Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[The Dog 44140]

[Trey3216 15357]

15 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Was thinking more of this. But OK. 

 

Mel Gibson hasn't aged a day  

[LW Goatman 1125]

On that note, Ukraine should keep cases of vodka with them and drop them in the trenches/villages should a counter surge push them back.

[WhatTheBuck 28798]

2 hours ago, KYHorn said:

“Krasnodar runner Kiril Budyonov reported that he was nearby at the time of the murder of the local deputy head of the mobilization department.

The sportsman stated that he personally saw how the serviceman took out a black pistol and fired 2 9mm bullets into his own chest, after which he carefully buried the weapon, threw away the cartridges, laid down, and died.”
😂😂😂

Yeah, officer, I was out for a jog and I saw the whole thing.

[statsman 5481]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Looking forward to the inevitable handwringing over how bad it is to carefully and discriminatingly assassinate the men responsible for massive, indiscriminate rocket attacks on civilians. 

Here’s a little handwringing. 
 
Did he deserve to get shot? Sure, he fired missiles at civilian centers. He played a stupid game and he won a stupid prize. (I see him as kind of a modern day Joachim Peipfer, except Peipfer may have deserved it even more). 
 
Is this the best way to prosecute the war? I’m not sure. I get that Ukrainians are beyond pissed, but isn’t it better to not give Russians motivation? Let this war be that conflict their leaders got them into, that nobody sees anything but bad coming from?

Also, is Budenov fighting his own war? Is he answerable to Zelensky or the military leadership?

[The Dog 44140]

2 hours ago, KYHorn said:

 

Russian lieutenant general Oleg Tsokov was reportedly killed near temporarily occupied Berdiansk - advisor to Mariupol mayor Petro Andriushchenko.

Tsokov was under sanctions of the EU, Great Britain and New Zealand.

Since August 2022 he commanded the 144th motorized rifle division of the 20th combined arms army of the Russian Federation.  He received the rank of lieutenant general in 2023.  In addition to the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, he took part in two Chechen wars and the war in Syria.

Russia hasn't confirmed this information. 

Some accounts I'm not familiar with are saying he and other officers were staying at a hotel and that nothing remains of the hotel.

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

9 minutes ago, statsman said:

Here’s a little handwringing. 
 
Did he deserve to get shot? Sure, he fired missiles at civilian centers. He played a stupid game and he won a stupid prize. (I see him as kind of a modern day Joachim Peipfer, except Peipfer may have deserved it even more). 
 
Is this the best way to prosecute the war? I’m not sure. I get that Ukrainians are beyond pissed, but isn’t it better to not give Russians motivation? Let this war be that conflict their leaders got them into, that nobody sees anything but bad coming from?

Also, is Budenov fighting his own war? Is he answerable to Zelensky or the military leadership?

killing the higher ups is good imo.  in a political system not subject to pressure from the masses, you have to make the people in charge feel discomfort somehow.  garroting is kosher. 

[SydneyCarton 48180]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Looking forward to the inevitable handwringing over how bad it is to carefully and discriminatingly assassinate the men responsible for massive, indiscriminate rocket attacks on civilians. 

I mean, why are you inviting more posts from FartingMonk and GREHorn?

11 minutes ago, statsman said:

Here’s a little handwringing. 
 
Did he deserve to get shot? Sure, he fired missiles at civilian centers. He played a stupid game and he won a stupid prize. (I see him as kind of a modern day Joachim Peipfer, except Peipfer may have deserved it even more). 
 
Is this the best way to prosecute the war? I’m not sure. I get that Ukrainians are beyond pissed, but isn’t it better to not give Russians motivation? Let this war be that conflict their leaders got them into, that nobody sees anything but bad coming from?

Also, is Budenov fighting his own war? Is he answerable to Zelensky or the military leadership?

