Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[Gatorubet 30275]

Wagner is worse than normal Russian troops, and normal Russian troops are war criminals. While I loved the thought of Putin being deposed in a Civil War, Wagner wasn’t the good guys…they were the war criminals with sledgehammers. I hope this whole thing devolves into lots of small skirmishers and murders throughout the MOD deployments.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Gatorubet
Why does speech recognition software change stuff right as you hit enter

[Superhero 8833]

11 hours ago, BamaATL said:

I go to LA Fitness with my wife, and I have even told her, and she agreed, that should she no longer be here or something unthinkable like that; that the Yoga class is easily the most fertile ground for a guy like me in his mid 40s.  Plenty of ladies in middle life who look like they probably aren't very satisfied with life and looking to have some fun.  Younger fellas, if you want a cougar experience, this is the place.  

Stay away from that Zoomba class bullshit, those people look crazy.  

Between yoga class and trolling TJ Maxx Home Goods on a Friday evening, a gentleman from Surly can probably get decent about of desperate, lonely, 40 year old, divorced poon. 

[troph 24899]

1 hour ago, PTINS said:

Probably posted upthread, but always fun to watch the true meaning of FAFO. 

 

Ukraine is like “I can haz just 1 of those 2000 sorties day one please?”

[InkaUtexas 26025]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

About that...

It seems Putin has, in fact, announced the dissolution of Wagner PMC. He offered three options to Wagner mercenaries: 1. Sign contracts with Russian defense ministry or other power structures. 2. Return home to their families. 3. Leave for Belarus. Might this be the end of Wagner PMC?

So cancelling all the contracts in Africa and Syria? Withdrawing all the Wagner trainers, fighters, pilots? Losing access to all that cash going into Dubai?

That is what I am watching for. Wagner 2.0. Who will run it. MOD? 

 

[Captain Obvious 524]

New plan for getting rid of Putin. Fly him to Omaha right now and have a LSU fan challenge him to a jello shot drink off.  He'll die of alcohol poisoning.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Captain Obvious

[dimyh 1874]

36 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

So cancelling all the contracts in Africa and Syria? Withdrawing all the Wagner trainers, fighters, pilots? Losing access to all that cash going into Dubai?

That is what I am watching for. Wagner 2.0. Who will run it. MOD? 

 

Doubt that they are canceling contracts...it will be under new management like their McDonald's rebranding to TastyPeriod or whatever bullshit moldy burgers they were selling over there.

I'm definitely curious on who will be heading it though. Only other big Wagner name I know is that evil Dave Campo look-alike, Mikhail Mizintsev who was reassigned a few months ago.

[Rimbo 26028]

here's a new take on the whole ride vs ammo thing

 

[Scheiss Meister 8408]

I'd have said, "I need a ride AND ammunition."

[InkaUtexas 26025]

10 minutes ago, dimyh said:

Doubt that they are canceling contracts...it will be under new management like their McDonald's rebranding to TastyPeriod or whatever bullshit moldy burgers they were selling over there.

I'm definitely curious on who will be heading it though. Only other big Wagner name I know is that evil Dave Campo look-alike, Mikhail Mizintsev who was reassigned a few months ago.

In some of those countries pressured can be placed. A few of them. We got Moz to kick them out. Mali, Libya, Syria, nope, but do we want to be there anyways? 

Sudan is the target. 

One thing that hit me to day is Frontier Group (Prince) could take over those contracts and just hire existing staff. China cares a lot about stability in Sudan with their oil fields. 

Man, the world is lucky Surly is made up of social degenerates and not truly bad people. 

 

[atomheartbevo 89766]

Something that is bugging the shit out of me - why was Shoigu in civilian attire.

I get the reason why Putin had today’s meeting advertised far and wide to the Russian people and the rest of the world, but in terms of showing confidence in Shoigu….

[dimyh 1874]

3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

About that...

It seems Putin has, in fact, announced the dissolution of Wagner PMC. He offered three options to Wagner mercenaries: 1. Sign contracts with Russian defense ministry or other power structures. 2. Return home to their families. 3. Leave for Belarus. Might this be the end of Wagner PMC?

Putin offering Wagner mutineers the option to opt out of service is going to be toxic to the regular army. Too many stories of guys bitching about being put through the meat grinder with no leaves or minimal rotations. They are begging to get off the line and here the president is basically giving a full pardon to guys that were going to march on the capital? That would drive anybody insane.

[InkaUtexas 26025]

4 minutes ago, dimyh said:

Putin offering Wagner mutineers the option to opt out of service is going to be toxic to the regular army. Too many stories of guys bitching about being put through the meat grinder with no leaves or minimal rotations. They are begging to get off the line and here the president is basically giving a full pardon to guys that were going to march on the capital? That would drive anybody insane.

