Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[Gatorubet 30401]

2 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Simplistic and facile. 

I read that in this voice:

“Simplistic and facile, simplistic and facile….”

[Superhero 8891]

3 hours ago, MillerEP said:

 

How many oligarchs are going to disappear before they all go into hiding (assuming they haven't already done so). 

No value added information below...

Mazepin gave the Haas F1 team a lot of money so his son could get a seat. His son got booted and the logo got replaced after Russia invaded Ukraine. Too bad for him, but maybe he shouldn't have been buddy buddy with Putin.

 

[MissingInAction 25299]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Italian satellites?

[Qanon-ing intensifies]

Where else would the Jewish space lasers be platformed?

[YGIFS 19453]

Holy shit, I had no idea when I cracked that joke that there really is a conspiracy theory called Italygate that the Q people traffic in regarding the 2020 election.  If the satellites can do all that, you'd think they could find a giant boat heading towards Russia from there.  

Every time I think, "Oh the silly, innocuous shit we toss around on surly...where do we come up with this stuff?"  And then bam, what we banter on about in comedic hyperbole, is actually political and religious gospel to some people.  

One day the war in Ukraine will end in their favor.  and we'll have to listen to family members with a straight face tell us it was all fabricated in a Moldovian sound stage using Jewish financing and Estonian crisis actors.  The war never happened and if it did, it was done to fill the coffers of NATO and undermine the legitimacy of Carrie Underwood as the winner of American Idol.  

[atomheartbevo 90053]

17 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Boy, this thing is going to be a logistics nightmare this spring and summer with all these various western systems coming into the theater. I don't see how they can feasibly maintain and repair all these different systems effectively. 

Ukraine has a massive agricultural and industrial/shipping base, there's a diesel-engine mechanic at every corner.

7 hours ago, Post Oak said:

Zeihan thinks that's what is going to happen and then those Euro countries will just buy Abrams instead of Leopards to fill their needs

We produced over 8,000 Abrams, and right now the US Army is fielding around 2,500 of those (most M1A2 SEPv2 or M1A1SA, with another 3,700 M1A1 and M1A2 in storage.

We could start shipping those older Abrams to Europe to backfill various armories in the short-term, and I'm sure we have the companies more than happy to work on modernizing any we ship over, at least in terms of electronics, powertrain, and weapons.

And here's a cool little fact about the upcoming AbramsX - it uses a diesel-electric hybrid that saves 50% in fuel over the current turbine-based Abrams (with the same amount of power).  But wait, there's more - because it's got a legit electric/battery system, they can run the turret and the sensors without turning on the engine, which is huge on the battlefield since it's quiet when the engine is off, and it doesn't instantly throw out a massive heat signature like you'd see when the diesel is turned on.

[atomheartbevo 90053]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

That post about the Russian Action Committee is wishcasting.

Yes, Putin’s regime has to die. And yes, it’s right to be concerned about what will replace it. And, I hate to break it to you, RAC…you don’t have a chance. Russian society and the Russian people aren’t going to take to “democracy and the rule of law.” Ever. I don’t know what the answer is, I just know that their plan is a pipe dream.

6 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

 So maybe the fault is Russia not having experienced their noses shoved in shit through an actual crushing military defeat killing lots of Russians and destroying their economy.   Not an economic depression like the collapse of the Soviet Union, but a good old fashioned military defeat coupled with a North Korean economy - and olds and widows not getting pensions anymore. 

Let’s do that and see how it turns out. Maybe they will collectively get right in their heads when the pain meter is set at 11 instead of at 5.  If not, let them spend the next 50 years in dirt clod fights between Russian villages over limited amounts of spoiled cabbage.

And not only will they be suffering under North Korean-style sanctions while undergoing a demographic catastrophe, their airliners won't fly, their cars will be even shittier, it'll be harder to get the latest and greatest Western goods, companies will have a hard time making payroll, and food may very well become an issue if their agricultural industry has problems with spare parts/machinery.

And maybe most importantly of all, China is going to be chowing down on their economy and their natural resources like nobody's business.  They can decide if they want to try and integrate with Europe like the former eastern Soviet republics have successfully done, or they can exist to serve China.

[Gatorubet 30401]

7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

And maybe most importantly of all, China is going to be chowing down on their economy and their natural resources like nobody's business. 

And as Chinese food, an hour later and they’ll be hungry again. 