This is stupid. You think the Russians need movitvation to fight? They're all brainwashed dipshits who think Ukraine is fulll of Nazis and are harvesting children. It's better off to continue to kill leadership in any way possible and continue to ratchet up the fear and pressure for the entire regime and even the populace. You think Russians didn't give a fuck before but now that a sub commander got shit, fuck, they're all in this war? Come on man. The motivations of the people don't matter one fucking bit. 

[The Dog 44140]

watch to near the end.

[kevwun 15915]

We assassinated Yamamoto in WWII.  The key to avoiding that is to not be an asshole who invades another country.  It was with planes and not a pistol, but it was a planned operation.

Edited July 11, 2023 by kevwun

[MissingInAction 25191]

3 hours ago, KYHorn said:

“Krasnodar runner Kiril Budyonov reported that he was nearby at the time of the murder of the local deputy head of the mobilization department.

The sportsman stated that he personally saw how the serviceman took out a black pistol and fired 2 9mm bullets into his own chest, after which he carefully buried the weapon, threw away the cartridges, laid down, and died.”
😂😂😂

No-Ho Hank?

[MissingInAction 25191]

2 hours ago, Nivek said:

Education systems are important if one wants to create an advanced society, but with that, they will have expectations on getting returns from their contributions to that society.   If one wants a group of loyal mentally weak cannon fodder to ignore the fleecing they are doing to them and their offspring, then the goal would be to create manufactured distractions while undermining education so one could remain in perpetual power.

This...

Sounds familiar....

[SquishMitten 10435]

19 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

So what happens when Russia decides to hit these while under construction with missiles or drones? Hard to keep these locations secret for so long. 

Seems like a good reason to send more Gepard, Iris-T, and other air-defense systems.

[0xdeadbeef 1652]

23 minutes ago, statsman said:

Is this the best way to prosecute the war? I’m not sure. I get that Ukrainians are beyond pissed, but isn’t it better to not give Russians motivation? Let this war be that conflict their leaders got them into, that nobody sees anything but bad coming from?

Also, is Budenov fighting his own war? Is he answerable to Zelensky or the military leadership?

I think the assumption from most folks following such things is that someone associated with Ukraine killed him, but has there been any official (or unofficial) confirmation of that?

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

31 minutes ago, statsman said:

Here’s a little handwringing. 
 
Did he deserve to get shot? Sure, he fired missiles at civilian centers. He played a stupid game and he won a stupid prize. (I see him as kind of a modern day Joachim Peipfer, except Peipfer may have deserved it even more). 
 
Is this the best way to prosecute the war? I’m not sure. I get that Ukrainians are beyond pissed, but isn’t it better to not give Russians motivation? Let this war be that conflict their leaders got them into, that nobody sees anything but bad coming from?

Also, is Budenov fighting his own war? Is he answerable to Zelensky or the military leadership?

what the fuck are you talking about?

[SquishMitten 10435]

18 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Can the US or Canada give Australia 15-20 acres of land on the Atlantic coast, so they can join NATO?  They went into Afghanistan with us, they are our closest Allie’s in the Pacific….

Give em Florida. Solves one of our biggest problems, and they're already used to living in a place where everything wants to kill you.

[tokamak 6442]

28 minutes ago, The Dog said:

watch to near the end.

Don’t mind me over here just googling “Estonia pm” and clicking images. 

[The Dog 44140]

NATO allies have agreed to simplify the process of Ukraine's entry into the North Atlantic Alliance, Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said . "We reiterated that Ukraine will become a member of NATO and agreed to cancel the requirements for an action plan for membership in the alliance. This will change the path for Ukraine to join NATO, instead of a two-stage process, it will be a one-stage process," Stoltenberg said at a press conference in Vilnius. According to Stoltenberg, the NATO summit also agreed on the establishment of a Ukraine-NATO council, as well as a multi-year support program aimed at bringing the Ukrainian Armed Forces up to NATO standards.

