Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[utee94 15746]

Pretty sure that detonating a nuclear plant, would have to be viewed by the West as a nuclear attack.  If this is true, then we're getting very close to the ultimate Fuck Around and Find Out.

[InkaUtexas 25531]

8 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

 

I thought they were winning. Why would they do this if they are winning? 

[Parliament 14141]

9 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

 

You're downwind from that plant, Dumbfucks.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

Man all the vids I see of the UK guys in the woods over there, it looks like it's crawling in poison ivy...

 

[MillerEP 30339]

2 minutes ago, Parliament said:

You're downwind from that plant, Dumbfucks.

Current Wind projections would take it down south, through Kherson (which they currently occupy), into Ankara, and then into Syria.

Edited August 8, 2022 by MillerEP

[Brisketexan 104670]

5 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

Current Wind projections would take it down south, through Kherson (which they currently occupy), into Ankara, and then into Syria.

This seems to be a memo someone should circulate to Ergogan.  His buddy-buddy bullshit with Russia may, literally, kill him.

[956 Worldwide 34462]

Moar HIMARS. Moar NASAMS. Moar Orcs losing.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3120059/1-billion-in-additional-security-assistance-for-ukraine/

[MillerEP 30339]

 

[atomheartbevo 89458]

21 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Moar HIMARS. Moar NASAMS. Moar Orcs losing.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3120059/1-billion-in-additional-security-assistance-for-ukraine/

 

[atomheartbevo 89458]

 

 

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

On 8/7/2022 at 12:27 PM, Schulz2.0 said:

 

 

 

On 8/7/2022 at 1:58 PM, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

If you read about that missile, either someone figured out how to fire one off a MIG or there is now a UKR pilot with a non-MIG sled.

 

On 8/7/2022 at 2:03 PM, Scheiss Meister said:

I wonder which it is.  May also be a jury rig on a helicopter, which would be really wild.

 

On 8/7/2022 at 2:08 PM, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Or a fake, but a lot of RU radars have gone boom in the past week.

 

On 8/7/2022 at 2:12 PM, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Air Force guys saying it is a fake as the rear fin is way too thick for a HARM.

Russia gearing up for mobilization or a cover story of losing to NATO?

Just look at the pix on a computer and not my phone. Bad photoshop as the scrapes somehow did not go through the serial number.

There is evidently a shipping container version of a HARM.  More likely in my opinion than some photoshop theory. 

[Rimbo 25788]

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

She looks a bit like Mila Kunis. And by that, I mean wheel-house. 

Who is also a hot Ukrainian. So yeah.

[atomheartbevo 89458]

 

[Scheiss Meister 8399]

HARMs will help with establishing air superiority, if Ukraine uses them right and follows up.  American-style air supremacy is probably out of reach, but even local air superiority can turn a battle.

[Pescado_Rojo 19332]

4 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

HARMs will help with establishing air superiority, if Ukraine uses them right and follows up.  American-style air supremacy is probably out of reach, but even local air superiority can turn a battle.

I wonder how hard it would be to refurb a few EA-6B Prowlers and train up some Uke flight crews. Give them anti-radiation missiles and some electronic warfare pods and they could get pretty damn close to tactical air superiority. 

[Fico 1743]

4 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

Story going around that the reason RU switched to firing missiles from over the Caspian Sea, instead of RU or Belarus, is because half are duds and immediately fall out of the sky.

I believe TU-95s and TU-160s have been firing their air launched cruise missiles (kh-101s?) from the Caspian since early in the war but also could mean they have been having failures the entire time. 

It is interesting they fired a Kindzhal air launched ballistic missile (aka Iskander strapped to a MIG-31) over the weekend. I can't remember seeing it used since Russia allegedly struck a facility under a farm or someshit.  

 

5 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

This would explain the increased size and rate of Ukr Air sorties around Kherson recently. 

I hope they have or get a ground launched version too. Even with the less range than an air launched version it could be very useful quick response for knocking out buks, pantsirs and s-300/400 operating relatively close to the front. Comboing HARMs with Toucha Us or TB2s could be very effective. 