[YGIFS 19453]

36 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Ukraine has a massive agricultural and industrial/shipping base, there's a diesel-engine mechanic at every corner.

We produced over 8,000 Abrams, and right now the US Army is fielding around 2,500 of those (most M1A2 SEPv2 or M1A1SA, with another 3,700 M1A1 and M1A2 in storage.

We could start shipping those older Abrams to Europe to backfill various armories in the short-term, and I'm sure we have the companies more than happy to work on modernizing any we ship over, at least in terms of electronics, powertrain, and weapons.

And here's a cool little fact about the upcoming AbramsX - it uses a diesel-electric hybrid that saves 50% in fuel over the current turbine-based Abrams (with the same amount of power).  But wait, there's more - because it's got a legit electric/battery system, they can run the turret and the sensors without turning on the engine, which is huge on the battlefield since it's quiet when the engine is off, and it doesn't instantly throw out a massive heat signature like you'd see when the diesel is turned on.

That's awesome to think about wrt the X's battery system and remaining quiet (well at least until the shooting starts).  I''m guessing it's shit like that though that's gonna make it hard to service though since no other armor platforms have that kind of technology and nobody in anywhere near the theater can repair it unless we've already started training them here.  I keep going back to that map of countries that can service the Leopard's and then all the way to Fort Benning for Abrams facilities.  How the fuck with all the armor we've parked in Europe in the last century do we not have a comprehensive Abrams repair/rearmament installation in Italy, Belgium, or Germany?  

[Bevo 13635]

Just now, YGIFS said:

That's awesome to think about wrt the X's battery system and remaining quiet (well at least until the shooting starts).  I''m guessing it's shit like that though that's gonna make it hard to service though since no other armor platforms have that kind of technology and nobody in anywhere near the theater can repair it unless we've already started training them here.  I keep going back to that map of countries that can service the Leopard's and then all the way to Fort Benning for Abrams facilities.  How the fuck with all the armor we've parked in Europe in the last century do we not have a comprehensive Abrams repair/rearmament installation in Italy, Belgium, or Germany?  

I wonder how long it takes to charge and how it is charged in the battlefield.

[MissingInAction 25299]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

I wonder how long it takes to charge and how it is charged in the battlefield.

Edited January 22, 2023 by MissingInAction

[Orange&White 5554]

I wonder how an electric tank fares when an EMP is dropped in the scene.

[YGIFS 19453]

3 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I wonder how long it takes to charge and how it is charged in the battlefield.

Good question, depends on if you opt for the long-range model at delivery.  

But seriously, that's a big challenge given it's "newness."  I would think the whole system was designed to carry an extra battery or two (but you don't want too reward the rare enemy capture of the tank and battery with too much loot); but also to have some sort of modified M1100/M1200 series armored carriers that could "carry" say a dozen fresh batteries around the battlefield to resupply tanks experiencing low battery warnings.  Obviously the driver of that thing would have an extra shitty job, "Uh Sarge, try not to get hit with BM-27 rocket.  We don't actually know what happens when a dozen of these batteries go up in flames all at once.  Don't breathe, whatever you do."  i would think it's more logistically feasible anyway than sending the AbramsX's back to the rear to charge up one at a time. 

Maybe they all eventually synch up like female roommates to conserve energy based on terrain, firefight activity, elements, etc.

[YGIFS 19453]

4 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

I wonder how an electric tank fares when an EMP is dropped in the scene.

Thankfully, those are rare.  The battery charging stations would be appealing targets.  But I'm guessing like most "hybrids" even in the world of heavy armor...have some sort of mode where you can still operate it old school (with limited performance/weapons deployment) to at least stay warm and get the hell outta dodge.  

[Parliament 14371]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

And here's a cool little fact about the upcoming AbramsX - it uses a diesel-electric hybrid that saves 50% in fuel over the current turbine-based Abrams (with the same amount of power).  But wait, there's more - because it's got a legit electric/battery system, they can run the turret and the sensors without turning on the engine, which is huge on the battlefield since it's quiet when the engine is off, and it doesn't instantly throw out a massive heat signature like you'd see when the diesel is turned on.

But how many cup holders will it have?  

13 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

I wonder how an electric tank fares when an EMP is dropped in the scene.

About as well as any other tank with at least one computer in it.

[Bevo 13635]

1 minute ago, Parliament said:

But how many cup holders will it have?  

About as well as any other tank with at least one computer in it.

Does it have a USB port?

