Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[Brisketexan 105385]

57 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Why do they have such a hard on for Russia?

"I like brutal repression of ethnic minorities living inside my borders....YOU like brutal repression of ethnic minorities living inside YOUR borders (or, you know, whatever you think your expanding borders are).....we should hang out!"

That's not all of it.  But it's a fair chunk of it.

18 minutes ago, Bevo said:

There is a better article in the Economist but

 

How Israel Is Trying to Solve Its Ukraine Conundrum

Analysis by Zev Chafets | Bloomberg

April 24, 2022 at 2:12 a.m. EDT

 

When Russia invaded Ukraine, the free world began a diplomatic dance, led by the U.S., that continues today. In that dance, Israel got off on the wrong foot by initially declining to co-sponsor a United Nations Security Council resolution condemning Russian aggression.

 

Israel eventually did an about-face and supported the resolution. It was one of many signals suggesting that the government wants to edge back into the Western mainstream. It will need to proceed cautiously.

 

Russia’s assault on Ukraine has created a conundrum for Israel, which believes it must preserve its relationship with Moscow as a matter of national security. Russia controls the skies over neighboring Syria. It allows the Israeli air force to interdict Iranian efforts to supply Hezbollah, Iran’s Lebanese proxy, with precision armaments. While the U.S. would have been displeased had Israel refused to sign on as a co-sponsor, the Biden administration appreciates the position Israel is in.

 

 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has been less understanding, asking again and again for Israel to supply him with advanced weapons. The Ukrainian ambassador to Israel explained: “My president is Jewish; he expects more from Israel.”

The Israeli government chalked this up to the naivete of a young, inexperienced president. But it underestimated Zelenskiy’s savvy. He knew that Western powers were willing to give him votes of support and words of comfort, but not the military hardware he needed.   

Zelenskiy set out to dramatize and weaponize Western sympathy by casting the war as a second Holocaust. In a video address to Israeli parliamentarians in mid-March, he made his case. “The threat is the same for both us and you — the total destruction of the people, state, culture,” he said. “That is why I have the right to this parallel and to this comparison. Our history and your history. Our war for our survival and your experience in World War II.”

 

 

Zelenskiy closed his speech with a dramatic challenge to the Jewish state to aid Ukraine. “It is up to you, dear brothers and sisters, to choose the answer.  You will have to live with this answer. Ukraine made its choice 80 years ago. It rescued Jews.”  

This is untrue. In World War II, more than a million Jews were murdered in Ukraine with the agreement of the Nazi puppet government and the help of public officials and a considerable number of everyday Ukrainians. Zelenskiy must have known his audience was aware of this — every Israeli is. But he correctly calculated that the government wouldn’t issue more than a mild demurral.  

In any case, Zelenskiy’s analogy was aimed at a larger audience and a wider purpose. He wanted to make support for Ukraine into a morally compelling cause. Collaboration with the Nazis is a deep and painful wound to European self-esteem, one that reparations and Holocaust memorials haven’t healed. In the U.S., too, there is shame and regret over the refusal of President Franklin Roosevelt to take action or even let the public in on what he knew.

 

 

Zelenskiy was offering the “international community” an opportunity to redeem itself. His scenario has largely been accepted. It reached its apogee when hundreds of civilian corpses were discovered near Kyiv. Against the advice of his own State Department, President Joe Biden declared this to be genocide. With few exceptions, NATO allies accepted this judgment.  

Genocide is a loaded word. What the Russians have done in Ukraine is despicable, but it’s not mass extermination. Unlike the Turkish slaughter of a million Armenians, or the hundreds of thousands of Tutsi victims in Rwanda in 1994, the Ukrainians aren’t isolated, ignored or defenseless. They may even win the war. I hope they do.  

The government of Israel knows that this isn’t genocide, a belief that probably modulates its response to the war. But Israel also doesn’t want to get too far away from its American patron. It has shown its goodwill by sending tons of humanitarian aid, building a field hospital and taking in thousands of Ukrainian refugees. This week it announced that it’s sending helmets and flak jackets “for the use of civilian rescue workers.”

