Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[AUS-97HORN 11991]

34 minutes ago, elfenix said:

i don't know what kind of silo you've gotten yourself into but amnesty has been speaking out against russia since the start of the war.  you only have to go to their website to see that.

 

 

6 minutes ago, elfenix said:

so one report out of 50?

 

 

Stop being obtuse, they have clearly been infiltrated/influenced heavily by Russian propaganda teams to the point that as an organization their opinions are pure fucked trash.

That bullshit Amnesty hit piece article from ~5 months ago accusing Ukraine of committing war crimes by using clearly ABANDONDED schools  as military headquarters while at the same time Russia was actively shelling real Hospitals and clearly marked civillian bomb shelters renders every fucking article they write or publish afterwards as worthless.

And everything they write until their entire current WORLDWIDE leadership team is replaced will continue to be complete and total bullshit.

 

They lost their way, this isnt the Amnesty International we knew growing up in school that told South Africa to free Mandella, or to stop global torture, or stop using cluster bombs.... this new social media savvy version of AI has been corrupted by Russian money power and influence for the past 20 years.

 

[atomheartbevo 90554]

 

[atomheartbevo 90554]

 

[elfenix 34662]

3 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

 

 

Stop being obtuse, they have clearly been infiltrated/influenced heavily by Russian propaganda teams to the point that as an organization their opinions are pure fucked trash.

That bullshit Amnesty hit piece article from ~5 months ago accusing Ukraine of committing war crimes by using clearly ABANDONDED schools  as military headquarters while at the same time Russia was actively shelling real Hospitals and clearly marked civillian bomb shelters renders every fucking article they write or publish afterwards as worthless.

And everything they write until their entire current WORLDWIDE leadership team is replaced will continue to be complete and total bullshit.

 

They lost their way, this isnt the Amnesty International we knew growing up in school that told South Africa to free Mandella, or to stop global torture, or stop using cluster bombs.... this new social media savvy version of AI has been corrupted by Russian money power and influence for the past 20 years.

 

y'all are ignoring the 95% of reports and i'm the one who's obtuse?  say the one report is shit but don't lie and say that all they've done for months is provide cover for russians. 

[atomheartbevo 90554]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

I've been working too much this week instead of spending all of my time reading Surly so I might have missed it-- were last week's fears that Russia was leaving Kherson as a trap, set to blow, unfounded?  They just left so quickly that we assumed it was a planned retreat and a dangerous trap, but in reality it was more like a rout?

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Yeah when I asked folks to call their shot on Kherson, folks went with the evilest options. Turns out maybe the stupidest option was the right call: loot shit on the way out while abandoning their most capable soldiers.

I think the fears were real - Russia needed to inflict some heavy losses to buy time to get more mobilized into the fight,

But the fact that Russia blew the bridges means they have given up on it, and weren’t willing to waste Russian soldiers trying to hold Kherson or lay a trap.

And given the public remarks on Russian state TV trying to distance Putin from this fiasco, and that weirdly scripted interaction between  the Russian commander and Shoigu, it’s looking like Russia is eating crow and truly backing out.

[956 Worldwide 35529]

45 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

US saying diplomacy possible. If you were Ukraine would you take this to end the war?

Russia keeps Crimea and dumbas regions. Immediate withdrawal of all troops

Ukraine keeps everything else, immediately is granted Nato status, is is able to prosecute all war crimes and receives reparations from Russia. 

Hell no. I think it wouldn’t be awful to have talks aimed at specific things, but it’s not likely to lead to a general end of the war.  It would be huge to get formal Russian recognition that Kherson (under Russian law, it’s Russian) is Ukraine. 
 

The minimum needed for even ceasefire should be status quo ante— withdrawal to the 2014 LOC, agreement not to attack again. Plus Russia dropping any claims on Ukraine’s membership in any international organization. Kick the can down the road on Dontesk, Luhansk, Crimea.  Tear up Minsk II and agree to further talks while UA maintains its claim and make those territories albatrosses to Russia. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

51 minutes ago, UTGrad98 said:

US saying diplomacy possible. If you were Ukraine would you take this to end the war?

Russia keeps Crimea and dumbas regions. Immediate withdrawal of all troops

Ukraine keeps everything else, immediately is granted Nato status, is is able to prosecute all war crimes and receives reparations from Russia. 

Lol no.

[956 Worldwide 35529]

8 minutes ago, elfenix said:

y'all are ignoring the 95% of reports and i'm the one who's obtuse?  say the one report is shit but don't lie and say that all they've done for months is provide cover for russians. 

