Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[BamaATL 16593]

7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

@956 Worldwide or anybody else familiar with the region - who do you think is the target audience of Russian state media at this point, when they go on their rants about Ukraine and try to make it literally biblical or are talking about sacrifice?  They know people in the West see these shows (Julia Davis has been sanctioned by Russia, and they've directly commented during these shows that they know the West will see them).  They know most young people are tuned into streaming or social media (if they want to see stuff about Ukraine) rather than watching this stuff.

Some of the stuff was probably meant for Western consumption (like the mention of nuking NATO members for supporting UKraine), but Julia Davis has said in the past it's mostly the olds/rurals who are still mostly watching TV the old-fashioned way, unless there is some major announcement that everybody knows about (Putin giving a speech, etc.).  Here we are on day 400 something of the 3-day war, and I'd imagine the olds/rurals would get tired of this at some point.  Yeah, there are highlight reels of Russian troops doing stuff in Ukraine (Davis shies away from showing the more violent stuff in her highlights, trying to stay away from things that could get her videos delisted or demonitized or whatever), but it's not much and if your kid is fighting for Russia in Ukraine, you're probably seeing videos of him that he's texted/messaged. It's usually just these people sitting around spouting off about new ways that Ukraine is horrible or what Russia is going to do, but not actual specifics.

Putin can't be the audience of one, because these are his people (Margarita reports directly to him, and a few others don't have many people between them and Putin's office, or they are Duma members) and they have to clear this stuff with his underlings, so it's not some rogue Duma member trying to get through to Putin.  Those of us who are men (and women) because we are in our 40s, probably remember the Politburo from our youth when it was still the Soviet Union, and if you look back, there are times where Soviet state media would put stuff out directly for the Politburo's consumption (kind of a message from the Premier), but today's Duma members are all very active on social media for the most part (or their interns are), and if Putin wanted to send them a message, he'd probably just have somebody personally deliver it.

It's interesting - I've followed Davis and a few others (Dmitri/War Translated), and I'm going to do a deep dive sometime on Soviet coverage of Afghanistan, but my impression is that they kept that a lot more of Afghanistan on the down low, but they can't do that in 2022-2023 with Ukraine because social media means stuff gets out.

Maybe it's a lot more simple and is just Russian state media trying to stay ahead of Russian social media in Ukraine, or trying to be so outlandish when it comes to Ukraine that it diminishes some of the social media stuff that leaks out (something bad out of Ukraine gets passed around on Russian social media, Russian state TV hosts start talking about rivers of fire in Ukraine, etc. and how the Motherland must be ready for sacrifice).

 

I saw a thing on PBS about Putin and media, it was about an hour long, but more or less the target audience is entirely internal.  The Russian people have been conditioned to believe that the world is entirely about great powers, and that of course Russia is certainly that.  We as American's tend think of them as an economically minor player on the world stage (which is true); that just happens to have nuclear weapons, the only reason for average American's to ever give them any pause.  Were it not for that, we wouldn't think of them much at all (aside from the current situation).  That drives right at their collective psyche, they can't fathom the notion that we are as dismissive as we are of them, because, again, they've been conditioned to believe they are a great power.  Due to that conditioning, they bring us up as a near constant bogeyman, and that anything beset against them is just us pulling puppet strings.  

It's sort of like this; it's clear its unhealthy to have the constant belief that the world is beset against you and you are persecuted.   That's delusional;' the truth is no one would ever really pay them mind at all were it not for the nukes.  However, if you have this mindset, you need a villain and we make that for them.  Putin uses this mindset to justify his actions internally.  However, the powers the be in Russia look at us as being entirely stable (militarily anyway) and not prone to actually doing anything about them just spewing bullshit in the media.  So they spew it at their own audience for their consumption to reinforce the mindset and are basically using us for that purpose.  It's also a great smoke screen to avoid the elephant in the room which is that they basically have no domestic platform whatsoever (this may well be the real overriding reason).  

So it serves at least 2 principle reasons, although its more nuanced than that.  

[InkaUtexas 26264]

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

What NAFO doing?

Crimea Beach Party 2023 talk not going away.

We keep bonking away. 

[Gatorubet 30330]

3 hours ago, Parliament said:

Why haven't those dipshits spent the last 30 years building pipelines to the east? 

