Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[PTINS 3521]

39 minutes ago, PTINS said:

Thanks for asking! TLDR.

I've read all 1200+ pages of this thread, so I'm going off on a tangent...

Apologies for the crap at the end. Too slow on the edit.

[Brisketexan 106900]

9 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

also the fact that there's two twits in that post making it look like we're calling hetfield a dildo is a joke all its own

The post about Hetfield linked the article, which also mentioned this song (which I hadn't heard/seen before):

It's a fine piece of music, didn't blow me away or anything, but it raised the question/concern I've had all along about this war (and about most wars, I guess).

I look at that kid, at age 15.  The Russians destroyed his home and his town, and slaughtered his neighbors.  I remember being 15, and having a pretty well-developed sense of justice, while also being smack-dab in the middle of my formative years.  So, my question is -- how does that kid (and every similarly situated kid) not grow up with an overarching goal of slitting as many Russian throats as he can, forever and ever until the culture and people that destroyed his home and killed his neighbors is eliminated?

Because I gotta tell ya....had 15 yr old Brisket been dropped in that situation, that's almost certainly where my mind would have gone, and it would have stayed there.  Even decades later, I would still be dedicating effort to making dead Russians.  Everywhere.  In their homes.  On their streets.  As they sleep.  When they travel.  Everywhere.

And yes, that also means that I understand and empathize with terrorists more than I'd like to.  I get how one's reaction to a nation state blowing up your home and community can lead one to dedicating your life to vengeance.  And how it is a lie to say "this war is the US/Russian government's, not the people's."  Bullshit.  The Russian people have the exact leadership they want, and they are happy for that leadership to do what it does.  The same can be said about the US.  Sure, there are dissenters, but....they are meaningless.

In the end, the question is "how...if at all....do you get past that?"  Decades from now, there will be tens of thousands of Ukrainians who would happily kill any Russian they lay eyes on.  It seems axiomatic to say that "war makes peace impossible," but there it is.  After what Russia has done to him....how can he EVER be at peace with Russia or Russians?  We can get into all of the philosophical discussions we want about how "forgiveness is better than vengeance," but that philosophy fails to account for the fact that a sizable chunk of humanity takes a "fuck that shit" approach to it (spoiler: I'm a lot closer to that chunk of humanity than the forgiveness chunk, and yes, I realize that doesn't say great things about me, my faith, my philosophy, or any of that.  I get it.  But grasping that truth doesn't change how I feel).

There truly is no end to this.  There can't be.  Thus, "only the dead have seen the end of war."

[The Dog 44861]

 

[The Dog 44861]

 

[Rimbo 27027]

 

[Rimbo 27027]

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

What ability does the F-16 give Ukraine compared to what they fly now?

explain this to me like I’m a small child 

(genuinely curious about its capabilities) 

[Bevo 13897]

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

What ability does the F-16 give Ukraine compared to what they fly now?

explain this to me like I’m a small child 

(genuinely curious about its capabilities) 

They don't have many planes. Now they will have more.

[Dahobbs 18324]

12 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

What ability does the F-16 give Ukraine compared to what they fly now?

explain this to me like I’m a small child 

(genuinely curious about its capabilities) 

F-16s are mainly about replacing Ukraine's limited pool of legacy Soviet aircraft. But, primarily any additional capability would come from the ability to use the vast array of weapons compatible with F-16s. This includes both air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons. As an example, Ukraine had to jury rig its migs to fire HARM missiles. This results in an reduction in deployability and capability. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Dahobbs

[Gatorubet 30720]

All growed up!

[The Dog 44861]

let's clown on the Su-57 more just because we can:

 

[The Dog 44861]

Mariupol occupiers get to meet the Storm Shadow:

 

[Foosters 18280]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

The post about Hetfield linked the article, which also mentioned this song (which I hadn't heard/seen before):

It's a fine piece of music, didn't blow me away or anything, but it raised the question/concern I've had all along about this war (and about most wars, I guess).

I look at that kid, at age 15.  The Russians destroyed his home and his town, and slaughtered his neighbors.  I remember being 15, and having a pretty well-developed sense of justice, while also being smack-dab in the middle of my formative years.  So, my question is -- how does that kid (and every similarly situated kid) not grow up with an overarching goal of slitting as many Russian throats as he can, forever and ever until the culture and people that destroyed his home and killed his neighbors is eliminated?

Because I gotta tell ya....had 15 yr old Brisket been dropped in that situation, that's almost certainly where my mind would have gone, and it would have stayed there.  Even decades later, I would still be dedicating effort to making dead Russians.  Everywhere.  In their homes.  On their streets.  As they sleep.  When they travel.  Everywhere.

And yes, that also means that I understand and empathize with terrorists more than I'd like to.  I get how one's reaction to a nation state blowing up your home and community can lead one to dedicating your life to vengeance.  And how it is a lie to say "this war is the US/Russian government's, not the people's."  Bullshit.  The Russian people have the exact leadership they want, and they are happy for that leadership to do what it does.  The same can be said about the US.  Sure, there are dissenters, but....they are meaningless.

In the end, the question is "how...if at all....do you get past that?"  Decades from now, there will be tens of thousands of Ukrainians who would happily kill any Russian they lay eyes on.  It seems axiomatic to say that "war makes peace impossible," but there it is.  After what Russia has done to him....how can he EVER be at peace with Russia or Russians?  We can get into all of the philosophical discussions we want about how "forgiveness is better than vengeance," but that philosophy fails to account for the fact that a sizable chunk of humanity takes a "fuck that shit" approach to it (spoiler: I'm a lot closer to that chunk of humanity than the forgiveness chunk, and yes, I realize that doesn't say great things about me, my faith, my philosophy, or any of that.  I get it.  But grasping that truth doesn't change how I feel).

There truly is no end to this.  There can't be.  Thus, "only the dead have seen the end of war."

Personally, were I in charge of Ukraine, I'd be developing a new branch within the national security apparatus with one objective - hunt down and assassinate the talking heads, oligarchs, propagandists, military commanders, etc. who pushed the genocide. 3, 7, hell, 20 years down the road, don't be surprised to find yourself looking down a barrel or feeling a black bag pulled over your head. You come to my country with the intent to rape, torture, and kill as many women, children, and civilians you can find? Yeah, that doesn't get settled with a peace treaty or conflict cessation. 

[The Dog 44861]

3 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Personally, were I in charge of Ukraine, I'd be developing a new branch within the national security apparatus with one objective - hunt down and assassinate the talking heads, oligarchs, propagandists, military commanders, etc. who pushed the genocide. 3, 7, hell, 20 years down the road, don't be surprised to find yourself looking down a barrel or feeling a black bag pulled over your head. You come to my country with the intent to rape, torture, and kill as many women, children, and civilians you can find? Yeah, that doesn't get settled with a peace treaty or conflict cessation. 

they're already planning on doing that. 

[InkaUtexas 26893]

4 hours ago, Jameslaw121 said:

This is where I am with the US Congress. We hear rumblings about Congress cutting off or reducing funding for Ukraine. But, virtually all the Dems are on board. I think alot of Republicans are as well. But the ones that are on the fence are about to get alot of donation for the Energy or Defense lobbies. It sounds cynical as hell. But I can't imagine any Republican's from Texas voting against a O&G lobby or against Lockheed 

Or KBR. They are sitting pretty in EUCOM. 

[Foosters 18280]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

they're already planning on doing that. 

See, I'm a natural at this stuff

[Rimbo 27027]

https://twitter.com/TrollHunter6984/status/1659650202003709966?t=24nQgbNwCoLOX5CF-tn15g&s=19

[Rimbo 27027]

 

 

[Jameslaw121 4494]

16 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Personally, were I in charge of Ukraine, I'd be developing a new branch within the national security apparatus with one objective - hunt down and assassinate the talking heads, oligarchs, propagandists, military commanders, etc. who pushed the genocide. 3, 7, hell, 20 years down the road, don't be surprised to find yourself looking down a barrel or feeling a black bag pulled over your head. You come to my country with the intent to rape, torture, and kill as many women, children, and civilians you can find? Yeah, that doesn't get settled with a peace treaty or conflict cessation. 

[Gatorubet 30720]

IOW, “ Wagner took Bakhmut -  and so now we are leaving to go make some $ in Africa and wait for Putin to die.”

[InkaUtexas 26893]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

As darkly cynical as one can be -- and honestly, I have quite mixed emotions on this because there's a lot not to like about arms flying around* -- what this has done for the western defense industry will prove to be incredible.  If you are a third party shopping for stuff that is used to blow up/break things, you have two main supplier groups: Russia-aligned groups (Russia, China, DPRK even), and western-aligned groups (the US, France, UK, Sweden, and some smaller players).  