That report from earlier this year is the “but you fuck one sheep” punchline in practice for a human rights organization. 
 

Tread lightly if you want to call out the clear victim in a war of imperial aggression. And make damn sure you’re right.  
 

Amnesty failed at both.

[Brisketexan 106670]

3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

That report from earlier this year is the “but you fuck one sheep” punchline in practice for a human rights organization. 
 

Tread lightly if you want to call out the clear victim in a war of imperial aggression. And make damn sure you’re right.  
 

Amnesty failed at both.

THIS.

Seriously, imagine Amnesty International calling out the jews resisting the nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto for using children as tools of deception to accomplish their goals (which they did, by the way).  WTF?  A people imprisoned in a ghetto, being systematically exterminated, and you want to call out their methods for trying to survive because you want to be seen as "even-handed?"  Fucking nazis.  Exterminating jews.  There is no "even-handed."

[The Dog 44775]

 

[SmokeyTheBear 5569]

12 hours ago, Post Oak said:

Can you even imagine

 

[956 Worldwide 35529]

6 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

The Russians blew up part of the Antonovsky Bridge.

 

Ukraine has great PR, but what I’d like to see them start doing is sending itemized bills to the Kremlin for shit the Russians leave destroyed in liberated territories.  And for power plants and stuff they hit in air strikes, too. 

[Scheiss Meister 8453]

6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Ukraine has great PR, but what I’d like to see them start doing is sending itemized bills to the Kremlin for shit the Russians leave destroyed in liberated territories.  And for power plants and stuff they hit in air strikes, too. 

I would add insult to injury by also billing them for the missiles that sank the Moskva, the truck and explosives that damaged the Kerch bridge, and the drones used in the attack on Sevastopol.

[The Dog 44775]

 

[The Dog 44775]

 

[Brisketexan 106670]

7 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

Yeah.....that scene actually makes me nervous and sad.

Remember the juxtaposed scenes in BOB?  Locals in Eindhoven celebrating the arrival of the liberators from the 101st.  Dancing and kissing and all that good stuff.  A couple of days later, booms and glowing on the horizon -- "we're bombing Eindhoven."  Counter-attacks are a bitch.

I am quite concerned that in the coming hours/days, Russian artillery on the other side of the river is going to lay absolute waste to Kherson.  Because that's what Russia does.  If I lived in Kherson, I'd be either prepping my below-ground shelter, or I'd be getting the hell outta dodge.

[The Dog 44775]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah.....that scene actually makes me nervous and sad.

Remember the juxtaposed scenes in BOB?  Locals in Eindhoven celebrating the arrival of the liberators from the 101st.  Dancing and kissing and all that good stuff.  A couple of days later, booms and glowing on the horizon -- "we're bombing Eindhoven."  Counter-attacks are a bitch.

I am quite concerned that in the coming hours/days, Russian artillery on the other side of the river is going to lay absolute waste to Kherson.  Because that's what Russia does.  If I lived in Kherson, I'd be either prepping my below-ground shelter, or I'd be getting the hell outta dodge.

valid point but I'm not sure they have the capability in the area. they also appear to be setting up defensive lines closer to Crimea. Russia left a LOT of gear behind and now Crimea is in HIMARS range. 

[Parliament 14572]

1 hour ago, UTGrad98 said:

US saying diplomacy possible. If you were Ukraine would you take this to end the war?

Russia keeps Crimea and dumbas regions. Immediate withdrawal of all troops

Ukraine keeps everything else, immediately is granted Nato status, is is able to prosecute all war crimes and receives reparations from Russia. 

Absofuckinglutely not. 

[Goredho 17631]

18 hours ago, LW Goatman said:

A friend is a missionary and learned a Ukrainian friend and her kids moved out to Texas while her husband stayed back to assist with the effort. He reached out to us because he knew nobody else in our little corner of Texas.

We were able to bring warm close for the kiddos, fresh cookies, and some other needed items. We got to deliver those items today. Small child proudly told me she was Ukrainian and her daddy was a hero. Mom spoke good enough English for us to get by on communications. My heart melted for these kids stuck in an apartment in Texas, the wife is so young, her husband defending their country. We have a generous friend who paid 6 months of their rent in a passing conversation about these people we had never met.

Glory to Ukraine.

This is fucking cool.  You or your friend should crowd source more when the 6 months runs out.

[CHIEF 5205]

2 hours ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I thought about going into history when I first got out of high school, but I just couldn't see any future in it.

