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Posted

This is interesting but I'm guessing Rubio is either in denial or confused

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Quote

 

After meeting with Russian negotiators to discuss the future of the war in Ukraine, Secretary of State Marco Rubio signaled a dramatic reset in relations with the Kremlin, trumpeting “the incredible opportunities that exist to partner with the Russians.”

Hours later, though, Mr. Rubio sought to reassure nervous European allies that the talks did not represent an abrupt departure from American policies, as many feared.

Rather, the talks this week in Saudi Arabia’s capital, Riyadh, were meant as a first step in a process, a test of whether the Kremlin was serious about making a deal, Mr. Rubio said in a call with several European diplomats.

European officials were not sure what to make of Mr. Rubio’s measured assessment, which came as leaders on the continent struggled to make sense of the apparent renewal of the relationship between Washington and Moscow.

 
 

Mr. Rubio told the Europeans that no, the Trump administration had no plans to impose the terms of any bilateral agreement with Russia on Ukraine and Europe, according to a summary of the call prepared by European officials.

No, he said, the administration would not lift U.S. sanctions on Russia absent a noticeable change in Moscow’s behavior, though he left the door open to easing some sanctions in limited ways if the Russians began taking steps that the administration was seeking.

And yes, Mr. Rubio said, the Trump administration was cleareyed that Russia could be attempting to use the talks to sow divisions in the West or to ease its isolation on the international stage, according to the summary, which was reviewed by The New York Times.

The State Department did not respond to a request for comment on Mr. Rubio’s discussion with the Europeans.

On Wednesday, President Emmanuel Macron of France called for a second emergency meeting in Paris to hammer out a strategy amid growing fears that the United States would abandon its decades-long role in providing for European security.

 
 

After years of working to isolate the Kremlin following its February 2022 invasion of Ukraine, the White House under President Trump has appeared to flip the script.

In the 24 hours after the meeting in Riyadh wrapped up, Mr. Trump made a series of demands and false statements that appeared to embrace the worldview of Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin, while blaming Ukraine for the war.

He called President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine a dictator, and falsely declared that Kyiv somehow tricked the United States into supporting it in a war that Ukraine’s leaders started.

He also mocked Ukrainians’ complaints that their country, having sacrificed tens of thousands of lives to preserve its independence, had been left out of negotiations about its future.

“I hear that they’re upset about not having a seat,” Mr. Trump said on Tuesday, speaking to reporters at Mar-a-Lago, his estate in Florida. “Just a half-baked negotiator could have settled this years ago without, I think, without the loss of much land, very little land. Without the loss of any lives.”

 
 

At no point did Mr. Trump criticize Mr. Putin, who, in fact, started the war by invading Ukraine.

After meeting with Russian officials for more than four hours in Riyadh on Tuesday, Mr. Rubio provided few details publicly about what was achieved. He said Russia and the United States had agreed to work on a peace settlement for Ukraine, lauding Mr. Trump as “the only leader in the world” who could have pulled off such a rapprochement between longtime adversaries.

One of his partners in the American delegation, Steve Witkoff, the Middle East envoy and a longtime friend of Mr. Trump, described the meeting as “positive, upbeat, constructive.”

Mr. Rubio’s message to European officials after the meeting in Riyadh was more nuanced and conciliatory, according to the summary of the call, which included officials from Britain, France, Germany and Italy.

Part of the call was devoted to explaining why the Ukrainians and the Europeans were not included in the talks.

It was not, Mr. Rubio said, because the United States was sidelining its allies, as Mr. Trump’s remarks may have suggested. Rather, he said, much of the conversation had centered on bilateral issues between the United States and Russia. This included opening a discussion about lifting restrictions on their embassies, which have been effectively shuttered in both countries because of the many diplomats who have been expelled.

 
 

Negotiations between U.S. and Russian officials over removing these diplomatic restrictions would serve as a first test of Russia’s intentions, Mr. Rubio explained. Failure to successfully negotiate over the embassies, he said, would show that the Kremlin was not serious about negotiating an end to the Ukraine war.

