Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[FartingMonk 3606]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude....seriously?  How many died from Chernobyl?  Even conservative estimates put it at tens of thousands of premature deaths due to radiation.  And it terrorized much of europe.  Yes, its ONLY value is as a terror tactic.  I agree.  And terrorism is the best available weapon for an outgunned opponent.  We don't have to like it, it's just the way things be.

Just think about that shit for a second.  Like the sheer size of Chernobyl and how much actual material was there.  A small dirty bomb isn't going to do that.  And why would Russia give a shit about some guys dying 10 years down the road.  Even if it was on the table.  It would do no damage.  If you're gonna go that option. You might as well use sarin and VX gas and watch the dudes next to you hemorrhage to death and take video.  You want true terror that's what you do.  

[Brisketexan 105046]

2 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Just think about that shit for a second.  Like the sheer size of Chernobyl and how much actual material was there.  A small dirty bomb isn't going to do that.  And why would Russia give a shit about some guys dying 10 years down the road.  Even if it was on the table.  It would do no damage.  If you're gonna go that option. You might as well use sarin and VX gas and watch the dudes next to you hemorrhage to death and take video.  You want true terror that's what you do.  

No, Chernobyl IS the dirty bomb.  You blow it the fuck up, scattering radiation to the four winds.  That's how it's dangerous.

And Russia doesn't give a shit about human life.  But its soldiers might be scared.  But more to the point, Chernobyl traumatized the shit out of the Germans.  Want to get them off their asses?  Tell them their inaction will lead to Chernobyl 2, Electric Boogaloo.

And, again -- someone tell me ANY other play that Ukraine has.

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

14 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

As we continue to debate whether Ukraine should threaten to kill tens of thousands of Ukrainians to save Ukraine via a method that probably wouldn’t work, I am asking you to watch this completely insane video released on the Russian Defense Ministry Twitter (hashtag we are with you Kamila):

 

I drank my grandpa’s glass of water (It’s Piss???) is a pretty lame excuse. Do better.

There’s a reason why they are competing under the term ROC. 
Dragos gonna Dragos. 
WADA ban out front shoulda told ya. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by JerrysJheriCurl

[FartingMonk 3606]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

No, Chernobyl IS the dirty bomb.  You blow it the fuck up, scattering radiation to the four winds.  That's how it's dangerous.

And Russia doesn't give a shit about human life.  But its soldiers might be scared.  But more to the point, Chernobyl traumatized the shit out of the Germans.  Want to get them off their asses?  Tell them their inaction will lead to Chernobyl 2, Electric Boogaloo.

And, again -- someone tell me ANY other play that Ukraine has.

Haha.  Ok I misread it.  I thought you were talking about just using dirty bombs.  If my leadership said yeah we are going to blow up Chernobyl if you invade.  I'll shoot that leader myself and happily welcome uncle Vlad as the new leader.  That's fucking insane

[956 Worldwide 34695]

@Brisketexan, Chernobyl is buried under massive structures designed to not let radiation out and you could drop a conventional bomb on it and cause far less damage than the original meltdown.  Ukraine operates four nuclear power plants, including one nearer Donbas, and if you wanted to do this it would make more sense just to melt one of them down on purpose.  But it’s just a terrible idea all around that accomplishes nothing. 

[Ghost of LL 15531]

24 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

@Brisketexan, Chernobyl is buried under massive structures designed to not let radiation out and you could drop a conventional bomb on it and cause far less damage than the original meltdown.  Ukraine operates four nuclear power plants, including one nearer Donbas, and if you wanted to do this it would make more sense just to melt one of them down on purpose.  But it’s just a terrible idea all around that accomplishes nothing. 

You don't need to melt it down.  You could probably program it remotely to have a super-criticality event just as the 8th Guards Army is crossing through the area.

I mean, it's not desirable.  But Ukraine is facing an existential threat.