Any surly mil geniuses know if HARMs can target other types of EW assets or is it only geared around radar emissions? Thinking things like communications nodes, jamming units, etc

[RDCanecutter 26291]

1 hour ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Man all the vids I see of the UK guys in the woods over there, it looks like it's crawling in poison ivy...

 

My thoughts too, but apparently they don't have it.

Might be full of nettles, which are fun but not as bad.

[Fico 1743]

11 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I wonder how hard it would be to refurb a few EA-6B Prowlers and train up some Uke flight crews. Give them anti-radiation missiles and some electronic warfare pods and they could get pretty damn close to tactical air superiority. 

Now that would fuck hard. Throw an ISR pod like sniper onto it too

[Ghost of LL 15494]

5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The sole info for the Nork stuff is Russian state TV and they quote Russia’s ambassador to North Korea. I’d place lots of money on this being entirely made up in an effort to convince Russian viewers that is OK they don’t have any friends but North Korea anymore. It’s just not credible at all. 
 

On the other hand, I do believe they’d send slave laborers to rebuild occupied Ukraine in exchange for whatever hard currency Russia still has left.

The North Korea thing has never made any sense.

1) Neither Russia nor North Korea have the airlift or sealift capability to transport 100,000 troops.  So they'd have to go over the Transsiberian, which is congested in the best of circumstances.  That's probably 150 trainloads, which would take months.

2) Even assuming they get to Ukraine, what are 100,000 North Koreans going to do?  Are they going to be under Russian command, when they don't speak Russian?  Are they going to be under North Korean command, even though the two armies have never conducted joint exercises and, to my knowledge, have never had staff talks?

3) So North Korea is just fine with loaning out a substantial portion of its combat forces?  That's a bold move for a country that is ostensibly at war with its neighbor.

2 hours ago, MillerEP said:

 

It's a stupid move with no strategic upside.  So of course destroying the nuclear power plant is exactly what the Russians are going to do.

[atomheartbevo 89458]

1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

It's a stupid move with no strategic upside.  So of course destroying the nuclear power plant is exactly what the Russians are going to do.

If they can't have it, nobody else can.  That's been their strategy in Ukraine all along.

[atomheartbevo 89458]

27 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I wonder how hard it would be to refurb a few EA-6B Prowlers and train up some Uke flight crews. Give them anti-radiation missiles and some electronic warfare pods and they could get pretty damn close to tactical air superiority. 

Nothing that fancy - if they can get them on current Ukrainian equipment and just knock out the chunks of Russian AA that they need to, that gives them breathing room for their larger drones, since that seems to be incredibly important to them right now.

[Dahobbs 17451]

1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

Who is also a hot Ukrainian. So yeah.

Move to Ukraine. Got it. My Russian might be a hindrance at this point though. 

[bolverk 29414]

Alright...confession time. Up the page when seeing "anti-radiation missiles" for the first time, I was all like "Holy shit! We have missiles that combat radiation! How would that even work!" Who cares! This might solve the blown up nuclear reactor problem! USA! USA! USA!"

Looked it up and am now disappointed. I knew that anti-radar combat weapons have been around -- just didn't know they were called "anti-radiation." Yes, I am a dumbass.

[RDCanecutter 26291]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Move to Ukraine. Got it. My Russian might be a hindrance at this point though. 

All the cool kids are ditching Russian and learning Ukrainian. You just go to night class like everybody else.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

This seems to be a memo someone should circulate to Ergogan.  His buddy-buddy bullshit with Russia may, literally, kill him.

He both sides it. A Bayraktar plant in Ukraine was announced yesterday.

[Scheiss Meister 8399]

56 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I wonder how hard it would be to refurb a few EA-6B Prowlers and train up some Uke flight crews. Give them anti-radiation missiles and some electronic warfare pods and they could get pretty damn close to tactical air superiority. 

