Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[GabrielsHorn 2186]

Where we sit tonight in terms of Russian controlled area. 
 

 

[texastough 1129]

3 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

You and others misunderstand what I'm saying but that's okay. I do incident investigations for a living. There is rarely ever one singular action that results in an event. That being said, ultimately Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine. That didn't just happen out of the blue, there are many other events that led to that, many other contributing factors. He didn't just wake up one morning and say, hey, let's go kill people in Ukraine. It isn't that simple, never has been, never will be.

Definitely a complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's

[crash_davis 23115]

got damn I step away for a few hours and you fuckers manage to fuck up the thread with bullshit bickering.

 

Re the order that Rubio was referencing, I saw a tweet a few hours ago, I can't remember here or on Twitter about Putin wanting Kyiv taken by Monday. The response he got was that it was going to cost a shitton of lives (I'm assuming Russian and civilians) and Putin's response was he didn't care. 

Sounds like he's a wounded animal which makes him even more dangerous. He's going to do whatever it takes to "win", although I don't think anyone probably including him knows what that means anymore.

[closetohumping 17461]

[GabrielsHorn 2186]

[Parliament 14291]

13 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

 

Aggy: "Championship rings all around!"

5 minutes ago, texastough said:

This seems to imply we can listen to Putin's orders to his commanders? Is that to fuck with his head because if we really can intercept those comms, why would we admit that? 

It's to fuck with his head.  The experts on this board believe putting Putin on blast with intel like this has made him change plans a few times.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Parliament

[The Ace of Aces 5194]

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Some of you mentioned that the intelligence community was keeping an eye on social media, OSINT, etc.  We all knew they were doing that, you'd be an idiot not to.

 

The Biden admin tasking Rubio to be its mouthpiece to get info out to our Allies and strategic partners is the strangest part of this entire thing. It makes me ponder what the US could be like before politics turned into a cultural war. 

[troph 24905]

1 hour ago, brakeman said:

oh and eat shit troph.

No need to say that, one I already said this morning I was wrong and two I explained my rationale which in hindsight was wrong. But you do you brakeman! You’re living the high life my man!  

[TwiceHorn 31534]

4 minutes ago, texastough said:

This seems to imply we can listen to Putin's orders to his commanders? Is that to fuck with his head because if we really can intercept those comms, why would we admit that? 

You kind of have to believe that we see an opening among the military commanders to put that on an open channel.  Not that twitter is the means for communicating that.  

[dcar00 14351]

5 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

This is one of the better posts in the last half day. I followed this stuff really closely in 2014 and Ukraine was a total cesspool. It was possibly more corrupt than Russia and I had no sympathy for the Ukrainians back then. The last thing in the world I would have wanted is for these people to have access to the button at the time it was the right thing to do. But somehow, some way, they managed to stabilize after basically 20 years of awful, awful governance and the last two or three years have been stellar.

It hasn't been long at all, since Ukraine has emerged as a real worthy recipient of the West's blessings. If you were to ask most people about zelensky even a week ago they may have rolled their eyes, especially at his seemingly casual dismissal of the invasion, and his chastising the US for hyping up the possibility. We now know that he was certainly playing all this like an ace gambler and knew exactly what he was doing. This guy looks to be a once in a half-century quality leader

As for getting the allies together, I think it also has to be said that there was still a lot of dissension in the ranks is little as two days ago (witness germany, italy, the checks, and Hungary), but once Europe began to see what a farce Russia was as recently as Thursday with the start of the invasion, they completely changed their tune and began to pour in assistance and defiance against Russia very quickly. I'm not sure that would've happened had Russia been more formidable.

I think we all know Ukraine was still an ex-soviet satellite with tons of corruption, like pretty much all of them.  we certainly didn't want them(or anyone) to have nukes in 1994.  we're just saying in hindsight they shouldn't have given them up.

as for the last part.  yep Germany and Italy are coming to the party only because it looks like Putin might be goatfucking this thing(long way to go though). 

I am shocked, shocked there is gambling going on in this establishment!

[GabrielsHorn 2186]

Both tweets are pretty interesting. Seems like there is recognition this only ends with Russia deposing Putin themselves so as to not start WWIII. 

[Message Board User 12396]

 

[crash_davis 23115]

 

[NoRagrets 1125]

19 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

Wonder what those orders are?