 

 

After Biden’s genocide declaration, the Israeli foreign minister joined the international chorus of outrage. “Intentionally harming a civilian population is a war crime and I strongly condemn it,” he said. And Israel joined the other Western democracies at the UN General Assembly in suspending Russian membership in the UN Human Rights Council.   

Russia was furious. The Israeli ambassador to Moscow was summoned and given a tongue lashing in language not heard by an Israeli diplomat since the fall of the Soviet Union. To emphasize his displeasure, Russian President Vladimir Putin had a friendly and much publicized chat with Palestinian President Mohammed Abbas. This was a warning. Another step in the wrong direction and Israel would be on its own to stop Iranian aggression in Syria.

It’s a genuine threat. But getting crosswise with the U.S. would be even more reckless. For Israel, the sensible choice right now is to keep dancing, try to stay off the toes of its rival partners and pray for the music to end. 

Fuck that shit.  A metric crapton of what Russia is doing in Ukraine falls in the BULLSEYE of the established definition of genocide.  Wanna know when, how, and why that definition was crafted?  After WWII.  By the allies.  In DIRECT FUCKING RESPONSE TO THE MOTHERFUCKING HOLOCAUST.

Israel is making it rather clear that they think "genocide" is something that only happens to jews, or at other remote eras in time that they can refer to without inconveniencing themselves (congrats on calling out shit from Armenia and Rwanda, which are both long-passed and don't require any action by Israel at all).

"Conservative" Israel is a piece of dick.

[956 Worldwide 34788]

@Bevo, a lot of analysis is correct. The prescription is wrong. A catastrophic defeat for Russia in Ukraine will lead to the end of Russia’s presence in Syria and Israel can do whatever the fuck they want there. And win actual gratitude and admiration from the U.S. and Western world and use that for more rope and support against Iran. Getting rid of Russia in the Near East would be great for them, it’s time for them to dream bigger. 

[Brisketexan 105385]

16 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

@Bevo, a lot of analysis is correct. The prescription is wrong. A catastrophic defeat for Russia in Ukraine will lead to the end of Russia’s presence in Syria and Israel can do whatever the fuck they want there. And win actual gratitude and admiration from the U.S. and Western world and use that for more rope and support against Iran. Getting rid of Russia in the Near East would be great for them, it’s time for them to dream bigger. 

Israel's current big dream is to make the world safe for and friendly to repressive regimes that crush minorities within their borders, preferably under the leadership of some sort of corrupt autocracy.  Netanyahu out front shoulda told you.

Every other Israeli "interest" is second to that.  Give Israel a green light to solve the Palestinian "problem" - you know, with some sort of, umm, final solution - and they're good with whatever else happens in the world.

[blacklab 11953]

lets not turn this into a debate about countries in the middle east

[Brisketexan 105385]

8 minutes ago, blacklab said:

lets not turn this into a debate about countries in the middle east

Fair -- my point and purpose was to tie that interest back to Israel's friendliness to Russia in the present circumstances.  Israel's decisions and actions re Russia are heavily driven by the motive above.  Because Russia's position on the issue that matters most to Israel will not change.  Count Israel out as a meaningful ally in the Ukraine war.  

[KYHorn 17195]

 

 

 

[KYHorn 17195]

3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s pretty much time for us to start taking a much more evenhanded approach to Israel.  They’re such a disappointment on this issue and getting worse. 
 

 

Worth considering this analysis as well:

 

 

 

 

[Bevo 13601]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

@Bevo, a lot of analysis is correct. The prescription is wrong. A catastrophic defeat for Russia in Ukraine will lead to the end of Russia’s presence in Syria and Israel can do whatever the fuck they want there. And win actual gratitude and admiration from the U.S. and Western world and use that for more rope and support against Iran. Getting rid of Russia in the Near East would be great for them, it’s time for them to dream bigger. 