Pretty hard, I think.  The Prowlers have been mothballed for a while, and I'm sure that the equipment for the F-18 Growlers isn't fully compatible, so re-equiping them would be an effort.  Then you have to train up pilots and electronic warfare officers on equipment that is very, very different from anything they have ever seen.  Finally, the Iron Hand/Wild Weasel electronic warfare mission is one of the most difficult missions to train for and execute successfully.  Once Russia is pushed out, I'm sure that it's a mission that the Ukrainian Air Force takes on, but I don't think they have the time or personnel to do it now.  More's the pity.

That's not to say that they can't get an advantage locally with what they have that would allow close air support for ground operations in limited areas.  That could be a game changer, executed judiciously and strategically.

[Fico 1743]

2 hours ago, Scheiss Meister said:

Pretty hard, I think.  The Prowlers have been mothballed for a while, and I'm sure that the equipment for the F-18 Growlers isn't fully compatible, so re-equiping them would be an effort.  Then you have to train up pilots and electronic warfare officers on equipment that is very, very different from anything they have ever seen.  Finally, the Iron Hand/Wild Weasel electronic warfare mission is one of the most difficult missions to train for and execute successfully.  Once Russia is pushed out, I'm sure that it's a mission that the Ukrainian Air Force takes on, but I don't think they have the time or personnel to do it now.  More's the pity.

That's not to say that they can't get an advantage locally with what they have that would allow close air support for ground operations in limited areas.  That could be a game changer, executed judiciously and strategically.

Sounds like they are conducting some wild weasel type missions if they are using HARMs unless they can stay outside the SAM engagement range?

I wonder what air frame they are using? Guessing MIG-29 or maybe SU-24 over the SU-25 and SU-27. 

EDIT: Some good answers in this thread:

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Fico

[Bevo 13528]

3 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

All the cool kids are ditching Russian and learning Ukrainian. You just go to night class like everybody else.

[MillerEP 30339]

 

[MillerEP 30339]

 

[FartingMonk 3606]

At this point if Putin doesn't die there is no hope for Ukraine.  

[Brisketexan 104670]

At this point if Putin doesn't die there is no hope for Ukraine.  

There’s no hope in war. Just pain. Inflict more of it on Russia.

[Schulz2.0 28785]

 

[statsman 5425]

7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

There’s no hope in war. Just pain. Inflict more of it on Russia.

What is the US strategy, here? It’s to counter and prevent the Russian strategy. The Russian strategy is to parlay their military capability and institutional disdain for liberal democracy into regional dominance and increased global influence. The US strategy is to stop them (and China). Supporting Ukraine is a tactic for the US. A victorious Ukraine would be nice, but not essential. 
Russia can, and will, get nastier. They can kill civilians. They can blow up nuclear power plants, poisoning the land for generations. They can use tactical nukes. NATO will not respond in kind. 
The proper NATO response isn’t to push harder for victory in Ukraine, who isn’t a NATO member. The proper response is to let Russia display who and what they are, in its full horror. Then, NATO nations can go about the work of shoring up their defenses, and increasing energy independence. 
If the west stays true to its principles-liberal democracy, market capitalism and rule of law, time is on its side (as it has been for the last couple of centuries). This approach is, unhappily, accepting of a bad outcome for Ukraine. The west needs to welcome its refugees and work hard to keep the same from happening to Taiwan. 
All that being said, yes, if Putin were to die, it could be possible to negotiate a peace that was acceptable. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by statsman

[Gengs1 2583]

18 minutes ago, statsman said:

What is the US strategy, here? It’s to counter and prevent the Russian strategy. The Russian strategy is to parlay their military capability and institutional disdain for liberal democracy into regional dominance and increased global influence. The US strategy is to stop them (and China). Supporting Ukraine is a tactic for the US. A victorious Ukraine would be nice, but not essential. 
Russia can, and will, get nastier. They can kill civilians. They can blow up nuclear power plants, poisoning the land for generations. They can use tactical nukes. NATO will not respond in kind. 
The proper NATO response isn’t to push harder for victory in Ukraine, who isn’t a NATO member. The proper response is to let Russia display who and what they are, in its full horror. Then, NATO nations can go about the work of shoring up their defenses, and increasing energy independence. 
If the west stays true to its principles-liberal democracy, market capitalism and rule of law, time is on its side (as it has been for the last couple of centuries). This approach is, unhappily, accepting of a bad outcome for Ukraine. The west needs to welcome its refugees and work hard to keep the same from happening to Taiwan. 
All that being said, yes, if Putin were to die, it could be possible to negotiate a peace that was acceptable. 

The Answer is pretty simple, give Ukraine all of the weapons they need to win, give them long range weapons, some planes and what they ask for. They are more willing and capable to fight and win, they would prevail if given what they need. Look what they are doing with limited resources.  The west is slow playing this and looking weakish, single overwhelming support sends a message to Russia/China, don’t start shit and there won’t be shit.

you answer Russia with brute force cause that’s what they understand. Don’t backdown from them and they will move back 

[statsman 5425]

12 minutes ago, Gengs1 said:

The Answer is pretty simple, give Ukraine all of the weapons they need to win

A few problems:

-Ukraine’s idea of a win is different than ours. Would you propose continuing to support them after they reject a possible truce back to 2014 borders?

-There is a lot of truth in the wry, cynical comment “NATO is willing to fight to the last Ukrainian”. How many dead civilians can we tolerate before dropping out? How can we continue to  supply Ukraine with weapons to keep a war going that we are unwilling to see through

-Tactical nukes, chemical and biological weapons…Russia can get a lot nastier than we are willing to match. The west needs to avoid the mistake of 1915, when all its leaders were looking at each other sheepishly, recognizing that they never would have made the decisions they did if they knew that’s where they would end up. 

[AUS-97HORN 11682]

49 minutes ago, statsman said:

What is the US strategy, here? It’s to counter and prevent the Russian strategy. The Russian strategy is to parlay their military capability and institutional disdain for liberal democracy into regional dominance and increased global influence. The US strategy is to stop them (and China). Supporting Ukraine is a tactic for the US. A victorious Ukraine would be nice, but not essential. 
Russia can, and will, get nastier. They can kill civilians. They can blow up nuclear power plants, poisoning the land for generations. They can use tactical nukes. NATO will not respond in kind. 
The proper NATO response isn’t to push harder for victory in Ukraine, who isn’t a NATO member. The proper response is to let Russia display who and what they are, in its full horror. Then, NATO nations can go about the work of shoring up their defenses, and increasing energy independence. 
If the west stays true to its principles-liberal democracy, market capitalism and rule of law, time is on its side (as it has been for the last couple of centuries). This approach is, unhappily, accepting of a bad outcome for Ukraine. The west needs to welcome its refugees and work hard to keep the same from happening to Taiwan. 
All that being said, yes, if Putin were to die, it could be possible to negotiate a peace that was acceptable. 

 

6 minutes ago, statsman said:

A few problems:

-Ukraine’s idea of a win is different than ours. Would you propose continuing to support them after they reject a possible truce back to 2014 borders?

-There is a lot of truth in the wry, cynical comment “NATO is willing to fight to the last Ukrainian”. How many dead civilians can we tolerate before dropping out? How can we continue to  supply Ukraine with weapons to keep a war going that we are unwilling to see through

-Tactical nukes, chemical and biological weapons…Russia can get a lot nastier than we are willing to match. The west needs to avoid the mistake of 1915, when all its leaders were looking at each other sheepishly, recognizing that they never would have made the decisions they did if they knew that’s where they would end up. 

 

#1 you mention the lessons learned from 1914 in 1915... but you are forgetting the lessons learned in 1937-1938- appeasement doesnt work

#2 you are OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND if you think that we will just sit back and let Russia Nuke Ukraine.   If that happens we can all kiss our ass goodbye because we wont just sit back and tsk tsk. 

