Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[Nivek 16992]

It's not really, however it caught a lot of attention because it was broad daylight and quite a few videos made it out that were clear as day, and you had a CBS news crew on the way there, and had they been an hour earlier,  might have been killed/wounded themselves.
I'd toss this random discussion in - I was talking to a relative earlier this afternoon, and he was doing the "oh, we shouldn't send too much, because we'll cross a line and end up in WWIII" and I asked him why Putin kept backing down every time we (and NATO) crossed his red line, whether it was sending tanks, or cruise missiles, or PATRIOT systems, or now F-16s, or admitting Sweden and Finland into NATO, and he just did the "well Putin is ex-KGB, we have to be careful!"
Which then allowed me to point out that Putin's KGB background is a huge part of the reason why he won't start a war with us - because he's ex-KGB, he's scared as hell of being assassinated, either by his own people, or by us. I pointed out that Putin has had people poisoned both within Russia and within Europe (German, England). I mentioned sitting far away from a lot of his subordinates, and the big-ass tables when he met with world leaders, and his response was "Putin is just projecting power and putting them far away at the end of the table because we would not assassinate him."
Which led to me pointing out that we would not assassinate him, but based on his lack of presence in Moscow, his big-ass armored train, his decoys, his security detail cosplaying as all kinds of common Russians for photo ops, his avoidance of the front lines, and so on, he's clearly worried somebody will kill him. We (the collective West) may not assassinate him (well, so far), but he thinks about ways he would assassinate others, and that includes everything from poisoning to things like covid (which was still a big fucking deal even in late 2021 or early 2022 for Russians) or even smuggled bombs, and that's where the physical space comes in with the big-ass tables or the meetings in big rooms.  And when you see him doing photo ops with African or Arab leaders, those people have been thoroughly screened, and in most cases, he knows they are afraid of him, and he's in control of the situation. But he is not going to meet in close quarters with a room full of Russian officers or Western leaders if he can avoid it. 

Your related to Neville Chamberlain?

[MissingInAction 25204]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

Re: the food/gas rationing piece.  The US is a net exporter of food and petroleum products.  Short of nuclear war I don't know how it would ever come to rationing. 

Do you remember the TP wars of covid?

[Pato del Muerto 52616]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

And we need an 80 plus year old POTUS to lean into legacy and not politics

One wonders if team Biden won’t feel comfortable doing that until the second week of November 2024.  They may see losing that election as worse domestic policy than prolonging the Ukrainian war is foreign and domestic policy- since there’s no guarantee that opening the gates would result in complete victory by Election Day which presumably would be beneficial to the election for him. 

[KYHorn 17201]

Lol what a badass

We are ready to exchange Belgorod for NATO membership – Zelenskyy

In response to a question on the possibility of territorial concessions for the sake of Ukraine’s membership in NATO, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that Ukraine was ready to exchange it for the Russian city of Belgorod.

Source: President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, at a joint press conference with Mette Frederiksen, Prime Minister of Denmark

Quote: "We are ready to exchange Belgorod for our membership in NATO."

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/08/20/7416355/ 

Edited August 20, 2023 by KYHorn

[SaucyJack 3504]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

And there needs to be better messaging. We need to lean in and treat this matter like beating this Nazis in 1940. There needs to be clarity on the accounting. And we need an 80 plus year old POTUS to lean into legacy and not politics and explain to the American people that the results of this war will be far more important to our world and America than the current budget.

 

33 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

One wonders if team Biden won’t feel comfortable doing that until the second week of November 2024.  They may see losing that election as worse domestic policy than prolonging the Ukrainian war is foreign and domestic policy- since there’s no guarantee that opening the gates would result in complete victory by Election Day which presumably would be beneficial to the election for him. 

Leaning hard into CR.

Where is McCarthy's leadership on this issue?  Congress can step up at any time.

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2023/06/06/mccarthy--push-for-supplemental-ukraine-aid--not-going-anywhere-

Edited August 20, 2023 by SaucyJack

[KYHorn 17201]

 

 

[Gatorubet 30321]

The issue with this, and I’m in my lane here, is that Europe’s industrial base and stocks aren’t enough and their political will is united only so long as the United States leads. We’d have to be willing to accept that the Europeans would be far more likely to advocate for and enforce a deal that is bad for Ukraine, bad for Europe, and good for Russia. This tack was what Russia hoped to happen when they launched the war and (no CR just truth) it’s why they want a DJT as POTUS. 
 
Security leadership of the largest and riches economic bloc in the world is not a given. And it’s a strategic strength. But you have to exercise that leadership when it counts. 