Uh…

[Gatorubet 30330]

4 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I saw a thing on PBS about Putin and media, it was about an hour long, but more or less the target audience is entirely internal.  The Russian people have been conditioned to believe that the world is entirely about great powers, and that of course Russia is certainly that.  We as American's tend think of them as an economically minor player on the world stage (which is true); that just happens to have nuclear weapons, the only reason for average American's to ever give them any pause.  Were it not for that, we wouldn't think of them much at all (aside from the current situation).  That drives right at their collective psyche, they can't fathom the notion that we are as dismissive as we are of them, because, again, they've been conditioned to believe they are a great power.  Due to that conditioning, they bring us up as a near constant bogeyman, and that anything beset against them is just us pulling puppet strings.  

It's sort of like this; it's clear its unhealthy to have the constant belief that the world is beset against you and you are persecuted.   That's delusional  So they spew it at their own audience for their consumption to reinforce the mindset and are basically using us for that purpose. 

<Brisket> So, Aggy? </Brisket>

[BamaATL 16593]

Since I did such a shit job paraphrasing an hour long interview with a professor from Yale, I went and found it

 

[Kwix 2200]

I hate it when some fuckwad earns a spot on the ignore list while I'm browsing on mobile. So much easier on desktop. 

[bolverk 29779]

There's also this excellent Anthony Bourdain piece. It's long, but you only have to watch the first few minutes to see how some Russians view Putin.

h/t: @cactusflinthead

Edited April 3, 2023 by bolverk

[Gatorubet 30330]

28 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If we're going with that metaphor, Putin shouldn't have invaded Ukraine at all.  He should have used his considerable charm and sense of humor to seduce Ukraine into joining him for a threesome with Belarus.

This metaphor may be getting a bit strained, but work with me here.

premature eradication?

[atomheartbevo 89891]

40 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

So it serves at least 2 principle reasons, although its more nuanced than that.  

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense and will watch that documentary.

You'd have to be Julia Davis or Dimitri/@WarTranslated to have been able to do this (I don't have time to go back through a hundred hours of her videos), but it would be fascinating to see a timeline of major shit happening in Ukraine lined up with the main talking point of that night's coverage of Ukraine on Russian state TV. I do think there is some correlation there - it seems like we get the most batshit stuff (biblical, talks of nukes, etc) when major things are about to happen (such as new deals for equipment or training), or when Russia has had setbacks that they can't hide.

That inferiority complex and that massaging the Russian population's views on the outside world has to have the occasional course correction though, even if it's only temporary, and that makes me think that when you get people on there that are talking about "are we losing" or "are we going to lose" or "why aren't we winning as much", that it's just a blip meant to snap things back to reality a little bit.  Like I said, and from what Davis and Dmitri and other Russian speakers have said, almost everything said on the main shows is scripted (even if loosely) and run by Putin's people (and Margarita would be one of those people as the head of RT).  Nobody is going to question Putin's competence on there, but they can single out instances of problems in the system and blame people/corruption, with a nod that it will be fixed.

Edit: Would be fascinating to take a run through a bunch of those video highlights and pull the main topics out, and try to put yourself in the shoes of some Russian old or rural and say okay "okay, imagine if my perception of the war in Ukraine was based almost completely on what the Russian state TV shows at night are saying."

And like I said, I'm going to look at their coverage of Afghanistan.

Edited April 3, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[Captainant 27882]

24 minutes ago, bolverk said:

There's also this excellent Anthony Bourdain piece. It's long, but you only have to watch the first few minutes to see how some Russians view Putin.

h/t: @cactusflinthead

Some interesting comparisons made around the 6 minute mark too. This whole video is a fucking trip, considering our own current events and some of the dire predictions of the host's dad of how everything will suddenly collapse due to the massive inequality and imbalance of power in the russian society.

With those social forces at play, I really can't see putin having that much more time on the clock for his attempt at consuming Ukraine. 

[SaucyJack 3504]

3 hours ago, BamaATL said:

The head dildo harness is really a nice touch.  Add a burlap bag for the fun hijinks of literally sending him a sack of dicks.  

[MillerEP 30501]

 

[BamaATL 16593]

17 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

 

Why is Putin acting like my wife? I get called a crazy idiot all the time

[Born to Run 6570]

