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Eastwood

By Eastwood
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AUS-97HORN
AUS-97HORN

For the love of Christ woman,  stop posting the same fucking thing every 20 mins just to make your neurotic self feel better.     Bring something useful to the thread other than your inane babbli

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InkaUtexas
InkaUtexas

I volunteered today. Log/Admin role to replace people for 30-60 days. The operation is in the west, or should the Orcs win will be pulled back behind the NATO wall. Either way the humanitarian effort

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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Here is a good story about the propaganda war and how Ukraine is running a Trans-Siberian Express on Russia in it right now.

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How Russia lost its footing in the propaganda war against Ukraine

Nazis, cats, and Russia and Ukraine's fierce information war

When Russian President Vladimir Putin gave the order to invade Ukraine, most analysts expected a quick conquest by Russia's vastly superior military forces. That didn't happen on the ground. Equally surprising, "Ukraine is winning the information war, hands down," Graham Shellenberger, a propaganda expert at Miburo Solutions consultancy, told Fox News.

The information war — or propaganda war — has been especially important in shaping how dramatically Ukraine and the world have responded to Russia's invasion. Russia has been sharpening its disinformation skills at least since the Bolsheviks seized control in 1917. Under Putin — a former intelligence officer — the Kremlin has fostered effective, widely feared cyber-ops capabilities.

Nevertheless, "Russian propaganda is tanking, but Ukraine has been hitting home runs for a week now," writes Ian Garner, a Russia historian who has followed Russian-language propaganda during the conflict. Every day "I'm more convinced than before that Putin's regime has totally overestimated its ability to win a propaganda war."

 

 

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What is Ukraine's message?
If Russia is trying to sell the idea of liberating Ukraine from mythical Nazis, Ukraine is comparing Putin's invasion to Adolf Hitler's massacres of Ukrainians in World War II. But more than anything, "Ukraine's online propaganda is largely focused on its heroes and martyrs, characters who help dramatize tales of Ukrainian fortitude and Russian aggression," The New York Times reports.

"If Ukraine had no messages of the righteousness of its cause, the popularity of its cause, the valor of its heroes, the suffering of its populace, then it would lose," Peter Singer, a strategist at the New America think tank, told the Times. "Not just the information war, but it would lose the overall war."

Kyiv is pushing out stories of Ukrainian heroes and martyrs, Russian brutality against civilians, and civil resistance, Singer writes. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has "set the new standard" as a "Man of the People," winning over both Ukrainians and foreign leaders by communicating from the streets and bunkers of the besieged capital. And the Ukrainians have been very effective at "humanizing" the war, he adds. "This is where the cat is the most lethal weapon of information warfare."

The cat?

I somehow missed the "Panther of Kharkiv": 

Image

 

I don't know if that was even a serious effort but there is an element of absurdist humor to some of the Ukrainian propaganda that does make it better than the standard fare "Russians bayonet babies and gang rape virgins and we are golden hearted heroes" stuff. This might be the funniest send-up of wartime propaganda I've ever seen and it's amazing that it was created about a city literally under siege in a country under invasion. F- for truth, A+++++++ for a propaganda win.

It also explains my puzzlement of why RT is so weirdly terrible compared to the Ukrainian stuff:

Quote

Russia has also hamstrung itself by sticking to its lie about a limited "special military operation." The Ukrainians "are posting evidence of their combat successes," but Russia is not, says Michael Kofman, a military analyst at the CNA think tank. "In a desperate effort to keep the war hidden from the Russian public, framing this as a Donbas operation, Moscow has completely ceded the information environment to Ukraine." Pro-Kremlin state broadcasters are stuck "trying to talk about a war that is apparently not happening," Ian Garner tells the Times. 

And

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To a large extent, Russia is fighting the last information war. Western governments and social media companies have spent much of the last decade battling Russian disinformation campaigns, and Russia so far hasn't produced many new tricks. 

What we're seeing from Russia is "a stagnant propaganda machine that knows how to create chaos and tear things — especially the West — down," Garner writes. "But it's the propaganda machine of an empire. It's not agile, and it doesn't know how to respond to current events and the strong Ukrainian and Western efforts." Meanwhile, Russians are seeing "their peers and idols" bypass state TV and explain what's going on, in Russia, on social media, he adds.

"Most of Russia's propaganda and disinformation about Ukraine for the last eight years, but certainly in the last couple of months, is focused on the Russian domestic population," Graham Shellenberger tells Fox News. "That is their No. 1 target." But instead of trying to connect with Russians and prepare them for the pain to come, the Kremlin "narrative looks more like WWI — a detached imperial tsar directing his troops in an abstract war against imperial opposition," Garner writes. And not "even the most war-hungry Russians are buying into Putin's WW2 cosplay dreams."