Well, I certainly agree with some of this, but I see a slight disconnect in what you just posted.  If we have recently been in very close POTUS elections, with a percentage point or two deciding the thing, I do not think it would be in Ukraine’s best interest if Biden lost in some close states shootout due to his increased help of Ukraine that can be spun by Biden’s enemies in a negative way that would connect with just a percentage or two of independents.   I’m sorry, but Ukraine is definitely not my top concern; the ability of the United States to continue to function as a democracy is my prime concern.  And to do that we do not need Trump.  
As you say, not CR, just fact.   I have no idea what the demographics and polling numbers are on the Ukraine issue.   But if Joe can insure a slow Ukraine aide roll prevents a Trump administration - then Joe’s slow rolling is what he needs to do - and what Ukraine needs him to do for important long term success.  

[Gatorubet 30321]

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1693226366127210642?s=42&t=laXV3iaYeqDlzCHsJUvRCQ

I’m not sure why Twitter post will no longer embed.   it looks like the chick who got punched responded with a kick to the boys.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Gatorubet

[Neonmoon 38130]

14 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1693226366127210642?s=42&t=laXV3iaYeqDlzCHsJUvRCQ

I’m not sure why Twitter post will no longer embed. 

The new guy broke it 

[Brisketexan 105438]

Re the F-16s for the Netherlands…and the Dutch being among the fastest and most eager to supply weapons…and Re their intel on the Russians being first-rate: it’s fucking clear that they remember the hell out of MH17, and they remain pissed as hell.
The Dutch are out for Russian blood.
And I’m here for it.

Re the F-16s for the Netherlands…and the Dutch being among the fastest and most eager to supply weapons…and Re their intel on the Russians being first-rate: it’s fucking clear that they remember the hell out of MH17, and they remain pissed as hell.
The Dutch are out for Russian blood.
And I’m here for it.

[Rimbo 26140]

6 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It’s possible to nuke Moscow. Should “everything possible” be the bar?

 

 

5 hours ago, The Dog said:

 

These never fail to crack me up.

 

4 hours ago, MillerEP said:

 

 

I take back everything bad I ever said about the Dutch.

[Rimbo 26140]

Meanwhile, in Phillips P O'Brien's weekend update: Why the Washington Post's recent article is bad and whoever wrote it should feel bad.

Quote

People have too much time on their hands: Things Grind On, Small Advances, Artillery Destruction, and F-16s  ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌ ‌