Mr. Rubio told the Europeans that he was unable to say, based on that one meeting, whether the Russians were serious about making a deal. But he said they had given enough of an indication that they might be to warrant further discussions.

Mr. Rubio ended the call, according to the summary, by promising to keep America’s allies informed and by urging unity.

 

 

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Posted
On 2/19/2025 at 9:25 AM, Parliament said:

They promise to sell more oil and drive US gasoline prices down. 

This is precisely correct. You might have been joking, but Trump wants Russian oil flowing, because without it, the impending supply crisis will be on his watch. All his bullshit rhetoric about VZ being a dictator and this being Ukraine’s fault is a thinly-veiled smokescreen that his base will lap up. 

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Posted
Just now, Rex Kramer said:

This is precisely correct. You might have been joking, but Trump wants Russian oil flowing, because without it, the impending supply crisis will be on his watch. All his bullshit rhetoric about VZ being a dictator and this being Ukraine’s fault is a thinly-veiled smokescreen that his base will lap up. 

Hey man, those lifted and stanced F350s aren't gonna run cyclists off the roads on their own

Posted
10 hours ago, Chopper said:

This is interesting but I'm guessing Rubio is either in denial or confused

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I've been wondering how Rubio was going to handle all this.  He's the most "traditional Republican" of the whole administration, and his post as SoS puts him in the face of the most non-traditional Republican stance the admin has taken -- buddying up to Russia.  It'll be interesting to see if he can (1) steer policy a little less Russia friendly (2) ends up getting at odds with Trump and having to resign (3) just tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth and survive for four years.

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Posted
I've been wondering how Rubio was going to handle all this.  He's the most "traditional Republican" of the whole administration, and his post as SoS puts him in the face of the most non-traditional Republican stance the admin has taken -- buddying up to Russia.  It'll be interesting to see if he can (1) steer policy a little less Russia friendly (2) ends up getting at odds with Trump and having to resign (3) just tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth and survive for four years.

Those are all good questions.

But 2 is the guarantee.
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Posted
13 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I've been wondering how Rubio was going to handle all this.  He's the most "traditional Republican" of the whole administration, and his post as SoS puts him in the face of the most non-traditional Republican stance the admin has taken -- buddying up to Russia.  It'll be interesting to see if he can (1) steer policy a little less Russia friendly (2) ends up getting at odds with Trump and having to resign (3) just tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth and survive for four years.

I'm getting big "Judas steer" vibes from Rubio. He's being put out there to identify those who do not align with the Leaders wishes, so they can be more easily purged later.

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Posted
15 hours ago, Born to Run said:

Watching the nukes roll in from a van or a tent up in the High Sierras is looking pretty fucking appealing right now.

I'll be heading towards ground zero thank you very much.  Post apocalyptic anti-zombie life seems like a downer.

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Posted

I stopped posting on this thread, after a “shit posting” penalty (I linked a fact based WSJ editorial that made a point about Biden WH Ukraine policy that was confirmed two days later in a news report). 
 
I get it. I know what this message board is about. 
 
I realize this post may be turned in, too, which is fine. I’m going to make some assertions that I think are founded. 
 
1. Trump doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine. It’s not because he is a sociopath (although I think there is plenty of evidence of many emotional dysfunctions)- for example, he likes Israel just fine. For some screwed up reason, evidence of atrocities and crimes committed on Ukrainians doesn’t register with him. Maybe it’s related to #2.

2. Trump really dislikes Zelensky. It’s obvious, right? I suspect that it’s because their very first encounter, on the phone in 2019, went so badly for Trump. Trump wants to demean and humiliate Zelensky. (Obviously, Trump’s litany of complaints is ridiculous)
 
3. Zelensky is not Winston Churchill. Churchill was the leader of an island nation that Hitler could never have conquered (due to the superiority of the RN). Churchill needed US help to take the fight to the continent. 
The historic analog for Volodomyr Zelensky is Nguyen Van Thieu, the leader of a nation that could not defend itself without U.S. support. Zelensky needs to understand and reflect on that. 
 