[956 Worldwide 34779]

52 minutes ago, statsman said:

Here’s a little handwringing. 
 
Did he deserve to get shot? Sure, he fired missiles at civilian centers. He played a stupid game and he won a stupid prize. (I see him as kind of a modern day Joachim Peipfer, except Peipfer may have deserved it even more). 
 
Is this the best way to prosecute the war? I’m not sure. I get that Ukrainians are beyond pissed, but isn’t it better to not give Russians motivation? Let this war be that conflict their leaders got them into, that nobody sees anything but bad coming from?

Also, is Budenov fighting his own war? Is he answerable to Zelensky or the military leadership?

This is how I look at the morality and wisdom of making every Russian commander worry that they may be shot  on their morning jog:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Reinhard_Heydrich
 

You are a soldier and you’re part of the infrastructure needed to launch missiles at people in pizza parlors and hospitals. Are they following orders? Do they get to sleep at night in peace?  
 

No. Fuck you. Catch a flight to Georgia. Read about what the Allies did to Japanese and Nazi military commanders who followed orders. You’re not special. 

[tokamak 6442]

I get that Zelenskyy wants to be a NATO member like, yesterday, but isn't that literally impossible? If Ukraine joins NATO at any time while Russia still occupies parts of Ukraine, doesn't that immediately trigger Article 5 and we're instantly in a real Russia-NATO shooting war? I feel like I'm missing something really obvious.

[SimonBolivar 10959]

3 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I get that Zelenskyy wants to be a NATO member like, yesterday, but isn't that literally impossible? If Ukraine joins NATO at any time while Russia still occupies parts of Ukraine, doesn't that immediately trigger Article 5 and we're instantly in a real Russia-NATO shooting war? I feel like I'm missing something really obvious.

Well Zelenskyy would love to have NATO join the war. Why wouldn't he?

[956 Worldwide 34779]

2 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I get that Zelenskyy wants to be a NATO member like, yesterday, but isn't that literally impossible? If Ukraine joins NATO at any time while Russia still occupies parts of Ukraine, doesn't that immediately trigger Article 5 and we're instantly in a real Russia-NATO shooting war? I feel like I'm missing something really obvious.

You’re not. NATO membership is not possible as long as a country has an ongoing border dispute at the time of application. Zelenskyy wants to waive/change this basic condition— because of course he does. He wants Russia to immediately have to decide: war with NATO or not? They’d probably choose “not” but the percentage and consequences are dire. 
 

I don’t blame him at all. Waiving the MAP after the war is actually a massive win. 

[SquishMitten 10435]

6 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I get that Zelenskyy wants to be a NATO member like, yesterday, but isn't that literally impossible? If Ukraine joins NATO at any time while Russia still occupies parts of Ukraine, doesn't that immediately trigger Article 5 and we're instantly in a real Russia-NATO shooting war? I feel like I'm missing something really obvious.

No. You're not missing anything. That's the reason why it's a non-starter until Russia is defeated...or if Article 5 is triggered in some other way making it a moot point.

[WhatTheBuck 28798]

7 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I get that Zelenskyy wants to be a NATO member like, yesterday, but isn't that literally impossible? If Ukraine joins NATO at any time while Russia still occupies parts of Ukraine, doesn't that immediately trigger Article 5 and we're instantly in a real Russia-NATO shooting war? I feel like I'm missing something really obvious.

Nope, you’re correct. That’s exactly what it means. 

[PTINS 3484]

33 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Don’t mind me over here just googling “Estonia pm” and clicking images. 

I have 'em on the equivalent of speed dial. The leadership in Europe is inspirational to say the least, and a refreshing benchmark of the depth that American politics have reached.

Kaja Kallas    Estonia

Ursula von der Leyen    EU-Germany

 

Sanna Marin    Finland

Giorgia Meloni    Italy

 

Annalena Baerbock    Germany

And some bonus footage of Giorgia Meloni's rendition of a romance language. Even without the subtitles, Anybody with that passion is deserving of unmitigated support. You best not be leaving the toilet seat up in her house.

