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Русский корабль - иди нахуй

Eastwood

By Eastwood
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AUS-97HORN
AUS-97HORN

For the love of Christ woman,  stop posting the same fucking thing every 20 mins just to make your neurotic self feel better.     Bring something useful to the thread other than your inane babbli

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InkaUtexas
InkaUtexas

I volunteered today. Log/Admin role to replace people for 30-60 days. The operation is in the west, or should the Orcs win will be pulled back behind the NATO wall. Either way the humanitarian effort

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BrazilHorn

BrazilHorn 6607

Posted
Posted
Just now, Constant said:

Watching this with some earbuds and you can hear aircraft in the sky over the silent city. Very eerie. 

I am shocked a crypto company isn't trying to shoehorn an ad in somewhere on this feed. Pay some Ukrainian 500k to drive around with a lighted up sign on the roof of their car.

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26443

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

I was watching some videos earlier and it just had pictures of abandoned Russian vehicles, tanks, trucks, various armor and I thought is that vehicles that just couldn't make the trek anymore?  Those things take a lot of maintenance and if maintenance hasn't been maintained. A bunch of those vehicles won't make it to their objective.

I know zip about the current Russian Army. If it's at all like the WW2 Red Army (probably not) or even the 1980s version that I personally kept out of Kentucky (you're welcome) then for maintenance maybe imagine your mechanic without all the parts he needs, but the vodka will help him improvise. This analysis is all coming straight out of my head but I bet it's correct.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89671

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, troph said:

There seems to be a real disconnect doesn’t there? I will say the amount of artillery and tanks the CNN on the ground reporter saw flowing in today from Belgorod sounded impressive but to move that quickly after a lackluster bombing campaign seems odd. Granted they control that area and supposedly a “major” offensive tonight - I guess we will know more after tonight - what we know as major and what Russian does as major may be two different things. I know I’m praying for Russian ineptitude. 

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

First day feels like Russia was just letting them know they were coming and giving civilians enough time to get out of the key areas.  No way they wouldn't take out airfields/airplanes sitting on tarmacs. That is either false info or doesn't matter since Ukraine just sits its plane in close configuration during foreign invasions to save on foreign bombs...

Putin also left the power grid operational. He could easily take it offline if he wanted to. Prayers for Ukraine citizens tonight, going to be long and sleepless.

It makes no sense though - if you have the weapons, you wreck shop the first day/night so that they are on their heels.  You don't give them space and time to get things going, and you don't give them opportunities that could motivate the Ukrainians and demoralize Russian troops.

And if you are spreading things out and taking your time, you are giving them a chance to see what your troops are capable of, and what tactics are working.

The power grid should have gone down across the entire country.  That's a huge thing to me.  If you want civilians to get the fuck out, you take out power (and by proxy water, etc.) and you put the civilians in a panic, and panic will clog all of the roads, including roads you need for reinforcements.

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msucolt45

msucolt45 4060

Posted
Posted
This is a TLDR, but I get to play semi-expert for a few minutes.  I was in the Army in the early 90s (after the first Gulf War), in field artillery and attached to infantry as an artillery scout (not a fucking cav scout, those guys are weird - [mention=281]RDCanecutter[/mention] will understand).  We scouted for everything up to and including MLRS (multiple launch rocket systems).  We scouted targets for units in the field and fed the info back to the artillery batteries who assigned targets and priorities to various systems.  I was out well before 2000, but what they have now, including drones, is amazing and damned near point-and-click in some cases (and would have reduced the need for guys like me), and I'm assuming the Russians got their hands on the same stuff.
The quick start of the ground war in Ukraine - this aspect is bugging me a lot.
My instructors and junior-level commanders had all been in during the 1980s (some late 1970s), and a large number were vets of the first Gulf War.  Some of the tactics/training were still reflecting 1980s European/Cold War battlefields - lots of mobility, either moving forward or falling back, but never able to linger in one place for very long - "shoot and scoot". But we also did a lot of combined-arms training based on lessons from the (first) Gulf War where we had time to plan targets, backup targets, and even more backup targets, and where our batteries had actual time to work their way through to backup targets and were working in conjunction with air superiority, and where we were using everything at our disposal, and where we could deploy well-coordinated artillery en masse.  Artillery is King of Battle after all.
In 1991 we had a million troops in the theater around Iraq, with 700,000 of them being American, and in 2003 we had around 250,000 coalition troops.  Putin is doing this with a much smaller force against a larger country with more people, and with much less preparation (attacking of targets), and his run-up to the ground invasion was short, but he still did a combined arms/full-on throw everything at them attack, just on a much smaller scale than Iraq in 1991 or 2003.
This is bugging me, because I can't figure out why there was so little run-up, and I've looked at the maps and units a bit and they are spread out fairly thin.  These are what I'm coming up with off the top of my head:
  1. The Russians simply don't have the supplies of rockets/missiles/bombs/arty/etc. that we did, as well as the logistics to back it up - it's like they have far less than 24 hours worth of such munitions.   The fact that they are invading with a fifth of the forces that we had in Iraq in 1991, and almost half of what we invaded Iraq in 2003 is interesting.  It feels like they've decided to sacrifice boots on the ground to make up the difference, but there's no way they are fielding more than say 50,000-60,000 or so actual infantry (not basically infantry, but actual infantry).  They did go through some very expensive upgrades after 2014 that could have sapped their budgets but I don't understand why they didn't wait another year for NS2 to be fully online for strategic reasons, and to have a full supply of everything they need armaments wise - maybe the Russian military is actually at the point where this is what they capable of fielding, which again, makes no sense, but could be scary for Putin.
  2. They are trying some kind of blitzkrieg-style invasion in the hopes of destroying a lot of major Ukrainian hardware, and then they are going to fall back and build up a large buffer zone around the territories they are claiming and force negotiations.  If they can hurt the Ukrainians enough, the Ukrainians won't have enough time to mount a concentrated effort to push them back out of the buffer zone while they secure/reinforce those zones. They get to claim those territories and they have a buffer zone around those territories that is fully linked.
I am just having a hard time seeing what's happening as capable of a full-on occupation of Ukraine, because if even a few areas of the ground assault get bogged down in the opening phase, what reserves can Putin have rushed in their to save their asses?  And the reserves/conscripts are nothing to write home about - many are doing their year and then they normally get out, and such young and inexperienced soldiers can quickly fuck around and find out.
TLDR: Putin's comments make me think he wants all of Ukraine, but the lack of sustained preparation (aerial/arty assault) and what he's put on the ground is just not capable of it.