[SimonBolivar 10957]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

But Ukraine is facing an existential threat.

Do enough Ukrainians care though? I think that's the key. In Afghanistan and Vietnam they care about foreign invaders. In Ukraine will they just shrug their shoulders and get their applications ready for Moscow State University or will they put up a fight to the end?

[Brisketexan 105046]

47 minutes ago, Jameslaw121 said:

I'm pretty sure threatening to blow up a nuclear reactor will scare our European Allies alot more than Putin

BINGO.  That's your primary audience.

27 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

@Brisketexan, Chernobyl is buried under massive structures designed to not let radiation out and you could drop a conventional bomb on it and cause far less damage than the original meltdown.  Ukraine operates four nuclear power plants, including one nearer Donbas, and if you wanted to do this it would make more sense just to melt one of them down on purpose.  But it’s just a terrible idea all around that accomplishes nothing. 

 

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

You don't need to melt it down.  You could probably program it remotely to have a super-criticality event just as the 8th Guards Army is crossing through the area.

I mean, it's not desirable.  But Ukraine is facing an existential threat.

This.

Europe and the US made me give up my nukes when the USSR dissolved, and told me they'd take care of my security.

Now, they are breaking their promise.  So....fuck 'em.  I'm gonna break mine.  I will use all of my forward nuclear plants as dirty bombs.

Don't want nuclear debris raining on your people, Europe?  Then keep your fucking promises.

Putin is crazy evil and will stop at nothing.  There's only way to beat it -- be crazier and more destructive.  Or at least be a threat to be those things, if the west, who disarmed me and left me vulnerable, get their shit right.

Put a country in a position of being threatened with extinction as a sovereign state, this kind of shit is on the table.  This does not end well.

[FartingMonk 3606]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

You don't need to melt it down.  You could probably program it remotely to have a super-criticality event just as the 8th Guards Army is crossing through the area.

I mean, it's not desirable.  But Ukraine is facing an existential threat.

But that's not how they work at all.  Or even close to it

[Parliament 14227]

Blowing up Chernobyl would probably deter Russia from invading, but I cannot support that decision.  Because, you know, nuclear fallout doesn't respect borders or nationality.  Too harsh for me.

[Ghost of LL 15531]

2 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

But that's not how they work at all.  Or even close to it

Since when?  Isn't there some indication that Chernobyl went critical?

[Brisketexan 105046]

Blowing up Chernobyl would probably deter Russia from invading, but I cannot support that decision.  Because, you know, nuclear fallout doesn't respect borders or nationality.  Too harsh for me.

Tough shit, Europe. Shoulda kept your promise. You still can. Tick tock.

[atomheartbevo 89618]

8 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

We could move them to Turkey if we really wanted, or much closer to the western borders of Poland.  They're a giant middle finger to Putin and it pisses him off and have him extremely worried.

Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) only works when both sides are vulnerable to one another.  I can hurt you.  You can hurt me.  So let's not do this.

Modern systems, either on land or in space, that can provide an effective method to mitigate attacks changes everything.  Missiles such as these could be classified as such.  When one side is no longer as vulnerable, this can and will cause the other side to make more desperate moves.  

The problem with MAD in these days of cyberwarfare is that if one side gets their communications cut, or is fed deep fake information, they could panic if they think they only have minutes to make a decision.  And some of the decision makers might be the types to pass shit around social media that they don't realize is fake, so they may not recognize it, even if somebody is telling them the information is false, etc.

[FartingMonk 3606]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Since when?  Isn't there some indication that Chernobyl went critical?

Every reactor that is generating power is actually critical.  When you start up a reactor you bring it up to the point of critically.  Reactors are super critical when you raise the power on it.  To get to where you guys are trying to say.  You'd have to disable a bunch of safety features and then have it go prompt critical and that basically is taking it to the point of no return and actually causing major core damage and have a release.  The problem with that is you can just be like oh I only want it to release this much.  Once you go prompt critical the reactor is on its own and you're pretty much fucked.