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by PTINS
double image

[tokamak 6442]

9 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Well Zelenskyy would love to have NATO join the war. Why wouldn't he?

 

8 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

You’re not. NATO membership is not possible as long as a country has an ongoing border dispute at the time of application. Zelenskyy wants to waive/change this basic condition— because of course he does. He wants Russia to immediately have to decide: war with NATO or not? They’d probably choose “not” but the percentage and consequences are dire. 
 

I don’t blame him at all. Waiving the MAP after the war is actually a massive win. 

 

6 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

No. You're not missing anything. That's the reason why it's a non-starter until Russia is defeated...or if Article 5 is triggered in some other way making it a moot point.

 

5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Nope, you’re correct. That’s exactly what it means. 

OK I just read a bit more in depth article on NYT where it is made clear that what Zelenskyy is asking for is a clear plan "once the war is over". I had been reading headlines and stuff and thinking that he was literally asking to join right away.

[NorthLoop 14248]

Ukr special ops dudes will be assassinating Russians long after this war is over. 

 

Looking at you, Margarita. 

[PTINS 3484]

29 minutes ago, The Dog said:

NATO allies have agreed to simplify the process of Ukraine's entry into the North Atlantic Alliance, Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said. 

I usually only use Elisha for um ... Longhorn commitments, but NATO's commitment to Ukraine feels appropriate.

  

[956 Worldwide 34779]

38 minutes ago, tokamak said:

 

 

 

OK I just read a bit more in depth article on NYT where it is made clear that what Zelenskyy is asking for is a clear plan "once the war is over". I had been reading headlines and stuff and thinking that he was literally asking to join right away.

It’s been a real luxury— and I mean that in the best sense— that Americans and even Western Europeans— have for decades been able to mostly not pay much attention to how NATO works and what it really means. In great times, it should work that way, as something you know about but don’t need to get into the details. 
 

This war has (IMO) had a “benefit” also of really shaking our most well-meaning and generally educated citizens to life and hopefully will influence the choices we make with the understanding that foreign affairs and security really matter and that making good choices in that sphere ALLOWS us the room to have the conversations about what domestic decisions are best. And (no CR) I usually believe that an educated citizen with a sense of right and wrong can usually get to the right place on this stuff faster than the DC foreign policy blob or God forbid our populist agitators. So I’m glad when we have our smart people at home asking questions about NATO and how it works and why it’s important. 

[BamaATL 16593]

Russians offing themselves after failed offensive (and failing at it)

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/russians-are-committing-suicide-after-an-unsuccessful-assault-near-avdiivka/

 

[956 Worldwide 34779]

“We were shocked when two rich nations that had kept the pretense of neutrality to get security benefits with no obligations decided to lock in those security benefits once shit got real and we invaded our neutral neighbor. WTF?” 

[BamaATL 16593]

11 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

“We were shocked when two rich nations that had kept the pretense of neutrality to get security benefits with no obligations decided to lock in those security benefits once shit got real and we invaded our neutral neighbor. WTF?” 

Pretty pathetic, at one point Lavrov was considered a titan of diplomacy (even if thru disagreement) now he is reduced to making ridiculous statements that are dismissed out of hand.  

[956 Worldwide 34779]

So, the new reality for Russia, China, and the world:

NATO will be a 32 member bloc with 1 billion people. Those 32 members compose by far the biggest chunk of high income/development/innovation societies in the world. 
 

Militarily, the leading member of the bloc is the most powerful single nation and several more hover in the top ten. Combined, easily the most powerful, best equipped, best trained, most capable military force in human history. 
 

Strategically, Russia (140 million people, lucky to be a G20 nation, medium income, low innovation, miserable demographics) has seen its declared for become immensely stronger. Its Western sea outlets to the world are completely contained by its adversary. China is looking at the top Pacific power across the pond and growing assertiveness from the very same “marginal top ten” militaries.