Israel is giving to Ukraine but is trying to walk a fine line. They would be happy with Russia's defeat and will act accordingly when it happens. First order will be to stop Iran from supplying its enemies near its borders.

[atomheartbevo 89810]

Holy fucking shit, all of y'all have to watch this, it's fucking insane.

 

[atomheartbevo 89810]

YouTube if twitter causes problems.

 

[Gatorubet 30321]

10 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

Russia is enlarging!   The number of live soldiers is shrinking, however.

[atomheartbevo 89810]

5 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

The number of live soldiers is shrinking, however

They are claiming only 63 died in the big HIMARS attack with the ammo depot.

https://apnews.com/article/kyiv-russia-ukraine-war-vitali-klitschko-86fd573ab5703957663fd40a5ec8d2a6

Quote

Ukrainian forces fired rockets at a facility in the eastern Donetsk region where Russian soldiers were stationed, killing 63 of them, Russia’s defense ministry said Monday, in one of the deadliest attacks on the Kremlin’s forces since the war began more than 10 months ago.

Ukrainian forces fired six rockets from a HIMARS launch system and two of them were shot down, a defense ministry statement said. It did not say when the strike happened.

Quote

Expressing anger at the losses, Daniil Bezsonov, an official with the Russian-appointed administration in Russian-occupied Donetsk, called for the punishment of military officers who ordered a large number of troops to be stationed at the facility.

Nice infighting.

Quote

In a claim that could not be independently verified, the Strategic Communications Directorate of Ukraine’s Armed Forces had maintained Sunday that some 400 mobilized Russian soldiers were killed in a vocational school building in Makiivka and about 300 more were wounded. The Russian statement said the strike occurred “in the area of Makiivka” and didn’t mention the vocational school.

 

[Gatorubet 30321]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

They are claiming only 63 died in the big HIMARS attack with the ammo depot.

 

The Russian war forum I linked earlier had somebody who stated that the death toll was only 63 because the building was completely obliterated, and they had only found 63 bodies yet.  As the excavations continued, they would find many many more. That sounds exactly right.

[Johnny Chimpo 479]

As someone who has worked in a former ussr country for the last five years, that logic sounds exactly right. 

36 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

The Russian war forum I linked earlier had somebody who stated that the death toll was only 63 because the building was completely obliterated, and they had only found 63 bodies yet.  As the excavations continued, they would find many many more. That sounds exactly right.

 

[MillerEP 30501]

 

[MillerEP 30501]

 

[MillerEP 30501]

 

[MillerEP 30501]

 

[Gatorubet 30321]

Using my iphone translate feature I read a ton of posts.   The pro-war ‘things are fine’ bunch are being continually down-voted.   Posts like this get many ‘likes’

Quote

Well, actually, the other day Reznikov talked about a new wave of mobilization in Russia for a reason.

That's the picture.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine kill many of our mobilized with one blow - another wave of mobilization is announced in Russia - potential conscripts run away at an even greater rate than in September.

And they can be understood.

No one wants to die for what, and even because of the stupidity of the command. Which no one thinks not only what to change, but even punish for mistakes.

It’s interesting to me to see so many posts by people who look to be genuine, Russian patriots/supporters ripping and insulting the political and military leadership. This is such a small sample it may mean nothing - or it may be a small window into how things are perceived in the minds of the common people.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Gatorubet

[atomheartbevo 89810]

15 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

It’s interesting to me to see so many posts by people who look to be genuine, Russian patriots/supporters ripping and insulting the political and military leadership. This is such a small sample it may mean nothing - or it may be a small window into how things are perceived in the minds of the common people.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's an indicator of something larger - they really don't know what they are dying for, since the message has changed a few times (and now appears to be about making Russia larger/bringing back the USSR).  The Russian state media TV shows are pumping up the olds and rurals, but a shitload of the younger crowd are not watching that crap, and when they do, they probably see bullshit like what Julia Davis was highlighting, which has to really piss them off, since they are being criticized by a bunch of rich Russian talking heads who are close to Putin (or were).  

