Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
1 minute ago, Gatorubet said:

I was looking for some image that said, “WE REPORT YOU DECIDE….”

…but I ran across a more interesting gif and so I’m posting that instead

13652642-9768-48D7-8EF3-BBAC09B01F00.gif.f6cf65b6378334349a793c65258da514.gif

Thanks. I needed that.

Posted

I keep reading on twitter that Spain is going to send 53 older Leopard 2s. The A4 variant, versus the A6 variant Germany and Poland are sending. 

Here's the best article I could find about it:

https://www.madridmetropolitan.com/spain-to-send-leopard-tanks-to-ukraine/

Spoiler

Spain To Send Leopard Tanks To Ukraine

The Spanish Minister of Defence, Margarita Robles, confirmed yesterday, Wednesday 25th January that Spain “ was open to providing Ukraine with a number of their German-made Leopard 2 tanks, after Germany agreed to send the tanks and said that allies could do the same.

The Minister said that “Spain is willing, within this coordination, to work with our allies to do whatever is necessary including the sending of Leopards, training in the use of these Leopards and also to help in their maintenance and upkeep.”

Spain has over 300 Leopard tanks of which 108 are the 2A4 variant which is the older model being offered.

It is believed that some 53 mothballed tanks at a military base in Zaragoza have been earmarked to be refitted and sent.

140120-Robles-1024x681.jpg Margarita Robles, Spanish Defence Minister

Last week, the Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez, told delegates at the World Economic Forum in Davos that Spain has already sent some 300 million Euros worth of equipment to Ukraine including heavy weapons such as four U.S.-made HAWK air defence systems since the Russian invasion of the country.

 
 

Spain is also hosting and training Ukrainian troops in air-defence.

Sanchez said that Spain ” will remain united, and we’ll be coordinating with the rest of our allies, especially Europe.”

However not all approve – Sanchez´s government coalition partner, Unidas Podemos, are against the move and said Spain should not send the tanks as it would only “escalate” the conflict and that Russia’s reaction could be “dangerous and unpredictable.”

Other European allies are also sending Leopards – there are an estimated 2,000 of the German made tanks in European armies.

leopard-tank-1024x512.jpg Leopard 2 main battle tank

Germany itself is sending one company of 14 Leopard 2 A6 tanks “as a first step”  – it is expected to send many more

 
 

Poland has announced it will also be sending an initial batch of 14 of the tanks.

The UK had already pledged 14 British Challenger 2 tanks to Ukraine.

Andriy Yermak, the head of Zelenskyy’s office, welcomed the German “first step.”

“Leopards are very much needed,” he said while Ukrainian President Zelenskyy announced on Twitter that he was “sincerely grateful to the Chancellor and all our friends in” Germany.

At the NATO Summit in Madrid last year, the Spanish Government announced that the country would increase defence spending to the alliance´s 2% target of GDP by 2029.

 

Honestly, it's not as clear cut as I want it to be based on the article, but at least there's some indication for a pretty healthy donation coming Ukrainians' way from Spain if they move forward with this. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Posted
7 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 

Yeah, that SBU shit is a known factor for a long time.

The military also has issues with Russian sympathizers/loyalists, but it was never as ubiquitous as in the SBU. Both services had their history as part of the Soviets, and then even after independence there was a lot of interoperability and cross communication. But with the SBU and the FSB it was far greater. Every time Yanukovych took power he strengthened the SBU with huge budgets, increased manpower, better equipment, while leaving the AFU to rot for the most part. Given that he was pretty much a Russian stooge, of course there was a huge propensity for the people hired - and certainly promoted - to be sympathetic, if not outright cheerleaders, for Russia. 

The article talks about 2010, but it's fairer to say that was the case right up to Yanukovych's departure in February 2014. 

I'd say this and Ukraine's endemic corruption - which they're also trying to fight all while prosecuting a massive war in their own territory - are the two big issues for Ukraine internally that aren't directly related to the military. I don't see any reasonable way to eliminate either one, but if they can just be seen as fighting it and making examples of people, hopefully that will help. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
7 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

more to that. 

 

What's the name of the album these dudes are dropping?

Posted
12 hours ago, The Dog said:

image.png.26b6787883271da11345f0ab29552e28.png

Worth it.

BTW, Krauts have stepped up more than they have been given credit for - just mangled the external PR.

Now do donations as a percentage of GDP or defense budget. 

  • Hook 'Em 6
  • Like 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I saw one. Will try to find it. Estonia was kicking ass. 

Yep, those comparisons are out there, and the US is at the very most in the middle of that pack, if not the bottom third.  The Baltics are all-in.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yep, those comparisons are out there, and the US is at the very most in the middle of that pack, if not the bottom third.  The Baltics are all-in.

Yeah well, more than most they are very familiar with Moscow’s benevolence.

  • Hook 'Em 5
Posted
11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yep, those comparisons are out there, and the US is at the very most in the middle of that pack, if not the bottom third.  The Baltics are all-in.

According to Inka's link, U.S. is #9 out of 37...not too shabby considering our defense budget. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
6 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

According to Inka's link, U.S. is #9 out of 37...not too shabby considering our defense budget. 

These numbers include all assistance. Military, humanitarian, etc. 

Our humanitarian support gets overlooked. It is not sexy, but it is there. Another area we are supporting is building up their police and internal affairs elements. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Posted
1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

These numbers include all assistance. Military, humanitarian, etc. 