And don't forget a lot were criminals. That will do wonders for Barracks morale. 

Instead of watching your 12, you are watching your 6. 

[dimyh 1874]

56 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

In some of those countries pressured can be placed. A few of them. We got Moz to kick them out. Mali, Libya, Syria, nope, but do we want to be there anyways? 

Sudan is the target. 

One thing that hit me to day is Frontier Group (Prince) could take over those contracts and just hire existing staff. China cares a lot about stability in Sudan with their oil fields. 

Man, the world is lucky Surly is made up of social degenerates and not truly bad people. 

 

And I guess the bigger question is what does Xi think about expanding his military presence in Africa? Since that friendship without limits is working out so great between him and Putin. If Xi sees Russian military projection falter then does he see it as part of a natural power vacuum that they need to fill? 

Russia has that history of ruthlessness but is China willing to, openly, take it to that level? They appear to be more of a systematic oppressor and not a boots 'n bullets taskforce eager to get in scraps. But it would be great to have another reason for friction between 🇨🇳 and 🇷🇺.

[InkaUtexas 26025]

6 hours ago, Handcruser said:

This is exactly right.

When you target our troops anywhere (diplomats not included) we fucking bring everything.

No, you fuck with our diplomats we hunt your ass. And we don't stop. Won't be big army. Just different groups do it. Ask the Lebanese about going after our people in Beruit before the Marine Barracks. 

[atomheartbevo 89766]

21 minutes ago, dimyh said:

Russia has that history of ruthlessness but is China willing to, openly, take it to that level? They appear to be more of a systematic oppressor and not a boots 'n bullets taskforce eager to get in scraps. But it would be great to have another reason for friction between 🇨🇳 and 🇷🇺.

China likes to pride themselves on being more sophisticated than thugs like Putin and the others running Russia.  Maybe sophisticated is not the right word, but they don't want the kind of reputation that Russians and Russian mercenaries have cultivated.

[InkaUtexas 26025]

21 minutes ago, dimyh said:

And I guess the bigger question is what does Xi think about expanding his military presence in Africa? Since that friendship without limits is working out so great between him and Putin. If Xi sees Russian military projection falter then does he see it as part of a natural power vacuum that they need to fill? 

Russia has that history of ruthlessness but is China willing to, openly, take it to that level? They appear to be more of a systematic oppressor and not a boots 'n bullets taskforce eager to get in scraps. But it would be great to have another reason for friction between 🇨🇳 and 🇷🇺.

Trying to compare China and Russia is like comparing OU vs. aggy. It does not work. 

Xi is already pushing for long term bases, mainly navy, in Africa. Djibouti was a big one for him. Now he is watching the West Coast of the continent. He is trying to press Kenya under their development initiative to take over Mombassa Port's oil side. This is a major bunkering station for a lot of maritime traffic. 

There is a difference of course. China does not abuse the population like Russia does. They just bring in convict labor from China to do the work and hire no one locally except for the shell company. The Palm in Dubai (yeah fuck all you who stay there) was built by convicts who lived on ships. A very quiet deal. You knew about it if you lived there and saw how they operated. Quite a few died at sea, no one cared. 

 

[InkaUtexas 26025]

3 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

China likes to pride themselves on being more sophisticated than thugs like Putin and the others running Russia.  Maybe sophisticated is not the right word, but they don't want the kind of reputation that Russians and Russian mercenaries have cultivated.

But they have it, just quietly. Asking my Sudanese friends what they think of the Chinese. Go visit Little China in Santo Domingo or Lima. They will never integrate. They own, they manage, and people disappear. It just not make the news. 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

17 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Ask the Lebanese Persians/Hezbollah about going after our people in Beruit before the Marine Barracks. 

 

[InkaUtexas 26025]

13 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

I would reply but I am staring at your avatar. 

The groups that were kidnapping earlier were Lebanese, Hezbollah, Iranian Supported (if you want to get into it), but their support cells were Lebanese. You cannot operate with out local support cells. 

Mossad tried that shit in Dubai and it did not end well. That and they were dumbasses on that operation. 

My point is US Diplomats are not left out as the previous poster suggested. When the Embassy in a certain Latin American country was threatened we had the best of the Army ready to come in. They landed at the international airport and were ready to move. That did not include the Marine's rapid deployment force that has components designed to augment, protect and evacuate US Embassy personnel including dependents. Yeah, I sat in on a few of those briefings as a kid. 

I think the OG poster may be trying to go CR. I won't go there on this thread. 