 

Oh shit

[The Dog 44138]

32 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

 

Marco talking shit is always a good sign.

[wd40 1976]

21 minutes ago, texastough said:

I've been catching up on this thread for the last couple hours and every time I found myself shaking my head at the dumb, it was one of your posts

some of you dipshits need to work on your manual ignore skills.   just enjoy the tits, skip the text, and keep scrolling.

[OU Sucks 8911]

15 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

You and others misunderstand what I'm saying but that's okay. I do incident investigations for a living. There is rarely ever one singular action that results in an event. That being said, ultimately Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine. That didn't just happen out of the blue, there are many other events that led to that, many other contributing factors. He didn't just wake up one morning and say, hey, let's go kill people in Ukraine. It isn't that simple, never has been, never will be.

Yes, he got bored with murdering his own people, so he decided to murder others.  The end.

[conVINCEd 21469]

17 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Could be tied to using these against cities - these are war crimes on tracks.

 

What do they need to take these things out well in advance of them getting to any city?  Could drones do the job?

[crash_davis 23115]

 

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

32 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

 

This goes to the Russian riot police column getting destroyed earlier today from arriving in theater with no support. I'm guessing no one told them new shit's come to light and the schedule has 'a few' changes.

[crash_davis 23115]

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19142]

19 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

You and others misunderstand what I'm saying but that's okay. I do incident investigations for a living. There is rarely ever one singular action that results in an event. That being said, ultimately Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine. That didn't just happen out of the blue, there are many other events that led to that, many other contributing factors. He didn't just wake up one morning and say, hey, let's go kill people in Ukraine. It isn't that simple, never has been, never will be.

No, he has believed that Ukraine isn't a real country and is just an extension of Russia for a long, long time.  He said just that to GWB in a summit when 43 was pres.  I mean, come on.  Putin has had a hard on to take back Ukraine into the fold for a long fucking time.  

[TwiceHorn 31534]

6 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

What do they need to take these things out well in advance of them getting to any city?  Could drones do the job?

Yeah, I suspect those are pretty easy to take out.  It's a T-72 tank chassis, but probably lacks full armor, but a hit by any significant ballistic projectile, probably even those AT rifles, above, on the launcher assembly means it's donezo.

The range is about 2.5  6 miles, max, so they're going to have to get em close.  We should pray to St. Javelin.

Edited February 27, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[troph 24905]

Went to the movies and came back eager for more info. Then I see this shitshow. What the fuck happened to this thread? 

[dcar00 14351]

33 minutes ago, PTINS said:

I throught one of the bridges UA took out was down there.  A little help?

maybe.  that last pic of territory taken that someone posted appeared to show a pretty big column coming from the east. possible that column if big enough could surround east and south Kiev.

[The Ace of Aces 5194]

24 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

You and others misunderstand what I'm saying but that's okay. I do incident investigations for a living. There is rarely ever one singular action that results in an event. That being said, ultimately Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine. That didn't just happen out of the blue, there are many other events that led to that, many other contributing factors. He didn't just wake up one morning and say, hey, let's go kill people in Ukraine. It isn't that simple, never has been, never will be.

He has tried this since at least 2014 (if you don’t think Putin was the instigator in that Ukrainian issue, you’re wrong). It probably would have happened sooner but Putin got lucky and was able to longcon and take Ukrainian earmarked military support money away and take it himself years ago. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by The Ace of Aces

[Gravy Train 974]

3 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

What do they need to take these things out well in advance of them getting to any city?  Could drones do the job?

St Javelin or NLAW works the same on those as it's done on the other blown up batteries.  Can't let them pop a round off first though.

[crash_davis 23115]

Still nothing on social media from Zelensky.

[F250 28817]

1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

Bash the corps of cadets all you want, but my Aggie corps grad is now, I believe with 99.9% certainty, commanding a platoon of combat medics dispensing medical and humanitarian aid at the Poland/Ukraine border.

If true I'm the proudest dad on Earth.

If the red herring explanation for his abrupt departure from CONUS earlier this week is true the the US Army is stupid.

Counterpoint.

 

[PTINS 3481]

2 hours ago, Longhornlove said:

I disagree, if intel has been spot on, why weren't weapons, supplies delivered ahead of the invasion? Why so reactive, why not be proactive? Maybe they were and that hasn't leaked but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Afghanistan: Our most recent history of sending/leaving a shit pot full of weapons to an unstable country. Didn't turn out so good.