I saw a thing on PBS about Putin and media, it was about an hour long, but more or less the target audience is entirely internal.  The Russian people have been conditioned to believe that the world is entirely about great powers, and that of course Russia is certainly that.  We as American's tend think of them as an economically minor player on the world stage (which is true); that just happens to have nuclear weapons, the only reason for average American's to ever give them any pause.  Were it not for that, we wouldn't think of them much at all (aside from the current situation).  That drives right at their collective psyche, they can't fathom the notion that we are as dismissive as we are of them, because, again, they've been conditioned to believe they are a great power.  Due to that conditioning, they bring us up as a near constant bogeyman, and that anything beset against them is just us pulling puppet strings.  
It's sort of like this; it's clear its unhealthy to have the constant belief that the world is beset against you and you are persecuted.   That's delusional;' the truth is no one would ever really pay them mind at all were it not for the nukes.  However, if you have this mindset, you need a villain and we make that for them.  Putin uses this mindset to justify his actions internally.  However, the powers the be in Russia look at us as being entirely stable (militarily anyway) and not prone to actually doing anything about them just spewing bullshit in the media.  So they spew it at their own audience for their consumption to reinforce the mindset and are basically using us for that purpose.  It's also a great smoke screen to avoid the elephant in the room which is that they basically have no domestic platform whatsoever (this may well be the real overriding reason).  
So it serves at least 2 principle reasons, although its more nuanced than that.  

So Russia is Aggie?

[atomheartbevo 89891]

46 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Some interesting comparisons made around the 6 minute mark too. This whole video is a fucking trip, considering our own current events and some of the dire predictions of the host's dad of how everything will suddenly collapse due to the massive inequality and imbalance of power in the russian society.

With those social forces at play, I really can't see putin having that much more time on the clock for his attempt at consuming Ukraine. 

I was on the fence for a long time, since he controls the media and can jail anybody who criticizes the war in Ukraine or him, but I don't think he survives it either.  Lot of parallels to the Soviets/Afghanistan in the late 1980s, only this time around, the Russian people can see almost instantly and unfiltered what is going on.  And they can sort of talk about it in large numbers through social media (just have to be careful not to be go too far).  

With Afghanistan, it gets lost in the shuffle of the bigger economic and international relations issues that were credited for ending it, but the Soviet soldiers mothers group(s) were a big driving force in opening up the debate about the war, and actually went up against the military/Politburo, exposing conditions their sons were going through (unlike now where everybody can see th one conditions). However, as long as there is a promise of some kind of payout (no, not a Lada) in terms of holding onto Ukrainian territory, he might survive it if he ended it on his terms and could claim he somehow reduced the threat, and if he avoided any major conscription/riots in Moscow or St Petersburg.  But if the Russians get pushed out of DPR/LPR or Crimea, all those videos of Russian men begging for guns, ammo, first aid kits, etc. will come back into play.

Oh, and there is the prospect of suddenly dumping a few hundred thousand Russian soldiers who have went through absolute hell back into Russian society, and if they can't hold DPR/LPR or Crimea (or all), and those men are floating around in society wondering why the fuck they had to go through hell in Ukraine all for nothing, and even worse, if they are somehow blamed for losing DPR/LPR or Crimea, yeah that will be a powder keg.  And that's before we get into alcoholism, PTSD (which you know the government won't treat), etc.  We already see Russian soldiers living almost like animals, and we see the atrocities they commit.  If I'm Putin I may try to keep those men as far away from Russia proper as long as possible, or ship them to bases far away from their hometowns.

[Serak The Preparer 3434]

@atomheartbevo - Huh, I had never thought about it but I would not have guessed that Julia Davis was white. Your comment made me look up her bio - I am sure you know this is but for the dimwits like me, she is Ukrainian. Makes her translations / monitoring of propaganda hit a little more now.

Also while Googling found a recent (9 days ago) hour-long interview with her on YouTube. I have not watched it, but you may find it interesting. I did skim around and at the 45 minute mark they go into a little bit of the purpose of the Russian propaganda. One thing I hadn't thought about isn't necessarily exciting Russians but getting them to keep doing nothing in terms of stopping / protesting Putin.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Serak The Preparer

[Mullet Free 39]

4 hours ago, bolverk said:

Although Russia's widespread overt and covert actions against all of the West have been going on for at least a decade, @blacklab has made it clear that he wants to restrict the conversation in this thread to only be on the conflict in the Ukrainian theater. Otherwise, certain posters will get offended and will report them, necessitating the deletion of those subjects.

Nordstream: off-topic

Japanese oil imports: off-topic

Iranian drone imports: off-topic

Sanna Marin's hotness: off-topic

And I quote:

 

 

Pobrecito 

[BamaATL 16593]

This is a fantastic read, I highly recommend, has some points about the modern situation and it's build up.  

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/cuba/missile-crisis-secret-history-soviet-union-russia-ukraine-lessons

[Rimbo 26174]

8 hours ago, The Dog said:

this aged like milk:

I honestly didn't know who this was, so I googled him.

Yep. Seems par for the course, for a vatnik.