[nineliveslost 2753]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Tough shit, Europe. Shoulda kept your promise. You still can. Tick tock.

YEA , fuck all those lives. mighty brave of you when it's not your balls on the stove. you go keyboard warrior !!

 

 

 

[FartingMonk 3606]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Tough shit, Europe. Shoulda kept your promise. You still can. Tick tock.

Holy shit.  When I win the mega millions tonight and take over a small 3rd world country I am definitely going to make you my Secretary of Offense.  

[Parliament 14227]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Tough shit, Europe. Shoulda kept your promise. You still can. Tick tock.

Question for the group.  How do I put someone on ignore again?

[52-80 19142]

Blowing up your own old nuclear factory will be a new game feature in Sid Meiers upcoming Civ 6

[Hefeweizen 5308]

Just now, 52-80 said:

Blowing up your own old nuclear factory will be a new game feature in Sid Meiers upcoming Civ 6

Nah this is the next STALKER CALL OF PRIPYAT game.  Seriously though, I think that may be the craziest idea out of crazy ideas I've heard recently.  Can we not use trebuchets to throw diseased cows into Russia?

[FartingMonk 3606]

2 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Nah this is the next STALKER CALL OF PRIPYAT game.  Seriously though, I think that may be the craziest idea out of crazy ideas I've heard recently.  Can we not use trebuchets to throw diseased cows into Russia?

Or go with General Cartman Lee strategy and just keep everyone drunk or schmore schnapps or vodka and just take over Russia with your drunk confederate soldiers.  Any idea is better than blowing up your own reactor

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

As we continue to debate whether Ukraine should threaten to kill tens of thousands of Ukrainians to save Ukraine via a method that probably wouldn’t work, I am asking you to watch this completely insane video released on the Russian Defense Ministry Twitter (hashtag we are with you Kamila):
 

2032…she tests positive for banned substance

[Brisketexan 105046]

YEA , fuck all those lives. mighty brave of you when it's not your balls on the stove. you go keyboard warrior !!
 

 
 

Dude… I’m not rooting for this. I’m Observing a card that can be played. Aggressively. I don’t want any of this to happen. But when one fucks around, one finds out. That is the nature of war.

[GabrielsHorn 2183]

51 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Now, they are breaking their promise.  So....fuck 'em.  I'm gonna break mine.  I will use all of my forward nuclear plants as dirty bombs.

[twosheds 374]

Tough shit, Europe. Shoulda kept your promise. You still can. Tick tock.

[nineliveslost 2753]

19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude… I’m not rooting for this. I’m Observing a card that can be played. Aggressively. I don’t want any of this to happen. But when one fucks around, one finds out. That is the nature of war.

I know that man, I was just pointing out that either way this shit goes aggressively thousands of people are going to die. I hate that if it escalates exponentially , 1000s of thousands of people will die and it might drag a global war into the fray. Then fucking millions of people will die. might be the worst case. BUT fuck my 401k is going to take a hit 

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

Once again, can we keep it to things that are practical and have a possibility to happen, along with the other prescient or surly takes?

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Man some of y'all are really all het up about the sanctity of Ukrainian independence...Or is it that you feel Putin is making America look weak? Are we still butthurt over the 2016 election and how he (and not Fox News) brainwashed our elders and the dumber of our old friends? Residual Cold War paranoia?

What I see is two corrupt and oligarchical nations fighting over protecting their slice of the pie. It's not like they don't share millennia of common history, or that Russia is gonna come in there and pull a Tibet / Xinjiang and attempt to erase the Ukrainians as a people. I just don't get the bloodlust. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, JerrysJheriCurl said:

Once again, can we keep it to things that are practical and have a possibility to happen, along with the other prescient or surly takes?