	View in browser Weekend Update #42 People have too much time on their hands: Things Grind On, Small Advances, Artillery Destruction, and F-16s Phillips P. OBrien Aug 20     READ IN APP   Hello All, Im a little under the weather this week—get back from holiday and come down with some nasty bug. Such is life. Thats why Im a little slower getting things out today, but here is the update! I had to start with the anonymous US sources trying to shift blame for the slow pace of the Ukrainian advances, as its been the big story of the last few days. Of course, remember, these are just stories, the was itself grinds on much as it has been. Phillips’s Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Upgrade to paid People have too much time on their hands Though the counteroffensive continued to grind on much as it has (and the Ukrainians made some advances while destroying Russian artillery) the whole tenor of discussion about the counteroffensive really changed near the end of the week when this story appeared in the Washington Post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/17/ukraine-counteroffensive-melitopol/ On the one hand, it was surprising that one story received so much coverage. Its key sources were all anonymous for one thing. However that was not all. The piece was wildly illogical and showed that the sources either have no understanding of how war works, or deliberately obfuscated to try and justify themselves. I will point out three of the weird problems with the piece—starting from the very beginning. The story opened with this paragraph. “The U.S. intelligence community assesses that Ukraine’s counteroffensive will fail to reach the key southeastern city of Melitopol, people familiar with the classified forecast told The Washington Post, a finding that, should it prove correct, would mean Kyiv won’t fulfill its principal objective of severing Russia’s land bridge to Crimea in this year’s push.” The story then provided a map which actually shows that Ukraine doesnt need to reach Melitopol to functionally divide Russian forces on the Kherson/Dnipro front from those in the east. All the Ukrainians need to do is deny the Russians all road and rail access into Kherson from anywhere in except Crimea, and they would have actually done the job of dividing the forces. At that point, as the map makes clear, all they really need to do is approach Melitopol to achieve that. The roads go in and out of Melitopol and what Ukraine needs to be able to do is exert fire control over those roads. It actually doesnt nee to occupy the city. Whats even weirder, is the story actually assumes the Ukrainians could get very close to Melitopol—remaining only ‘several miles’ outside the city. If Ukraine actually gets within several miles of Melitopol, I can assure you that the counteroffensive will going fine. The actual quote in the article about that is excerpted below. Ukraine’s forces, which are pushing toward Melitopol from the town of Robotyne more than 50 miles away, will remain several miles outside of the city, U.S. officials said. Having started with a confused and non-sensical criticism, the article pivoted to the most pathetic example of blaming the Ukrainians that I have seen in a major piece. Why wont the Ukrainians reach Melitopol? Well the piece first talks about the depth of Russian defenses—which Im sure anyone reading this substack will know about. The Ukrainians have an extremely difficult task in trying to advance into defensive weaponry without air supremacy. However, instead of accepting that reality (amazingly the article never mentions air power once), the anonymous sources blame the Ukrainians for not continuing to bash their forces against Russians defenses. This really is weird, saying the Ukrainian reluctance to accept casualties somehow kept them from achieving a breakthrough. The paragraphs of convuluted reasoning seem to conclude because Ukraine had a success in a war game, it would have it on the battlefield. Joint war games conducted by the U.S., British and Ukrainian militaries anticipated such losses but envisioned Kyiv accepting the casualties as the cost of piercing through Russia’s main defensive line, said U.S. and Western officials. But Ukraine chose to stem the losses on the battlefield and switch to a tactic of relying on smaller units to push forward across different areas of the front. That resulted in Ukraine making incremental gains in different pockets over the summer. Kyiv has recently dedicated more reserves to the front, including Stryker and Challenger units, but has yet to break through Russia’s main defensive line. As the article sneaks in at the end, the Ukrainians are trying to press forward with their best equipment—they are just not being stupid about it. And even though they are using some of their best equipment, its still a struggle to breakthrough many weeks after the campaign to weaken Russian defenses started. The piece might have mentioned that in this war we have not seen a single breakthrough/exploitation against a prepared enemy position Then we have the piece de la resistance of the article—the greatest buck passing Ive seen, which is so egregious that I cant even blame it on stupidity. It is probably willfull mendacity. Having bemoaned the slow Ukrainian advance, and blamed the Ukrainians for not banging their heads against a wall, the article claims that having given Ukraine greater range capacity months earlier would not have helped. ATACMS and F-16s, what good are they, the article claims. U.S. officials reject criticisms that F-16 fighter jets or longer-range missile systems such as ATACMS would have resulted in a different outcome. “The problem remains piercing Russia’s main defensive line, and there’s no evidence these systems would’ve been a panacea,” a senior administration official said. This is extraordinary. This was has reinforced the salient point of all wars, that supply and logistics have a massive influence on what occurs on the front line. If Ukraine had been given greater range capacity months earlier, they could have hammered Russians logistics up and down Russian occupied Ukraine, from Crimea to Mariupol. Indeed, to escape HIMARS, the Russians have moved their depots into these safer regions. This idea that battles are decided just when forces meet on the battlefield is so primitive and wrong-headed that I cant believe that the person made it seriously (you can see why they wanted to remain anonymous), or more, that people seem to be accepting it on face value. So this article was deeply flawed for a number of reasons. garbles the Melitipol question enormously implies there would have been a breakthrough if Ukraine had continued hammering Russian defenses (after telling us that Russian defenses were really strong Conveniently ignores air power, as if one of the most important components of modern war doesnt matter. Says giving Ukraine greater range capacity months ago, would not affect the battlefield today—which is preposterous.   Thank you for reading Phillips’s Newsletter. This post is public so feel free to share it. Share Things Grind On, Small Advances, Artillery Destruction, and F-16s It was fascinating to see how this one story changed a narrative, because what was going on in the battlefield showed the continuation of the Ukrainian campaign to degrade Russian power, push the Russians back slowly, and lay the groundwork (hopefully) for future advances. Indeed up through Wednesday the Ukrainians seem to be having some success going about their business. They liberated the village of Urozhaine (the black box on the right) and pushed into Robotyne (box on left). These are hardly world shattering advances, but they show that the momentum remains with Ukraine. Even as of this morning, Russian reports are of Ukrainian advances around Robotyne. https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1693165172016222385?s=20 Of course, terrain is only part of the story. The Ukrainians are continuing their campaign against Russian artillery, and their claims are that it is still high priority. The claims from this morning are indicative. https://twitter.com/GeneralStaffUA/status/1693145776694710277?s=20 Not only were 33 new systems destroyed, since August 1, the Ukrainians claim to have destroyed 424 artillery and MLRS systems together (see claim below) So in fewer than 3 weeks, the Ukrainians have claimed to destroyed more than 7% of Russian destruction since February 24, 2022. Thats an extremely high relatively high percentage. While Im not saying these are definitely right, the relative balance indicates Ukrainian priorities. And there is some strong visual evidence these days that the Ukrainians campaign is creating a major imbalance in the artillery destruction rate (in their favor). 8 Weeks into that Artillery/UAV War, and is the Ukrainian strategy showing results? Phillips P. OBrien   ·   Aug 17   Hi Everyone, Its now been about 8 weeks since the Ukrainian Army changed its strategy for the counteroffensive, and we might be seeing some real evidence that what its doing is working. Remember this is not easy, its still going to be a long slog, but the Ukrainians are at least giving themselves the best chance for success going forward.   Read full story Such grinding destruction doesnt get much coverage, but it tells us more about the course of the war than anonymous sources. Finally, plans for providng Ukraine with F-16s seem to have been picked up a place. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-long-f16s-training-process-has-begun-defence-minister-2023-08-19/ There is a chance that the F-16s will be operating this winter then, which would be most welcome. Overall, these three stories are all positive for the Ukrainian future, though this week they wont be seen that way.   Phillips’s Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Upgrade to paid   You're currently a free subscriber to Phillips’s Newsletter. For the full experience, upgrade your subscription. Upgrade to paid   Like   Comment   Restack   © 2023 Phillips P. OBrien 548 Market Street PMB 72296, San Francisco, CA 94104 Unsubscribe

 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Hopefully this is sharable?

Quote

Ukraine appears to be running out of options in a counteroffensive that officials originally framed as Kyiv’s crucial operation to retake significant territory from occupying Russian forces this year.

More than two months into the fight, the counteroffensive shows signs of stalling. Kyiv’s advances remain isolated to a handful of villages, Russian troops are pushing forward in the north and a plan to train Ukrainian pilots on U.S.-made F-16s is delayed.

Are you on Telegram? Subscribe to our channel for the latest updates on Russia’s war in Ukraine.
Ukraine’s inability to demonstrate decisive success on the battlefield is stoking fears that the conflict is becoming a stalemate and international support could erode. A new, classified U.S. intelligence report has predicted that the counteroffensive will fail to reach the key southeastern city of Melitopol this year.

Meanwhile, a war weary Ukrainian public is eager for leaders in Kyiv to secure victory and in Washington, calls to cut back on aid to Ukraine are expected to be amplified in the run up to the 2024 U.S. presidential election.

Without more advanced weapons slated to bolster the front line or fully committing forces still being held in reserve, it is unlikely that Ukraine will be able to secure a breakthrough in the counteroffensive, according to analysts.

“The question here is which of the two sides is going to be worn out sooner,” said Franz-Stefan Gady, a senior fellow with the International Institute for Strategic Studies and the Center for a New American Security, who visited Ukraine in July. “We shouldn’t expect the achievement of any major military objectives overnight.”

Gady said that Russia and Ukraine are now in an “attrition” phase, attempting to sap each other’s resources rather than secure significant territorial advances. With its ground forces largely stymied, Ukraine has mounted a flurry of new drone strikes on Russian soil, including targets in Moscow, but the strikes have caused minimal damage.

U.S. intelligence says Ukraine will fail to meet offensive’s key goal

When asked about the counteroffensive’s progress, Western and Ukrainian officials call for patience, describing the fight as slower than expected, but insisting that it is steadily making gains.

However, the window of time for Ukraine to conduct offensive operations is limited. Last year, Ukrainian forces made little progress after recapturing the southern city of Kherson in early November, as inhospitable weather set in.

With its ground forces advancing slowly, Ukraine is using drone strikes to expand its military’s reach as it waits for more advanced munitions and training — including greater air power, said Yuriy Sak, an adviser to Ukraine’s minister of defense.

“We don’t have the F-16s yet so we have to find a way to make up for their absence and drones are somewhat used to compensate for the lack of aviation,” he said.

A self-detonating drone unit of the SBU's Special Operations Center “Alpha” in the Zaporizhzhia region on June 19. (Sasha Maslov for The Washington Post)

A self-detonating drone is launched on the southern front line of Ukraine. (Sasha Maslov for The Washington Post)
Ukraine’s main internal intelligence agency was behind the maritime drone attacks that recently struck a major Russian port and a Russian oil tanker near occupied Crimea, according to a Ukrainian intelligence official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter.

Kyiv’s statements on attacks in Moscow are more opaque. The government publicly distances itself from the strikes, while some officials acknowledge involvement.

But analysts caution that while the drone attacks can shift attention away from Ukraine’s slow-moving ground counteroffensive, they are unlikely to tip the balance of the war in Kyiv’s favor.

“The Ukrainians just don’t have enough capacity to build enough drones and strike deep inside Russian territory at enough targets to erode Russia’s will to fight,” said Bob Hamilton, a retired U.S. Army colonel and head of research at the Foreign Policy Research Institute’s Eurasia Program.

Inside the Russian effort to build 6,000 attack drones with Iran’s help

Russia also has sophisticated methods to combat Ukrainian drones with jammers and detection. The Kremlin claims to have largely thwarted a wave of Ukrainian drone attacks over the past week. On Saturday, the Russian Defense Ministry said it downed 20 Ukrainian drones targeting Crimea overnight.

“I don’t think a single weapons system can be a silver bullet,” Hamilton said.

Ukraine has been also striking Russian logistical targets with longer-range munitions far from the front line for months, but so far the effect of such strikes has not been reflected on the Russian front line, Gady said.

“We know that the Russian position has deteriorated, but it hasn’t deteriorated to the degree where you could expect an imminent collapse,” he said. A campaign of longer-range strikes, also referred to as the “deep battle,” can be described as successful when the opponent’s forces can no longer call on reserve forces or conduct basic support functions like resupply.

Rather than crumble, however, Russian forces are putting up fierce resistance, and even making offensive advances. In northeastern Ukraine, authorities in Kupyansk ordered a mass evacuation of civilians. The city was part of a large swath of occupied territory that Ukraine recaptured in September and October of last year.

A Ukrainian Red Cross volunteer helps a person get to a car during an evacuation in Kupyansk, Ukraine, on Aug. 14. (Bram Janssen/AP)
On the southern front, Ukrainian forces are continuing to employ a painstakingly slow approach to secure advances, rather than favoring speed as western allies like the United States recommended.

Last month, Ukrainian forces pushed into Staromaiorske, the first village to be retaken in weeks, raising hopes that the advance could be a tempo-changing breakthrough involving Western-trained reserve troops. It was not. It took another three weeks before Ukrainian forces liberated the adjacent village of Urozhaine, and they reportedly suffered heavy losses.

Reaching the sea of Azov and snapping Russia’s land bridge to Crimea is one of the publicly acknowledged goals of the counteroffensive. But the Staromaiorske advances did not involve new tactics. Reconnaissance units surveyed Russian defenses to strike weak points and allow smaller units — often on foot — to move in with a demining team, said Serhiy Kuzmin, the military spokesman for the area.

Sak, the adviser to the defense minister, said the slow progress clearing extensive mine fields along the front is preventing Kyiv from engaging the majority of its Western-trained reserve forces.

“To commit our reserve forces we need to be sure that the pathways are clear,” he said. “We would rather go slower and make sure that we preserve the lives of our troops.”

Ukrainian forces have retaken roughly 81 square miles of occupied territory since the counteroffensive began in June, with the greatest gains occurring near Bakhmut in the east and in the Zaporizhzhia region south of Orikhiv.

Black smoke rises in an industrial area in Zaporizhzhia after a Russian missile strike on July 7. (Ed Ram for The Washington Post)
To create a sense of momentum, and raise the cost of the war for regular Russian citizens, Ukraine has increased its attacks inside Russia. But that effort to expand the battlespace must rely on Ukraine’s own drones rather than Western-supplied weapons because of restrictions on using NATO weapons to hit Russia on its own territory — and the strategy also comes with risks, analysts said.

The Biden administration has “very successfully” managed risk of a direct conflict with Russia by gradually providing Kyiv with more advanced weapons systems and longer-range munitions, said Kelly Grieco, who researches air power operations as a senior fellow at the Stimson Center, a D.C.-based policy group.

“From the start of this war, one of the things Ukraine’s allies have been concerned about is ending up in some inadvertent escalation,” she said.

Russia recruited operatives online to target weapons crossing Poland

Kyiv has requested longer-range missiles called ATACMS, the Army Tactical Missile System, from the United States for months, but the Biden administration has so far refused to provide them, citing limited supplies and fears of an escalating confrontation with Russia.

The United Kingdom and France sent Kyiv similar munitions earlier this year.

Biden administration officials have repeatedly said the United States does not encourage or enable strikes inside Russia.

Increasing the range of weapons systems provided by the United States and others has “come with a lot of assurances from Kyiv that would not use that equipment to target Russian territory,” Grieco said.

If Ukraine expands the use of drones — as the counteroffensive continues in a slow grind, she said, “that still has the potential to make the West anxious about whether Ukraine will continue to exercise that kind of restraint.”

 

[Rimbo 26140]

2 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Hopefully this is sharable?

 

That's literally the article that O'Brien was calling complete rubbish and/or Kremlin propaganda.

[Dahobbs 17694]

6 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

"Doesn't matter, won't move the needle."