[Rimbo 26174]

8 hours ago, Serak The Preparer said:

I know this is a Surly meme now but come on @immamac: this has to be new site motto?

I didn't actually dislike your comment. I just felt it had every OTHER reaction possible, and wanted it to be perfect.

 

I'll +rep you elsewhere to make up for it

[Rimbo 26174]

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

@SydneyCarton had the right idea. Russia spent years trying to make themselves indispensable for Europe for political, not economic reasons. They wanted to blackmail and hold Europe hostage. China would just as soon freeze its citizens. 
 

Russia’s western energy policy vice Western neighbours dates back to the Cold War. It’s also a tacit admission that first, Russia views the West as more stable and prosperous (true) and second that Russia has conflicting attitudes about where it belongs (also true). They have basically bluffed themselves into pairing with China. 

Not so much "pairing with" as "submitting to."

Doesn't look like submission yet, but give it time.

[Gatorubet 30330]

42 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I honestly didn't know who this was, so I googled him.

Yep. Seems par for the course, for a vatnik.

I truly think that Surly owes it to him to have us ask whether he’s a sex offender in every one of his posts

Edit: scum’s twitter account is suspended 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Gatorubet

[Deej 77005]

6 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

I truly think that Surly owes it to him to have us ask whether he’s a sex offender in every one of his posts

His account was suspended. Shucks.

[Gatorubet 30330]

46 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I honestly didn't know who this was, so I googled him.

Yep. Seems par for the course, for a vatnik.

Quote

Ritter was the subject of two law enforcement sting operations in 2001.^[36] He was charged in June 2001 with trying to set up a meeting with an undercover police officer posing as a 16-year-old girl.^[37][38] He was charged with a misdemeanor crime of "attempted endangerment of the welfare of a child". The charge was dismissed and the record was sealed after he completed six months of pre-trial probation.^[38][8] After this information was made public in early 2003, Ritter said that the timing of the leak was politically motivated in order to silence his opposition to the Bush administration's push toward war with Iraq.^[37][38][39]

Ritter was arrested again in November 2009^[40] over communications with a police decoy he met on an Internet chat site. Police said that he exposed himself, via a web camera, after the officer repeatedly identified himself as a 15-year-old girl.^[5] Ritter said in his own testimony during the trial that he believed the other party was an adult acting out her fantasy.^[7] The chat room had an "age 18 and above" policy, which Ritter stated to the undercover officer.^[5]

The next month, Ritter waived his right to a preliminary hearing and was released on $25,000 unsecured bail. Charges included "unlawful contact with a minor, criminal use of a communications facility, corruption of minors, indecent exposure, possessing instruments of crime, criminal attempt and criminal solicitation".^[2] Ritter rejected a plea bargain and was found guilty of all but the criminal attempt count in a courtroom in Monroe County, Pennsylvania, on April 14, 2011.

And a really stupid sex offender at that…

[atomheartbevo 89891]

1 hour ago, Serak The Preparer said:

I did skim around and at the 45 minute mark they go into a little bit of the purpose of the Russian propaganda. One thing I hadn't thought about isn't necessarily exciting Russians but getting them to keep doing nothing in terms of stopping / protesting Putin.

That could tie into what @BamaATL was talking about - try to convince a number of them that this is the way things are, their place in the world, etc. and that the war in Ukraine was/is inevitable and has to be resolved because it's a Russian problem.

As for Davis, yeah her being Ukrainian, it's got to be weird as hell to be monitoring this stuff and putting out the highlights, knowing that these people are saying this shit about her country.

[Serak The Preparer 3434]

58 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I didn't actually dislike your comment. I just felt it had every OTHER reaction possible, and wanted it to be perfect.

 

I'll +rep you elsewhere to make up for it

 

[InkaUtexas 26264]

22 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

I truly think that Surly owes it to him to have us ask whether he’s a sex offender in every one of his posts

Edit: scum’s twitter account is suspended 

NAFO been working it. 

[Pato del Muerto 52666]

I don’t think that guy above ever read or watched TKAM.  
 

if anything, Atticus is nato/Europe, ukraine is tom Robinson, and the angry townspeople wanting their pound of flesh are russia. 

[InkaUtexas 26264]

Folks, please don't fuck up this news thread. There is one for politics. 

[cactusflinthead 27609]

4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Folks, please don't fuck up this news thread. There is one for politics. 

It's not difficult to see the line. 

Don't go offsides. Stay in your stance.