Politically, each of the “other 31” have been driven into the arms of China and Russia’s declared top adversary and are even more open to any US administration smart enough to play nice (fingers crossed). And if you must be an asshole and talk REALPOLITIK (ugh) this move and recent history means more leverage and levers to prod these rich friends to do stuff that’s NOT strictly NATO cause you don’t really have an option.

So, keep this in mind as you read knuckleheads whinge about the BRICS and their rise. Understand that no one WANTS to have to rely on cobbling together a jalopy where Brazil, South Africa, India, and Russia (LOL) are wheels. They’re doing it cause they don’t have a fucking choice, they’d prefer all of Europe to not be our inalienable friends. A transatlantic bloc (basically Oceana plus parts of Eurasia for you Orwell readers) is not a burden, it’s the best source of strength we have. 

You done goofed, Vlad. And for that matter, you too Xi. 
 

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by 956 Worldwide

[MillerEP 30501]

^What is Emotional Issues code for?

 

[MillerEP 30501]

 

[956 Worldwide 34779]

Oh, and your best friend in the bloc is HUNGARY! Hungary and Orban! 
 

We lay down a monster and you come back with HUNGARY! 

[Chad Fuck 17782]

33 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Pretty pathetic, at one point Lavrov was considered a titan of diplomacy (even if thru disagreement) now he is reduced to making ridiculous statements that are dismissed out of hand.  

Out of all the scoundrels in Stalin's inner circle, Molotov (the diplomat) was the only one to die naturally, by deftly hewing to the party line as necessary.   Lavrov has taken this lesson to heart it seems. 

But his desire to live has made him a total fucking clown on the world stage.  

[atomheartbevo 89805]

2 hours ago, The Dog said:

NATO allies have agreed to simplify the process of Ukraine's entry into the North Atlantic Alliance, Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said . "We reiterated that Ukraine will become a member of NATO and agreed to cancel the requirements for an action plan for membership in the alliance. This will change the path for Ukraine to join NATO, instead of a two-stage process, it will be a one-stage process," Stoltenberg said at a press conference in Vilnius.

2 hours ago, The Dog said:

According to Stoltenberg, the NATO summit also agreed on the establishment of a Ukraine-NATO council, as well as a multi-year support program aimed at bringing the Ukrainian Armed Forces up to NATO standards.

Shit, shouldn't we be bringing NATO armed forces up to Ukrainian standards?  Those folks are improvising, adapting, and overcoming like nobody's business.

[ABSR 5324]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s been a real luxury— and I mean that in the best sense— that Americans and even Western Europeans— have for decades been able to mostly not pay much attention to how NATO works and what it really means. In great times, it should work that way, as something you know about but don’t need to get into the details. 
 

This war has (IMO) had a “benefit” also of really shaking our most well-meaning and generally educated citizens to life and hopefully will influence the choices we make with the understanding that foreign affairs and security really matter and that making good choices in that sphere ALLOWS us the room to have the conversations about what domestic decisions are best. And (no CR) I usually believe that an educated citizen with a sense of right and wrong can usually get to the right place on this stuff faster than the DC foreign policy blob or God forbid our populist agitators. So I’m glad when we have our smart people at home asking questions about NATO and how it works and why it’s important. 

"Americans will always do the right thing...only after they have tried everything else."  - Winston Churchill

 

But we get there.

[MillerEP 30501]

^Kasparov apparently destroyed the Russian opposition so badly on stage that Navalny's team had to come out again and reiterate on how Russians aren't responsible for what Russia does ::eyeroll:: 
I need to find the full video

[SydneyCarton 48180]

9 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Shit, shouldn't we be bringing NATO armed forces up to Ukrainian standards?  Those folks are improvising, adapting, and overcoming like nobody's business.