4. Europe. This war has gone on for three years. Europe has a combined GDP that is over six times that of Russia. Ukraine does not need US help if Europe steps up. After Trump was elected, late last year, Zelensky met with several Euro leaders, seeking help. You can see the results. 
Macron called an emergency Europeans-only meeting on Monday. It was a disaster. 
Trump has called for Euro troops to be stationed in Ukraine to guarantee the peace. Starmer said he would send UK troops,…if Parliament agreed. Silence from the others (except for Poland, who said they were out, that their troops needed to stay in Poland). 
5. Things are coming to a close. Trump’s best card to play is a threat of continued munitions support to Ukraine, and continued sanctions (This would also be a card Europe could play, if they had bothered to do anything serious the last three years), but that is a card he doesn’t seem to want to play. 
 
The way it looks to me: Ukraine deserves freedom from oppression. There is a chance for most of the country to get that,…if Europe will agree to send troops. (Opinion- if European nations are not willing to send troops to guarantee peace- like the U.S. did for decades in Europe and Korea- they can sit down and shut the fuck up). 
If Europe doesn’t send troops to help police a Ukrainian DMZ, then any “peace” will be temporary. (Europe really needs to consider the cost of millions of Ukrainian refugees). 
 
Final thoughts:

The only heroes are the Ukrainians. Everyone else are clowns (west) and villains (Russia and its allies)

Ukraine needs to develop a nuke program and keep it secret from the west and east. 

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Posted (edited)

Sure is a nice communications network... Sure would be a shame if anything happened to it...

https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-access-starlink-internet-services-over-minerals-say-2025-02-22/

During the meeting, Ukraine was told it faced imminent shutoff of the service if it did not reach a deal on critical minerals, said the source, who requested anonymity to discuss closed negotiations.
 
"Ukraine runs on Starlink. They consider it their North Star," said the source. "Losing Starlink ... would be a massive blow."
Zelenskiy has rejected demands from President Donald Trump's administration for $500 billion in mineral wealth from Ukraine to repay Washington for wartime aid, saying the U.S. has offered no specific security guarantees.
Edited by Captainant
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Posted
Ukraine should agree to whatever Trump wants with regard to the minerals and then later just tell the US to fuck off and any agreement or treaty made under duress is null and void, kind of like we did with their security guarantees 

That is 100% the play. That is how you negotiate with a bad-faith opposing party, always.
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Posted

Ukrainians react to the "deal" for them to cede $500 billion worth of their minerals. 

“mafia imperialism”

“It’s as if we lost the war to America. This looks to me like reparations.”

“He wants to take resources from a country in a time of war. How are we supposed to live? We have children. It’s as if the US seeks to deprive us of our economic potential. It would finish us off, the same as America did with Red Indians [Native Americans].”

“I said a few bad words. The rockets were flying very low. We are tired. Our emotions are understandably strong.”

“What Trump suggests is blackmail. He knows we can’t push the Russians out on our own. We need joint production, not a takeover.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/22/its-blackmail-ukrainians-react-to-trump-demand-for-500bn-share-of-minerals

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ghost of NMAS said:

Ukraine should agree to whatever Trump wants with regard to the minerals and then later just tell the US to fuck off and any agreement or treaty made under duress is null and void, kind of like we did with their security guarantees 


Coming around to this unfortunate reality too.
 

would really prefer Ukraine just tells us to keep eating Putin’s ass and creates reasonable european partnerships and the EU uses russias frozen assets to keep Ukraine humming and to buy US weapons to keep the patriots, himars, and f16s well fed. 

Edited by B00M
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Posted

Happy someone already translated this so that I didn't have to:

I mean, we must not buy into the arguments I keep hearing everywhere. The Ukrainian president was elected through free elections in Ukraine. He was not the favorite at all; I remember it like it was yesterday.

And so, he is a president elected in a free system, which is not the case for Vladimir Putin—who kills his political opponents and has been manipulating his elections for a long time.

Unfortunately, this is also the case in other countries around the world. Later, because war broke out in his country, he had to impose martial law. Do you think he can organize presidential or legislative elections in a country where many Ukrainians have fled for their safety?

In a country where millions more have been mobilized at the front? Where there are thousands of casualties every day? And where entire regions of his territory are occupied by Russia?

**What are we talking about?!?** Do you think that, in the same situation, we would be holding elections? He cannot hold elections. So, if we want free elections in Ukraine, we need lasting peace in Ukraine. Anyone calling for elections before that is manipulating the situation. And what is the goal of some? We know it very well: a ceasefire that will not be respected. QUICK, QUICK—elections, just to manipulate them. That is not a good idea.

So yes, President Zelensky is legitimate, and we want more democracy in Ukraine over time, thanks to lasting peace.

And President Zelensky also wants democracy in Ukraine—because he himself is the product of it. If the system had been manipulated, he would never have been elected president.

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, bolverk said:

The "deal" would put the US in violation of the Budapest Memorandum (1994), which specifically prohibits economic coercion against Ukraine.

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https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 3007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

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Hey @Anastasis this is why it's extremely believable that POTUS is a Kremlin asset. He's straight up violating decades old treaties to the benefit of mother russia and detriment of her former vassal states 

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Posted

To the Bitter End if We Must; Anonymous Statement from an American Medic Serving in Ukraine’s Military

This is a statement from an American currently serving as a medic in an assault brigade in Ukraine’s military. He has requested to remain anonymous. The statement is unedited and contains his thoughts on recent actions by the USA’s government regarding support for Ukraine.

If you are serving in Ukraine and would like to make an anonymous submission, reach out to protectavolunteer@gmail.com with your Signal number or ask another volunteer with my contact information to share it with you.

*****

I love America, my country, my home, but I cannot love what it is becoming. I cannot love what the world is becoming. And I refuse to accept it. We should all refuse to accept it.

For years, democracy has been eroding in the world. With truth being buried beneath waves of propaganda, misinformation dulling outrage into apathy. Apathy is the lifeblood of fascism. Action is the only way to push it back.

I never thought my country would fall so far, so fast. Yet here I sit, dug into the earth, my phone buzzing with more bad news by the hour. America is turning its back on democracy. It is turning its back on Ukraine. I fear that soon it will embrace russian imperialism and through that be complicit in the genocide of the Ukrainian people.

My job in this war is small but simple. We retrieve the wounded and the dead from the line, doing what we can to keep them breathing until we can reach MEDEVAC. In doing this, we see the true cost of this war. I have lost count of the men and women I have carried, of the wounds they will bear for the rest of their lives, on their bodies and in their souls. But this is not about my story, only my perspective.

I have seen bravery here with my own eyes that defies belief. Ukrainians and foreign volunteers alike standing firm, fighting not just for their brothers and sisters, but for all who refuse to kneel to fascism. It is the duty of all free people to spit in the face of tyrants, and the people of Ukraine as well as the many foreign volunteers, perform this duty with a vigor that is nothing short of inspiring.

My country should be proud of them. My country should be standing beside them. Instead, I feel shame for the choices it has made and the claims made by our president. I will always be proud to be an American. But my country is failing Ukraine. It is failing itself.

The people here fight for a better tomorrow, a tomorrow that too many will never see. A tomorrow that, god willing, can exist for the people who live after us. We must fight for that reality, because the alternative is a life in chains, under someone’s boot. We must fight, and we will continue to fight, to the bitter end if we must.

Слава україні,

Героям слава,

And God bless America.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Armybrat said:

Fucking disgraceful, to say the least.