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

Seems US strategy is to help Ukraine survive long enough for the economic sanctions to ruin Russia. Problem with that strategy is that sanctions are leaky.  Garbage counties in SE Asia and Africa still trade with them too much. 

[statsman 5425]

5 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Seems US strategy is to help Ukraine survive long enough for the economic sanctions to ruin Russia. Problem with that strategy is that sanctions are leaky.  Garbage counties in SE Asia and Africa still trade with them too much. 

What about Turkey? They need to figure out what side they’re on. 

[Bevo 13528]

Pink Floyd’s Waters backs Russia, calls Biden a ‘war criminal’ over Ukraine

by Judy Kurtz - 08/08/22 11:21 AM ET

Roger Waters is defending dubbing Joe Biden a “war criminal,” accusing the president of “fueling the fire in the Ukraine.”

“That is a huge crime,” the Pink Floyd co-founder said in an interview that aired Saturday on CNN’s “Smerconish.”

 

During his latest solo concert tour, the 78-year-old rocker includes an image of Biden in a montage of “war criminals,” with the message “Just getting started” over the 46th president’s face.

Speaking with host Michael Smerconish, Waters wondered aloud why the United States wouldn’t “encourage” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky “to negotiate, obviating the need for this horrific, horrendous war that’s killing we don’t know how many Ukrainians and Russians.”

Biden has authorized more than $8 billion in security assistance for Ukraine over the course of 17 packages following Russia’s invasion, which began in February, according to White House national security spokesman John Kirby.

Smerconish pushed back on the remarks from Waters, leading to several heated exchanges between the two.

“But you’re blaming the party that got invaded, come on. You’ve got it reversed. [Russian President Vladimir Putin] is at fault,” Smerconish said at one point.

Russian troops invaded Ukraine in February after previously invading in 2014 and annexing the region of Crimea. Putin and Russian media have offered the false narrative to justify the invasion that it was necessary to denazify Ukraine’s leadership, despite the fact that Zelensky himself is Jewish.

 

Russia has since received international criticism for an indiscriminate bombing campaign that has hit civilian areas in Ukraine hard. Russian soldiers have also been accused of war crimes.

The United Nations General Assembly approved a resolution condemning the invasion and calling for Russia to remove its troops.

But Waters defended Russia in the contentious discussion with Smerconish.

 

“Any war, when did it start? What you need to do is look at the history and you can say it started on this day. You can say it started in 2008,” Waters said.

“This war is basically about the action and reaction of NATO pushing right up to the Russian border, which they promised they wouldn’t do when [former Soviet leader Mikhail] Gorbachev negotiated the withdraw of the USSR from the whole of Eastern Europe.”

NATO has taken on the Baltic states and other countries in Eastern Europe once dominated by the Soviet Union as members since the fall of Soviet rule. Ukraine had pressed for NATO membership, another spark in the conflict with Russia, though it was not actually close to becoming a NATO member at the time of the invasion.

 

Asked by Smerconish about the U.S.’s “role as liberators,” Waters harkened back to the Iraq War to exclaim, “You have no role as liberators! What are you talking about?”

Smerconish and Waters also tangled in a discussion about China, Taiwan and human rights.

After the CNN host described the Chinese as “encircling Taiwan,” Waters said, “They’re not encircling Taiwan — Taiwan is part of China.”

 

“That’s been absolutely accepted by the whole of the international community since 1948,” Waters continued. “And if you don’t know that, you’re not reading enough.”

Beijing claims sovereignty over Taiwan, but Taiwan has been governed separate from the mainland in the decades since the end of the Chinese Civil War. Beijing has been on a decades-long campaign to pressure other countries to not recognize Taiwan or risk being cut off from China economically.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) just made a controversial trip to Taiwan that angered Beijing and unsettled the Biden administration.

 

“You’re believing your side’s propaganda,” Waters told Smerconish about Taiwan and China.