[BamaATL 16593]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

That could tie into what @BamaATL was talking about - try to convince a number of them that this is the way things are, their place in the world, etc. and that the war in Ukraine was/is inevitable and has to be resolved because it's a Russian problem.

As for Davis, yeah her being Ukrainian, it's got to be weird as hell to be monitoring this stuff and putting out the highlights, knowing that these people are saying this shit about her country.

I think we tendency to apply norms that we have towards a place like Russia and it just doesn't fit.  The average Russian  doesn't feel like they have any sort of station in the political process, nor have they ever.  Of course to us, we all feel we have a voice regardless of how small, and that this voice matters; which is true when we vote.  Russians view voting as meaningless, and they buy that elections mean nothing, in part because of propaganda, but in part because of history.  Russia has always been a society run by the "elites", even when they were the Soviet Union.  Basically, your average Russian feels they have no voice in the political process, and as a result they are generally speaking indifferent to it.  

Sort of like saying, "my life sucks under Putin, but it will continue to suck when whoever else takes over, so who cares?"  The internal propaganda is designed as slight of hand to give people a bad guy (American's) focus all their attention on us being the cause of all their problems, while completely white washing all their internal problems, like not having universal indoor plumbing.  So while the oligarch's run off with all the money, and Putin stashes $600 billion of what should be money going to civil services, infrastructure, education, etc, the bad guy is the United States.  

It's evil, but effective and at least a somewhat clever way to get idiot masses to not pay attention while they are being institutionally robbed in broad daylight.  

[cactusflinthead 27609]

7 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

idiot masses

It's way the hell back there but there's a video of some woman coming to the hinterlands to get men to sign up for the war. They told her to fuck off. 

At one point she asked if they watched the news on TV.

No bitch, that's why I can still think.

They know it's bullshit. At least some of them do. They were ok with going along with it when Putin inc. was doing normal Russian theft but when it's at the cost of their lives for nothing that's different. We don't hear how many of those dead officers were fragged. That chick that blew up a Wagner mouthpiece I'm betting was just another 20something a couple of years ago 

Again, we don't know shit about what gets said in private off the TV and in small villages. That's why these intercepted phone calls are so valuable. That's someone talking comfortably. That's the unrefined rage at being cannon fodder. 

 

[PTINS 3486]

4 hours ago, BamaATL said:

I saw a thing on PBS ESPN about Putin ATM and media, it was about an hour a hundred years long, but more or less the target audience is entirely internal 100% aggy.  The Russian people aggys have been conditioned to believe that the sports world is entirely about great powers, and that of course Russia TAMU is certainly that.  We as American's tend think of them as an economically academic and sports minor player on the world national stage (which is true); that just happens to have nuclear weapons one-third of the Permanent University Fund, the only reason for average American's to ever give them any pause.  Were it not for that, we wouldn't think of them much at all (aside from the current situation).  That drives right at their collective psyche, they can't fathom the notion that we are as dismissive as we are of them, because, again, they've been conditioned to believe they are a great power.  Due to that conditioning, they bring us Texas up as a near constant bogeyman, and that anything beset against them is just us pulling puppet strings Texas controlling the Liberal media.  

It's sort of like this; it's clear its unhealthy to have the constant belief that the world is beset against you and you are persecuted.   That's delusional;' the truth is no one would ever really pay them mind at all were it not for the nukes  money and the the stupid ways they spend it. However, if you have this mindset, you need a villain and we the Longhorns make that for them.  Putin Bowtie, Sharp & Jimbo uses this mindset to justify his their actions internally.  However, the powers the be in Russia normal society look at us as being entirely stable (militarily rationally anyway) and not prone to actually doing anything about them just spewing bullshit in the media.  So they spew it at their own audience for their consumption to reinforce the mindset and are basically using us for that purpose.  It's also a great smoke screen to avoid the elephant in the room which is that they basically have no domestic platform consistent sports success or history whatsoever (this may well be the real overriding reason).  

So it serves at least 2 principle reasons, although its more nuanced than that.  

I know lotsa people already commented, but I had to ...

[atomheartbevo 89891]

So the woman they arrested for killing the Wagner blogger, she maybe the real deal, but only IF the officials are to be believed - supposedly she is a support of Navalny, she was supposedly arrested at an anti-war demonstration last year, and she's in videos from the event, including carrying in the statue, and interacting with the guy, and sitting near by.  There's videos of her outside after the bombing as well, and she had a cell phone.  