[atomheartbevo 90053]

16 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

I wonder how an electric tank fares when an EMP is dropped in the scene.

They are tested against EMPs.  This is from a decade ago 

https://www.army.mil/article/74262/white_sands_tests_tank_for_us_ally

[MissingInAction 25299]

I would think the gas engine would charge the batteries when it's in use.

[Parliament 14371]

5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Does it have a USB port?

Yes, but at some oddball non-standard voltage.  Because...government.

[ABSR 5327]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Thankfully, those are rare.  The battery charging stations would be appealing targets.  But I'm guessing like most "hybrids" even in the world of heavy armor...have some sort of mode where you can still operate it old school (with limited performance/weapons deployment) to at least stay warm and get the hell outta dodge.  

This is not an electric vehicle but a hybrid.  Think Prius type energy use.  It’s battery is charged by the diesel engine and also by kinetic energy as it brakes and moves, but no charging station.

[MillerEP 30570]

 

[Parliament 14371]

What is Germany gonna block in that one?

[atomheartbevo 90053]

 

[Pods 7594]

Where is Mathias Rust when you need him?

[kevwun 15943]

The Abrams is the Michael Jordan of tanks.  It can destroy any tank on the battlefield while most of them can't even hurt it.  That's why the US doesn't care about it's fuel consumption and maintenance requirements.  Also Germany can't do anything similar like this with aviation because the F16 is the plane allies want to send to Ukraine.

Edited January 22, 2023 by kevwun

[956 Worldwide 34917]

 

[956 Worldwide 34917]

9 minutes ago, kevwun said:

The Abrams is the Michael Jordan of tanks.  It can destroy any tank on the battlefield while most of them can't even hurt it.  That's why the US doesn't care about it's fuel consumption and maintenance requirements.  Also Germany can't do anything similar like this with aviation because the F16 is the plane allies want to send to Ukraine.

The Dutch PM met with Biden in DC last week. Makes me think the F-16 has legs. Unlikely that they’d go off script so soon after a White House meet.

[Bateshorn 9951]

10 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Thankfully, those are rare.  The battery charging stations would be appealing targets.  But I'm guessing like most "hybrids" even in the world of heavy armor...have some sort of mode where you can still operate it old school (with limited performance/weapons deployment) to at least stay warm and get the hell outta dodge.  

You know, for a site full of Cockrell  engineering grads, I really wonder about you guys occasionally. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Bateshorn

[KYHorn 17274]

Caught a lancet

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by KYHorn

[KYHorn 17274]

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by KYHorn

[Chad Fuck 17840]

The Abrams is the Michael Jordan of tanks.  It can destroy any tank on the battlefield while most of them can't even hurt it.  That's why the US doesn't care about it's fuel consumption and maintenance requirements.  Also Germany can't do anything similar like this with aviation because the F16 is the plane allies want to send to Ukraine.

And there are a shit ton of F-16s in the boneyard in AZ just waiting for a second chance at the Ruskies.

[Bateshorn 9951]

I wanted to take a second to discuss the US political reasons behind the German tank intransigence.  If folks want to argue in detail about the domestic politics, kick it over to Cloakroom, but I just wanted to give 100k consequence of the November elections as a DC person. 
 

Following GOP takeover in the House, it has become conventional wisdom that we will be operating under a series of short term funding resolutions, flat funded appropriations, and possibly cuts over the next two years. It’s highly unlikely that there will be another major Ukraine funding bill that will make enough people happy to survive the politics of divided government.  I’m not CR-ing this: it’s just politics 101.  It’s equivalent of saying Nick Cage is weird.  There are basically 20 or so pro Russia House Members that can block anything, short of some sort of unique procedural trick that virtually never happens. 
 

The last Congress realized this, and during December did another Ukraine Bill, plus gave the President lend-lease authority and lots of other legal wiggle room in the Defense Authorization.  Basically, that’s gotta get Ukraine through the next election. 

Because the Abrams costs nearly $10 million a pop, retail, even giving the Ukrainians a few dozen, with all the necessary support, training, etc. will quickly eat up a massive chunk of the money the Administration has to stretch out over the next two years. That’s why we aren’t stepping in and saying “Let’s just roll the Abrams! Fuck them Krauts!” The Germans know this, and I’m sure have conditioned any Abrams we send on being fully supported, as opposed to just sending a few first gen Abrams to be parked on the outskirts of Kyiv for show. 
 