Our humanitarian support gets overlooked. It is not sexy, but it is there. Another area we are supporting is building up their police and internal affairs elements. 

Derp.  Thanks, helps to read the header. 

  • Haha 1
Posted
1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

I wish this shit would stop. 

 

And he ain't working on behalf of NATO here.  He's working on behalf of Putin.   The hard right in Europe is strongly aligned with Putinism, pretty much across the board.

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 1
  • Rage+1 4
Posted
 
I very much look forward to their pain the next 50 years as their whole world is dramatically reduced. No jobs, no healthcare, rising crime, their already shitty infrastructure crumbling, decreased ability to travel, and everywhere they go if they can go they are treated like the psychotic lepers they are.
  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted

53 Leopards from Spain. 72 tanks from Poland.  (14 Leopards and 60 updated T-72s), 14 Leopards from Germany.   14 Challengers from UK.   31 Abrams from Uncle Sam to guard Kiev….and one tank from somewhere with a Maple leaf on its side, and a case of Molson on the back. 

184 tanks can interrupt a gaggle of BMPs trying to bring troops in-country and make those T-62s wish they had not engaged.   In a who-sees-who first engagement, our modern western optics should allow us to fuck them up before they even know we are there.

Reminder peeps - back in November it was reported that the US and the Dutch we’re splitting the cost of Czechoslovakia modernizing ninety (90) T-72 battle tanks (destined for Ukraine as soon as they were updated).   Either that did not get done - or it is being done so slowly they may not be delivered soon enough.  Or they got delivered but no one wants to talk about that because it lessens the impact of the pleas for tanks if 90 just got delivered. 

So that is 274 new tanks…eventually.   This obviously does not include all of the captured armor.  Not sure if someone is keeping a tally of those poor tractor victims.

No reason we can’t find 500 more. 

  • Hook 'Em 5
Posted
8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

????  Not sure what your point is?  I mean, yeah, it's not JUST Europe, but don't want to take this into CR territory.

I think he's talking about some those loonies on Pitcairn Island.

Posted
10 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

more to that. 

 

I had not heard of “Twardy” tanks. 

6A7A274B-8570-4F65-9FF1-01D385743407.jpeg.19e4051c403308dfbbaae7256dbc902d.jpeg

Coming soon to a Ukrainian field near you.  Thanks Poland.  Russians are fucking terrified, like all bullies used to beating up on the weak. 

 

  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 2
Posted
3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

I had not heard of “Twardy” tanks. 

 

Coming soon to a Ukrainian field near you.  Thanks Poland.  Russians are fucking terrified, like all bullies used to beating up on the weak. 

 

Solovyov might need to be the next in line to keep himself on the ground floor of the buildings he enters.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

Effective tank warfare needs great tactics, and that takes learning.  We're seen Saudi Abrams's get blowed up in Yemen for lack of training.  

But Ukrainians are voracious learners.  And once they learn how to fight right, well it's gonna be nothing but:

 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, SL Xpress said:

Yes. Those hard right people in Europe. 

Right means something different in Europe (and pretty much the rest of the world) than in the US. There are no Reagan Republicans abroad. Pretty much all parties are for state control of the economy to a certain extent. 
 
I don’t know that the Euro hard left prioritizes social justice over rule of law to the extent it does in America. 

Posted
3 hours ago, Gatorubet said:
3 hours ago, Gravy Train said:
 

I very much look forward to their pain the next 50 years as their whole world is dramatically reduced. No jobs, no healthcare, rising crime, their already shitty infrastructure crumbling, decreased ability to travel, and everywhere they go if they can go they are treated like the psychotic lepers they are.

They'll be like a giant North Korea, rattling the nuke saber every time they're hungry or they need something from the West. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
42 minutes ago, Felix said:

Tank primer #2 - Gunnery AKA The most fun you can have with your clothes on

We trained on this all the time.  It was our primary mission.  Placing steel on target.  I'm sure it's pretty much the same now, but we shot a full crew gunnery qualification at least once a year, sometimes twice depending on where you were deployed.  This consists of multiple engagements both stationary and moving against armor, both moving and stationary, and infantry.  We also spent at least an hour a week in simulators fine tuning our crew interaction, fire commands, etc.

During the early part of the invasion, there was a lot of talk from analysts and others who were familiar with Russian training and logistics, who said  many of the Russian T-72 crews were only allowed to shoot a couple of rounds a year, because the corruption was so bad and maintenance so poor, that the budget and supplies just weren't there for the training.

A couple of rounds a year.  That seems really bad.

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 3
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
59 minutes ago, Felix said:

 

CSB when I was in Korea as a PFC, I was the driver on the tank the won the Battalion cup for gunnery.  Our gunner was an absolute wizard.  On our first moving engagement the main gun hydraulic cylinder blew so the gun just dropped to it's lowest elevation.  Turret still worked so as the gunner lined up, the TC just put his foot on the breach and pushed it all the way down and as it slowly came back down (it was very well balanced) our gunner would fire as it came down onto the target.  We hit 4 targets like that on the move with no stabilization or computer range adjustment. He used the back up sight with a graduated reticle and used the TCs estimated range.  Shortest target we hit was at 1100 meters and longest was around 1350 m.  I doubt seriously I could have done that with any amount of practice.

TLDR, If the Ukrainian crews are as motivated as they seem, a brigade of NATO MBTs will absolutely roll through the Ruskies like crap through a goose, killing everything they see at ranges the Russians won't be able to comprehend.

Mother of God

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...