[956 Worldwide 34742]

Just a note to keep this thread useful, Igor Sushko is not at all reliable. He may sometimes get some things right but he also churns out a lot of crap. I’d verify anything he puts out elsewhere before running with him. 
 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

20 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

The groups that were kidnapping earlier were Lebanese, Hezbollah, Iranian Supported (if you want to get into it), but their support cells were Lebanese Hezbollah/Persian/Shia

 

You didn't see any Christian or Sunni Lebanese kidnapping Americans. I understand it was/is a complicated and messed up scene, but it was almost exclusively the Shia/Iranians that were doing that shit.

[InkaUtexas 26025]

1 minute ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

You didn't see any Christian or Sunni Lebanese kidnapping Americans. I understand it was/is a complicated and messed up scene, but it was almost exclusively the Shia/Iranians that were doing that shit.

There are questions about the University professors and who got them. That was never clarified. And yeah, let's over look what the Druze did. 

Tell me you have never been a State kid without telling me you were not a State kid. Shit, next you are going to tell me Brown's upper level class on Latin Revolutions (80% Mexico) is where you learned about Latin America. 

Fuck it, back to the topic. 

My point was if an embassy is threatened, DOD, all assets, assist. 

Fuck Russia. 

[956 Worldwide 34742]

11 hours ago, statsman said:

It was regular army, not Green Berets or any other special forces. 

It was mostly USAF drones, F-22s, and an AC-130 raining metal on them. Another reminder of the American way of war. 
 

I may have read it here, but an apocryphal anecdote on how to figure out in the dark what soldiers you heard shuffling about nearby in World War II. Fire one shot above their heads: 

- If they surrender, it’s the Italians 

- If the reply is disciplined, crisp rifle fire it’s the Brits

- If they unleash all hell with a machine gun it’s the Germans

- If you’re met with silence and then your position is obliterated with artillery or an air strike, it was Americans 

Still not 100 percent clear how many Wagners were at that fight, though. 

[InkaUtexas 26025]

4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It was mostly USAF drones, F-22s, and an AC-130 raining metal on them. Another reminder of the American way of war. 
 

I may have read it here, but an apocryphal anecdote on how to figure out in the dark what soldiers you heard shuffling about nearby in World War II. Fire one shot above their heads: 

- If they surrender, it’s the Italians 

- If the reply is disciplined, crisp rifle fire it’s the Brits

- If they unleash all hell with a machine gun it’s the Germans

- If you’re met with silence and then your position is obliterated with artillery or an air strike, it was Americans 

Still not 100 percent clear how many Wagners were at that fight, though. 

Damn good one. And the Turks went back for Shisha time.

Rumors are SF was there to augment, take and control. Not front line. The USAF controllers owned the sky and Army owned the permitter with SDF kicking some ass. 

The stories are out there. Have heard them and they are validated. 

Russia still sucks worse than Jimbo's contract. 

[InkaUtexas 26025]

This is well done. If does not make you laugh move to Belarus. 

 

[956 Worldwide 34742]

I don’t know what the hell the FSB and Putin are playing at here but this is the opposite of what he announced last night. It’s going to be a lot of fun to speculate about the reasons for the lack of sync on messaging but the simple fact is, no one knows.

 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

There are questions about the University professors and who got them. That was never clarified. And yeah, let's over look what the Druze did.

They know who did that, it was Iran via Hezbollah. No ones overlooking the Druze.

[Bill Lumbergh 7171]

5 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Xi is already pushing for long term bases, mainly navy, in Africa. Djibouti was a big one for him. 

I see Xi and I share a similar interest.

[WhatTheBuck 28794]

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

About that...

It seems Putin has, in fact, announced the dissolution of Wagner PMC. He offered three options to Wagner mercenaries: 1. Sign contracts with Russian defense ministry or other power structures. 2. Return home to their families. 3. Leave for Belarus. Might this be the end of Wagner PMC?

Shouldn’t there be a fourth option?

4. Go back to prison.

[statsman 5473]

4 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It was mostly USAF drones, F-22s, and an AC-130 raining metal on them. Another reminder of the American way of war. 
 

I may have read it here, but an apocryphal anecdote on how to figure out in the dark what soldiers you heard shuffling about nearby in World War II. Fire one shot above their heads: 

- If they surrender, it’s the Italians 

- If the reply is disciplined, crisp rifle fire it’s the Brits

- If they unleash all hell with a machine gun it’s the Germans

- If you’re met with silence and then your position is obliterated with artillery or an air strike, it was Americans 

Still not 100 percent clear how many Wagners were at that fight, though. 

I read that the WWII Germans complained that the Americans were not “real” soldiers; they did recon with artillery (I.e. instead of sending troops to reconnoiter a forest, the Americans would just blow the hell out of it and see if anyone came running out). 
 
