Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[SL Xpress 7518]

9 minutes ago, BachelorTrek said:

Author took no time to EAT CROW as he should have for being so catastrophically wrong and for even making excuses for Chekist-boy.

I am Disappoint.

Read like an honest appraisal to me. He’s hardly alone. Russia was basically a criminal country where the state had very little real power. As the writer states, Putin stabilized the country. The writer makes it clear there was a frog in boiling water aspect to it, and he clearly states he was wrong the whole time. Writing an opinion piece in The Atlantic feels like a pretty big mea culpa to me, but suit yourself. 

[BachelorTrek 3061]

Just now, SL Xpress said:

Read like an honest appraisal to me. He’s hardly alone. Russia was basically a criminal country where the state had very little real power. As the writer states, Putin stabilized the country. The writer makes it clear there was a frog in boiling water aspect to it, and he clearly states he was wrong the whole time. Writing an opinion piece in The Atlantic feels like a pretty big mea culpa to me, but suit yourself. 

I don't know what you read, but he didn't, and you're wrong. Carry on.

[Dahobbs 17680]

1 minute ago, BachelorTrek said:

I don't know what you read, but he didn't, and you're wrong. Carry on.

What the fuck did you read? That's exactly what he did. 

I mean, fuck, the title of the article is "I Was Wrong About Putin" and the subtitle "When U.S. intelligence started saying that Russia would invade Ukraine, I didn’t believe it."

And the last two paragraphs:

Quote

 

That’s what I kept telling myself right up until the night of February 24. At about 4 a.m., I switched on my smartphone and immediately saw dozens of videos of Russian rocket blasts all over Ukraine. These blasts were proof of Putin’s evil and his irrationality. Putin had brought our country to hell, just as Arsenyev had foretold, and he was bringing Ukraine to hell too.

Arsenyev died in 2010. I’m almost glad he didn’t live to see how right he was.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Dahobbs

[Buzzrock 14937]

1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

Krispy Kreme would like a word. It was fucking bonkers.

We just got our first Shake Shack. Should have named it Shit Show. 

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

46 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Dude def does not check. Prolly has Clear and Global Entry like a boss. 

I was on a flight with an 80+ year old Lou Holtz, never seen anyone in first class get a bag out of overhead and be first in line to exit like that and he was in the fourth or fifth row.

[Shaddie 1651]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Gotta wonder how many low income Russians are out of work with all the international companies closing down. 

 

Thank god. My 2 day boycott of coke products was killing me. 

[Guest Lobo]

No Russian Coke?  My god, the jokes we could make and get us all killed.  

[Foosters 17885]

31 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

This is a really good article. I wrote a paper about Putin back in 2002. I thought much the same as the author of that article. Putin was a stern hand, but Russia at that time needed a stern hand. It was a fractured country with the government lacking significant control and power. Putin appeared, to me, to be fixing those problems. And for a time, it that really appeared to be the case. Unfortunately, all his fixing was ultimately for his own benefit and not for Russian people. 

I did too! Modern European History AP. Predicted Putin would open the country, and usher Russia into the 21st century as Western-allied superpower.

Whoops

[FartingMonk 3608]

Just be glad it ain't Chinese coke.  A source who I've known since elementary school told me there was pee pee in it.

[Doug E. Fresh 452]

3 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

I've always wondered what would happen to a legend if they just decided to keep playing forever. Jagr is showing they're just trash up a lower level with their insane skills. I wanna see a 50 year old LeBron in the G-League.

He did, his name was Gordie Howe. Retired at 52

[Sbbruin 21867]

1 minute ago, Doug E. Fresh said:

He did, his name was Gordie Howe. Retired at 52

[FartingMonk 3608]

1 minute ago, Foosters said:

I did too! Modern European History AP. Predicted Putin would open the country, and usher Russia into the 21st century as Western-allied superpower.

Whoops

Haha.  I may have done the same thing.  Said he was more about engagement and his seizing of oligarch wealth was necessary because it belonged to the Russians.  And for it to go back into the sovereign investment fund would lead to a pro western Russia.  Then he kept the money. And that's when I knew I was wrong.  Oh so wrong...

[Guest Lobo]

Minnie Minoso tells y'all to "Chupanme mi viejo saco"  

[conVINCEd 21469]

Just now, Lobo said:

Minnie Minoso tells y'all to "Chupanme mi viejo saco"  

Satchel Paige would like a word.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

So I was listening the General Honore’ last night and he was saying we should not be publicizing our moves with Ukraine with regards to assistance. He was like, “Putin doesn’t play by the rules and neither should we. Just get the Ukrainians what they need to win. Putin uses little green men and cheats at every opportunity. The Ukrainians can’t lose simply because we are hamstringing ourselves. Politicians need to stop worrying about taking credit.” 