Sources tell me Ukrainian agents have been preparing to activate the Yellowstone Supervolcano if the Russians invade. While it would wipe out 90 percent of life on the planet and bring about a mega Ice Age, Ukraine would enter into that Dark Age heads unbowed to the Russian Bear.

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

And again… if you want to go CR… there’s a place for that. It ain’t here. 
You can take that to the appropriate place, por favor. 
This is why we can’t have nice things…

Edited February 19, 2022 by JerrysJheriCurl

[FartingMonk 3606]

2 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Man some of y'all are really all het up about the sanctity of Ukrainian independence...Or is it that you feel Putin is making America look weak? Are we still butthurt over the 2016 election and how he (and not Fox News) brainwashed our elders and the dumber of our old friends? Residual Cold War paranoia?

What I see is two corrupt and oligarchical nations fighting over protecting their slice of the pie. It's not like they don't share millennia of common history, or that Russia is gonna come in there and pull a Tibet / Xinjiang and attempt to erase the Ukrainians as a people. I just don't get the bloodlust. 

Personally I don't give two shits about Ukraine.  I just feel that this is going to trigger something bigger.  But if it isn't Ukraine it's some other country.  World War 3 is due.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 minutes ago, JerrysJheriCurl said:

And again… if you want to go CR… there’s a place for that. It ain’t here. 
You can take that to the appropriate place, por favor. 
This is why we can’t have nice things…

I think a CR thread is probably due and I certainly don't want this one turning into one of those, but I really do wonder why there is such strong hatred for Russia, and I think the election meddling is a possible contributor.

Why do we cackle with glee over the possible incineration/radiation of Russian soldiers -- just kids, most of them? We haven't even been propagandized properly yet -- no tales of them tossing Ukrainian babies from bayonet to bayonet or anything like that. It's just a headscratcher to me. 

[Etexhorn13 3045]

8 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I think a CR thread is probably due and I certainly don't want this one turning into one of those, but I really do wonder why there is such strong hatred for Russia, and I think the election meddling is a possible contributor.

Why do we cackle with glee over the possible incineration/radiation of Russian soldiers -- just kids, most of them? We haven't even been propagandized properly yet -- no tales of them tossing Ukrainian babies from bayonet to bayonet or anything like that. It's just a headscratcher to me. 

Rocky IV, bitch. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by Etexhorn13

[KYHorn 17004]

I think much of this from the US's perspective is about the one person who's watching this closely: Xi. If we and out allies are complacent or disinterested, Tiawan is next and then we've entered into a world where China and Russia are the clear powers and others not aligned with our interests are emboldened to do as they wish, while our allies have to bend over and accept it. 

[FartingMonk 3606]

5 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I think a CR thread is probably due and I certainly don't want this one turning into one of those, but I really do wonder why there is such strong hatred for Russia, and I think the election meddling is a possible contributor.

Why do we cackle with glee over the possible incineration/radiation of Russian soldiers -- just kids, most of them? We haven't even been propagandized properly yet -- no tales of them tossing Ukrainian babies from bayonet to bayonet or anything like that. It's just a headscratcher to me. 

Please shut the fuck up about the election.  We went damn near 20 pages into this thread and you come in and bring up Trump and the election twice in an hour.  Fuckwads like you always go I don't want to CR it but I'm gonna CR it anyways.

[Hefeweizen 5308]

9 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I think a CR thread is probably due and I certainly don't want this one turning into one of those, but I really do wonder why there is such strong hatred for Russia, and I think the election meddling is a possible contributor.

Why do we cackle with glee over the possible incineration/radiation of Russian soldiers -- just kids, most of them? We haven't even been propagandized properly yet -- no tales of them tossing Ukrainian babies from bayonet to bayonet or anything like that. It's just a headscratcher to me. 

Fuck Russia and their bullshit.  GTFO with cloak rooming this too.  I feel the same way about them as I do about China.  Piece of shit government.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I'll shut up about it now....I ventured into the CR thread and it's the usual. I wish there was a way to be analytical about it without it turning into a shitshow but I know that's just not possible. 

