Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[Saint Austin 739]

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

FIFY. And ukraine keeps the Kursk salient. What about rebuilding? So Ukraine gets a fucked nation? Toothless peacekeepers? EU should tell Trump nah, we are not doing that.

This was set up to fail and not be accepted, giving the administration the argument of see, we tried.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want Ukraine to take back the entire Donbas and Crimea, too, but I'm not sure for how long how feasible that will be.

[Captainant 27196]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

FIFY. And ukraine keeps the Kursk salient. What about rebuilding? So Ukraine gets a fucked nation? Toothless peacekeepers? EU should tell Trump nah, we are not doing that.

This was set up to fail and not be accepted, giving the administration the argument of see, we tried.

Unsurprisingly, President Zelensky agrees with you

Speaking to European leaders at a summit in Hungary, Zelenskyy blasted those who were pressuring him to give in to some of Putin's hardline demands.

"There has been much talk about the need to yield to Putin, to back down, to make some concessions," Zelenskyy said, according to a copy of the address provided to AFP by the Ukrainian presidency.

"It's unacceptable for Ukraine and suicidal for all Europe," he added.

He also accused some European leaders, without specifying which ones, of "strongly" pushing Ukraine to compromise.

"We need sufficient weapons, not support in talks. Hugs with Putin won't help. Some of you have been hugging him for 20 years, and things are only getting worse," Zelenskyy said.

[InkaUtexas 25164]

1 minute ago, Saint Austin said:

Don't get me wrong, I want Ukraine to take back the entire Donbas and Crimea, too, but I'm not sure for how long how feasible that will be.

Let Russia keep Donbas if need be. Not Crimea. And trade Donbas for Kursk.

[MillerEP 30306]

The plan specifically says no US or UN oversight? So what exactly is stopping him from re-arming and just re-attacking with a better plan again? I sincerely hope they either drastically modify that deal or decline it altogether. Ukraine has been burned way too many times to trust Putin to not just ignore any deals again. 

[InkaUtexas 25164]

OSCE led EU deployed monitoring force. Same one that was there from 2014 up to the invasion. OSCE is still in Ukraine. Russia did not let them over the border much.

[Brisketexan 104181]

8 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

The plan specifically says no US or UN oversight? So what exactly is stopping him from re-arming and just re-attacking with a better plan again?

What is to stop him from doing that?

Nothing.

Which is exactly why that is the plan being proposed.

[27-25 2038]

Unfortunately, the Donbas and Crimea may never be retaken, barring a complete collapse of Russia.  I don't like that at all.  But it just doesn't look probable.

But if anyone is going to talk about territorial concessions (and even then only with REAL safeguards in place, which this proposal does not seem to have), then both banks of the Dnieper River MUST be under Ukrainian control.  They need to be able to ship their agricultural products out without Russian fuckery and interference.  So at least part of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia territory needs to be returned to Ukraine.

[Schulz2.0 28698]

One less Ka-52.

[bolverk 29177]

Russian Army Major General Klimenko Killed in Ukraine

Russian Army Major General Pavel Klimenko, who commanded the 5th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade, was killed in Ukraine.

The death of 47-year-old Klymenko was first reported by the Russsian pro-war bloggers.

The Russian online media Vazhnye Istorii managed to confirm the identities of his sisters, who commented on Klimenko’s death on social media.

The General’s sister, Kateryna Klymenko, also confirmed in a conversation with Russian media ASTRA that he had died.

Sister Iryna left condolences in the comments to the post.

Klymenko was accused of organizing torture and collecting money from his subordinates for sending them to the rear. The circumstances of his death are unknown.

According to ASTRA’s investigation, Klymenko organized the torture of Russian military servicemen on the territory of an abandoned mine in occupied Donetsk.

They were forced to agree to participate in assault groups, and money was extorted from them.

Some Russian bloggers criticized Klimenko for the high casualties.

There were claims that soldiers in his unit could pay a bribe to be reassigned to the rear.

In the comments on a post about his death in a social media group, dozens of messages—likely from relatives of other deceased Russian soldiers—criticized the general. The post has since been deleted.

Russia has confirmed the deaths of seven generals in Ukraine over the two years of full-scale war. In fact, the Russian army’s losses among generals may be higher. In 2023, it became known that Russian Major General Sergei Goryachev was eliminated as a result of successful actions by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

[bolverk 29177]

I'm only posting a portion of the article because if I posted more, it would be seen by some as CR and not news. Click the free link for more: https://archive.is/KokUH 

 

Ukraine Now Faces a Nuclear Decision
(original article: https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/11/07/ukraine-now-faces-a-nuclear-decision/)

Last month, with little fanfare, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky made the stakes of the ongoing war in Ukraine as clear as possible. With Russian troops bearing down on Ukraine’s east, and with Western support continuing to flag, Zelensky clarified the potential outcomes of the war. “Either Ukraine will have nuclear weapons and that will be our protection or we should have some sort of alliance,” he said. “Apart from NATO, today we do not know any effective alliances.”