Putting aside all the other dysfunction in the German Government, Olaf has figured out a weak point in US domestic politics and is exploiting it for maximum leverage. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Bateshorn

[Bevo 13635]

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

I wanted to take a second to discuss the US political reasons behind the German tank intransigence.  If folks want to argue in detail about the domestic politics, kick it over to Cloakroom, but I just wanted to give 100k consequence of the November elections as a DC person. 
 

Following GOP takeover in the House, it has become conventional wisdom that we will be operating under a series of short term funding resolutions, flat funded appropriations, and possibly cuts over the next two years. It’s highly unlikely that there will be another major Ukraine funding bill that will make enough people happy to survive the politics of divided government.  I’m not CR-ing this: it’s just politics 101.  It’s equivalent of saying Nick Cage is weird.  There are basically 20 or so pro Russia House Members that can block anything, short of some sort of unique procedural trick that virtually never happens. 
 

The last Congress realized this, and during December did another Ukraine Bill, plus gave the President lend-lease authority and lots of other legal wiggle room in the Defense Authorization.  Basically, that’s gotta get Ukraine through the next election. 

Because the Abrams costs nearly $10 million a pop, retail, even giving the Ukrainians a few dozen, with all the necessary support, training, etc. will quickly eat up a massive chunk of the money the Administration has to stretch out over the next two years. That’s why we aren’t stepping in and saying “Let’s just roll the Abrams! Fuck them Krauts!” The Germans know this, and I’m sure have conditioned any Abrams we send on being fully supported, as opposed to just sending a few first gen Abrams to be parked on the outskirts of Kyiv for show. 
 

Putting aside all the other dysfunction in the German Government, Olaf has figured out a weak point in US domestic politics and is exploiting it for maximum leverage. 

You guys are sometimes way too US centric. The German government isn't sending Leopards because it doesn't want to send Leopards. It has a leader in Olaf who is a somewhat pro-Russian marxist who is trying to walk a fine line. He wants to be seen as pro-NATO and pro-Ukraine to keep the pro-Ukraine portion of the German populace pacified and to stay in good standing in the EU and not piss away Western markets. At the same time he wants to maintain a good relationship with Russia partly due to his own views but mainly due to his desire for cheap energy to fuel German production and keep inflation in check. Stagflation due to high gas prices and an economic slowdown will cause him and his cronies to lose elections at a much greater pace than his lack of support for Ukraine will.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Bevo

[Bateshorn 9951]

10 minutes ago, Bevo said:

You guys are sometimes way too US centric. The German government isn't sending Leopards because it doesn't want to send Leopards. It has a leader in Olaf who is a somewhat pro-Russian marxist who is trying to walk a fine line. He wants to be seen as pro-NATO and pro-Ukraine to keep the pro-Ukraine portion of the German populace pacified and to stay in good standing in the EU and not piss away Western markets. At the same time he wants to maintain a good relationship with Russia partly due to his own views but mainly due to his desire for cheap energy to fuel German production and keep inflation in check. Stagflation due to high gas prices and an economic slowdown will cause him and his cronies to lose elections at a much greater pace than his lack of support for Ukraine will.

Hence the reason he is tying the Leopards to the Abrams: it allows him an easy out instead of having to say no outright. and risk his governing coalition. He’s absolutely savvy about US politics. 
 

The Germans aren’t sending Leopards because they don’t want the Ukrainians to win. They also don’t want them to lose. Which is why they will send all the anti air weapons the Ukrainians want. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Bateshorn

[MillerEP 30570]

 

[Bevo 13635]

12 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Hence the reason he is tying the Leopards to the Abrams: it allows him an easy out instead of having to say no outright. and risk his governing coalition. He’s absolutely savvy about US politics. 
 

The Germans aren’t sending Leopards because they don’t want the Ukrainians to win. They also don’t want them to lose. Which is why they will send all the anti air weapons the Ukrainians want. 

As a separate issue, if Ukraine started gaining ground or Putin's government was in disarray, Germany would absolutely start sending lots of military aid. Everyone wants to back a winner.

[Bateshorn 9951]

I suspect that’s why the Dutch are starting to talk about putting together a group of EU partners to “buy” the Leopards: to give Scholz the out he needs here before the Poles start giving their Leopards to the Ukrainians without German approval and turn over the Fragile EU applecart. 
 