IF she's legit, she may have triggered it with a phone, but talk about ballsy since she was inside there, but then again, she could have gotten up, went to a restroom and *boom*

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-04-03-23/index.html

I don't see them being competent enough to fake video of her being there and walking around, and after the blast, that quickly, and they had a handle on everybody who was inside since they were keeping everybody at the scene after it happened- all they had to do was look at footage of whoever carried it into the event, and there's out of of your police work right there.

Well, they have to figure out who made the bomb.  Which I still think was from Putin, and he just used some anti-war group to pull it off.

They still claim Ukraine did it, but a bomb in a statue of the guy is the most Putin way ever of sending a message.

Edited April 4, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[BamaATL 16593]

Quick, call OSHA, I don't think those guys were tied off

 

[PTINS 3486]

45 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I think we tendency to apply norms that we have towards a place like Russia and it just doesn't fit.  ...  your average Russian feels they have no voice ..., and as a result they are generally speaking indifferent to ...  not having universal indoor plumbing.   

It's evil, but effective and at least a somewhat clever way to get idiot masses to not pay attention while they are being institutionally robbed in broad daylight.  

... and they rape and murder and steal and destroy everything that others have just because they are too fucking spineless/stupid/ignorant to do anything about it.

I read Machiavelli's The Prince with great interest as a freshman, and my core philosophy (catholic upbringing) was much different, that people are basically good.  Life is a cruel teacher at times, and my initial beliefs have been challenged time again over the years. 

Reading this thread, and everything related to it, for the past 400 days, convinced me that Russia and Russians are pure evil, who have no desire to change and fit into civilized society. 

"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until ...."   

There is only one way this can be allowed to end.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

2 hours ago, Rimbo said:

I honestly didn't know who this was, so I googled him.

Yep. Seems par for the course, for a vatnik.

My brother would send me his shit all the time at the beginning of the war.  I basically did ad hominem responses after a while stuff like “look, I just disagree with the pedophile I suppose”

[Pods 7594]

2 hours ago, PTINS said:

... and they rape and murder and steal and destroy everything that others have just because they are too fucking spineless/stupid/ignorant to do anything about it.

I read Machiavelli's The Prince with great interest as a freshman, and my core philosophy (catholic upbringing) was much different, that people are basically good.  Life is a cruel teacher at times, and my initial beliefs have been challenged time again over the years. 

Reading this thread, and everything related to it, for the past 400 days, convinced me that Russia and Russians are pure evil, who have no desire to change and fit into civilized society. 

"Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until ...."   

There is only one way this can be allowed to end.

Spot on. Any other "ending" would only be a temporary pause for Putin to refit and then go after Georgia, and/or Moldova, and/or the Baltics, and/or Poland, and/or Ukraine again, if anything is left. 

It would also embolden China with regards to Taiwan. 

The geopolitical stakes are massive.

Ukraine must win. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Pods

[atomheartbevo 89891]

2 hours ago, PTINS said:

Reading this thread, and everything related to it, for the past 400 days, convinced me that Russia and Russians are pure evil, who have no desire to change and fit into civilized society. 

My impressions of Russia before February of last year was that they had some really solid IT people, the major cities were pretty "cosmopolitan" for lack of a better word, and they had quite a few Western influences (same videogames, restaurants, etc. as the West).  I knew a big chunk of it was rural, and I mean really fucking rural, the kind of rural that you don't get in the US, from comments my dad and uncle had made when they worked over there on an oil project.  After last year's invasion, I made the mistake of watching a bunch of YouTube videos of some redhead in Russia visiting these remote areas, including one town that is way the fuck up north, and where basically everybody is indoor all winter in some big-ass buildings because of the cold, but they seemed to have internet, all had electricity, and she was like "see were just like you all, it's just colder and we take trains".  But holy fuck the rural areas were rural.  It's like being out in Alpine and the nearest Walmart be in Arizona or  Kansas or some shit.

And then we watch them stealing fucking toilets and washing machines from Ukrainians.  A lot of toilets and washing machines, and you're like "what kind of "civilization" are these rural folks living in?"

[956 Worldwide 34869]

8 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

@956 Worldwide or anybody else familiar with the region - who do you think is the target audience of Russian state media at this point, when they go on their rants about Ukraine and try to make it literally biblical or are talking about sacrifice?  They know people in the West see these shows (Julia Davis has been sanctioned by Russia, and they've directly commented during these shows that they know the West will see them).  They know most young people are tuned into streaming or social media (if they want to see stuff about Ukraine) rather than watching this stuff.

