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By Eastwood
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SL Xpress

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12 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

That’s the joke gif

The Ukraine-Russia schism has broadened to include things like the celebration of Christmas. As the Russian Orthodox Church has been a shill for Putin, Ukrainians have chosen to adopt the western calendar as a further means of expressing their non-Russianness.     I was suggesting a snarky Zelenskyy response.

I figured that was the case. It was more of a just in case post. Also if anyone else came across the thread and was wondering. 

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AUS-97HORN
AUS-97HORN

For the love of Christ woman,  stop posting the same fucking thing every 20 mins just to make your neurotic self feel better.     Bring something useful to the thread other than your inane babbli

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InkaUtexas
InkaUtexas

I volunteered today. Log/Admin role to replace people for 30-60 days. The operation is in the west, or should the Orcs win will be pulled back behind the NATO wall. Either way the humanitarian effort

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KYHorn

KYHorn 16862

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Fortune going after Germany for its reluctance to provide Leopards. Apparently France's announced donation is being called a tank, which could help pave the way for the Leopard or other Western tanks.

Beaking ranks, Macron’s gift of tanks to Ukraine puts Western alliance under pressure to give Zelensky what he needs to end the war

https://fortune.com/2023/01/05/france-ukraine-amx-10-rc-tanks-macron-zelenskyy-scholz-leopard/

Spoiler
Beaking ranks, Macron’s gift of tanks to Ukraine puts Western alliance under pressure to give Zelensky what he needs to end the war
January 5, 2023 at 12:09 PM EST
GettyImages-164119622.jpg?w=1440&q=75
The six-wheeled French AMX-10 RC light tank, pictured here in a military exercise with German armored forces, will soon be in the service of Ukraine after French President Emmanuel Macron reached a deal with Volodymyr Zelensky.
JOERN HAUFE—GETTY IMAGES
 
 
 
 

Christmas may have come early for Volodymyr Zelensky this year. 

On Wednesday, French President Emmanuel Macron granted his Ukrainian counterpart’s wish with the promise of modern AMX-10 RC wheeled tanks to drive Russian invaders off his soil.

Macron, Europe’s de facto leader, broke ranks with his Western allies and in doing so has piled pressure on his closest strategic partner, Germany.

Chancellor Olaf Scholz has been busy swatting away repeated calls to deliver German-built Leopard 2 battle tanks to Kyiv to help bring a swifter end to the war.

“This is the first time the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been provided with Western-made tanks.” France’s Elysee Palace said on Wednesday.

What is the AMX-10 RC?

Built by France’s Giat and in service since 1981, the AMX-10 RC is equipped with a 105-mm bore main turret gun. Since it sits upon wheels rather than traditional tracks like heavier tanks, its mobility makes it better suited for reconnaissance missions, but it can provide effective fire support on the battlefield.  

According to Reuters, French officials did not give any details about the volume or timing of the planned shipments, but added talks would continue regarding the potential delivery of other vehicle types.

Ukraine, which traditionally celebrates Christmas on Jan. 7, along with the rest of the Eastern Orthodox church, has been clamoring for months to get its hands on the West’s latest battle tanks to counter the armored superiority of Russia’s T-72 columns. 

With the war swiftly approaching its first anniversary on Feb. 24 and no end in sight, France’s gift of AMX-10 RC combat tanks reopens the debate in Europe over the Leopard.

If this prompts Berlin to follow with its own, or even simply green-light others’ doing so, it could be the most meaningful development in the war since Ukraine retook in November the city of Kherson, the sole regional capital to fall into Russian hands.

Praise for Macron

“Strong leadership by Emmanuel Macron,” praised Guy Verhofstadt, Belgium’s former veteran prime minister currently serving in the European Parliament, on Wednesday. “Now there is nowhere for the German government to hide.”

Russia’s Soviet-designed T-72s would be little match for the much more modern, third-generation tanks built by Germany’s Krauss-Maffei Wegmann. Export laws grant Berlin a veto, however, anytime a Western ally such as Lithuania wants to donate one from its own armory.

“The best type of weapons that can be supplied now are Western top battle tanks, such as the German Leopard or the American Abrams,” said Lithuanian foreign minister Gabrielius Landsbergis last month. 

Last year, the CEO of manufacturer Rheinmetall even offered to refurbish from its own reserves 80 Leopards, hailed by leading Swiss daily Neue Zürcher Zeitung on Thursday as “the tank that can shorten the war.”

Germany’s dithering chancellor has dug himself in, claiming no other Western ally is willing to send modern Western battle tanks.

Yet suffering from poor polling and an image of an indecisive leader afraid of his own shadow, Scholz now has to bail out defense minister Christine Lambrecht over an embarrassing New Year’s faux pas. 

Between the political capital he now needs to spend to ward off demands for her resignation and the unfortunate position Macron put him in through his brash and seemingly uncoordinated expansion of military aid, Scholz may need to go on the attack himself.

