audience tunes in. WAY larger audience than anything today. So DKR took down the Bear on the biggest of stages. 

1969 Texas-Arky "Big Shootout." James Street, long 4th down pass, and key interceptions save the day in epic comeback win. Again, before a massive national audience. Only game on TV that day. All-time legendary game.

1970 Cotton Bowl: Follows up epic Arky win as Texas beats Notre Dame 21-17 to win MNC 2. James Street leads late drive to win, with 2 fourth down conversions. Keep in mind, ND was playing in their first bowl since 1920s, because of self-imposed ban to "protect amateurism." (Complete Fighting Irish BS, of course.)

That's it. 4 games. But DKR:

-- Beat two of the greatest and most famous QBs of all time.

-- Won the biggest game of decade: Texas-Arky with Nixon in the house.

-- Beat ND and broke Catholic hearts across America.

Thus, DKR is unquestioned legend and has his name on stadium.

To become a legend, ya gotta win the biggest of games!

And more than one!  

(Something Mack failed to do.)

DKR would have been a bigger legend, maybe one of the biggest ever, had he not taught blowU the wishbone

[immamac 43127]

What happened to some of you? 

[52-80 19260]

1 hour ago, MrBig said:

 

but instead Mack was fine being OU’s chew toy as long as we were getting those 10 win seasons and playing in meaningless marquee bowl games.

Playing 1/2-loss teams like Michigan and Ohio State in marquee bowl games isnt meaningless to me. 

[tx 3 putt 77462]

when they unveil the mack brown statue at dkr, half of surly will show up to boo 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21930]

Surly May implode before Saturday evening gets here

[RoyalBevo21 798]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Playing 1/2-loss teams like Michigan and Ohio State in marquee bowl games isnt meaningless to me. 

When your arch rival plays for titles in 2000, 2003, 2004, 2008 that you could’ve easily been in their place had you not been a pussy, it’s a big deal. There was a clear path for Texas to play for titles in 2001, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2009. Had that happened I imagine this thread looks vastly different.

[PilotsError 2324]

15 hours ago, immamac said:

I get that some of you are fucking idiots, but just forgetting about winning a NC and playing in another because you think Mack Brown is a dickhead is seriously some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen on the internet, and I've been on the internet a long fucking time. 

Get a fucking grip. Did Mack deserve to be fired? yeah, every time, including this time. Did Mack Brown also have a fucking awesome run? Yeah. Both things can be true and one doesn't have to get thrown in the trash because you are fucking stupid.

 

Christ almighty shut the fuck up.

[Beau Vine 54448]

18 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

Plenty of teams can talk about what ifs. We didn’t.

In no small part because Mack refused to change his approach to the OU game. We got skullfucked so many times because we went three and out on our first series and OU led by 3 scores at the end of the first Q. It’s absolutely enraging. 

Not just 3 and out, but bubble screen right with no WRs blocking for a loss of 2, bubble screen left with no WRs blocking for -2, incomplete 5-yard pass to the TE running a hook.

[Beau Vine 54448]

17 hours ago, Rimbo said:

It's like that one girlfriend that was so much fun up until she cheated on you several times. You can still think fondly on the fucking while hating her ever loving guts for the betrayal at the end. Go die in a fire, Erin, I still hate your fucking bread-dough-smelling cunt you ftdr CC vh

[NoctambulantBrobdingnagian 540]

16 hours ago, RC Horn said:

Barry Switzer had a winning record against Texas as did Bud Wilkinson and Bob Stoops. However,  Coach Royal was 12-7-1 vs OU. Coach Akers was 5-4-1. Coach McWilliams was 3-2 and Mackovic was 3-2-1.   Mack was 7-9 vs OU with 4 very bad losses/

Weirdly, Mac was an obsessed fan of a particular generation of stark trek show; his record is simply a reflection of that and an homage.

When asked to comment on this quirk, Mac had a behind the scenes back story. "It's simply a little known fact, that Jeri Ryan's character was supposed to go by the name 'One of Twelve'. Well, I took care of that little issue earlier this year. My good friends Bob and Bobby, respectively, knew this."

[Beau Vine 54448]

[Cajun 11750]

5 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

You got it backwards. The absolute most important thing you can accomplish in college football is a NC. And Mack delivered one of those and had us a Colt injury away from another. The analogy would be more like "Sure, she raised great children and gave incredible blow jobs for 10 years, but after that she let herself go, stopped trying, and was miserable to be around". The later stuff may be grounds for a divorce. But it doesn't invalidate the important stuff that came before it. 

Except "she" drowned the kids on the way out.

[HuttNuts 72]

1998-2002 Mack: Busting his ass hustler

2003-2005 Mack: Learning how to use an iPod

2005-2009 Mack: Drinking 2005 vintage champagne at the UT football country club

2010 Mack: Hungover puking his ass off

2011-2013 Mack: Leave me alone I'm hung the fuck over (pay me though)

[Horn80 6131]

As I recall, Switzer really got under DKR’s skin and the frustration probably got to much for him.  Texas won the last game of his final season against Arkansas which kept him from going out with losing season and considering he was on top of CFB in 1969-70 to almost having losing season six years later was sad ending.

I will never understand why Mack wanted to blow everything up after the NC Bama loss considering Texas very likely would have won but for Colt’s injury.   However, I do think he probably brought much of the loss on himself by refusing to give Gilbert practically zero playing time during the season.  Guess he wanted to pad Colt’s stats as much as possible to increase his chances to win the Heisman.  

[HuttNuts 72]

9 minutes ago, Horn80 said:

As I recall, Switzer really got under DKR’s skin and the frustration probably got to much for him.  Texas won the last game of his final season against Arkansas which kept him from going out with losing season and considering he was on top of CFB in 1969-70 to almost having losing season six years later was sad ending.

I will never understand why Mack wanted to blow everything up after the NC Bama loss considering Texas very likely would have won but for Colt’s injury.   However, I do think he probably brought much of the loss on himself by refusing to give Gilbert practically zero playing time during the season.  Guess he wanted to pad Colt’s stats as much as possible to increase his chances to win the Heisman.  

It was already blown up and sinking at that point. Colt, Shipley, Muschamp, plus a few older D-players were keeping it afloat. 

[TxEx84 425]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

Was the ou game wiped off the record books? Because I was there and it sucked.

[Rimbo 26137]

1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

A game is missing from this list.

[tbone_ 14169]

Coker just got handed the best roster on earth by Butch Davis who was so dead set on the NFL he was willing to sacrifice his career to go to the Cleveland Dumpster fire but Coker was never going to maintain
Ogre on the other hand recruited lights out on D + the two best WR in the world + got lucky on the Joe Burrow transfer though like Mack Brown he went scorched earth on his tenure there when it looked like he had it all figured out.
Block Head Chizik just had Superman at QB similar to VY but also got real lucky 2010 was Saban's worst post NC year
The closest parallel to Mack Brown is actually Jimbo Fisher.... recruited very well, has a campy folksy aw shucks demeanor laid over an egotistical maniac, but managed to recruit the best QB in the country that particular year then got lazy and blew it up.

Uh yea

[Pimphand 5912]

7 minutes ago, TxEx84 said:

Was the ou game wiped off the record books? Because I was there and it sucked.

Yeah was wondering that one myself...  To think Les Miles fucked us in the end by beating OU and putting us in the B12 CCG for Simms to implode and us to throw shit on the field stopping the game to pull Mack from his moribund coma.  We weren't going to go to the BCS game but we likely were headed to the Sugar Bowl instead our choke job got the Holiday Bowl AGAIN and Major had to go nuts to save our asses.  I watched that game at the bar at Porta Di Roma in Dallas as I was slaving away on the TXU deregulation project because ERCOT was launching deregulation 4 days later.

[tbone_ 14169]

no ‘oddness’ about this legacy …
 

It is indeed the definition of odd that someone won that many games at two schools and neither one of them really like him.

[tx 3 putt 77462]

2 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

It is indeed the definition of odd that someone won that many games at two schools and neither one of them really like him.

 

he made winning look easy 

 

i don’t thing the bigger programs have the patience anymore for a coach to hit 150 wins  

Edited 56 minutes ago by tx 3 putt

[Pimphand 5912]

Just now, tx 3 putt said:

he made winning look easy 

When Major, Vince, or Colt were behind center.

You also have to give him an F-------- for missing on RG3, Manziel, & choosing Squints over Luck

He could have been god

His legacy is complicated..... it has amazing highs and amazing fuckups.

[tx 3 putt 77462]

4 minutes ago, Pimphand said:

When Major, Vince, or Colt were behind center.

You also have to give him an F-------- for missing on RG3, Manziel, & choosing Squints over Luck

He could have been god

His legacy is complicated..... it has amazing highs and amazing fuckups.

 

manziel wins at least one MNC here. would have been ballsy running with a three star qb. if sark signed a 3 star, this board would be howling  

 

it all leads to a great discussion 

 

Edited 51 minutes ago by tx 3 putt

[Not a cat 5706]

20 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

A game is missing from this list.

I'm guessing this is Cedric's per game stats of his freshman year.  That's why a game is missing.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

5 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

when they unveil the mack brown statue at dkr, half of surly will show up to boo 

It will be like putting a statue of Bud Adams in Houston…..  

[Not a cat 5706]

58 minutes ago, HuttNuts said:

It was already blown up and sinking at that point. Colt, Shipley, Muschamp, plus a few older D-players were keeping it afloat. 

This.  Mack basically quit and started sniffing his own farts on January 7, 2006.  

He already had the 06 class in the barn by then but after that it was look out below.  Hence the freefall once that class graduated.

I can have fond memories of a guy who simply had the game pass him by, but someone that just quit working and, even worse, actively sabotaged the program on the way out can get fucked.

[Beau Vine 54448]

29 minutes ago, TxEx84 said:

Was the ou game wiped off the record books? Because I was there and it sucked.

 

28 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

A game is missing from this list.

Yes, Ced didn't play that game.   Because of "his inexperience with blitz pickups."

[HuttNuts 72]

2 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

This.  Mack basically quit and started sniffing his own farts on January 7, 2006.  

He already had the 06 class in the barn by then but after that it was look out below.  Hence the freefall once that class graduated.

I can have fond memories of a guy who simply had the game pass him by, but someone that just quit working and, even worse, actively sabotaged the program on the way out can get fucked.

And just to make sure, that was the Robert Joseph class

[randomhorn 1807]

34 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

It will be like putting a statue of Bud Adams in Houston…..  

… for me to poop on!

Fuck Bud Adams

[randomhorn 1807]

18 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

You are an idiot.

Greg Davis coached some of the most prolific offenses in Texas history.

Look it up.

The 5 yard out on a 3rd and long was a banger

[Pimphand 5912]

40 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

It will be like putting a statue of Bud Adams in Houston…..  

Naw.. Mack was a petulant child who torched his own legacy and royally fucked up the QB position most the time but he ain't evil incarnate....