Hell, Vladimir Solovyov bitching about being sanctioned or cut off from his Italian villa or Margarita Simonyan bragging about her rich husband has to send some of those people into a fucking rage, if they were even watching it.

The real problem is that Putin and the Russian leadership promised a quick "clean up the Nazis" campaign, to be welcomed with open arms by the Ukrainians, and with no mobilization, and here we are entering the 11th month of the war with another major round of mobilization happening.

Oh, and those messages on Russian social media are getting posted and not being immediately taken down, whereas in the past the Debbie Downer posts would be deleted.  Kind of like with TexAgs where you can't say or criticize certain things until some kind of critical mass is reached. 

When the next major round of mobilization (it's still happening quietly) kicks in later this week or early next week, it'll be interesting to see if Russia lets military-aged men bail for other countries.

[atomheartbevo 89810]

And holy shit, Ukraine has taken out some huge ammo dumps over the past 2-3 days.  Sounds like the winter offensive is about to kick off.

[Gatorubet 30321]

12 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Hell, Vladimir Solovyov bitching about being sanctioned or cut off from his Italian villa or Margarita Simonyan bragging about her rich husband has to send some of those people into a fucking rage, if they were even watching it.

Despite the obvious favoritism and hypocrisy of a class-free USSR in WWII, I really do think the vast majority of the country who used to be serfs thought they were fighting for Mother Russia and a Nazi free future.   Everyone in 2023 Russia knows that all the money from corruption and insider dealing and organized crime goes to Putin and a few Oligarchs who fuck everyone else.

I’m not so sure that you can tell them to clear the minefields by running through them anymore. We’ll see I guess, but you make a great observation. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Gatorubet

[AUS-97HORN 11824]

2 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Despite the obvious favoritism and hypocrisy of a class-free USSR in WWII, I really do think the vast majority of the country who used to be serfs thought they were fighting for Mother Russia and a Nazi free future.  

well, that, and an entire company of KBG goons sitting behind them with machine guns shooting anyone who didnt continue to go forward no matter what. 

if you are damned if you dont and damned if you do, you tend to go the route of fuck it, lets charge those nazi fucks and some of us will live.... vs not attacking and everyone dies. 

[956 Worldwide 34788]

5 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Holy fucking shit, all of y'all have to watch this, it's fucking insane.

 

First time watching Russian New Year tv? The song and toast are insane but the faces and reaction the same as every year. 

[Superhero 8845]

4 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

well, that, and an entire company of KBG goons sitting behind them with machine guns shooting anyone who didnt continue to go forward no matter what. 

if you are damned if you dont and damned if you do, you tend to go the route of fuck it, lets charge those nazi fucks and some of us will live.... vs not attacking and everyone dies. 

Maybe I’m espousing a little bit of internet bravado here, but what’s stopping some units to turn their guns on their own command structure?

[Bevo 13601]

5 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

And holy shit, Ukraine has taken out some huge ammo dumps over the past 2-3 days.  Sounds like the winter offensive is about to kick off.

I think this is correct. Russia seems to be kind of weak at the moment. A Crimea offensive would be devastating to Russia and make us all smile.

As an aside, earlier body counts had Russia and Ukraine losing equal amounts of troops. I wonder if that is due to how the war started or if we just don't hear much about Russian successes. From what I see here, it sure seems like Russia is losing many more troops than Ukraine.

[KYHorn 17195]

11 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

They are claiming only 63 died in the big HIMARS attack with the ammo depot.

https://apnews.com/article/kyiv-russia-ukraine-war-vitali-klitschko-86fd573ab5703957663fd40a5ec8d2a6

Nice infighting.

 

 

11 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

The Russian war forum I linked earlier had somebody who stated that the death toll was only 63 because the building was completely obliterated, and they had only found 63 bodies yet.  As the excavations continued, they would find many many more. That sounds exactly right.