Yeah, they have to say that. Pretty sure that part of the NATO process is going to be about as onerous as a guy on a clipboard marking the check box. 

[The Dog 44140]

17 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Shit, shouldn't we be bringing NATO armed forces up to Ukrainian standards?  Those folks are improvising, adapting, and overcoming like nobody's business.

They've been pretty innovative but remember we've been sending them our old crap from the 90s. 

[AUS-97HORN 11824]

1 hour ago, MillerEP said:

^What is Emotional Issues code for?

Bullet to the back of the head

[Braff Zacklin 13664]

2 hours ago, PTINS said:

Anybody with that passion is deserving of unmitigated support.

To be fair, Italians get this animated just ordering dessert.

[MillerEP 30501]

NATO Summit, a big letdown so far:

 

[Trey3216 15357]

42 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

To be fair, Italians get this animated just ordering dessert.

I resemble that comment

[NorthLoop 14248]

2 hours ago, MillerEP said:

^What is Emotional Issues code for?

[Braff Zacklin 13664]

17 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I resemble that comment

Tu sei pazzo!

No, mi scusi.

Tu sei cazzo!

[atomheartbevo 89805]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s been a real luxury— and I mean that in the best sense— that Americans and even Western Europeans— have for decades been able to mostly not pay much attention to how NATO works and what it really means. In great times, it should work that way, as something you know about but don’t need to get into the details. 

This war has (IMO) had a “benefit” also of really shaking our most well-meaning and generally educated citizens to life and hopefully will influence the choices we make with the understanding that foreign affairs and security really matter and that making good choices in that sphere ALLOWS us the room to have the conversations about what domestic decisions are best. And (no CR) I usually believe that an educated citizen with a sense of right and wrong can usually get to the right place on this stuff faster than the DC foreign policy blob or God forbid our populist agitators. So I’m glad when we have our smart people at home asking questions about NATO and how it works and why it’s important. 

To be fair, none of us expected the Russians to be the biggest fucking dumbasses in the world.  I mean, the writing was on the wall and everything, but it was stunning how fast the Berlin Wall fell, and we all thought there'd be peace in Europe. Yeah, the Chechen stuff in the 90s could have been a wakeup call, but that was also easy to blow off as the Muslims wanted to break from Moscow, just as other Republics wanted to/did.

Europe and the US pretty much coasted along for nearly 25 years after the Soviet Union fell, and then Crimea/DPR/LPR invasion happened, and Putin had much more influence over their politics, and Europe relied on Russia's energy, so everybody pulled their heads inside of their shells and pretended like it wasn't happening.

Post-2014, he best bet would have been for us to at least implement the sanctions we've put on them since February 2022 and work to get Europe off of Russian energy.  As it stands, everybody woke up late, but when shit got going in early to mid-2022, everybody started working together quickly and Getting Shit Done, to the point where Russia only has empty threats left.

[atomheartbevo 89805]

5 hours ago, statsman said:

 Did he deserve to get shot? Sure, he fired missiles at civilian centers. He played a stupid game and he won a stupid prize. (I see him as kind of a modern day Joachim Peipfer, except Peipfer may have deserved it even more). 
 
Is this the best way to prosecute the war? I’m not sure. I get that Ukrainians are beyond pissed, but isn’t it better to not give Russians motivation? Let this war be that conflict their leaders got them into, that nobody sees anything but bad coming from?

5 hours ago, kevwun said:

We assassinated Yamamoto in WWII.  The key to avoiding that is to not be an asshole who invades another country.  It was with planes and not a pistol, but it was a planned operation.

There is no difference between the Ukrainians tracking some high-ranking officers and cutting loose and killing them with HIMARS when they happen to get within range, and a Ukrainian agent tracking and shooting an individual officer.  That missile and that agent are both weapons of the state in a time of war, and that Russian officer, even when he is inside of Russia or Russian-controlled territory, is a lawful enemy combatant.