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Eastwood

By Eastwood
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AUS-97HORN
AUS-97HORN

For the love of Christ woman,  stop posting the same fucking thing every 20 mins just to make your neurotic self feel better.     Bring something useful to the thread other than your inane babbli

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InkaUtexas
InkaUtexas

I volunteered today. Log/Admin role to replace people for 30-60 days. The operation is in the west, or should the Orcs win will be pulled back behind the NATO wall. Either way the humanitarian effort

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bolverk

bolverk 29660

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tldr: America's support for Ukraine is key to Europe's continued support.

Even as Challenges Mount, Europeans Stick by Ukraine
Inflation and anxiety over nuclear weapons may be eating into some popular support for the war, but key governments remain insulated from the pressures for now.

ROME — The high cost of living is provoking strikes, protests and widespread grumbling. Talk about nuclear weapons has heightened anxieties and encouraged some to demand rapid negotiations. And President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia is wooing politicians, including many from populist parties on the right and the left who have flirted with him in the past.

But while Mr. Putin may have bet on European fatigue and intolerance for hardship to divide the alliance and buckle its weakest members, more than eight months into Russia’s war on Ukraine, the scale of the challenges has been leveraged effectively by leaders to stiffen the public spine and Europe is holding firm.

Despite some kicking and screaming, governments across the ideological spectrum and the continent — in Western and Eastern Europe, in the Baltics and along the Mediterranean — are maintaining support for Ukraine and tough sanctions on Russia.

While recent polls show a slight dip in popular support for Ukraine across Europe, backing still remains strong, and the leaders of Germany, France and Italy — the continent’s three largest countries — seem insulated against external and internal pressures to cave for the foreseeable future, as they have all recently had elections.

Many analysts believe that commitment will last as long as the United States holds the line, but gains in Tuesday’s midterm elections by Republicans, some of whom have questioned the cost of the war, could alter those expectations. Most of those pushing for immediate peace or a re-embrace of Mr. Putin are for now sequestered in the political opposition.

“Of course we want to achieve peace, that’s the goal for everybody, but it’s impossible to achieve this goal, peace, without justice,” Antonio Tajani, Italy’s new foreign minister, said in a brief interview in his office on Wednesday.

“If you want peace,” he added, “you need to strengthen Ukraine.”

How long such resolve will last remains the lingering question, especially with the uneasy realization that the war will stretch through winter, and most likely beyond, pushing Europeans into a new world of security threats and economic uncertainty.

But many Europeans are girding themselves for the challenge.

cont'd:

Spoiler

“Putin is a dictator. He’s attacking all of the European Union. I find it intolerable,” said Tristan Malinas, 28, a roofing apprentice, who sat watching his 3-year-old daughter ride an antique carousel during a midweek holiday in Paris. “The European Union was created for peace. He is trying to destroy that.”

Like him, many French have accepted President Emmanuel Macron’s depiction of the war as an existential battle, directly threatening peace and democracies built carefully since World War II and reinforced by the creation of NATO and the European Union. Many also worry that Russia’s targets will expand, bringing the war closer to their own doorsteps.

“In France, there’s a strong concern if we don’t stop Putin here, he will continue — next will be Poland or the Baltic nations. He will eventually destabilize all of Europe,” said Jérôme Fourquet, one of France’s leading pollsters, whose firm, IFOP, has shown support for sanctions against Russia and for Ukraine in general still around 70 percent.

Few French believe the Russian argument that the war was pushed by NATO and the United States, he added. “For the great majority of French people, there is no debate,” he said. “It’s clear that Ukraine is the victim and Russia the attacker.”

Though France has seen widespread strikes in recent weeks over the rising cost of living exacerbated by the war, many French seem prepared to pay the price of their resolve. It has helped that the government, like Germany’s, has spent massively to blunt some of the effects of inflation and higher energy prices.

An unseasonably warm autumn, with record-breaking temperatures in October, has helped buy time, too — as has the gas that Europe saved over the summer, driving down the prices and allowing Europe’s reserves to be historically full for this winter.

A new survey by eupinions, a platform for European public opinion by the polling foundation Bertelsmann Stiftung, found that 57 percent of Europeans, down from 60 percent in the summer and 64 percent in March, still support sending arms to Ukraine.

“The French simply don’t have the right to say that they are fed up with the war,” said Florence Habay, 50, playing with her two sons in Paris’s Bastille district.

The rise in gas prices has spelled the end of the family’s weekend trips to a country home. But it seemed a small price to pay compared with what is happening on the Ukrainian battlefields, she said.

But there are still signs that European resolve could yet soften under the weight of the economic toll and fears of a wider war or the use of nuclear weapons.

Calls for peace have been a prominent feature of protests organized by the far right over high energy prices and inflation in Germany, where 60 percent of the population believes there is a need for more diplomatic initiatives.

Even the moderate leader of the eastern state of Saxony, Michael Kretschmer, from the former Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union party, has pushed for negotiations and reconciliation.

Some elements in the Social Democratic Party of Chancellor Olaf Scholz are also showing signs of gravitating back toward rapprochement with Russia.

Rolf Mützenich, the head of the party’s parliamentary group, accused the foreign minister of not doing more to find a diplomatic solution, and argued that there needed to be a “balance” between the Ukrainian right to self-defense and the need for diplomacy.

That feeling is simmering around Europe, though for now, it is relegated to the opposition.

“There are two camps now in Europe,” George Katrougalos, the former Greek foreign minister of the country’s main opposition Syriza party, said in a recent interview. “The camp of justice and the camp of peace.”

“The camp of justice says, now, whatever, Russia must be punished and we cannot have an end of the war, at least until Russia is defeated completely,” he added. “I don’t believe this is feasible for a nuclear power. So I’m supporting the other idea. The idea of peace.”