Poland is well supplied. We supplement Poland, Poland supplies Ukraine. US not involved in Ukraine.

 

[Bevo 13598]

15 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

It hasn't been long at all, since Ukraine has emerged as a real worthy recipient of the West's blessings. If you were to ask most people about zelensky even a week ago they may have rolled their eyes, especially at his seemingly casual dismissal of the invasion, and his chastising the US for hyping up the possibility. We now know that he was certainly playing all this like an ace gambler and knew exactly what he was doing. This guy looks to be a once in a half-century quality leader

As for getting the allies together, I think it also has to be said that there was still a lot of dissension in the ranks is little as two days ago (witness germany, italy, the checks, and Hungary), but once Europe began to see what a farce Russia was as recently as Thursday with the start of the invasion, they completely changed their tune and began to pour in assistance and defiance against Russia very quickly. I'm not sure that would've happened had Russia been more formidable.

A lot of people were made to look good by sheer luck. We started arming the Ukraine in 2017/2018 with 210 Javelins and 37 launch units. Meanwhile, Germany still considered the Ukraine and its president a joke and cared more for oil and gas and price stability than it did for the Ukraine. And the US too was concerned about inflation and oil and gas prices during an election year. Once, the politicians got involved everyone wanted a piece of the pie and created little carve outs for their pet concerns. It wasn't until the Ukraine showed toughness and heart and people around the world rallied support that politicians changed their tune and offered help. Most of that help will be difficult to get to Kiev and will be impossible to get to eastern Ukraine any time soon, but if Kiev can hold out and there are enough forces remaining in the West, perhaps a quagmire can be established and bleed Russia into capitulation.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

59 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Fuck Germany. They are the absolute worst. 

We share more of our American culture with Germany and have more in common with Germans than the English since English manners are mostly derived from the Germanic Courts as their Royal line is in fact German. Somewhat ironic since today their directness is in contrast to the masterful English passive aggression. 

Germans were also the Royal leaders of Mexico and influenced a great deal of their culture as well.

Im not trying to tell you to like Germans, rather just pointing out that lots of people in the world view Americans the way we view Germans.

[BamaATL 16593]

9 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

 

If these are fired at all, I believe we have a moral imperative to act, if for nothing else to conduct air strikes to remove these weapons from the battlefield.  I hope NATO will make this decision, if they do not, I hope we will.  I know the potential consequences of this type of decision, but I believe that this is a bridge too far and we simply can't stand by without acting.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19142]

So no tweets from Zelensky in 8 hours.  Any news?

[conVINCEd 21469]

1 minute ago, BamaATL said:

If these are fired at all, I believe we have a moral imperative to act, if for nothing else to conduct air strikes to remove these weapons from the battlefield.  I hope NATO will make this decision, if they do not, I hope we will.  I know the potential consequences of this type of decision, but I believe that this is a bridge too far and we simply can't stand by without acting.  

I think we have a moral imperative to take them out before they are fired.

[Longhornlove 4883]

6 minutes ago, PTINS said:

Afghanistan: Our most recent history of sending/leaving a shit pot full of weapons to an unstable country. Didn't turn out so good.

Poland is well supplied. We supplement Poland, Poland supplies Ukraine. US not involved in Ukraine.

 

No argument from me on any of that.

[Dbeasy 15087]

5 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

We share more of our American culture with Germany and have more in common with Germans than the English since English manners are mostly derived from the Germanic Courts as their Royal line is in fact German. Somewhat ironic since today their directness is in contrast to the masterful English passive aggression. 

Germans were also the Royal leaders of Mexico and influenced a great deal of their culture as well.

Im not trying to tell you to like Germans, rather just pointing out that lots of people in the world view Americans the way we view Germans.

[StruggleBus 3922]

15 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

 

Does it matter if internal organs are crushed when the body is vaporized?

[MFEU93MK9S8IW6K6FV0X 95]

RAMBO.  Glory to heroes.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

1 minute ago, conVINCEd said:

I think we have a moral imperative to take them out before they are fired.

Tough call.

I am hopeful, though, that given the difficulty Russia has had getting vehicles where they need to be, that these can be taken out by the Ukrainians.  They're relatively slow and lightly/unarmored.