AHB,

I was a FDS (13-P) for MLRS Batteries/Battalions from ‘89-95. We supported the 1st AD, out of Germany during Desert Storm. Many rockets were fired during DS, hence the nickname “Steel Rain!”

We might’ve crossed paths, you never know?

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troph

troph 24804

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:


Or it is a play to try to get Ukraine to tip their hand.

7-D chess, look like untrained dumbfucks to fool your opponent. Suffer losses, look like a laughing stock, show your real opponent you couldn’t possibly stand toe to toe with them then laugh all the way to the bank, oh wait, dose sanctions. Russia still has the upper hand but this is their lack of resources showing even if tonight is shock and awe. 

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Bodhi

Bodhi 1124

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, pops said:

I wouldn't fuck with a kitschko. Russia is fucked

Those two are going to be pretty big targets if they engage in any sort of combat with guns.  I think a lightweight like Lomachenko has a better chance.  You know, if he hadn't fled the country already.

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20950

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

I know zip about the current Russian Army. If it's at all like the WW2 Red Army (probably not) or even the 1980s version that I personally kept out of Kentucky (you're welcome) then for maintenance maybe imagine your mechanic without all the parts he needs, but the vodka will help him improvise. This analysis is all coming straight out of my head but I bet it's correct.

 

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troph

troph 24804

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

It makes no sense though - if you have the weapons, you wreck shop the first day/night so that they are on their heels.  You don't give them space and time to get things going, and you don't give them opportunities that could motivate the Ukrainians and demoralize Russian troops.

And if you are spreading things out and taking your time, you are giving them a chance to see what your troops are capable of, and what tactics are working.

The power grid should have gone down across the entire country.  That's a huge thing to me.  If you want civilians to get the fuck out, you take out power (and by proxy water, etc.) and you put the civilians in a panic, and panic will clog all of the roads, including roads you need for reinforcements.

I agree with you. It’s got to be a resource issue - from money to training to logistics maintenance other supply line issues and all of the stuff that makes or breaks a military that isn’t the actual weaponry.  It makes me hope for more Ukrainian success. I’m worried still but man I want to have hope for the good guys. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

JFC Russia. Yeah, lets blow this up again. 

 

Yeah, I know the prevailing wisdom among a lot of high-profile American leadership is that Putin is very, very smart.  Tremendously smart.  And I'm gonna assume something was lost in the chain of command orders here, but now thrice hitting that fucking waste station causes grossly harmful radioactive levels in Russia's own water table.  It's impossible Putin is this wantonly reckless.  I know there's some other angle here, but I mean---Occupation Forces 101...don't shit where you eat.  Occupation Forces 201...don't nuke where you drink.  

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Bevo

Bevo 13577

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13 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

It makes no sense though - if you have the weapons, you wreck shop the first day/night so that they are on their heels.  You don't give them space and time to get things going, and you don't give them opportunities that could motivate the Ukrainians and demoralize Russian troops.

And if you are spreading things out and taking your time, you are giving them a chance to see what your troops are capable of, and what tactics are working.

The power grid should have gone down across the entire country.  That's a huge thing to me.  If you want civilians to get the fuck out, you take out power (and by proxy water, etc.) and you put the civilians in a panic, and panic will clog all of the roads, including roads you need for reinforcements.

They want as many women and children and non-fighters to go West. Then it is a little easier to level the cities.

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Captainant

Captainant 27669

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1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

Just for reference - there are claims that the Russians in total, fired 160-180 missiles last night at Ukrainian targets.

The US Navy, just the US Navy, fired 288 Tomahawks during Desert Storm.

That's gotta be a significant portion of their stockpile right? That's about as many tubes as they have in ships at sea right now

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3606

Posted
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Cruise missile are expensive is all I can think of why he isn't using them.  I thought it was going to be a lot of Donbas and the shelling with artillery would happen.  That failed capture of the airport I think put a big reason on why it hasn't been tougher.   28 aircraft carries a lot of people and equipment.  I also think part of their strategy was to capture Ukrainian stuff and use it against them.  Then their helicopters were rendered ineffective.  Either the Russian army is way over rated or they are putting on a fucking show.  

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89671

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, BabaYaga said:
As stated, going to be interesting when the sun goes down.

And that's another thing - if they had night-vision gear for all of their ground forces, we should have already seen it. They should have been rolling all over northern and Eastern Ukraine at night after knocking out the power grid.

This whole thing just feels very disjointed.  They are struggling to accomplish what we did in 1991.  And we did it against an army that was much larger and better equipped (for the time).

It's possible we will see something bigger in the next 12 hours, but we should have seen something much larger/faster.

Still makes me think they are going to try and go down The River and then hold everything east of there and open negotiations. 

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pops

pops 6985

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Maybe Russia doesn't have nearly the assets we thought,  and more importantly,  maybe the rank and file Russian soldier doesn't give a fuck about putin or Ukraine. I mean most probably didn't grow up under soviet rule but their parents did and they have to be like what the fuck are we even doing. 

 

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8817

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Maybe Russia doesn't have nearly the assets we thought,  and more importantly,  maybe the rank and file Russian soldier doesn't give a fuck about putin or Ukraine. I mean most probably didn't grow up under soviet rule but their parents did and they have to be like what the fuck are we even doing. 
 

This is what I’m holding out for
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89671

Posted
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5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

They want as many women and children and non-fighters to go West. Then it is a little easier to level the cities.

Ryan Reynolds Reaction GIF

They don't care about killing women and children and the optics of leveled cities  The country has 40 million people, which means there will be plenty of women and children who don't make it out.  Once the world starts seeing corpses of little kids, it won't matter if it's 10 or 100.

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Homercles

Homercles 10205

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Posted
56 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Yeah, we were taught tactical wipes out an army.  Strategic wipes out a city.

Oh I get it…at least as far as this 41yo USAF brat who never served and flew a desk for 20 years can ‘get it’.  Just always fascinated me to think of how lines get blurred between tactical and strategic, when the definition itself depends on what you are targeting and not necessarily destructive power. 
 

I’d guess PAL didn’t really exist in the 60’s, so a dude on the front lines with a W54-tipped rocket, shell or backpack wouldn’t have to ‘worry’ about the President giving the ok…but if I launch a TLAM-N and it goes off course, decimating the middle of Stalingrad…was it really considered a tactical application of nuclear weapons?

That said…let’s NOT do that 

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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Posted
2 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

We’re still human. I think this is my biggest problem with idealists. The ones who want to end racism, or bullying, or misogyny, or a variety of characteristics they’ve deemed unfit. It doesn’t work that way. We are tribal at our core. Tribalism at its heart requires an other. The existence of the tribe will always be under threat from other tribes. We’re never getting around this fundamental aspect of human nature. While our brains are absolutely magical mechanisms, and we do have the ability to reprogram ourselves in ways no other species capable of doing, to try to reprogram id level wiring - which is what tribalism is - requires such a level of wholesale repression as a society you’d have to become the monster you’re trying to eradicate. 
 

If you study the history of mankind, or even just the relatively recent history of homo sapient, the number of genocidal events is astonishing. There’s a movement to vilify White males specifically, but this cuts across all boundaries of the species. Plenty of evidence of genocide in North, Central, and South America. Asia. The Polynesian Islands, particularly originating from New Zealand. Africa. And of course Europe, where one of the first round of settlers practiced widespread cannibalism, the Romans were famous for ruthlessly executing whole towns that held uprisings, and then plenty of others way more famous. 
 

There is an element in many of us that seeks power. One of the most compelling ways to gain that power is at the head of a tribe, appealing to the specialness of the tribe, while decrying enemies as lesser. When such a leader gains enough power, an inevitable conclusion is to wipe out the other in some way. History is a rinse and repeat of that. We’re not ever getting away from it. 
 

Now, I don’t think there’s any chance Ukraine becomes a genocide, mind you. Putin sees Ukrainians as full on Russian stock. But this idea we’re ever getting away from mortal combat in deciding which tribes get to continue to exist and which ones get wiped from history is a special kind of innocence a society can never afford to indulge. 

I think a lot of what you posted is true…of men.

I’d argue we wouldn’t see nearly as much bloodshed if women were in charge. 
 

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3606

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

And that's another thing - if they had night-vision gear for all of their ground forces, we should have already seen it. They should have been rolling all over northern and Eastern Ukraine at night after knocking out the power grid.

This whole thing just feels very disjointed.  They are struggling to accomplish what we did in 1991.  And we did it against an army that was much larger and better equipped (for the time).

It's possible we will see something bigger in the next 12 hours, but we should have seen something much larger/faster.

Still makes me think they are going to try and go down The River and then hold everything east of there and open negotiations. 

They dont have it from what I can tell.  It'd be attached already.

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