 

[MillerEP 30570]

 

[MillerEP 30570]

 

[MillerEP 30570]

 

[MillerEP 30570]

 

[MillerEP 30570]

 

[MillerEP 30570]

 

[JesusSweatDuck 17814]

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

Hence the reason he is tying the Leopards to the Abrams: it allows him an easy out instead of having to say no outright. and risk his governing coalition. He’s absolutely savvy about US politics. 
 

The Germans aren’t sending Leopards because they don’t want the Ukrainians to win. They also don’t want them to lose. Which is why they will send all the anti air weapons the Ukrainians want. 

He does risk losing some German military contracts. The US should leverage this and watch Germany fold because of the economic consequences 

[Storm the Field 5305]

43 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

 

Sidenote. The music in this video comes from a Swedish power metal band called Sabaton. Their entire schtick is songs about famous military battles and wars throughout history (and dressing in camo, having a prop tank onstage...etc.). I imagine they'll have enough material about Ukraine to fill their next several albums. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Storm the Field

[956 Worldwide 34917]

2 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

I wanted to take a second to discuss the US political reasons behind the German tank intransigence.  If folks want to argue in detail about the domestic politics, kick it over to Cloakroom, but I just wanted to give 100k consequence of the November elections as a DC person. 
 

Following GOP takeover in the House, it has become conventional wisdom that we will be operating under a series of short term funding resolutions, flat funded appropriations, and possibly cuts over the next two years. It’s highly unlikely that there will be another major Ukraine funding bill that will make enough people happy to survive the politics of divided government.  I’m not CR-ing this: it’s just politics 101.  It’s equivalent of saying Nick Cage is weird.  There are basically 20 or so pro Russia House Members that can block anything, short of some sort of unique procedural trick that virtually never happens. 
 

The last Congress realized this, and during December did another Ukraine Bill, plus gave the President lend-lease authority and lots of other legal wiggle room in the Defense Authorization.  Basically, that’s gotta get Ukraine through the next election. 

Because the Abrams costs nearly $10 million a pop, retail, even giving the Ukrainians a few dozen, with all the necessary support, training, etc. will quickly eat up a massive chunk of the money the Administration has to stretch out over the next two years. That’s why we aren’t stepping in and saying “Let’s just roll the Abrams! Fuck them Krauts!” The Germans know this, and I’m sure have conditioned any Abrams we send on being fully supported, as opposed to just sending a few first gen Abrams to be parked on the outskirts of Kyiv for show. 
 

Putting aside all the other dysfunction in the German Government, Olaf has figured out a weak point in US domestic politics and is exploiting it for maximum leverage. 

20 or so pro-Russia House members, FFS. I don’t disagree with you just seeing it spelled out makes my head hurt. 
 

I agree that Olaf is savvy about U.S. politics, he’s just too clever by half and is playing himself out of a leadership role in Europe. 

[956 Worldwide 34917]

30 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

 

Some clarification here, the Patriot batteries in Slovakia are not the Slovaks, they are (I believe) Dutch and American, maybe German. So this would be a three way trade.  
 

The Slovaks long ago send their own S-300 to Ukraine. 

[956 Worldwide 34917]

3 hours ago, kevwun said:

The Abrams is the Michael Jordan of tanks.  It can destroy any tank on the battlefield while most of them can't even hurt it.  That's why the US doesn't care about its fuel consumption and maintenance requirements.  Also Germany can't do anything similar like this with aviation because the F16 is the plane allies want to send to Ukraine.

They are gonna end up getting the Viper, but in all honesty I wish there were more JAS-39 Gripens floating around because that’s really the platform for the Ukrainians in an ideal world. You trade a bit of performance but the avionics are better than the older Vipers, they are cheaper per sortie, and can fly from improvised airstrips. 

[atomheartbevo 90053]

38 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

Sidenote. The music in this video comes from a Swedish power metal band called Sabaton. Their entire schtick is songs about famous military battles and wars throughout history (and dressing in camo, having a prop tank onstage...etc.). I imagine they'll have enough material about Ukraine to fill their next several albums. 

@RDCanecutter and I have a new favorite band. 

[Gatorubet 30401]

17 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

@RDCanecutter and I have a new favorite band. 

 

I’m gonna reserve Judgment until I hear a cut on the Battle of Salamis. 

[Brisketexan 105572]

[mention=281]RDCanecutter[/mention] and I have a new favorite band. 

My son got into them when he was younger and going through his military history stage. Their song about the Warsaw Uprising is pretty cool.