Some of the stuff was probably meant for Western consumption (like the mention of nuking NATO members for supporting UKraine), but Julia Davis has said in the past it's mostly the olds/rurals who are still mostly watching TV the old-fashioned way, unless there is some major announcement that everybody knows about (Putin giving a speech, etc.).  Here we are on day 400 something of the 3-day war, and I'd imagine the olds/rurals would get tired of this at some point.  Yeah, there are highlight reels of Russian troops doing stuff in Ukraine (Davis shies away from showing the more violent stuff in her highlights, trying to stay away from things that could get her videos delisted or demonitized or whatever), but it's not much and if your kid is fighting for Russia in Ukraine, you're probably seeing videos of him that he's texted/messaged. It's usually just these people sitting around spouting off about new ways that Ukraine is horrible or what Russia is going to do, but not actual specifics.

Putin can't be the audience of one, because these are his people (Margarita reports directly to him, and a few others don't have many people between them and Putin's office, or they are Duma members) and they have to clear this stuff with his underlings, so it's not some rogue Duma member trying to get through to Putin.  Those of us who are men (and women) because we are in our 40s, probably remember the Politburo from our youth when it was still the Soviet Union, and if you look back, there are times where Soviet state media would put stuff out directly for the Politburo's consumption (kind of a message from the Premier), but today's Duma members are all very active on social media for the most part (or their interns are), and if Putin wanted to send them a message, he'd probably just have somebody personally deliver it.

It's interesting - I've followed Davis and a few others (Dmitri/War Translated), and I'm going to do a deep dive sometime on Soviet coverage of Afghanistan, but my impression is that they kept that a lot more of Afghanistan on the down low, but they can't do that in 2022-2023 with Ukraine because social media means stuff gets out.

Maybe it's a lot more simple and is just Russian state media trying to stay ahead of Russian social media in Ukraine, or trying to be so outlandish when it comes to Ukraine that it diminishes some of the social media stuff that leaks out (something bad out of Ukraine gets passed around on Russian social media, Russian state TV hosts start talking about rivers of fire in Ukraine, etc. and how the Motherland must be ready for sacrifice).

 

Your bolded is pretty close to correct, IMO.  Important not to overstate the “no one is watching” argument. These channels still have lots of “regular,” pretty decent quality entertainment programs and a more serious version on the news. Still propaganda, but dressed up as the news.

Beyond that, the purpose of this stuff isn’t to be necessarily consumed actively, but to be repeated, absorbed, to become the background noise of your daily life.  No Soviet citizens stood around closely reading and examining those old propaganda posters, either. And many of them would have said they were bullshit, if asked in private. But they serve the important function of setting the official narrative, the lines that must be repeated, and the grocery store soundtrack for a society that has to justify itself to itself. 

 

[956 Worldwide 34869]

27 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

My impressions of Russia before February of last year was that they had some really solid IT people, the major cities were pretty "cosmopolitan" for lack of a better word, and they had quite a few Western influences (same videogames, restaurants, etc. as the West).  I knew a big chunk of it was rural, and I mean really fucking rural, the kind of rural that you don't get in the US, from comments my dad and uncle had made when they worked over there on an oil project.  After last year's invasion, I made the mistake of watching a bunch of YouTube videos of some redhead in Russia visiting these remote areas, including one town that is way the fuck up north, and where basically everybody is indoor all winter in some big-ass buildings because of the cold, but they seemed to have internet, all had electricity, and she was like "see were just like you all, it's just colder and we take trains".  But holy fuck the rural areas were rural.  It's like being out in Alpine and the nearest Walmart be in Arizona or  Kansas or some shit.

And then we watch them stealing fucking toilets and washing machines from Ukrainians.  A lot of toilets and washing machines, and you're like "what kind of "civilization" are these rural folks living in?"

Rural Russia is truly rural. Like 19th century rural, maybe some electricity and cell coverage. But those places are dying and not a lot of soldiers are coming from there. 
 

The washing machines and toilets and stuff— it’s as simple as the fact that the stuff at home is crumbling old Soviet shit, and even in decent size towns in the North Caucuses or in Buriyatia— IKEA isn’t there yet. Anyone who knows any Russians will be familiar with the never-ending process of “reconstruction” of old Soviet flats.  These guys are just grabbing newer stuff to send home because they’ve promised their wives to remodel and why buy something when you can steal it? They have indoor plumbing, it’s just a stinky old Soviet model that takes a few flushes and a brush to get all the shit down the hole. 

[956 Worldwide 34869]

 

[956 Worldwide 34869]

[atomheartbevo 89891]

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

 

One of the tweets in that thread mentioned in passing the ratio between professional versus mobilized soldiers.