In that case, the German chancellor could have his own Christmas gift of tanks for Ukraine’s forces.

More far-fetched things have been known to happen, and it wouldn’t be the first time he’s caved to pressure: In April he flip-flopped and approved the delivery of 50 Gepard armored anti-aircraft vehicles.

 

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jdhorn92

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Posted
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2 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

That’s the joke gif

The Ukraine-Russia schism has broadened to include things like the celebration of Christmas. As the Russian Orthodox Church has been a shill for Putin, Ukrainians have chosen to adopt the western calendar as a further means of expressing their non-Russianness.     I was suggesting a snarky Zelenskyy response.

There is a good except in Patton's book about Stahlin and Christmas.  The Russians as we know have had a long history on again off again Christmas celebrations.  Fo many year is was banned.    In the chapter the author talks about Stahlin's daughter visiting the Brittish embassy during Christmas. She comes back all giddy and happy about the Holiday.  At that time the Russians were forced to celebrate the birth of Jesus in a clandestine manner. Stahlin was pissed about how happy his daughter was acting. Long and short of it, Stahlin essentially invents a Russian version of Christmas sans the story of Jesus.   Later in the book we find out the daughter falls in love with a Russian soldier; Stahlin being the sadist he was, has the fella shipped to the front and certain death.  Yep you guessed it, he as of Ukranian decent.  Patton was 100% correct about the Russians.

Edited by jdhorn92
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956 Worldwide

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We are officially giving Bradley IFVs and Germany is handing over Marders. One step closer to Western tanks. 
 
But this slow and steady shit needs to stop. We have crossed every single red line Russia set. The truth is, the red line is NATO boots in Ukraine and maybe not even there. Maybe only NATO troops in Russia.  Biden needs to announce “Ukraine will get any equipment that we think will help it restore its territory and we understand that the Russian Federation can tell the difference between Ukraine’s fight for independence and an attack on Russia.”  
 

Its time for us to set the boundaries of rationality and stop ceding that to Russia.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, jdhorn92 said:

There is a good except in Patton's book about Stahlin and Christmas.  The Russians as we know have had a long history on again off again Christmas celebrations.  Fo many year is was banned.    In the chapter the author talks about Stahlin's daughter visiting the Brittish embassy during Christmas. She comes back all giddy and happy about the Holiday.  At that time the Russians were forced to celebrate the birth of Jesus in a clandestine manner. Stahlin was pissed about how happy his daughter was acting. Long and short of it, Stahlin essentially invents a Russian version of Christmas sans the story of Jesus.   Later in the book we find out the daughter falls in love with a Russian soldier; Stahlin being the sadist he was, has the fella shipped to the front and certain death.  Yep you guessed it, he as of Ukranian decent.  Patton was 100% correct about the Russians.

The Bolsheviks abolished Christmas shortly after the revolution and Stalin’s USSR created a push to observe New Year, complete with an ersatz Santa (Father Frost). New Year remains the most popular holiday in all the post-Soviet states save perhaps the Baltics. But Easter was always the bigger holiday among all Orthodox. 
 

The Christmas date will get complicated. The Greek Church and some others mark December 25 as Christmas, the independent Ukrainian Orthodox will follow suit most likely.  Easter will still be marked with the rest of the East, there’s no getting out of that one. 

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AUS-97HORN

AUS-97HORN 11674

Posted
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7 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

There is a good except in Patton's book about Stahlin and Christmas.  The Russians as we know have had a long history on again off again Christmas celebrations.  Fo many year is was banned.    In the chapter the author talks about Stahlin's daughter visiting the Brittish embassy during Christmas. She comes back all giddy and happy about the Holiday.  At that time the Russians were forced to celebrate the birth of Jesus in a clandestine manner. Stahlin was pissed about how happy his daughter was acting. Long and short of it, Stahlin essentially invents a Russian version of Christmas sans the story of Jesus.   Later in the book we find out the daughter falls in love with a Russian soldier; Stahlin being the sadist he was, has the fella shipped to the front and certain death.  Yep you guessed it, he as of Ukranian decent.  Patton was 100% correct about the Russians.

 

I mean come on man... 

thats like spelling it Hitlher

He literally is numero uno on the list of most number of people killed under his direct orders in the entire history of the fucking world.  even the Russians spell it Stalin

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Gatorubet

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11 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

 

I mean come on man... 

thats like spelling it Hitlher

He literally is numero uno on the list of most number of people killed under his direct orders in the entire history of the fucking world.  even the Russians spell it Stalin

Genghis Khan killed more than Stalin and Hitler combined. And this is back when they were a hell of a lot less people on the earth.

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SL Xpress

SL Xpress 7505

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16 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Genghis Khan killed more than Stalin and Hitler combined. And this is back when they were a hell of a lot less people on the earth.

Yeah, but if we're counting how many children he fathered, it's not as big of a net loss. Also, we shouldn't be leaving out Mao. 