It was the first time the Ukrainian president had revealed an outcome that has become, for the war’s observers, increasingly inescapable. In this war for Ukraine’s survival, with Kyiv facing both declining men and materiel, the only surefire way of preventing Ukraine’s ongoing destruction is NATO membership—a reality that has gained more supporters since the war’s beginning but still remains years away. Barring such an outcome, as Zelensky outlined, only one option remains: developing Ukraine’s own nuclear arsenal and returning it to the role of a nuclear power that it gave up some three decades ago.

For Western interlocutors, Zelensky’s revelation may have come as a shock. But for anyone paying attention to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s accelerating designs, the revelation that Kyiv may pursue its own nuclear arsenal is anything but. Putin, after all, has only grown increasingly messianic and monomaniacal in his efforts to shatter Ukraine. Previous designs on simply toppling Kyiv have given way to outright efforts to “destroy Ukrainian statehood,” especially following Ukraine’s successful occupation in Russia’s Kursk region, as the Moscow Times recently reported. With Ukrainian statehood—and even Ukrainian identity, given Russia’s genocidal efforts—at stake, any nation would understandably pursue any option available for survival.

Perhaps more importantly, Zelensky is resurfacing an important part of Ukrainian history that many in the West seem to have forgotten but that the West bears significant responsibility for. In the aftermath of the Soviet collapse, Ukraine emerged as one of a handful of nations to claim a segment of the Soviet nuclear arsenal. And almost immediately, the United States and Russia led a joint effort to strip Ukraine of its new weapons, succeeding in 1994 via the now infamous Budapest Memorandum. It was a move that, at the time, resulted in rounds of condescending self-congratulation around Washington—and that, in time, set the stage for Russia’s later invasion of Ukraine. Now, as Zelensky has made clear, that bill is coming due—and the West now faces the option of finally welcoming Ukraine into NATO’s ranks or risking it becoming a nuclear power once more.

[956 Worldwide 34176]

Thanks, @InkaUtexas for tagging me.  I know I’ve dipped from this thread.  This might be my last post in here. 
 

In early March 2022 I was in deep southeastern Poland.  So deep that it wasn’t always really Poland. I was there with the grandmas and the kids with cats in their arms and the moms trying to carry all their luggage.  I caught my first case of COVID in a World Central Kitchen outpost. 
 

I really haven’t left there and every day since has brought Ukraine to me. 
 

This is true: Ukraine is heading towards a loss in this war, whether faster or slower.  I did not say that Russia will win, but Ukraine is heading for a loss. That is where the road heads.  Ukraine is smaller, Russia is bigger, and Putin wants Ukraine to lose more than we want it to win.  It’s a math equation now.
 

I have never been more proud of being an American than I was in March 2022 but since the about the summer of 2023, all that has been whittled away down to nothing.  2022 was the purest test of whether America wanted to be America since 1941.  We failed. Many of us don’t want to be America anymore, and many of those who want to be America are not brave enough to actually do it.  I don’t know who makes me angrier, except maybe myself. 
 

The Poles and the Balts and the Czechs are better Americans than we are but they just don’t have enough.  Sometimes only America can be America.  
 

This has consumed my life for almost 1000 days, and it will continue to consumer it until it ends one way or another.  I’ll keep at it, but I can’t look at my Ukrainian friends in the eyes anymore and I can’t write about it anymore. 

[InkaUtexas 25164]

21 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Thanks, @InkaUtexas for tagging me.  I know I’ve dipped from this thread.  This might be my last post in here. 
 

In early March 2022 I was in deep southeastern Poland.  So deep that it wasn’t always really Poland. I was there with the grandmas and the kids with cats in their arms and the moms trying to carry all their luggage.  I caught my first case of COVID in a World Central Kitchen outpost. 
 

I really haven’t left there and every day since has brought Ukraine to me. 
 

This is true: Ukraine is heading towards a loss in this war, whether faster or slower.  I did not say that Russia will win, but Ukraine is heading for a loss. That is where the road heads.  Ukraine is smaller, Russia is bigger, and Putin wants Ukraine to lose more than we want it to win.  It’s a math equation now.
 

I have never been more proud of being an American than I was in March 2022 but since the about the summer of 2023, all that has been whittled away down to nothing.  2022 was the purest test of whether America wanted to be America since 1941.  We failed. Many of us don’t want to be America anymore, and many of those who want to be America are not brave enough to actually do it.  I don’t know who makes me angrier, except maybe myself. 
 

The Poles and the Balts and the Czechs are better Americans than we are but they just don’t have enough.  Sometimes only America can be America.  
 

This has consumed my life for almost 1000 days, and it will continue to consumer it until it ends one way or another.  I’ll keep at it, but I can’t look at my Ukrainian friends in the eyes anymore and I can’t write about it anymore. 

Hang in there. There are a few places I will never shake off. And few understand that sentiment.

You got this. Fight like a Ukrainian.

[atomheartbevo 89285]

I don't mean to derail, but came across this little talk about the cultural difference between Russia and the West.

 

From about a year ago: