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Posted

This is interesting but I'm guessing Rubio is either in denial or confused

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Quote

 

After meeting with Russian negotiators to discuss the future of the war in Ukraine, Secretary of State Marco Rubio signaled a dramatic reset in relations with the Kremlin, trumpeting “the incredible opportunities that exist to partner with the Russians.”

Hours later, though, Mr. Rubio sought to reassure nervous European allies that the talks did not represent an abrupt departure from American policies, as many feared.

Rather, the talks this week in Saudi Arabia’s capital, Riyadh, were meant as a first step in a process, a test of whether the Kremlin was serious about making a deal, Mr. Rubio said in a call with several European diplomats.

European officials were not sure what to make of Mr. Rubio’s measured assessment, which came as leaders on the continent struggled to make sense of the apparent renewal of the relationship between Washington and Moscow.

 
 

Mr. Rubio told the Europeans that no, the Trump administration had no plans to impose the terms of any bilateral agreement with Russia on Ukraine and Europe, according to a summary of the call prepared by European officials.

No, he said, the administration would not lift U.S. sanctions on Russia absent a noticeable change in Moscow’s behavior, though he left the door open to easing some sanctions in limited ways if the Russians began taking steps that the administration was seeking.

And yes, Mr. Rubio said, the Trump administration was cleareyed that Russia could be attempting to use the talks to sow divisions in the West or to ease its isolation on the international stage, according to the summary, which was reviewed by The New York Times.

The State Department did not respond to a request for comment on Mr. Rubio’s discussion with the Europeans.

On Wednesday, President Emmanuel Macron of France called for a second emergency meeting in Paris to hammer out a strategy amid growing fears that the United States would abandon its decades-long role in providing for European security.

 
 

After years of working to isolate the Kremlin following its February 2022 invasion of Ukraine, the White House under President Trump has appeared to flip the script.

In the 24 hours after the meeting in Riyadh wrapped up, Mr. Trump made a series of demands and false statements that appeared to embrace the worldview of Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin, while blaming Ukraine for the war.

He called President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine a dictator, and falsely declared that Kyiv somehow tricked the United States into supporting it in a war that Ukraine’s leaders started.

He also mocked Ukrainians’ complaints that their country, having sacrificed tens of thousands of lives to preserve its independence, had been left out of negotiations about its future.

“I hear that they’re upset about not having a seat,” Mr. Trump said on Tuesday, speaking to reporters at Mar-a-Lago, his estate in Florida. “Just a half-baked negotiator could have settled this years ago without, I think, without the loss of much land, very little land. Without the loss of any lives.”

 
 

At no point did Mr. Trump criticize Mr. Putin, who, in fact, started the war by invading Ukraine.

After meeting with Russian officials for more than four hours in Riyadh on Tuesday, Mr. Rubio provided few details publicly about what was achieved. He said Russia and the United States had agreed to work on a peace settlement for Ukraine, lauding Mr. Trump as “the only leader in the world” who could have pulled off such a rapprochement between longtime adversaries.

One of his partners in the American delegation, Steve Witkoff, the Middle East envoy and a longtime friend of Mr. Trump, described the meeting as “positive, upbeat, constructive.”

Mr. Rubio’s message to European officials after the meeting in Riyadh was more nuanced and conciliatory, according to the summary of the call, which included officials from Britain, France, Germany and Italy.

Part of the call was devoted to explaining why the Ukrainians and the Europeans were not included in the talks.

It was not, Mr. Rubio said, because the United States was sidelining its allies, as Mr. Trump’s remarks may have suggested. Rather, he said, much of the conversation had centered on bilateral issues between the United States and Russia. This included opening a discussion about lifting restrictions on their embassies, which have been effectively shuttered in both countries because of the many diplomats who have been expelled.

 
 

Negotiations between U.S. and Russian officials over removing these diplomatic restrictions would serve as a first test of Russia’s intentions, Mr. Rubio explained. Failure to successfully negotiate over the embassies, he said, would show that the Kremlin was not serious about negotiating an end to the Ukraine war.

Mr. Rubio told the Europeans that he was unable to say, based on that one meeting, whether the Russians were serious about making a deal. But he said they had given enough of an indication that they might be to warrant further discussions.

Mr. Rubio ended the call, according to the summary, by promising to keep America’s allies informed and by urging unity.

 

 

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Posted
On 2/19/2025 at 9:25 AM, Parliament said:

They promise to sell more oil and drive US gasoline prices down. 

This is precisely correct. You might have been joking, but Trump wants Russian oil flowing, because without it, the impending supply crisis will be on his watch. All his bullshit rhetoric about VZ being a dictator and this being Ukraine’s fault is a thinly-veiled smokescreen that his base will lap up. 

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Posted
Just now, Rex Kramer said:

This is precisely correct. You might have been joking, but Trump wants Russian oil flowing, because without it, the impending supply crisis will be on his watch. All his bullshit rhetoric about VZ being a dictator and this being Ukraine’s fault is a thinly-veiled smokescreen that his base will lap up. 

Hey man, those lifted and stanced F350s aren't gonna run cyclists off the roads on their own

Posted
10 hours ago, Chopper said:

This is interesting but I'm guessing Rubio is either in denial or confused

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I've been wondering how Rubio was going to handle all this.  He's the most "traditional Republican" of the whole administration, and his post as SoS puts him in the face of the most non-traditional Republican stance the admin has taken -- buddying up to Russia.  It'll be interesting to see if he can (1) steer policy a little less Russia friendly (2) ends up getting at odds with Trump and having to resign (3) just tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth and survive for four years.

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Posted
I've been wondering how Rubio was going to handle all this.  He's the most "traditional Republican" of the whole administration, and his post as SoS puts him in the face of the most non-traditional Republican stance the admin has taken -- buddying up to Russia.  It'll be interesting to see if he can (1) steer policy a little less Russia friendly (2) ends up getting at odds with Trump and having to resign (3) just tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth and survive for four years.

Those are all good questions.

But 2 is the guarantee.
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Posted
13 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I've been wondering how Rubio was going to handle all this.  He's the most "traditional Republican" of the whole administration, and his post as SoS puts him in the face of the most non-traditional Republican stance the admin has taken -- buddying up to Russia.  It'll be interesting to see if he can (1) steer policy a little less Russia friendly (2) ends up getting at odds with Trump and having to resign (3) just tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth and survive for four years.

I'm getting big "Judas steer" vibes from Rubio. He's being put out there to identify those who do not align with the Leaders wishes, so they can be more easily purged later.

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Posted
15 hours ago, Born to Run said:

Watching the nukes roll in from a van or a tent up in the High Sierras is looking pretty fucking appealing right now.

I'll be heading towards ground zero thank you very much.  Post apocalyptic anti-zombie life seems like a downer.

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Posted

I stopped posting on this thread, after a “shit posting” penalty (I linked a fact based WSJ editorial that made a point about Biden WH Ukraine policy that was confirmed two days later in a news report). 
 
I get it. I know what this message board is about. 
 
I realize this post may be turned in, too, which is fine. I’m going to make some assertions that I think are founded. 
 
1. Trump doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine. It’s not because he is a sociopath (although I think there is plenty of evidence of many emotional dysfunctions)- for example, he likes Israel just fine. For some screwed up reason, evidence of atrocities and crimes committed on Ukrainians doesn’t register with him. Maybe it’s related to #2.

2. Trump really dislikes Zelensky. It’s obvious, right? I suspect that it’s because their very first encounter, on the phone in 2019, went so badly for Trump. Trump wants to demean and humiliate Zelensky. (Obviously, Trump’s litany of complaints is ridiculous)
 
3. Zelensky is not Winston Churchill. Churchill was the leader of an island nation that Hitler could never have conquered (due to the superiority of the RN). Churchill needed US help to take the fight to the continent. 
The historic analog for Volodomyr Zelensky is Nguyen Van Thieu, the leader of a nation that could not defend itself without U.S. support. Zelensky needs to understand and reflect on that. 
 
4. Europe. This war has gone on for three years. Europe has a combined GDP that is over six times that of Russia. Ukraine does not need US help if Europe steps up. After Trump was elected, late last year, Zelensky met with several Euro leaders, seeking help. You can see the results. 
Macron called an emergency Europeans-only meeting on Monday. It was a disaster. 
Trump has called for Euro troops to be stationed in Ukraine to guarantee the peace. Starmer said he would send UK troops,…if Parliament agreed. Silence from the others (except for Poland, who said they were out, that their troops needed to stay in Poland). 
5. Things are coming to a close. Trump’s best card to play is a threat of continued munitions support to Ukraine, and continued sanctions (This would also be a card Europe could play, if they had bothered to do anything serious the last three years), but that is a card he doesn’t seem to want to play. 
 
The way it looks to me: Ukraine deserves freedom from oppression. There is a chance for most of the country to get that,…if Europe will agree to send troops. (Opinion- if European nations are not willing to send troops to guarantee peace- like the U.S. did for decades in Europe and Korea- they can sit down and shut the fuck up). 
If Europe doesn’t send troops to help police a Ukrainian DMZ, then any “peace” will be temporary. (Europe really needs to consider the cost of millions of Ukrainian refugees). 
 
Final thoughts:

The only heroes are the Ukrainians. Everyone else are clowns (west) and villains (Russia and its allies)

Ukraine needs to develop a nuke program and keep it secret from the west and east. 

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Posted (edited)

Sure is a nice communications network... Sure would be a shame if anything happened to it...

https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-access-starlink-internet-services-over-minerals-say-2025-02-22/

During the meeting, Ukraine was told it faced imminent shutoff of the service if it did not reach a deal on critical minerals, said the source, who requested anonymity to discuss closed negotiations.
 
"Ukraine runs on Starlink. They consider it their North Star," said the source. "Losing Starlink ... would be a massive blow."
Zelenskiy has rejected demands from President Donald Trump's administration for $500 billion in mineral wealth from Ukraine to repay Washington for wartime aid, saying the U.S. has offered no specific security guarantees.
Edited by Captainant
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Posted
5 hours ago, Captainant said:

Sure is a nice communications network... Sure would be a shame if anything happened to it...

https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-access-starlink-internet-services-over-minerals-say-2025-02-22/

During the meeting, Ukraine was told it faced imminent shutoff of the service if it did not reach a deal on critical minerals, said the source, who requested anonymity to discuss closed negotiations.
 
"Ukraine runs on Starlink. They consider it their North Star," said the source. "Losing Starlink ... would be a massive blow."
Zelenskiy has rejected demands from President Donald Trump's administration for $500 billion in mineral wealth from Ukraine to repay Washington for wartime aid, saying the U.S. has offered no specific security guarantees.

Ukraine should agree to whatever Trump wants with regard to the minerals and then later just tell the US to fuck off and any agreement or treaty made under duress is null and void, kind of like we did with their security guarantees 

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Posted
Ukraine should agree to whatever Trump wants with regard to the minerals and then later just tell the US to fuck off and any agreement or treaty made under duress is null and void, kind of like we did with their security guarantees 

That is 100% the play. That is how you negotiate with a bad-faith opposing party, always.
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