Percentage wise I think Cane should get some kudos, too. 25% of the world's population is pretty impressive.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89416

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2 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Genghis Khan killed more than Stalin and Hitler combined. And this is back when they were a hell of a lot less people on the earth.

1 hour ago, SL Xpress said:

Yeah, but if we're counting how many children he fathered, it's not as big of a net loss. Also, we shouldn't be leaving out Mao. 

Percentage wise I think Cane should get some kudos, too. 25% of the world's population is pretty impressive.

Thomas Midgley Jr. thinks he should be in that club.

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Gatorubet

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3 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Yeah, but if we're counting how many children he fathered, it's not as big of a net loss. 

I don’t know dog, I don’t think you can count millions of people 50 generations later to cancel real time deaths.   Let’s say that Genghis Khan knocked up 1000 women 800 years ago.   That’s the number you need to use to offset the tens of million he killed, not the tens of millions of descendants. 

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jdhorn92

jdhorn92 1538

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10 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

 

I mean come on man... 

thats like spelling it Hitlher

He literally is numero uno on the list of most number of people killed under his direct orders in the entire history of the fucking world.  even the Russians spell it Stalin

I bet you're fun at parties.  Spelling is your thing, b/c it sure isn't grammar. I mean come on man, if you're going to throw shade, get your own house in order. Fair enough?

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Nivek

Nivek 16857

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5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Lol, max cope from an Indian “National Security Editor” trying to convince himself that his nation hasn’t wasted billions of dollars buying shit Russian tech that is getting blasted by the West’s mothballed kit. 
 

Also, it’s footage from a video game. 
 

 

Russian military tech is about as legit as their Olympic performance.  They rig the tests and cheat their asses off to achieve the feats.   IIRC, Russia announced some spectacular specs from some jets in the 60s that were not possible from their production jets.     

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Gatorubet

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5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Lol, max cope from an Indian “National Security Editor” trying to convince himself that his nation hasn’t wasted billions of dollars buying shit Russian tech that is getting blasted by the West’s mothballed kit. 
Also, it’s footage from a video game. 

Occam’s razor.   Russia gave him $$$ to say that in a vain attempt to regain cred on their shitty stuff.  They are running out of buyers so it makes sense that they are focusing on the former client morons who still might buy again. 

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The Dog

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5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Lol, max cope from an Indian “National Security Editor” trying to convince himself that his nation hasn’t wasted billions of dollars buying shit Russian tech that is getting blasted by the West’s mothballed kit. 
 

Also, it’s footage from a video game. 
 

 

Kinzinger called him out on it:

 

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Parliament

Parliament 14133

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Lol, max cope from an Indian “National Security Editor” trying to convince himself that his nation hasn’t wasted billions of dollars buying shit Russian tech that is getting blasted by the West’s mothballed kit. 
 

Also, it’s footage from a video game. 
 

 

Oh cool!  You can do acrobatic stuff at very slow speeds.  How cute.  Now do that after our kickass American SAM's, AMRAM's, etc have your non-stealth shitbox lit up like a goddamn oil derrick. 

ETA

Old Soviet shit can still be relevant in the 21st century.  Take Ukraine for example.  They're using it to kill tens of thousands of Russians.

Edited by Parliament
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104596

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38 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Occam’s razor.   Russia gave him $$$ to say that in a vain attempt to regain cred on their shitty stuff.  They are running out of buyers so it makes sense that they are focusing on the former client morons who still might buy again. 

The only message that matters to potential buyers of Russian military gear: "cool, cool.  You're right, it performs great the first time you take to the air/in the field.  But, ummm....once you're in a fight....where ya gonna get your spare parts?  They can't even supply their OWN military with enough gear....you think they'll Fedex you fresh artillery barrels when you're in a fight for your life?"

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SL Xpress

SL Xpress 7505

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6 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

 

 

“We’re here just as cannon fodder, that's all... The main thing is that we are ‘in Belgorod’,” a Russian soldier is heard telling his mother. “You see, that’s bullshit. The boys, cargo 200s, are being taken home,” the soldier goes on – “cargo 200” is a Russian military code for the transportation of dead bodies.

“They, like, in Russia, like... Well, like... They mark him as if he died in Belgorod, not in Ukraine. You see the kind of system this is,” the Russian soldier says.

He also said drunkenness is rampant among the Russian military, causing everyone to “care less and less about anything.”

____________________________________________________________________

If they're put in a strong defensive position and used as speed bumps, or forced into zerg assaults, maybe they provide something.

But if Ukraine can break the defensive lines, these guys have no real will to fight. Maybe the next counter offensive isn't as easy as the one in Kharkiv simply because Russia had a severely undermanned front line, but the results will still be the same if they make breakthroughs, as difficult as they may be.

I wish the West was already sending more heavy tanks. I'm glad for the infantry vehicles. Those are critical. But some more heavy armored tanks would go a long way towards success with what's ahead. 

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