Makes me look at the reports about the Poland Migs with some skepticism. 

[InkaUtexas 26093]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So I was listening the General Honore’ last night and he was saying we should not be publicizing our moves with Ukraine with regards to assistance. He was like, “Putin doesn’t play by the rules and neither should we. Just get the Ukrainians what they need to win. Putin uses little green men and cheats at every opportunity. The Ukrainians can’t lose simply because we are hamstringing ourselves. Politicians need to stop worrying about taking credit.” 

Makes me look at the reports about the Poland Migs with some skepticism. 

You? Skeptical? Never! 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

2 hours ago, Lobo said:

If you are uncomfortable with what the Germans are going to do to Russian troops in between now and end of the calendar year, you may want to steel yourself.  We are making lists of those who enabled Putin and it won't be Russia who starts WWIII, it'll be Deutschland.  All we needed was an embroidered invitation.  We are gonna fucking rock the shit out of this next one...

[FartingMonk 3608]

There is a better chance of me going there and ended the war by releasing a deadly biological attack than the Polish MIGs ending up in Ukranian hands.  It's a pipe dream.  

So the Poles send it to Ramstein and then what?  We arm it and give it to Ukranian pilots?  Fly it through German airspace? And then let them fly back to Ramstein?  Like get the fuck out of here.

If this doesn't get the Russians to declare war on NATO then it gets them to shut off German oil really fucking fast.

 

[Bevo 13600]

22 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

I was on a flight with an 80+ year old Lou Holtz, never seen anyone in first class get a bag out of overhead and be first in line to exit like that and he was in the fourth or fifth row.

Now, that is a near perfect humble brag. Well done.

[Eastwood 4394]

Haha.  I may have done the same thing.  Said he was more about engagement and his seizing of oligarch wealth was necessary because it belonged to the Russians.  And for it to go back into the sovereign investment fund would lead to a pro western Russia.  Then he kept the money. And that's when I knew I was wrong.  Oh so wrong...

I mentioned it before, but I wrote my paper in 2010 and predicted he would be the first super power dictator since Hitler. What a difference less than a decade makes.

[SizzleChest 8284]

26 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

I was on a flight with an 80+ year old Lou Holtz, never seen anyone in first class get a bag out of overhead and be first in line to exit like that and he was in the fourth or fifth row.

He probably needed to make toilet real bad.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

If this doesn't get the Russians to declare war on NATO then it gets them to shut off German oil really fucking fast.

Both those moves seem like bad ideas for Russia.  

[BachelorTrek 3061]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What the fuck did you read? That's exactly what he did. 

I mean, fuck, the title of the article is "I Was Wrong About Putin" and the subtitle "When U.S. intelligence started saying that Russia would invade Ukraine, I didn’t believe it."

And the last two paragraphs:

 

It's a disingenuous apology, it's CYA, he's not really sorry, he's just sorry he was wrong only up to the absolute bitter-end, and only then once the war started, and got caught.  Like you, who didn't identify that subtlety. 

Author still believes he was correct the entire time looking back on it, when he made excuses for Putin.

"And I admit that even I continued to make excuses for Putin long after doing so was reasonable. For instance, I condemned the 2014 annexation of Crimea even as I indulged in whataboutism, pointing out that Putin was hardly the only leader on the world stage to disrespect national boundaries. Perhaps because of my math-and-science background, I had a tendency to coldheartedly look for rational explanations for outrageous behavior. In fact, my last illusion about Putin was that he was a rational actor." 

---So  he's saying, "I condemned him, but not really. So yeah, I apologize, but not really I apologize because I kept rationalizing it." This guy has issues. Weird.

The only reason he admits what he claims to be an apology, is because he really didn't change what caused him to evaluate Putin in this way. Nothing has changed for the author -- he was forced into the apology because of the war, but only when it was inescapable.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

 

[Parliament 14292]

51 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Fuck the goddamn Saudis. 

1234

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

26 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

I was on a flight with an 80+ year old Lou Holtz, never seen anyone in first class get a bag out of overhead and be first in line to exit like that and he was in the fourth or fifth row.

You obviously have not sat next to Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee on a plane. That’s SOP. 

[Nicole44 22077]

21 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

So I was listening the General Honore’ last night and he was saying we should not be publicizing our moves with Ukraine with regards to assistance. He was like, “Putin doesn’t play by the rules and neither should we. Just get the Ukrainians what they need to win. Putin uses little green men and cheats at every opportunity. The Ukrainians can’t lose simply because we are hamstringing ourselves. Politicians need to stop worrying about taking credit.” 

Makes me look at the reports about the Poland Migs with some skepticism. 

Given some of the weapons I have seen promised on Twitter (assuming it can be verified) I think we (NATO and other countries sending aid) announce said aid long after its been sent. No explanation I can see for some of the weapons already in use by Ukrainians in various videos on Twitter. 