To be absolutely clear, that isn't at all what I was saying. Getting F-16s (or really, any aircraft) to Ukraine is important. But it isn't in a game changer in the sense that it doesn't, in and of itself, drastically change Ukraine's capabilities or the overall battlefield picture. The original supply of HIMARs and GMLRs was a game changer because it allowed Ukraine to accurately hit greater depths of targets, largely outside of the effective range of Russian artillery/rocket response. The arrival of Storm Shadow and SCALP was similarly game-changing. A handful of F-16s don't present that sort of dynamic, even if they are absolutely vital to Ukraine's long-term prospects.  They replace capabilities that have been attrited over time, but don't by themselves give Ukraine a new capability it didn't have before. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Dahobbs

[The Dog 44160]

[Deej 76946]

5 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Do you remember the TP wars of covid?

As a bidet owner, it didn't really effect me.

[atomheartbevo 89827]

7 minutes ago, Deej said:

As a bidet owner, it didn't really effect me.

[Pato del Muerto 52616]

8 minutes ago, Deej said:

As a bidet owner, it didn't really effect me.

Does your bidet have a blow dryer?

[Deej 76946]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Does your bidet have a blow dryer?

The amount of toilet paper required is minimal once all the shit is washed away.

[The Dog 44160]

 

[Rimbo 26140]

5 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Do you remember the TP wars of covid?

 

16 minutes ago, Deej said:

As a bidet owner, it didn't really effect me.

 

8 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

Kinda reliving that here in SoCal right now. Everyone raiding shelves for TP thanks to Hurricane Hilary.

 

7 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Does your bidet have a blow dryer?

 

Both of mine do, actually.

[Auto Driller 2506]

30 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

To be absolutely clear, that isn't at all what I was saying. Getting F-16s (or really, any aircraft) to Ukraine is important. But it isn't in a game changer in the sense that it doesn't, in and of itself, drastically change Ukraine's capabilities or the overall battlefield picture. The original supply of HIMARs and GMLRs was a game changer because it allowed Ukraine to accurately hit greater depths of targets, largely outside of the effective range of Russian artillery/rocket response. The arrival of Storm Shadow and SCALP was similarly game-changing. A handful of F-16s don't present that sort of dynamic, even if they are absolutely vital to Ukraine's long-term prospects.  They replace capabilities that have been attrited over time, but don't by themselves give Ukraine a new capability it didn't have before. 

I am by no means an expert on these weapon systems, but my understanding was that the F16 provides a response to one of the most effective tactics Russia has employed during the counteroffensive - the use of low-flying KA52 helicopters to destroy Ukrainian armor. The helicopters fly lower than the effective floor of air defense systems and strike from 10+ km away to eliminate the threat of MANPADS. Fighter jets can be scrambled, fly similarly low, and strike back with air to air missiles.

[Pato del Muerto 52616]

1 minute ago, Rimbo said:

Kinda reliving that here in SoCal right now. Everyone raiding shelves for TP thanks to Hurricane Hilary.

 

Isn’t that a cat 1, bro?

[Deej 76946]

Just now, Rimbo said:

Both of mine do, actually

[Chopper 17287]

8 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Does your bidet have a blow dryer?

The blow dryers are useless without a scanner to make sure there's no shit left. The need for toilet paper, muck like the block button, will never fully disappear.

[Rimbo 26140]

14 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Isn’t that a cat 1, bro?

 

Downgraded to a Tropical Storm.

 

14 minutes ago, Chopper said:

The blow dryers are useless without a scanner to make sure there's no shit left. The need for toilet paper, muck like the block button, will never fully disappear.

 

Nonsense. If your bidet doesn't remove all the shit, you got a shit bidet. Once the bidet has run, there's just water left. At that point, TP/dryer just needs to dry it out.

[Dahobbs 17694]

47 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

I am by no means an expert on these weapon systems, but my understanding was that the F16 provides a response to one of the most effective tactics Russia has employed during the counteroffensive - the use of low-flying KA52 helicopters to destroy Ukrainian armor. The helicopters fly lower than the effective floor of air defense systems and strike from 10+ km away to eliminate the threat of MANPADS. Fighter jets can be scrambled, fly similarly low, and strike back with air to air missiles.

Ukraine has fighters that can perform that function. F-16s allow them to continue to do so. But part of the problem is that neither system is going to be very survivable in the face of air defenses. The main thing f-16s that Ukraine's current platforms don't is allow them utilize most NATO weaponry. Depending upon the version they get, it may also improve their situational awareness. Though it is hard to say how well Ukraine would be able to integrate more advanced systems on newer blocks of f-16s. Also, it isn't ideal to fire missiles from low altitude. It drastically reduces their range. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Dahobbs

[atomheartbevo 89827]

  

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Does your bidet have a blow dryer?

1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

Both of mine do, actually.

Us poors are having to make do with manservants using wet sponges and actual blow dryers.

Edited August 21, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[atomheartbevo 89827]

29 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Ukraine has fighters that can perform that function. F-16s allow them to continue to do so. But part of the problem is that neither system is going to be very survivable in the face of air defenses. The main thing f-16s that Ukraine's current platforms don't is allow them utilize most NATO weaponry. Depending upon the version they get, it may also improve their situational awareness. Though it is hard to say how well Ukraine would be able to integrate more advanced systems on newer blocks of f-16s. Also, it isn't ideal to fire missiles from low altitude. It drastically reduces their range. 

The bigger issue maybe that Ukraine's MiG pipeline is going to run dry soon, if it hasn't already.

Given that the Ukrainians developed software on an Android tablet that allowed them to run a cable from the tablet in the MiG cockpit out to the missile launcher, to properly target and launch HARM missiles that were made in the 1990s for American F-14s, I have a lot of faith that they are going to school us on what an older F-16 can do.  We have a whole lot of aerial weapons sitting in storage that they could use, and not just 1990s-era HARM missiles for the F-14s.

[The Dog 44160]

 

[Bevo 13601]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

The blow dryers are useless without a scanner to make sure there's no shit left. The need for toilet paper, muck like the block button, will never fully disappear.

I'm a little confused, do you wipe before using the bidet or do you use the bidet and then wipe or do you wipe, run to the bidet, and then run back to the toilet and wipe again?

[BamaATL 16593]

Sort of looks like a morning commute

 

[Schulz2.0 29012]

 

 

 

[Armybrat 40920]

17 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Sort of looks like a morning commute

 

Watch out for flying turrets.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

2 hours ago, Rimbo said:

That's literally the article that O'Brien was calling complete rubbish and/or Kremlin propaganda.

Do you agree the article is rubbish and/or propaganda? It seemed pretty reasonable to me. 

What in the article do you take issue with?

[Pato del Muerto 52616]

31 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Sort of looks like a morning commute

 

[Gatorubet 30321]

https://x.com/thestudyofwar/status/1693443142542918010?s=42&t=laXV3iaYeqDlzCHsJUvRCQ

apparently lots of dead officers.

[atomheartbevo 89827]

Twitter is fucked up right now, but apparently Russian bloggers are claiming that Ukrainians are in the center of Robotdyne.  If true, Tokmak is going to enter the chat soon.

[Bevo 13601]

Ukraine changes its approach to counteroffensive – The Economist

Alona Mazurenko — Sunday, 20 August 2023, 18:55

66491

 

Ukraine has changed its tactics since the start of its counteroffensive in June 2023. Instead of using the approach that involves heavy losses, the Ukrainians are now trying to suppress the Russian forces with artillery, electronic warfare systems and UAVs. 

Source: The Economist

Quote: "We no longer plan operations that presuppose large losses. The emphasis is now on degrading the enemy: artillery, drones, electronic warfare and so on."

Details: Referring to a source in the Ukrainian General Staff, The Economist writes that Ukraine has received only 60 Leopard tanks, despite having been promised hundreds.

 

Now, according to the sources of the Economist, there is a catastrophic lack of demining machines.

Quote: "We simply don’t have the resources to do the frontal attacks that the West is imploring us to do."

Another problem is the lack of air cover, which makes it difficult for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to break through Russian minefields and defence lines.

Only the latest news, only the facts, only the truth. Follow Ukrainska Pravda on Twitter!

For this reason, the military leadership of Ukraine postponed the counteroffensive for as long as it could.

It is noted that the beginning of the counteroffensive in June was "disastrous". The media reported that two brigades trained in the West lost many people and equipment in minefields. After that, the original plans were adjusted.

According to the source of the General Staff, since then Ukraine has made a priority on preserving the army.

According to The Economist, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have made significant advancements on the southern front and may have managed to get past enough minefields to reach the first of the three lines of Russian defence, but after two and a half months, Ukraine is still far from achieving its strategic objective of approaching the Sea of Azov and closing Russia's land route to the Crimea.

[Auto Driller 2506]

12 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Ukraine changes its approach to counteroffensive – The Economist

Alona Mazurenko — Sunday, 20 August 2023, 18:55

66491

 

Ukraine has changed its tactics since the start of its counteroffensive in June 2023. Instead of using the approach that involves heavy losses, the Ukrainians are now trying to suppress the Russian forces with artillery, electronic warfare systems and UAVs. 

Source: The Economist

Quote: "We no longer plan operations that presuppose large losses. The emphasis is now on degrading the enemy: artillery, drones, electronic warfare and so on."

Details: Referring to a source in the Ukrainian General Staff, The Economist writes that Ukraine has received only 60 Leopard tanks, despite having been promised hundreds.

 

Now, according to the sources of the Economist, there is a catastrophic lack of demining machines.

Quote: "We simply don’t have the resources to do the frontal attacks that the West is imploring us to do."