[bernorange 8363]

53 minutes ago, Longhornlove said:

That's part of my point, we gave them assurances that we would protect them.

You really should read the text of the Budapest Memorandum (it's less than a page).  We never promised military protection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

Our only real obligation under the agreement is listed in point #4.

[FartingMonk 3608]

Well this thread just jumped the shark.  I'm out.  

[BamaATL 16593]

2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

I think we have a moral imperative to take them out before they are fired.

Honestly, you would get no argument from me.  This is a gross act of behavior even having these in the field of battle.  These are by definition indiscriminate weapons of war.  

[elfenix 34332]

36 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Could be tied to using these against cities - these are war crimes on tracks.

 

it's like some shit out of Red Alert. 

forget building tesla towers, soviet rocket flamethrower rush is the best strategy

[Gravy Train 974]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Tough call.

I am hopeful, though, that given the difficulty Russia has had getting vehicles where they need to be, that these can be taken out by the Ukrainians.  They're relatively slow and lightly/unarmored.

They're not precision-guided and have an effective range of 30km or less.  There are a ton of bridges for them to cross before they can enter a population center like Kyiv

[GreenspointTexas 9664]

1 minute ago, elfenix said:

it's like some shit out of Red Alert. 

forget building tesla towers, soviet rocket flamethrower rush is the best strategy

Yup. This conflict def feels more like Yuri’s revenge and less like Risk

[crash_davis 23115]

 

[Ted Lange 16121]

1 minute ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Yup. This conflict def feels more like Yuri’s revenge and less like Risk

Wish it was more like Age of Empires, I wanna see those War Elephants!

[Bevo 13598]

This is a pretty interesting article from last year: https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/18/white-house-ukraine-military-lethal-weapons-495169

White House freezes Ukraine military package that includes lethal weapons

Officials prepped $100 million worth of arms as Russia massed troops on the border, then put it on pause as the Biden-Putin summit approached.

 

Pictured is a closer view of equipment at Pogonovo training area in Voronezh, Russia. | Satellite image ©2021 Maxar Technologies

By BETSY WOODRUFF SWAN and PAUL MCLEARY

06/18/2021 01:00 PM EDT

Updated: 06/18/2021 06:53 PM EDT

 

 

The Biden White House has temporarily halted a military aid package to Ukraine that would include lethal weapons, a plan originally made in response to aggressive Russian troop movements along Ukraine’s border this spring.

The aid package would be worth up to $100 million, according to four people familiar with internal deliberations.

 

The National Security Council directed officials to put the package together, as Washington grew increasingly concerned over a massive Russian military buildup near the border with Ukraine and in the Crimean Peninsula, according to three of the people, who like the others asked not to be named in order to speak candidly about internal discussions. Officials at the State Department and Pentagon worked to assemble the proposal.

 

But officials on the National Security Council ended up putting the proposal on hold after Russia announced it would draw down troops stationed near Ukraine and in the lead-up to President Joe Biden’s high-stakes summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

One of the sources said the package is still intact, and could be sent to Ukraine quickly. The Washington Post first reported that the administration considered and has now frozen the package. The fact that National Security Council officials froze the aid and the specific weapons discussed for inclusion in the aid package have not been previously reported.

Key items under consideration for the package include short-range air defense systems, small arms and more anti-tank weapons, according to two people with knowledge of the discussions.

In a statement after this article was published, White House press secretary Jen Psaki took issue with the characterization that aid to Ukraine was lacking: "The idea that we have held back security assistance to Ukraine is nonsense. Just last week—in the run-up to the U.S.-Russia Summit—we provided a $150 million package of security assistance, including lethal assistance."

 

 

The White House statement also acknowledged that additional security assistance had been made ready, but would be contingent upon Russia crossing territorial red lines: "We have also prepared contingency funds in the event of a further Russian incursion into Ukraine. As President Biden told President Putin directly, we will stand unwavering in support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity."

Since Russia’s 2014 invasion of Ukraine and annexation of Crimea, the United States has provided some $2.5 billion in military aid to Kyiv, including unarmed drones, radios and Javelin anti-tank missiles.

The latest proposal came about after Russia staged more than 100,000 troops, along with rocket battalions and heavy armor units, near Ukraine’s border this spring, according to estimates. In late April, Russia’s defense ministry announced that it would begin withdrawing some of the troops.