But Greece’s government has been staunchly in support of Ukraine, as has Italy’s new prime minister, Giorgia Meloni. In an interview before taking power last month, she said she would “totally” continue to send offensive arms to Ukraine.

But Ms. Meloni’s coalition partner, Silvio Berlusconi, was quoted this past week saying a peace process depended on Ukraine understanding that at a certain point, “it can no longer count on arms and help.”

Mr. Tajani, a member of Mr. Berlusconi’s party, said that what mattered was not what Mr. Berlusconi said in private, but how he voted in public, and that he had consistently backed Ukraine.

“This for a politician is important, what we do,” Mr. Tajani said, adding, in an apparent show of institutional, and internal-party, strength, “My position is very clear.”

He said the government would “follow the European decisions” when it came to sending arms to Ukraine. Those small Italian arms shipments, while inconsequential on the battlefield, have become a political issue in a country with the lowest support in Europe for arms deliveries, fewer than 40 percent, according to eupinions.

A large peace rally on Saturday in Rome included the center-left establishment as well as populists opposed to arming Ukraine and a variety of pacifist and Roman Catholic groups.

Prominent among them was Giuseppe Conte, the former prime minister and now leader of the populist Five Star Movement, who, to rebuild his party from the left, has blamed a “bellicose push” by NATO and the European Union for the continuance of the war.

While Mr. Conte has for months adopted a pacifist line, the participation in the march of the center-left Democratic Party, which was a strong supporter of Ukraine in the prior government, surprised many.

“It’s nauseating,” said Nathalie Tocci, the director of the Institute for International Affairs in Rome, who considered the step a blatant political play to chase Five Star voters rather than a change of heart on Ukraine.

Marco Furfaro, a Democratic Party lawmaker, said the party had decided to take part to demand the withdrawal of Russian forces and show support for Ukraine, which he suggested, though would not outright say, his party would continue to vote to arm.

“If there is a new request in parliament, we’ll discuss it,” he said.

But with the specter of nuclear destruction in the air, Mr. Furfaro said it also joined the march “to put pressure on the international community, and in particular Europe,” to negotiate a cease-fire.

Analysts, noting Ms. Meloni and other major European leaders had no threat of upcoming elections, considered their support for Ukraine solid, protest or no protest.

“It all really starts and ends in the United States,” Ms. Tocci said. “I think as long as the U.S. holds the position that it does, I’m not concerned in the slightest.”

 

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texastough

texastough 1129

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34 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

 

This concludes Russia probably has about 2,000 modern-ish tanks still operational, but seems to me it leaves out something really important from the analysis. How many trained tank crews does Russia have left? Doesn't it require some extensive training to use a tank effectively? Given Russia has lost most of its initial invading force and is replacing it with untrained mobiks, I would think that is the limiting factor rather than number of working tanks.

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19416

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1 hour ago, texastough said:

This concludes Russia probably has about 2,000 modern-ish tanks still operational, but seems to me it leaves out something really important from the analysis. How many trained tank crews does Russia have left? Doesn't it require some extensive training to use a tank effectively? Given Russia has lost most of its initial invading force and is replacing it with untrained mobiks, I would think that is the limiting factor rather than number of working tanks.

I've known a few tankers....

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105095

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14 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I've known a few tankers....

nope-no.gif

Extensive training?  Maybe not.  SOME?  Yep.  Wasn't there a story of some conscripts being dropped into a T-62 and sent to the front, and they could barely drive it, and couldn't operate the turret or gun at all?  That seems....efficient.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34705

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14 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

There are certain people in this country that shouldn’t be given any ideas. 

What an asshat, and what a stark difference in courage with some of the better representatives of that faith. Archbishop Damaskinos of Greece, who is listed with the “Righteous Among the Nations” was threatened with a firing squad by the SS after he protested deportations of Jews and ordered churches to issue fake baptismal certificates. He delivered one of the underrated lines of WII and history:

 

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According to the traditions of the Greek Orthodox Church, our prelates are hanged, not shot. Please respect our traditions!

 

 

 

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dimyh

dimyh 1874

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8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Extensive training?  Maybe not.  SOME?  Yep.  Wasn't there a story of some conscripts being dropped into a T-62 and sent to the front, and they could barely drive it, and couldn't operate the turret or gun at all?  That seems....efficient.

Well we have seen plenty examples of Russians demonstrating advanced tactics such as drive balls-to-the-walls into a minefield or bailing out once coming under artillery fire.

I think it's more evidence of their overall poor training. It's not just driving the tanks but lacking the combined arms training to be effective. No infantry support with their tanks, poor coms for combined air or artillery support, etc.

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Mantis Toboggan, MD

Mantis Toboggan, MD 1501

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Well we have seen plenty examples of Russians demonstrating advanced tactics such as drive balls-to-the-walls into a minefield or bailing out once coming under artillery fire.
I think it's more evidence of their overall poor training. It's not just driving the tanks but lacking the combined arms training to be effective. No infantry support with their tanks, poor coms for combined air or artillery support, etc.

I think Russian tank training is called “Flight School” judging from many videos I’ve seen
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89648

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6 hours ago, texastough said:

This concludes Russia probably has about 2,000 modern-ish tanks still operational, but seems to me it leaves out something really important from the analysis. How many trained tank crews does Russia have left? Doesn't it require some extensive training to use a tank effectively? Given Russia has lost most of its initial invading force and is replacing it with untrained mobiks, I would think that is the limiting factor rather than number of working tanks.

5 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I've known a few tankers....

nope-no.gif

I Know Right GIF by One Chicago

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