[Nicole44 22077]

9 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

I think surly should adopt Ukraine as a country. These people are just beyond awesome. We're not...but that's ok. 

[atomheartbevo 89788]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I still think the stuff up in Kyiv is a diversion for the real shit down on the Black Sea. Russia wants to land lock Ukraine.

It's been many pages, but there was a good YouTube video from an O&G person showing all of Ukraine's offshore deposits, and Russia taking Crimea really ate into them, and if Russia can take more coastal land, they can prevent Ukraine from growing its O&G industry, which both protects Russia's O&G industry, but also makes the oligarchs/Russia's O&G industry richer.  If Ukraine had been able to grow that industry, they would have been competing with Russia for the European market.

While Putin may believe that this is some kind of legacy bullshit in his mind, I have a feeling he was selling the oligarchs on the O&G stuff, because it was substantial.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Somehow giving Ukraine a few dozen jets is MORE provocative than collapsing the entire Russian economy.  Make it make sense. 

[Nicole44 22077]

14 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Yep.  Seemed like it was born to do it.  And goddamn, for anything without armor.....it would do it.  Those Isuzu Troopers the Russians are sending to the front line are as good as fucked.

I hope they don't waste any weaponry on the Suzuki Sidekicks since they are just going to flip over on their own.

[SL Xpress 7518]

2 minutes ago, BachelorTrek said:

It's a disingenuous apology, it's CYA, he's not really sorry, he's just sorry he was wrong only up to the absolute bitter-end, and only then once the war started, and got caught.  Like you, who didn't identify that subtlety. 

Author still believes he was correct the entire time looking back on it, when he made excuses for Putin.

"And I admit that even I continued to make excuses for Putin long after doing so was reasonable. For instance, I condemned the 2014 annexation of Crimea even as I indulged in whataboutism, pointing out that Putin was hardly the only leader on the world stage to disrespect national boundaries. Perhaps because of my math-and-science background, I had a tendency to coldheartedly look for rational explanations for outrageous behavior. In fact, my last illusion about Putin was that he was a rational actor." 

---So  he's saying, "I condemned him, but not really. So yeah, I apologize, but not really I apologize because I kept rationalizing it." This guy has issues. Weird.

The only reason he admits what he claims to be an apology, is because he really didn't change what caused him to evaluate Putin in this way. Nothing has changed for the author -- he was forced into the apology because of the war, but only when it was inescapable.

I don’t see it like this at all. It’s an honest appraisal of how he was thinking throughout Putin’s rule, updated as new information came to light and he found himself making further excuses for Putin’s behavior - excuses he now realizes in retrospect we’re wrong the entire time.

What makes it instructive is that he’s not alone. This is a very common framework, not just domestically with Russians, but with Western leaders and businesses who always felt that Putin was someone they could do business with. 

It’s one thing to post on a message board you’re wrong, or make a tweet about it. It’s quite another to publish it as an op/Ed piece in a major national publication. 

When I first came on this thread all I found were people shocked Putin would actually invade. I’ve never been under any illusions about Putin or the danger he represented. The only thing I’ll say is that as bad as he’s been the whole time, it easily could have been worse, as hard as that is to imagine. Russians were always going to crave a ruler who projected strength. Same way the Germans did in the 1930s. Not to mention, the way the country was going back in 1999, it was not the kind of situation anyone would want for a nation with a massive nuclear arsenal.

Anyway, we have different views of the article. No biggie. 

[Deej 76903]

6 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

I think surly should adopt Ukraine as a country. These people are just beyond awesome. We're not...but that's ok. 

All fun and games until millions of Ukrainian Tech fans start posting in the basketball threads.

[Nicole44 22077]

1 minute ago, Deej said:

All fun and games until millions of Ukrainian Tech fans start posting in the basketball threads.

That's ok. We are now a baseball school so...

[Kel Varnsen 8540]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Panzerfaust is tankfist. The German language is so awesome- it’s like Lego language. Why make a new word when you can just press two or more words together?

 

[Brisketexan 105314]

No Russian Coke?  My god, the jokes we could make and get us all killed.  

NO COKE!

PEPSI!

[wait…no Pepsi either?]

RC COLA FOR YOU!

[you mofos sleep on the bastards at RC at your peril]

It's a disingenuous apology, it's CYA, he's not really sorry, he's just sorry he was wrong only up to the absolute bitter-end, and only then once the war started, and got caught.  Like you, who didn't identify that subtlety. 
Author still believes he was correct the entire time looking back on it, when he made excuses for Putin.
"And I admit that even I continued to make excuses for Putin long after doing so was reasonable. For instance, I condemned the 2014 annexation of Crimea even as I indulged in whataboutism, pointing out that Putin was hardly the only leader on the world stage to disrespect national boundaries. Perhaps because of my math-and-science background, I had a tendency to coldheartedly look for rational explanations for outrageous behavior. In fact, my last illusion about Putin was that he was a rational actor." 
---So  he's saying, "I condemned him, but not really. So yeah, I apologize, but not really I apologize because I kept rationalizing it." This guy has issues. Weird.