Past discussions over lethal military aid to Ukraine have been politically fraught, given concern over provoking Russia, issues with training the Ukrainian forces themselves and ongoing uneasiness over corruption in the Ukrainian government and military.

But despite Russia’s announcement, a top Ukrainian official said in May that about 100,000 Russian troops were still near its border and in Crimea, Al Jazeera reported. That same month, Biden officials told The New York Times that the number was closer to 80,000.

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced in May that Moscow was in the process of building 20 new military units to base in Western Russia, close to the Ukrainian border over the next year, though he was vague on specifics.

 

Satellite imagery captured by Maxar in May and June of this year shows that hundreds of trucks and other heavy equipment remains staged in newly constructed makeshift bases in Western Russia and at a major training range in Crimea.

“The reason they left those units is because they said that they intend to use them in Zapad 2021,” a large military exercise Russia holds every several years with Belarus involving tens of thousands of troops, said Michael Kofman, director of Russian studies at CNA. Moscow had already transported heavy armor, rocket units and other equipment from their home bases in Central Russia, “and they didn’t want to drag them back. That was their argument, and we'll see,” Kofman added. The last Zapad exercise was held in 2017, and the next one is set for September.

The photos show fully stocked motor pools near the town of Voronezh in Western Russia and the Opuk Training Center in Crimea.

Pictured is a closer view of equipment at Opuk training area in Crimea, Ukraine. | Satellite image ©2021 Maxar Technologies

The rapid buildup alarmed the Biden administration and European allies, as the scale of the Russian maneuvers — heavy armor, reserve troops, a field hospital and kitchens shipped from bases hundreds of miles away — gave the impression of a force primed and ready to conduct extended operations. The buildup was larger than what was seen during the 2014 invasion of Ukraine.

 

 

The vehicles and equipment near the city of Voronezh belong in part to the 41st Combined Arms Army, a modernized unit that includes mobile infantry units, rocket brigades and heavy artillery units.

Kofman said the area around the border has been staffed by units with “pretty high levels of readiness and a lot more modernized equipment” than had been stationed there in previous years.

American aid to Ukraine has drawn intense scrutiny in the past. In 2019, Trump moved to block the delivery of lethal aid to Ukraine as part of an effort to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to announce an investigation connected to Biden’s son. Zelensky made no such announcement, and the hold-up triggered the first impeachment of Trump. At the time, congressional Democrats were vociferous about the importance of the U.S. providing support to the war-weary country.

The Pentagon has approved two aid packages to Ukraine this year alone, totaling $275 million. The first, in March, added two more armed Mark VI patrol boats to the Ukrainian fleet, part of a larger, $600 million deal for 16 of the boats signed in 2020.

The package included 32 Seahawk A2 gun systems and dozens of 30mm cannons for the shallow-water boats, which gives them offensive power.

In June, another $150 million congressionally mandated package was approved. It does not appear to include any lethal aid, but instead will ship several radar systems designed to track incoming artillery rounds and drones, which have played a large role in the fighting in Eastern Ukraine over the past several years.

 

Despite the military aid and the presence of NATO troops in the country to train Ukrainian military units, Kyiv likely has a long road ahead before it can join the transatlantic alliance.

But the positive noises the alliance makes can sometimes lead to awkward moments.

During the NATO summit on Monday, Zelensky tweeted that NATO leaders had “confirmed” his country would become a member, reading boilerplate language in the annual communique as a confirmation of his country’s status.

Asked about the country’s admission status, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg pumped the brakes in a Tuesday news conference. “Ukraine is an aspirant country,” Stoltenberg said. “We provide support to them, especially to continue to modernize and refine their defense and security institutions, civilian-political control over their security services, and not least fighting corruption.”

Biden also stuck to the traditional NATO line during his own press conference after the summit, saying the U.S. would “do all that we can to put Ukraine in the position to be able to continue to resist Russian physical aggression.”

[TwiceHorn 31534]

1 minute ago, Gravy Train said:

They're not precision-guided and have an effective range of 30km or less.  There are a ton of bridges for them to cross before they can enter a population center like Kyiv

Six miles for the latest variant, according to Wiki.  They're fucking hideous though and if deployed on a city full of civilians, like atomheart said, a mobile war crime.