It's clearly far more than 63, yet I've repeatedly seen American sources headline with the 63 number and maybe mention the 400 estimate in the body of the article. They do this constantly. Why give so much credence and such a platform to the Russian talking points? 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

 

[Nivek 16987]

well, that, and an entire company of KBG goons sitting behind them with machine guns shooting anyone who didnt continue to go forward no matter what. 
if you are damned if you dont and damned if you do, you tend to go the route of fuck it, lets charge those nazi fucks and some of us will live.... vs not attacking and everyone dies. 

Or turning around and taking aim.

[Laxtonto 12121]

5 hours ago, Bevo said:

I think this is correct. Russia seems to be kind of weak at the moment. A Crimea offensive would be devastating to Russia and make us all smile.

As an aside, earlier body counts had Russia and Ukraine losing equal amounts of troops. I wonder if that is due to how the war started or if we just don't hear much about Russian successes. From what I see here, it sure seems like Russia is losing many more troops than Ukraine.

We all know that the winter offensive is coming, but where is the question. While there are multiple points that could see a major breakthrough, right now there is no real indication that there is a specific salient that we should be focusing on yet.

We are seeing a slow grind on most of fronts in the east, with the most tangible developments happening around Salvatore. Outside of a thrust towards Melitopol, that is the most likely place to see a major offensive.

If we move west, with Kherson already being held, we are now stuck with the idea of static defenses and/or major natural barriers that must be breached or bypassed to see any new developments.
 

The problem with this is how does this even work without some form of amphibious assault at an extremely large scale. Worse, the geography of the Crimea makes any form of amphibious assault in the west that much more dangerous because the distance needed to travel  by sea to reach any point that would have sufficient strategic value is fairly significant. Geography keeps Kherson from being a legit location to start from with essentially the best potential staging point being Odessa with a target around Zaliznyi Port (200 km or so).  That is essentially infeasible to think that type of amphibious invasion at a scale not really seen since WW2 is remotely possible. Best case would be a large push across the river around Kherson, but the geography makes it extremely difficult with any attack going straight into the teeth of static defensive lines.

So now what? Unlike the previous breakthrough, there are very few places that make any sense for the Ukraine to mount an offensive. All signs point to 2 spots and unless they get real creative this is going to be a fairly predictable set of offensives that are going to be much more of a grind than anything else we have seen so far.

[atomheartbevo 89810]

1 hour ago, Laxtonto said:

The problem with this is how does this even work without some form of amphibious assault at an extremely large scale. Worse, the geography of the Crimea makes any form of amphibious assault in the west that much more dangerous because the distance needed to travel  by sea to reach any point that would have sufficient strategic value is fairly significant. Geography keeps Kherson from being a legit location to start from with essentially the best potential staging point being Odessa with a target around Zaliznyi Port (200 km or so).  That is essentially infeasible to think that type of amphibious invasion at a scale not really seen since WW2 is remotely possible. Best case would be a large push across the river around Kherson, but the geography makes it extremely difficult with any attack going straight into the teeth of static defensive lines.

The flip side to that is Crimea could be easy to isolate geographically, given the Kerch bridge problems and that the overland roads/rails that also feed supplies/men into Crimea are getting to be within HIMARS/artillery range - if they get an actual large chunk pushed in towards Mariupol, they cut the overland supplies to Crimea, leaving just the one bridge.  And if they push on from Kherson, in theory they could push out an air defense bubble of sorts that would shut down any Russian aircraft from flying close air support for Crimea.

I think they will probably just consolidate on Donetsk and Mariupol.  If they could drive a wedge to the Russian border in that area, well the PR and morale hit on losing Donetsk and Mariupol would be huge for Russia, but more importantly Russian forces would be cut off from each other, and Russian logistics chains would be split and pushed back into Russia proper and face a massive challenge of trying to keep multiple fronts supplied.  And there would be no easy way for Russian forces in the east and the south/Crimea to reinforce each other.