The only reason he admits what he claims to be an apology, is because he really didn't change what caused him to evaluate Putin in this way. Nothing has changed for the author -- he was forced into the apology because of the war, but only when it was inescapable.

I mean…that’s literally the anatomy of contrition. “I was wrong. And here’s exactly how I was wrong.” What else would you have him do? Say “and in conclusion, I was a wrongheaded dumbass?” He just spent an entire opinion piece saying exactly that. It’s kind of a textbook admission of personal failure.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

21 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

I assume Wheeler is not involved?

[BachelorTrek 3061]

 

[BachelorTrek 3061]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

NO COKE!

PEPSI!

[wait…no Pepsi either?]

RC COLA FOR YOU!

[you mofos sleep on the bastards at RC at your peril]


I mean…that’s literally the anatomy of contrition. “I was wrong. And here’s exactly how I was wrong.” What else would you have him do? Say “and in conclusion, I was a wrongheaded dumbass?” He just spent an entire opinion piece saying exactly that. It’s kind of a textbook admission of personal failure.

 

.... and say what he learned and how he will change his thinking on these topics and megalomaniacs evaluations, etc.. None of that.... just ran out the door.

Edited March 9, 2022 by BachelorTrek

[SL Xpress 7518]

2 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

I assume Wheeler is not involved?

That’s outstanding. 

[Dahobbs 17680]

27 minutes ago, BachelorTrek said:

It's a disingenuous apology, it's CYA, he's not really sorry, he's just sorry he was wrong only up to the absolute bitter-end, and only then once the war started, and got caught.  Like you, who didn't identify that subtlety. 

Author still believes he was correct the entire time looking back on it, when he made excuses for Putin.

"And I admit that even I continued to make excuses for Putin long after doing so was reasonable. For instance, I condemned the 2014 annexation of Crimea even as I indulged in whataboutism, pointing out that Putin was hardly the only leader on the world stage to disrespect national boundaries. Perhaps because of my math-and-science background, I had a tendency to coldheartedly look for rational explanations for outrageous behavior. In fact, my last illusion about Putin was that he was a rational actor." 

---So  he's saying, "I condemned him, but not really. So yeah, I apologize, but not really I apologize because I kept rationalizing it." This guy has issues. Weird.

The only reason he admits what he claims to be an apology, is because he really didn't change what caused him to evaluate Putin in this way. Nothing has changed for the author -- he was forced into the apology because of the war, but only when it was inescapable.

Your reading comprehension is terrible. He is explaining all the things he did wrong and admitting to them. You're just an asshole. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Dahobbs

[BachelorTrek 3061]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

NO COKE!

PEPSI!

[wait…no Pepsi either?]

RC COLA FOR YOU!

[you mofos sleep on the bastards at RC at your peril]


I mean…that’s literally the anatomy of contrition. “I was wrong. And here’s exactly how I was wrong.” What else would you have him do? Say “and in conclusion, I was a wrongheaded dumbass?” He just spent an entire opinion piece saying exactly that. It’s kind of a textbook admission of personal failure.

 

[F250 28817]

33 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

So the Poles send it to Ramstein and then what?  We arm it and give it to Ukranian pilots?  Fly it through German airspace? And then let them fly back to Ramstein? 

East bound and down, loaded up and truckin', We're gonna do what they say can't be done. We've got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

 

 

[FartingMonk 3608]

12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Somehow giving Ukraine a few dozen jets is MORE provocative than collapsing the entire Russian economy.  Make it make sense. 

Because the minute Putin decides he wants to end his shenanigans and quit playing warmonger.  The sanctions go away.  We may talk tough about the sanctions but as soon as Putin says oh I give up.  They cut it.  No one wants to sacrifice long term for a country they don't even know where it is.  Hell give it 3 more weeks when the next big news event shows up and all of a sudden Ukraine goes away.  

If those jets somehow do make it which I say doesn't.  And they end up destroying that entire convoy to Kyiv.  That's going to reverberate back to Moscow and soldiers desert.  That's the short term. 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

3 minutes ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

I assume Wheeler is not involved?

Umm. I'm not nearly cool enough to get the joke. Whoosh

[Zepol87 9191]

3 minutes ago, BachelorTrek said:

I don't really drink soda anymore but I used to fuck with RC cola heavy 

[BachelorTrek 3061]

 

[Buzzrock 14937]

I wish I could get a feel for how Nicole feels about all this. Maybe in another 350 pages.