When Smerconish said China was at the “top of the list” of human rights offenders, Waters replied, “The Chinese didn’t invade Iraq and kill a million people in 2003.”

England-born Waters has long been outspoken about his political views. He’s been a fierce critic of former President Trump, referring to him as a “tyrant” and a “mass murderer.”

[RPM 26232]

56 minutes ago, Gengs1 said:

you answer Russia with brute force cause that’s what they understand. Don’t backdown from them and they will move back 

This. I've told this story before but I work with an old Russian. He's a good guy that works his ass off to support his lazy kids. I asked him about the Russian Army several years ago and he told me "Fuck Putin. All the Army does is kill everyone, that's all they understand." The RA is a blunt object. They have no finesse, their strategy is scorched earth. Not sure they're capable of a full on tech savvy enemy attack. Hell, they are outsourcing weapons components they use today.

Edited August 9, 2022 by RPM

[utee94 15746]

Roger Waters seems like he sucks.

[Bateshorn 9908]

14 minutes ago, statsman said:

What about Turkey? They need to figure out what side they’re on. 

The Turks, under Erdogan, are to some degree a criminal syndicate. Any reproachment with Russia is an attempt to extract something out of NATO/EU/US.   Whether it’s Gulan activists, Kurdish activists, concessions in Syrah, cash money, weapons, IDK what it is, but there will be a flurry of quiet diplomatic activity and then they will back away from the reproachment. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Bateshorn

[Gengs1 2583]

41 minutes ago, statsman said:

A few problems:

-Ukraine’s idea of a win is different than ours. Would you propose continuing to support them after they reject a possible truce back to 2014 borders?

-There is a lot of truth in the wry, cynical comment “NATO is willing to fight to the last Ukrainian”. How many dead civilians can we tolerate before dropping out? How can we continue to  supply Ukraine with weapons to keep a war going that we are unwilling to see through

-Tactical nukes, chemical and biological weapons…Russia can get a lot nastier than we are willing to match. The west needs to avoid the mistake of 1915, when all its leaders were looking at each other sheepishly, recognizing that they never would have made the decisions they did if they knew that’s where they would end up. 

-we will have to continue to support them in the future or Russia is coming back, we don’t know if they would reject that deal to go back to 2014 border, I think they just want their land back.

-so Russia should keep on killing civilians so we stop supporting them? 
 

-if nukes get involved; send whole NATO on Russia, only solution.

This is the only way to deal with Russia 

 

[statsman 5425]

Yeah, that’s a “no” for me. 

[Pato del Muerto 52347]

13 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Roger Waters seems like he sucks.

Rogers grew up in post-war Britain and his father died in ww2 and grandfather in ww1. It’s not surprising that he’d be hard core anti-war. 

[utee94 15746]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

Rogers grew up in post-war Britain and his father died in ww2 and grandfather in ww1. It’s not surprising that he’d be hard core anti-war. 

Yup, I know.

Doesn't change the fact that he's wrong and he sucks.

[RPM 26232]

The second nukes are involved, everybody loses. Pretty sure China will keep that from happening. I mean they hate us, but they don't want to die from second hand radiation.

[AUS-97HORN 11682]

1 minute ago, statsman said:

Yeah, that’s a “no” for me. 

 

 

you are exactly what Russia is counting on.  sitting back and just letting it happen.

 

Russia has already said they have every intention of retaking Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania  along with all of Ukraine, Muldova, and Bulgaria.  and they may get froggy enough to think they can take Poland.

 

Russia is being led by a James Bond madman who wants the world to bow to ancient perceived Russian pressure while he tries to rebuild the Soviet Empire. and either the West lets it happen- and lose all chance to contain.... or we take a stand...... a stand that may fuck us all.

otherwise, this shit is going to be repeated every 20 years.

[Armybrat 40750]

3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Rogers grew up in post-war Britain and his father died in ww2 and grandfather in ww1. It’s not surprising that he’d be hard core anti-war. 

Why not criticize the criminal thug who is the new Hitler instead of those who are reacting?