 

[Viper 12112]

12 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Despite the obvious favoritism and hypocrisy of a class-free USSR in WWII, I really do think the vast majority of the country who used to be serfs thought they were fighting for Mother Russia and a Nazi free future.   Everyone in 2023 Russia knows that all the money from corruption and insider dealing and organized crime goes to Putin and a few Oligarchs who fuck everyone else.

I’m not so sure that you can tell them to clear the minefields by running through them anymore. We’ll see I guess, but you make a great observation. 

Serfdom was abolished in 1861... 

[Schulz2.0 29012]

 

[Schulz2.0 29012]

The whole thread is pretty interesting.

[Schulz2.0 29012]

 

[atomheartbevo 89810]

 

[Laxtonto 12121]

32 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

The flip side to that is Crimea could be easy to isolate geographically, given the Kerch bridge problems and that the overland roads/rails that also feed supplies/men into Crimea are getting to be within HIMARS/artillery range - if they get an actual large chunk pushed in towards Mariupol, they cut the overland supplies to Crimea, leaving just the one bridge.  And if they push on from Kherson, in theory they could push out an air defense bubble of sorts that would shut down any Russian aircraft from flying close air support for Crimea.

I think they will probably just consolidate on Donetsk and Mariupol.  If they could drive a wedge to the Russian border in that area, well the PR and morale hit on losing Donetsk and Mariupol would be huge for Russia, but more importantly Russian forces would be cut off from each other, and Russian logistics chains would be split and pushed back into Russia proper and face a massive challenge of trying to keep multiple fronts supplied.  And there would be no easy way for Russian forces in the east and the south/Crimea to reinforce each other.

 

The biggest issue with the Donetsk/Mariupol corridor is that it is the teeth of the old Cold War/Ukrainian war fortifications that have been hardened for decades. It is one of the reasons why that front has not really budged in a long time. 
 

The ability to isolate Crimea makes it extremely noteworthy as a general strategy, but the devil is in the details on this one. Everyone can see that the main rail artery that connects Rostov to Crimea can be severed and by doing so you can most likely then collapse the front around Kherson by the spring. How to get to that strategic objective is a major problem.

The line of old hardened emplacements that stretch from Kherson to Donetsk makes picking where to to focus troops for an offensive a tricky topic. If you mass over Mariupol, then your offensive is at a location that is an all or nothing type scenario. If you can break into Mariupol then you both sever the rail line and take out a major population center that is the heart the symbolic Ukrainian breakaway oblasts. The problem is that you are committing to an offensive that is going to be a meat grinder for both sides and can be easily reinforced by the RU from both directions.

If they instead mass to breach near Salvatore or Melitopol then you are away from the major concentrations of the RU forces that can bled for reinforcements. It lacks the political umpf as a statement for how the annexation of the population is failing, but would still allow the same strategic objectives.

My gut says that they will try both Salvatore and Melitopol and stay out of the massive meat grinder, but I can see the value of going for the jugular. 

[Schulz2.0 29012]

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Schulz2.0

[atomheartbevo 89810]

7 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

The ability to isolate Crimea makes it extremely noteworthy as a general strategy, but the devil is in the details on this one. Everyone can see that the main rail artery that connects Rostov to Crimea can be severed and by doing so you can most likely then collapse the front around Kherson by the spring. How to get to that strategic objective is a major problem.

There's a map floating around showing that they don't even have to go too far into that area to put the supply routes under HIMARS and even M777.

The attack on the ammo dumps is extremely interesting.

Also, if that one was hit just after midnight, wouldn't that mean the HIMARS were launched in 2022 and landed in 2023?

Edited January 3, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[Gatorubet 30321]

Serfdom was abolished in 1861... 