Yeah, are we turning off Russia’s Starlinks or demanding they pay us hundreds of billions of dollars?  Or even give the Ukrainians a few million?

Edited by atomheartbevo
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Posted
26 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Yeah, are we turning off Russia’s Starlinks or demanding they pay us hundreds of billions of dollars?  Or even give the Ukrainians a few million?

It’s truly pathetic because we actually ARE in position to tell Russia to get the fuck out of Ukraine or accept losing every asset in pre-14 Ukrainian borders while Ukraine focuses on attacks deep into Russia. This would cost us, what, maybe $100B? If we gave Ukraine guarantees like this, I think they’d be happy to send us a similar value in raw resources. 

We have zero leg to stand on, practically or morally, telling Ukraine to forfeit the future its fought so bravely for, in exchange for no future guarantee. 

once again, fuck Trump and this horribly predictable outcome. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Hey @Anastasis this is why it's extremely believable that POTUS is a Kremlin asset. He's straight up violating decades old treaties to the benefit of mother russia and detriment of her former vassal states 

Let me know when you have those DNS logs all figured out. 

 

But I think that you finding jesus when it comes to US deploying economic coercion wrt Ukraine hilarious. What the fuck do you think has been going on for the last decade plus there? 

Posted

I also think, based on my own newly found intense feelings toward musk, he’d better be prepared for what he’s created for himself. There are suddenly a lot of people that passionately want him out of power. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Side note: Worst decision Ukraine ever made was giving up the nukes under their territorial control. 

Ignorant. They had little say (feels familiar!) and those particular nukes would have been no use against Russia. 

Posted

Here is RFK Jr. from about a year ago. He gives a good explanation of why he thinks the war was over security not territory. Russia has always had a stipulation that Ukraine could never join NATO, he explains why.

If Ukraine is full of foreign workers, and foreign owned mining operations, rebuilding infrastructure, and are heavily invested in Ukraine, it would be very unwise for Russia to do something that would endanger, or kill, those workers. 

I'm not saying a agree with RFK Jr., it is just a different point of view that I can't really remember if it has been discussed, and I'm not going to check all 1750+ pages.

CHIEF

 

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Posted

You mean the largest country on the planet didn’t invade Ukraine PURELY for more territory? They did it for many other reasons, none of which actually justify their actions at all? Fuck RFK

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Posted
1 hour ago, B00M said:

I also think, based on my own newly found intense feelings toward musk, he’d better be prepared for what he’s created for himself. There are suddenly a lot of people that passionately want him out of power

This is true of both people who say that….and people who say that as a euphemism.

Posted
3 hours ago, CHIEF said:

Here is RFK Jr. from about a year ago. He gives a good explanation of why he thinks the war was over security not territory. Russia has always had a stipulation that Ukraine could never join NATO, he explains why.

If Ukraine is full of foreign workers, and foreign owned mining operations, rebuilding infrastructure, and are heavily invested in Ukraine, it would be very unwise for Russia to do something that would endanger, or kill, those workers. 

I'm not saying a agree with RFK Jr., it is just a different point of view that I can't really remember if it has been discussed, and I'm not going to check all 1750+ pages.

CHIEF

 

Sure, let’s thoughtfully consider what a heroin addicted science denier with a predilection for roadkill and a worm  in his brain has to say on the subject of complex foreign border issues

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Posted
Here is RFK Jr. from about a year ago. He gives a good explanation of why he thinks the war was over security not territory. Russia has always had a stipulation that Ukraine could never join NATO, he explains why.
If Ukraine is full of foreign workers, and foreign owned mining operations, rebuilding infrastructure, and are heavily invested in Ukraine, it would be very unwise for Russia to do something that would endanger, or kill, those workers. 
I'm not saying a agree with RFK Jr., it is just a different point of view that I can't really remember if it has been discussed, and I'm not going to check all 1750+ pages.
CHIEF
 

Does anyone know what Crackhead Bob has to say on the subject? How about JaRule?
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