[FartingMonk 3606]

6 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

I think much of this from the US's perspective is about the one person who's watching this closely: Xi. If we and out allies are complacent or disinterested, Tiawan is next and then we've entered into a world where China and Russia are the clear powers and others not aligned with our interests are emboldened to do as they wish, while our allies have to bend over and accept it. 

Yeah.  That's why I am so glued to this.  It's been a game of chess that everyone has been probing.  But someone is going to make a gambit.  Ukraine goes.  China moves at Taiwan.  Iran moves at Saudi.  Israel gets drawn in somewhere.  

[Hefeweizen 5308]

3 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Yeah.  That's why I am so glued to this.  It's been a game of chess that everyone has been probing.  But someone is going to make a gambit.  Ukraine goes.  China moves at Taiwan.  Iran moves at Saudi.  Israel gets drawn in somewhere.  

That's worst case, Tom Clancy wet dream shit.

China isn't moving on Taiwan yet.  They don't have the naval amphibious capability yet.  

I think what will be most fascinating to watch (all wartime horror aside) is the idea that Russia thinks they are rolling into Kyiv.  All their advantages in equipment evaporate in an urban environment.  It will be brutal.

Did anyone know Vitali Klitschko is the mayor?  Ivan Drago gon get knocked the fuck out!

Edited February 19, 2022 by Hefeweizen
Your mom.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

25 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

I just feel that this is going to trigger something bigger.  But if it isn't Ukraine it's some other country.  World War 3 is due.

I fear this too. I think there are times when our species just turns on itself....Overpopulation I guess. 

[TejanoAtUT 15]

During President Biden's press conference earlier today, one thing that was mentioned was whether Ukraine's President Zelenskyy would choose to attend the Munich Conference, or if he should remain in Ukraine due to the current situation in the Donbas.

Considering Russia would jump at any easy opportunity to further destabilize the Ukrainian government, I imagine Zelenskyy will remain in Kyiv this weekend.

In the unlikely scenario that Zelenskyy ends up traveling to Munich, I wonder if it would trigger Putin to give the go ahead for invasion before Zelenskyy returns. How realistic of a scenario would that be? I can't imagine it would be as simple as saying "go", as the sheer amount of the Russian forces probably would take some amount of time to coordinate and get rolling, right?

[FartingMonk 3606]

1 minute ago, TejanoAtUT said:

During President Biden's press conference earlier today, one thing that was mentioned was whether Ukraine's President Zelenskyy would choose to attend the Munich Conference, or if he should remain in Ukraine due to the current situation in the Donbas.

Considering Russia would jump at any easy opportunity to further destabilize the Ukrainian government, I imagine Zelenskyy will remain in Kyiv this weekend.

In the unlikely scenario that Zelenskyy ends up traveling to Munich, I wonder if it would trigger Putin to give the go ahead for invasion before Zelenskyy returns. How realistic of a scenario would that be? I can't imagine it would be as simple as saying "go", as the sheer amount of the Russian forces probably would take some amount of time to coordinate and get rolling, right?

I think Munich is all but cancelled.  The movement isn't going to take much more coordination when you break down the overall scenario.  Strategically the goal is to take Kiev but tactically.  The unit objective is much more simple.  And unless we play some major behind the scenes stuff like jamming everything from satellites to comms then you still have a pretty good idea of what is going on.  The cyber stuff is the scary part.  There is a sort of gentlemans agreement.  Sort of a cyber MAD that nation's adhere to that may get crossed.  Any form of fucking with someone's satellite is pretty big no no.

[atomheartbevo 89618]

2 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

Holy shit.  When I win the mega millions tonight and take over a small 3rd world country I am definitely going to make you my Secretary of Offense.  

Having played plenty of Civilization, there's only one Secretary of Offense that you want.

 

[atomheartbevo 89618]

4 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

The topography doesn't lend itself for a drawn out guerrilla defense like Afghanistan or Viet Nam.

If their trucks get bogged down in the mud, it'll be easy hunting for the Ukrainians, and suck up more and more Russian troops having to guard convoys/etc.

If they try and take the larger cities though....that's going to be the guerrilla defense you are talking about.  Russia will have to start leveling civilian population centers.

[FartingMonk 3606]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

If their trucks get bogged down in the mud, it'll be easy hunting for the Ukrainians, and suck up more and more Russian troops having to guard convoys/etc.

If they try and take the larger cities though....that's going to be the guerrilla defense you are talking about.  Russia will have to start leveling civilian population centers.

The American doctrine has been fighting the Soviet union on open battlefields for 70 years.  Saddam got his army destroyed by that.  The new doctrine has a leaner mobile army against a very heavily armored Russia.  Those javelins are going to get made famous in a day or two.  Urban warfare I think they just raze the cities.

[Brisketexan 105046]

If their trucks get bogged down in the mud, it'll be easy hunting for the Ukrainians, and suck up more and more Russian troops having to guard convoys/etc.
If they try and take the larger cities though....that's going to be the guerrilla defense you are talking about.  Russia will have to start leveling civilian population centers.

So, acknowledging that the Russians are going to level European cities (and that’s what they’ll do)….y’all are getting it. This is going to be real close to total war. And when that happens, the other side fights with all they’ve got. I don’t know why we’d thing that anything is off the table.

This could be beyond bad.

[twosheds 374]

Those javelins are going to get made famous in a day or two. 

How famous you thinking?

Raytheon (RTX) 93.37
Lockheed Martin (LMT) 386.46

#surlystonk

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 I wish there was a way to be analytical about it without it turning into a shitshow but I know that's just not possible. 

There is. That’s why grown folk on this thread are trying to keep it that way. 
We have been discussing the politics and policies of the situation for some weeks now.

We are modeling how to get your discourse on. Feel free to lurk and learn hermano. 
Just put some respeck on this thread’s name a la Birdman. 

Edited February 19, 2022 by JerrysJheriCurl

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

3 hours ago, FartingMonk said:

Just think about that shit for a second.  Like the sheer size of Chernobyl and how much actual material was there.  A small dirty bomb isn't going to do that.  And why would Russia give a shit about some guys dying 10 years down the road.  Even if it was on the table.  It would do no damage.  If you're gonna go that option. You might as well use sarin and VX gas and watch the dudes next to you hemorrhage to death and take video.  You want true terror that's what you do.  

[Fudge Nuggets 19184]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I think a CR thread is probably due and I certainly don't want this one turning into one of those, but I really do wonder why there is such strong hatred for Russia, and I think the election meddling is a possible contributor.

Why do we cackle with glee over the possible incineration/radiation of Russian soldiers -- just kids, most of them? We haven't even been propagandized properly yet -- no tales of them tossing Ukrainian babies from bayonet to bayonet or anything like that. It's just a headscratcher to me. 

Someone wasn’t old enough to remember Lake Placid.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Someone wasn’t old enough to remember Lake Placid.

No I remember it well and briefly became obsessed with hockey. Unfortunately I lived in pre-Predators Nashville during the school year and in post-Aeros Houston during summers and holidays. Kicking their asses in sports is awesome....

As to the impending war, I truly don't believe Vlad will squander what political capital he has leveling Kyiv and Lvov. I don't think that would play horribly in Russia as well as the rest of the world....It took four years for our Civil War to get that vicious and that more or less is what that is -- not a war against some easily demoniizable "other." Ukraine and Chechnya are not the same; the Russians have a long, long history of fighting no quarter wars in the Caucasus. Images of Kyiv on fire would conjure unpleasant memories in the minds of very old Russians. Cognitive dissonance galore.