My minor was history, if I took four semesters of a foreign language I would have a B.A.

One of the things that really stuck with me, in a military history class, Dr. Pierce (my professor) had a hypothesis that rifled barrels were the most significant development in warfare. He said it was what ultimately won the American Revolution, and was responsible for the carnage of the Civil War. The accuracy of rifled barrels has single-handedly killed more humans than practically anything else.

CHIEF

[Pato del Muerto 53351]

6 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

My minor was history, if I took four semesters of a foreign language I would have a B.A.

One of the things that really stuck with me, in a military history class, Dr. Pierce (my professor) had a hypothesis that rifled barrels were the most significant development in warfare. He said it was what ultimately won the American Revolution, and was responsible for the carnage of the Civil War. The accuracy of rifled barrels has single-handedly killed more humans than practically anything else.

CHIEF

Wasn’t the midi ball developed around the same time?

[SquishMitten 10493]

19 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

How do they get “trapped” on the east side of the river? They occupy all the territory from there east to the Russian border. I thought that was the point of them pulling back to there from west of the river. I figured the river would be their line of defense against Ukrainian forces to the west.

I feel like half the stories I've read on this mix up east-west and left-right banks. There have been a handful of times where I've pulled up a map trying to figure out things like "they're falling back to the east of the Dnieper to entrench themselves on the left bank." Like maybe there was a weird switchback in the river that made such a statement make sense? But I haven't been able to figure it out. Seems like a typo, but I've seen it so often I really don't know. 

ETA: I've now seen the error of my ways. Should've asked the question myself weeks ago.

Edited November 11, 2022 by SquishMitten

[Scheiss Meister 8453]

4 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

My minor was history, if I took four semesters of a foreign language I would have a B.A.

One of the things that really stuck with me, in a military history class, Dr. Pierce (my professor) had a hypothesis that rifled barrels were the most significant development in warfare. He said it was what ultimately won the American Revolution, and was responsible for the carnage of the Civil War. The accuracy of rifled barrels has single-handedly killed more humans than practically anything else.

CHIEF

This is a valid point, but I would argue that harnessing chemical reactions to propel projectiles is a more far reaching development.  Not only propelling balls, bullets, or shells from barrels, but propelling shrapnel from mines, shells, and bombs.  Add using explosives to cause pressure differentials to sink ships and submarines, or to bring down bridges and buildings.  Gunpowder was the first step in this line of development, so it gets the credit, but it is not alone.

[SquishMitten 10493]

18 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

if Ukraine really captures 15-20k troops on that side of the river it will royally fuck with Russia's ability to do anything.

 

keep in mind, at the start of the war, they only had 200k actual fighters.  They have lost over 100k as casualties, I realize a lot of these guys are now probably called up cannon fodder, but still if they get 20k new prisoners eliminates Russia's ability to counter attack in that area for probably a year or more.

I believe the troops in Kherson are actually some of the real military, meaning they're some of the remaining few that are actually NOT mobilized cannon fodder.  

[SquishMitten 10493]

18 hours ago, 27-25 said:

I think there may be some miscommunication here.  AFAIK when the Ukrainians talk about the right side of the river they describe it as one looks downstream along the river.  For the N-S flowing Dnieper that means right = west.  I suspect someone at some point saw "right" looked on a map and assumed this meant the eastern shore since that's to the right of the western shore.

The orcs on the east side are not trapped.  Yet.

That makes so much more sense! Thank you! Shit's been driving me crazy

[elfenix 34662]

don't go to paris

[SquishMitten 10493]

3 hours ago, utee94 said:

I've been working too much this week instead of spending all of my time reading Surly so I might have missed it-- were last week's fears that Russia was leaving Kherson as a trap, set to blow, unfounded?  They just left so quickly that we assumed it was a planned retreat and a dangerous trap, but in reality it was more like a rout?

Not a rout at all. The Russians said it was "a good will gesture!"

[Bevo 13831]

33 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

My minor was history, if I took four semesters of a foreign language I would have a B.A.

One of the things that really stuck with me, in a military history class, Dr. Pierce (my professor) had a hypothesis that rifled barrels were the most significant development in warfare. He said it was what ultimately won the American Revolution, and was responsible for the carnage of the Civil War. The accuracy of rifled barrels has single-handedly killed more humans than practically anything else.

CHIEF

I'm fairly certain that the miniskirt, invented in 1964, has killed more men.

[utee94 16071]

I prefer Left Bank Bordeaux over Right Bank, though they're both tasty.