Another problem is the lack of air cover, which makes it difficult for the Armed Forces of Ukraine to break through Russian minefields and defence lines.

Only the latest news, only the facts, only the truth. Follow Ukrainska Pravda on Twitter!

For this reason, the military leadership of Ukraine postponed the counteroffensive for as long as it could.

It is noted that the beginning of the counteroffensive in June was "disastrous". The media reported that two brigades trained in the West lost many people and equipment in minefields. After that, the original plans were adjusted.

According to the source of the General Staff, since then Ukraine has made a priority on preserving the army.

According to The Economist, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have made significant advancements on the southern front and may have managed to get past enough minefields to reach the first of the three lines of Russian defence, but after two and a half months, Ukraine is still far from achieving its strategic objective of approaching the Sea of Azov and closing Russia's land route to the Crimea.

It’s pretty shitty that we (NATO as a whole) promise XX of a certain weapon system, deliver 20% of that number in double the time, and get upset that the Ukrainians aren’t driving this equipment full speed into minefields.

[Chad Fuck 17811]

It’s pretty shitty that we (NATO as a whole) promise XX of a certain weapon system, deliver 20% of that number in double the time, and get upset that the Ukrainians aren’t driving this equipment full speed into minefields.

You left out we will also get upset when they do drive it full speed into minefields.

[Rimbo 26140]

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Do you agree the article is rubbish and/or propaganda? It seemed pretty reasonable to me. 

What in the article do you take issue with?

Phillips' article, that I quoted and linked to, explains the problems with the WaPo article far better than I ever could.

 

Edit: I may have been hasty; I saw the Tankie take in your article and assumed it was the same Tankie take as the one Phillips sliced apart.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Rimbo

[AUS-97HORN 11824]

41 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

https://x.com/thestudyofwar/status/1693443142542918010?s=42&t=laXV3iaYeqDlzCHsJUvRCQ

apparently lots of dead officers.

"privates are in charge of companies"

 

uh thats absolutely astonishing. I know they have a tough non-com problem, but having a fucking PFC command a company is mind blowing.

Like even when Easy Company had lost 6 LT's in less than a month from Jan to Feb '45, Malarky, who, I believe, was an E7, led the 2nd Platoon of Easy.  There were 3 platoons in Easy, and even after losing 6 fucking officers, they only had 1 platoon not led by a LT. 

today, an average American normal-strength company has something like 30-40 or so ranks higher than PFC (officers/SGT/Spec4).  

Edited August 21, 2023 by AUS-97HORN

[Chopper 17287]

3 hours ago, Rimbo said:

Nonsense. If your bidet doesn't remove all the shit, you got a shit bidet. Once the bidet has run, there's just water left. At that point, TP/dryer just needs to dry it out.

 

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

I'm a little confused, do you wipe before using the bidet or do you use the bidet and then wipe or do you wipe, run to the bidet, and then run back to the toilet and wipe again?

Toto washlet x 2. All the options. The russians would try to steal my fucking toilets.

Just like all of yours.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Chopper

[Steel Shank 9432]

13 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

It’s possible to nuke Moscow. Should “everything possible” be the bar?

 

13 hours ago, Steel Shank said:

How about this: Is there more we can be doing to help prevent these attacks?

I apologize if I missed your answer.

@WhatTheBuck 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Steel Shank

[Schulz2.0 29012]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Twitter is fucked up right now, but apparently Russian bloggers are claiming that Ukrainians are in the center of Robotdyne.  If true, Tokmak is going to enter the chat soon.

 

[TKthunder2 4997]

4 hours ago, Bevo said:

I'm a little confused, do you wipe before using the bidet or do you use the bidet and then wipe or do you wipe, run to the bidet, and then run back to the toilet and wipe again?

Spoiler below but we have a whole thread dedicated to bidet questions if you’re curious. 

Spoiler

Its not a separate bidet like you see when you go to Mexico it’s a seat that fits on your regular toilet with a little bidet wand that pops out and squirts your asshole. Step by step instructions below.

Shit all you can.

Turn on bidet. Many settings and options but I go with Max power/oscillate.

This should clear out any pebbles you didn’t get out and wash away the streaks from the log you dropped.

You can adjust the nozzle front and back some to make sure to get a deep clean or just wiggle around a bit.

Turn off the water a wipe or use the dryer.

 

[Schulz2.0 29012]

6 hours ago, BamaATL said:

Sort of looks like a morning commute

 

Geolocated to near Klishchiivka. Andrew Perpetua had mentioned in his latest livestream that the Russians keep trying to recapture Klishchiivka, even though it's hard to defend and holds no strategic value, and are taking a high number of casualties in doing so.

[Schulz2.0 29012]