Sloppy writing.  Yeah, serfdom was officially abolished in 1861 for private land. I did not mean WWII soldiers have been serfs.   Post-serfdom   largely resulted into a form that was akin to the worst of our post-slavery sharecropper system. Agricultural serfs had the right to work on their former owners lands as a form of payment for the land the serf now worked.   Naturally, the good land stayed with the owner and the serf got to work less fertile land, but only after his duty to work the owners land was met.  House serfs had no right to land at all unless they found a way to pay for it. Their option was to negotiate wages with the former employer, which did not work out so well. And in some circumstances serfs got land, owned by the community of serfs, and they were prohibited from selling their portion of the land and moving to the city to work in factories.  
The point I was trying to make is that most Russians still had the serf mindset, where they, their parents and their grandparents ate shit on a regular basis and had very little power. First they were serfs then they were the worst form of sharecroppers, and then when some of them were able to receive the benefits of capitalism the bolsheviks took over, and private land became a state land again.  
in Russia, there is a famous saying about the history of the Russian people “…and then it got worse”

[Fico 1791]

Regarding any winter offensives, the weather has not been cooperating. While it's been very helpful for European gas/electric supplies, not so much on harding up the ground. Not sure what's in store for the next couple of months but the latest weather reports I've seen show Europe continuing to be warmer than usual.

[Superhero 8845]

52 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

There's a map floating around showing that they don't even have to go too far into that area to put the supply routes under HIMARS and even M777.

The attack on the ammo dumps is extremely interesting.

Also, if that one was hit just after midnight, wouldn't that mean the HIMARS were launched in 2022 and landed in 2023?

Happy New Year you sonsabitches. 

[KYHorn 17195]

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by KYHorn

[KYHorn 17195]

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: report on the DNA/body count situation:

Edited January 3, 2023 by KYHorn

[Gatorubet 30321]

Quote

As previously reported, many of the casualties will need to be identified from DNA records. One survivor says he and his colleagues have been "cleaning brains off our boots".

I am really curious about the next round of forced mobilization. This event seems to be pretty well known on the Russian side and you wonder how many people want to be drafted into the meat grinder to fight for TV host’s Italian villas.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Any time we find ourselves (I'm looking at you @atomheartbevo) thinking something along the lines of 'the Russian population isn't going to accept this!' I think we should remind ourselves we're looking at it from a distinctly 'Not Russian' POV.

Their history is one of misery. It's all they know. This war is just another manifestation of shit.

I'm reading Gulag by Anne Appelbaum right now and there's a passage where she mentions the word Gulag prisoners use to describe Russia (meaning, all of Russia outside of the Gulags). Its translation was 'bigger prison'.

Russia has millions of people that live in complete misery and poverty with zero hope of life being anything other than complete shit. Being thrown into a meat grinder really doesn't fucking matter to them. Maybe they'd rather be alive (maybe?), but dying at least means some money for their families.  

[atomheartbevo 89810]

9 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Any time we find ourselves (I'm looking at you @atomheartbevo) thinking something along the lines of 'the Russian population isn't going to accept this!' I think we should remind ourselves we're looking at it from a distinctly 'Not Russian' POV.

Their history is one of misery. It's all they know. This war is just another manifestation of shit.

A shitload of them bailed on the last conscription though and went to other countries.  That was something different. Of course that meant the conscription drew even more heavily from the very people you are talking about, and another major round is going to hit that group harder - I’m guessing they will conscript heavily from the 40-45 and up crowd.  

And the fact that their families are having to crowdsource uniforms and equipment is both a sign of how bad things are for the Russian government, but also another manifestation of what you are talking about.  

 

 

[KYHorn 17195]

 

 

 

[KYHorn 17195]

There are so many fires in Russia that their go-to move is stop, drop, and roll. 

 

 

[Gatorubet 30321]

 Of course that meant the conscription drew even more heavily from the very people you are talking about, and another major round is going to hit that group harder - I’m guessing they will conscript heavily from the 40-45 and up crowd.  

Russian men live six years less than the average American. They are universally heavy smokers and chronic alcoholics.  7 of 10 men in mobilization age smoke.   The number one cause of death is stroke.  
Good luck with middle-aged Ivan carrying his rusty weapon and heavy backpack in winter. I’m sure smoking and alcohol withdrawal will go over well in the frozen trenches.