That would be a helluva change between February of 2022, when the majority were professionals, but even the conscripts would have still had 8-10 months of service and would have been fully-trained, versus now when the major units have had their training units/battalions scrapped and conscripts/mobilized have a few weeks of training and a massive amount of the professionals have been killed.

[WhatTheBuck 28823]

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Reported!

[Schulz2.0 29021]

Long thread from Kofman.

 

[BamaATL 16593]

7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

My impressions of Russia before February of last year was that they had some really solid IT people, the major cities were pretty "cosmopolitan" for lack of a better word, and they had quite a few Western influences (same videogames, restaurants, etc. as the West).  I knew a big chunk of it was rural, and I mean really fucking rural, the kind of rural that you don't get in the US, from comments my dad and uncle had made when they worked over there on an oil project.  After last year's invasion, I made the mistake of watching a bunch of YouTube videos of some redhead in Russia visiting these remote areas, including one town that is way the fuck up north, and where basically everybody is indoor all winter in some big-ass buildings because of the cold, but they seemed to have internet, all had electricity, and she was like "see were just like you all, it's just colder and we take trains".  But holy fuck the rural areas were rural.  It's like being out in Alpine and the nearest Walmart be in Arizona or  Kansas or some shit.

And then we watch them stealing fucking toilets and washing machines from Ukrainians.  A lot of toilets and washing machines, and you're like "what kind of "civilization" are these rural folks living in?"

I've seen the video you are referring to, because I like travel and odd places, and because she was hot.  She went to a town above the arctic circle during Christmas in that one and it's so isolated there are only a couple of flights a week, and even then its 6 hours from anything else.  This was an old mining town that was and is still dying and just a relic from Soviet times where people were forced to relocate to.  You could tell, however, that this was a state produced propaganda because they did their best to make it look like a village where Hallmark movies happen.  Despite this, the place still looked like a rundown shithole filled with bumpkins, whom we now know are only proficient at stealing appliances.  

[Bevo 13609]

3 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I've seen the video you are referring to, because I like travel and odd places, and because she was hot.  She went to a town above the arctic circle during Christmas in that one and it's so isolated there are only a couple of flights a week, and even then its 6 hours from anything else.  This was an old mining town that was and is still dying and just a relic from Soviet times where people were forced to relocate to.  You could tell, however, that this was a state produced propaganda because they did their best to make it look like a village where Hallmark movies happen.  Despite this, the place still looked like a rundown shithole filled with bumpkins, whom we now know are only proficient at stealing appliances.  

I went to Novosibirsk in Siberia in January some years back and it was cold as shit - like -40 - and Novosibirsk isn’t even that far North. I think I’d skip the village tour.  

[atomheartbevo 89891]

2 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I've seen the video you are referring to, because I like travel and odd places, and because she was hot. 

The video that caught my eye and got me started watching some of her other videos was her getting in a bikini and dunking herself in a hole cut in the ice because apparently that's a thing when it's below zero or whatever the batshit temp was where she was at.  She visits some really remote places.

2 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

She went to a town above the arctic circle during Christmas in that one and it's so isolated there are only a couple of flights a week, and even then its 6 hours from anything else.  This was an old mining town that was and is still dying and just a relic from Soviet times where people were forced to relocate to.  You could tell, however, that this was a state produced propaganda because they did their best to make it look like a village where Hallmark movies happen.  Despite this, the place still looked like a rundown shithole filled with bumpkins, whom we now know are only proficient at stealing appliances.  

Yeah, I've gotten the impression she is either making  (or was) a lot of money from YouTube and was bringing in decorations and what not on her own, trying to present whatever image she was pushing, like other YouTubers who always seem to have the perfect background/setting for their videos, or she had help from the government. She'd make a great real estate agent, because the uptick in her videos after February of 2022 and presenting vast amoutns of Bumfuck, Russia as some kind of backwater paradise was really odd.

Her videos of visiting stores after the sanctions kicked in after the Ukraine invasion and trying to pretend that things were normal was oddly hilarious.

I'm surprised she didn't bail on Russia after last year, like what most popular Russian YouTubers did.

[BamaATL 16593]

2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I went to Novosibirsk in Siberia in January some years back and it was cold as shit - like -40 - and Novosibirsk isn’t even that far North. I think I’d skip the village tour.  

If I remember correctly, she flew out of Novosibrisk, (which by the way does look like a beautiful place, and tropical compared to where she was going), due north, for six hours, on a modern jet.  So yeah, quite literally 2000 mi north of fucking Siberia.  I have to imagine getting frost bite while going to take shit outside is a real problem there.