 

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

Posted
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1 minute ago, Bevo said:

Russia Recruiting Syrians for Urban Combat in Ukraine, U.S. Officials Say

Moscow is looking for help from foreign fighters to take cities including Kyiv

 
 
im-499210?width=860&height=573

How is he going to pay them?

Diamonds ,he has lots of them

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22060

Posted
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1 minute ago, BamaATL said:

Diamonds ,he has lots of them

I'm up for an Ocean's 11 heist. Despite my limited brain matter, I am fabulous at distraction. LOL

Also, and this is not meant to insult posters who are bothered by/upset by (not sure what is the right word) about Ukraine using any type of propaganda right now. I don't think they are exaggerating the children killed. Zelenskyy's wife posted pictures of the 28 children killed in this horrible invasion perpetrated by that POS Putin. I would use everything I had to my advantage.

I don't think they are exaggerating firing at civilians trying to flee. I am sure there are exaggerations and while I don't care for it (as disinformation can absolutely be found out and quickly with so many reporting on the ground there) I understand why.

EVERY government uses propaganda. Every single SoTU address is propaganda to a degree. Every local state and federal government of the United States has used it. Every organization uses it. I think there are people though who are irritated that the Ukrainians are getting so much press and so much support globally while their own personal causes are not. Sorry that those causes are not getting or will never get the same attention or captivate the attention of the globe in the way that the Ukrainians and their leader have. That is the truth. And I can't change it but being pissed off at Ukrainians pleading for NATO to protect their skies and using SM to try and get what they want as well as aircraft isn't something I am upset about. I ask myself why people are so bothered by it. 

Being part Jewish I am incensed by all the Nazi rhetoric that is out there and the Bullshit about it coming from Putin et al as to justify their invasion (one of many false and bullshit reasons.) 

Shaun Walker: Covering central/eastern Europe for The Guardian. Author of The Long Hangover: Putin's New Russia and the Ghosts of the Past. shaun.walker@theguardian.com:

 

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20949

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MillerEP said:

Killed a family of 4.

The dad was the only one with a pulse, saw a picture where they were trying to save him. If that’s me lying there next to my dead family, don’t worry about it.

Edited by Celery Man
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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26443

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I call bullshit on the Syrian mercenary thing. The Syrians that the Russians have been helping are not the Allahu Akbar fanatic types. If they crave adrenalin rushes, there's still plenty of danger right over the rise in Syria. How do Syrians get to Russia in the first place? Seems like the Turks might have something to say about that. As for pay, I guess Putin could offer bars of gold. But surely there are psychotic paint-huffing killers already in Russia who'd go do dirty work in Ukraine for a bar of gold.

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Chopper

Chopper 17235

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from the Wa Post military beat reporter

 
"We’ve observed limited changes on the ground over the past day. Russian forces continued efforts to advance and isolate Kyiv, Kharkhiv and Chernihiv across the north and east are being met with strong Ukrainian resistance."
 
"There does not appear to be any significant movement along the Russian axes. Leading elements remain outside these city centers. We cannot give specific distances today. "The convoy continues to be stalled."
 
"We assess that the Russians have now committed inside Ukraine somewhere near 95% of the combat power they had amassed along the border."
 
"We’ve observed fighting in the south near Kherson and Mykolaiv. We cannot independently verify reporting of Russian forces firing on protesters in Kherson."
 
"We have not observed an amphibious invasion in or near Odessa, nor do we assess that one is imminent. "We’ve observed continued ongoing fighting and efforts to encircle Mariupol. There continue to be reports of wide-spread utility outages (water and electricity)."
 
Senior U.S. defense official: "In the airspace, we continue to observe that the airspace over Ukraine is contested. Ukrainian air and missile defenses remain effective and in use. The Ukrainian military continues to fly aircraft and to employ air defense assets."
 
"Both sides have taken losses to both aircraft and missile defense inventories," senior U.S. defense official says. "We are not going to speak to numbers. We assess that both sides still possess a majority of their air defense systems and capabilities."
 
"This update in text form came instead of background briefings. It is not online, but you've now seen what I'm seeing. Would anticipate backgrounders return tomorrow (Monday)."
 
 
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HOOKEM4

HOOKEM4 5037

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Elephant in the room....when do we push back harder against pootin? Sanctions and let Ukraine die as fodder. We think the sanctions will prevent future blood letting? I am not wanting all out nuclear war but at what point do we say, enough is enough?

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

Posted
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1 minute ago, HOOKEM4 said:

Elephant in the room....when do we push back harder against pootin? Sanctions and let Ukraine die as fodder. We think the sanctions will prevent future blood letting? I am not wanting all out nuclear war but at what point do we say, enough is enough?

We've made about as big a push as we can, we've ground his economy to dust.  The only thing left is to get them pulled from the IMF, and to embargo the oil and gas.  Beyond that, any other military action save supplying weapons to the Ukrainians puts us in a shooting war/direct confrontation (WW3) with them.  As terrible as what is going on in Ukraine, we can do no more.  