There’s an advantage to being a citizen, rather than a subject. 

[Parliament 14276]

There's also an advantage to having the industrial capacity to be able to "waste" a few tons of shells on some random forest.

[tx ind 7013]

5 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

There are questions about the University professors and who got them. That was never clarified. And yeah, let's over look what the Druze did. 

Tell me you have never been a State kid without telling me you were not a State kid. Shit, next you are going to tell me Brown's upper level class on Latin Revolutions (80% Mexico) is where you learned about Latin America. 

 

(not so) fun fact- Steve Kerr's father was killed at the university.

[BamaATL 16593]

7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Something that is bugging the shit out of me - why was Shoigu in civilian attire.

I get the reason why Putin had today’s meeting advertised far and wide to the Russian people and the rest of the world, but in terms of showing confidence in Shoigu….

His cosplay uniform was at the dry cleaners.  

[Schulz2.0 28997]

 

[Schulz2.0 28997]

 

[Schulz2.0 28997]

 

[Schulz2.0 28997]

 

[BamaATL 16593]

1 hour ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I see Xi and I share a similar interest.

The problem isn't when you enter Djibouti, it's the mess you make when you leave Djibouti.  It's fun and exciting, and then it's over and just a mess.  

[MissingInAction 25139]

7 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

 

I think the OG poster may be trying to go CR. I won't go there on this thread. 

Yes. I think we all know what he is "clerverly" alluding to.

[Schulz2.0 28997]

 

[Macanudo 13003]

1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 

If I were Lukashenko, I'd be worried that the Wagner post is being built closer to Minsk than Ukraine.  I mean. besides the obvious point that Wagner will be in Belarus at all.  

[Superhero 8833]

6 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

This is well done. If does not make you laugh move to Belarus. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 

A camp where they can be concentrated? Yes please. 
 

[SquishMitten 10422]

11 hours ago, statsman said:

Before Ukraine, Wagner were pretty much experienced Russian troops, kind of their approximation of Blackwater (although they took on larger and more aggressive assignments than Blackwater). 
 
In Ukraine, they augmented with poorly trained penal troops, used as cannon fodder, as described elsewhere. We’ve read other reports of conscripts being shipped to Wagner (rarely ethnic Russians from major cities). I’m guessing the cannon fodder is getting paid a whole lot less than the experienced Wagners. (And I’m guessing experienced Wagners make a lot more than regular Russian troops, and wouldn’t be surprised if that were a source of resentment). 
 
With hard feeling between regular Russian troops and Wagner, rolling veteran Wagner troops into the Russian army may involve a big cut in pay, eating some shit, and being given the most dangerous assignments with minimal support. 
 
That’s a shame. 

They’re going to tear each other apart if they just get randomly integrated across many units. Neither side will have the slightest bit of trust in the other. 

[CHIEF 5094]

Lukashenko has supplied thousands of tons of material, equipment, and armaments to Russia. What he has failed to do is send Russia meat for the grinder. I think this movement of Wagner troops into Belarus, where the military warehouses are bare is a message to Lukashenko to provide said meat or there will be repercussions.

CHIEF

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

I know if I’m a dictator with a tenuous grasp on power, I’m definitely welcoming a mercenary group that just committed mutiny against another dictator with a tenuous grasp on power.

Luka ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Chad Fuck 17711]

21 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I know if I’m a dictator with a tenuous grasp on power, I’m definitely welcoming a mercenary group that just committed mutiny against another dictator with a tenuous grasp on power.

Luka ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed.

Apparently, he can't do anything about it even if he does know what's going on.  The python has him wrapped up. 

[Pato del Muerto 52543]

26 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I know if I’m a dictator with a tenuous grasp on power, I’m definitely welcoming a mercenary group that just committed mutiny against another dictator with a tenuous grasp on power.

Luka ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed.

Is he still in turkieyei?

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

Is he still in turkieyei?

dunno, never heard of it!

[Skipper 6170]

When I was paying attention to this in real time Saturday, it was being reported that as part of the "deal" to stand down, Shoigu and Gerasimov were being fired (with some of the twitter folks even arguing (and it seemed super far fetched to me at the time) that Putin was in on this as a method of getting rid of those 2).  Clearly at some point that fell apart.  Was that just fog of war noise?  I didn't really go back and review the 24-36 hour period where I was just seeing bits and pieces of info but didn't see how and when that stopped being an assumption.

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

9 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Clearly at some point that fell apart.  Was that just fog of war noise? 

Essentially yes. Our main sources of info on internal Russian dealings, especially in real time, are all liars.  Confirming anything is difficult