 

Just felt like I should jump into the river bank discussion.

 

[Brisketexan 106670]

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I'm fairly certain that the miniskirt, invented in 1964, has killed more men.

Correction: it is known that the vagina, created in the Garden of Eden, is undefeated.

That has brought down more empires than all the steel and gunpowder of the world combined.

[RPM 26572]

2 hours ago, utee94 said:

 

They are going to need condos. Czervik is a trusted name in quick construction.

[27-25 2082]

At least Gallagher made it long enough to see the liberation of the land of Watermelons.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/11/entertainment/gallagher-comic-dead/index.html

[Gatorubet 30637]

4 hours ago, Fico said:

Now do Austerlitz

Or San Jacinto

[InkaUtexas 26809]

Just want to thank everyone for the great information and insight. UT History grad here. Did a lot on Military History but was focused on the Bosnian War and insurgencies in Latin America. 

Anyone interested in Military Geography I recommend John Collin's piece. Military Geography for Professionals and the Public. Gentleman's bio is fascinating. Had the pleasure of sharing lunch at Mt. Vernon with him before he passed. 

And @MillerEP great job keeping up with everything. We owe you a beer. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by InkaUtexas

[dimyh 1884]

4 hours ago, Fico said:

Now do Austerlitz

Hope that Kherson is the equivalent of the Battle of Ulm. An encirclement that reduced a significant portion of the Coalition's forces. Napoleon took out Austrian's main force before the Russians could join up and reinforce. Which eventually led to the coup de grace at Austerlitz.

[MillerEP 30844]

My undergrad degree at UT was in History, and I still have some of my veteran education benefits left, so if UT or one of the system schools ever rolls out an online History PhD program I can take while working full time, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I already accumulated some of the research material I'd use but decided to get a more useful MBA at grad school instead.

 

[MillerEP 30844]

 

[MillerEP 30844]

 

[MillerEP 30844]

^Yeah 90+% support in the referendum was totally legit

[InkaUtexas 26809]

5 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

My undergrad degree at UT was in History, and I still have some of my veteran education benefits left, so if UT or one of the system schools ever rolls out an online History PhD program I can take while working full time, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I already accumulated some of the research material I'd use but decided to get a more useful MBA at grad school instead.

 

Check our Norwich. It is where I want to go back to. Masters in Diplomacy. Would love to collaborate. Development on the Battlefield is my focus. You break it, we fix it, how do we do it together. Been a goal since Afghanistan to do this and finally done paying for my kid's education. 

Their football team sucks. But unlike Aggy, and the Russians, they are real Army. 

[MillerEP 30844]

 

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Check our Norwich. It is where I want to go back to. Masters in Diplomacy. Would love to collaborate. Development on the Battlefield is my focus. You break it, we fix it, how do we do it together. Been a goal since Afghanistan to do this and finally done paying for my kid's education. 

Their football team sucks. But unlike Aggy, and the Russians, they are real Army. 

If I want to use my veteran benefits it has to be a Texas State school, so UT, aTm, Tech, North Texas, Houston, SHSU, etc.

[JesusSweatDuck 18050]

When does Hungary get tossed out of the EU

[MillerEP 30844]

 

[InkaUtexas 26809]

4 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

 

If I want to use my veteran benefits it has to be a Texas State school, so UT, aTm, Tech, North Texas, Houston, SHSU, etc.

Masters or PHD? I have an idea I will toss over. DM me. but check out Norwich. We can petition and use the wreath fund. 

And yeah, why does UT not have an online option? 

[AUS-97HORN 11991]

Just now, JesusSweatDuck said:

When does Hungary get tossed out of the EU

the EU didnt kick Greece out when it was single-handedly dragging down the entire European economy

i dont think they can kick out Hungary.  someone with a special set up skills needs to go visit with Orban and literally beat his ass back into submission

 

 

 

[DDD Dad 14580]

4 hours ago, UTGrad98 said:

US saying diplomacy possible. If you were Ukraine would you take this to end the war?

Russia keeps Crimea and dumbas regions. Immediate withdrawal of all troops

Ukraine keeps everything else, immediately is granted Nato status, is is able to prosecute all war crimes and receives reparations from Russia. 

[MillerEP 30844]

 

[DDD Dad 14580]

1 hour ago, utee94 said:

I prefer Left Bank Bordeaux over Right Bank, though they're both tasty.

 

Just felt like I should jump into the river bank discussion.

 

You won't drink fucking Merlot!

[MillerEP 30844]

 

[The Dog 44775]