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14920

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Propaganda works. 
 

Quote

“I have a feel­ing that some­one is try­ing to pro­voke Rus­sia,” said Ms. Bukhteyeva, who is study­ing to be an el­e­men­tary school teacher. “I don’t un­der­stand who this would be good for, but I feel like it would be good for Amer­ica.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-says-the-west-is-goading-russia-into-warwithukraineand-many-russians-agree-11644316200

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ShaggyBevo RIP

ShaggyBevo RIP 3868

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

So I'm gonna ask all the pro no fly zone people.  Who does it affect?  Who loses more? And why?

There was a really good breakdown by one of the retired US military guys about how a NFZ means you have to take out all anti aircraft assets that can hit your aircraft. Which means you have take out stuff in Belarus and Russia which means it is WWIII.

Edited by ShaggyBevo RIP
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Deej

Deej 76791

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Just now, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

There was a really good breakdown by one of the retired US military guys about a NFZ means you have to take out all anti aircraft assets that can hit your aircraft. Which means you have take out stuff in Belarus and Russia which means it is WWIII.

C'mon. People on this thread can't even remember what has been posted hours ago. You can't expect them to understand shit like that. 

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Shaddie

Shaddie 1651

Posted
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1 minute ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

There was a really good breakdown by one of the retired US military guys about what a NFZ means you have to take out all anti aircraft assets that can hit your aircraft. Which means you have take out stuff in Belarus and Russia which means it is WWIII.

It has been said a 100 times already and monk keeps “asking questions”. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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For those still talking about No Fly Zones, think of it like this.

In modern warfare, any given country's ground, waterways, and airspace are the exact same thing. 

To establish a no-fly zone, you must send in warplanes to another country's airspace with hostile intent and almost always lethal effect.

This is exactly the same as a land invasion or a naval bombardment from another country's coastal waters. Exactly the same. There is nothing magic about the sky. And if we -- Americans or NATO or fucking Chad -- tries to establish an NFZ over Ukraine, that country would be at war with Russia. If that's what you want, fine: there are two threads about nuclear war you can go post in.

I wish I didn't have to point this out again 327 pages into this thread after so many others have already done so more eloquently than me, but as they say, No Fly Zone Talk Not Going Away.

 

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FartingMonk

FartingMonk 3606

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Posted
1 minute ago, Shaddie said:

It has been said a 100 times already and monk keeps “asking questions”. 

The problem is I want the no fly zone talk to go away.  I know how a NFZ works. I know what it takes to work.  But it keeps getting brought up because their are people thinking we let Ukranians roam.the sky with their donated MIGs just taking out Russian targets at their leisure while our F22s clear a path for them and our KC135 refuel them.  

 

 

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gmr548

gmr548 16580

Posted
Posted
Elephant in the room....when do we push back harder against pootin? Sanctions and let Ukraine die as fodder. We think the sanctions will prevent future blood letting? I am not wanting all out nuclear war but at what point do we say, enough is enough?

If the western governments perceive the impact of oil & gas sanctions to be worth the domestic blowback that will come from the corresponding price increases, they will follow through with that. It’s the main economic card left and probably the biggest single one at that. It’s why Russia is now trying to scuttle the renegotiation of the Iran nuclear deal.

As to your last sentence, I mean, no one wants nuclear war. Unfortunately that’s not something completely within the US government’s control, and you don’t start crossing pre-established lines that raise that risk in a very significant way. I understand your intentions are good but there really is no middle ground here; or rather, we’re already in it. Beyond the current approach, you’re in direct conflict with the world’s largest nuclear arsenal over a nation you don’t even have a treaty obligation to defend.





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BamaATL

BamaATL 16593

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Watching Bloomberg Asian day break, In other economic good news for us bad news for them.  Russia will default on its bonds at the end of the month.  Moody's has already moved them into junk status.  This will make them unable to issue bonds and raise capital on foreign markets for a long time.

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14920

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Posted
2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:


If the western governments perceive the impact of oil & gas sanctions to be worth the domestic blowback that will come from the corresponding price increases, they will follow through with that. It’s the main economic card left and probably the biggest single one at that. It’s why Russia is now trying to scuttle the renegotiation of the Iran nuclear deal.

As to your last sentence, I mean, no one wants nuclear war. Unfortunately that’s not something completely within the US government’s control, and you don’t start crossing pre-established lines that raise that risk in a very significant way. I understand your intentions are good but there really is no middle ground here; or rather, we’re already in it. Beyond the current approach, you’re in direct conflict with the world’s largest nuclear arsenal over a nation you don’t even have a treaty obligation to defend.




 

Or you get every diplomat to the table and try to negotiate an end to the fighting.

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