A large-scale product demo has taken place over the past year.  If you had sales reps sitting on the sidelines with order forms ready to fill out right now, who do you think is going to easily blow past their quota, and who do you think doesn't even get the free set of steak knives?

Of course, we've also re-solidified ties with some of our best allies and trading partners, and that's always good for business as well.

* Another sad by-product of this war is that it stands as evidence of the  "peace through strength" argument/strategy.  A nation state would be a fool NOT to arm up to head off threats like they're seeing play out in real-time in Ukraine.  Lots of people are going to want to buy AA systems, HIMARS, and the like, because they are a strategic win.  And on ANOTHER layer, it's even worse, in that Russia's repeated threats of nuclear strike/nuclear blackmail are a real strong incentive to get you your own nuclear weapons.  The goal of nuclear non-proliferation has taken a beating based on the last year.

I tend to agree with you, weapons running around sucks. There are M-16's we gave Vietnam in the 1960's being used in Central America today. 

But there are some new weapons players emerging, primarily South Korea and Poland. 

[atomheartbevo 90650]

8 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The facts are that Russia achieved almost none of their stated aims, they have wrecked their military for easily a decade to come, they have been isolated from prior preferred economic and trade partners, and they have become more dependent on a smaller set of “Allies.”  They’ve paid a tremendously heavy price for basically Mariupol and some coastal real estate and likely would not have launched the war in hindsight. 

7 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

The crazy thing to me is, if Putin had done nothing, the west likely would not have truly galvanized support for Ukraine ‘starting’ a conflict to take back Crimea and/or the Donbas.  Instead, here we are.  Mind bottling stupid decision.  

Every September, aggy starts off believing they’ll get a Heisman and win the national championship…..

 

[Brisketexan 106900]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

Every September, aggy starts off believing they’ll get a Heisman and win the national championship…..

 

What you're saying is that Thujone should re-do this, but for Putin?

 

[Dahobbs 18324]

 

 

[Dahobbs 18324]

 

 

[KYHorn 17615]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

F-16s are mainly about replacing Ukraine's limited pool of legacy Soviet aircraft. But, primarily any additional capability would come from the ability to use the vast array of weapons compatible with F-16s. This includes both air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons. As an example, Ukraine had to jury rig its migs to fire HARM missiles. This results in an reduction in deployability and capability. 

Also worth noting that, while they didn't receive the F-16s in time for the offensive, it likely changes the calculus on how their current aircraft are used during the offensive.

[Schulz2.0 29280]

33 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

 

 

 

[KYHorn 17615]

 

 

 

[KYHorn 17615]

6 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by KYHorn

[Dahobbs 18324]

3 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

Also worth noting that, while they didn't receive the F-16s in time for the offensive, it likely changes the calculus on how their current aircraft are used during the offensive.

This is a really good point. 

[Gatorubet 30720]

40 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

 

 

[statsman 5693]

The F-16 looks really sleek and cool at the air shows and when you build models. That’s not what sells the airplane. The pic below shows what sells it- the ordnance it carries. (Did I mention its record in aerial combat? 71-0. Not bad for an “affordable” fighter. Come on, Ukraine. We’re counting on you to take us to triple digits). 
 
Also, it suits Ukraine because, as a single engine/single pilot aircraft, every single engine maintained and operational is a fighter in the sky. That’s important when lots of missions are being flown. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by statsman

[statsman 5693]

Really, this is what the F-16 was made for. If you have a limited number of pilots, and limited maintenance resources, a need to have a lot of planes in the air at short notice, and a lot of missiles, this is the airframe you want. 
I’m kind of excited the bird is finally getting to do what it was made for- fighting MiGs in an extended conflict. 

[Pato del Muerto 53505]

They’re already painting the Ukrainian flag and pilot names on these birds. 

[The Dog 44861]

Edited May 19, 2023 by The Dog

[Rimbo 27027]

7 minutes ago, statsman said:

I’m kind of excited the bird is finally getting to do what it was made for- fighting MiGs in an extended conflict.

 

[Rimbo 27027]

12 minutes ago, statsman said:

Really, this is what the F-16 was made for. If you have a limited number of pilots, and limited maintenance resources, a need to have a lot of planes in the air at short notice, and a lot of missiles, this is the airframe you want. 
I’m kind of excited the bird is finally getting to do what it was made for- fighting MiGs in an extended conflict. 

 

[Rimbo 27027]

13 minutes ago, statsman said:

Really, this is what the F-16 was made for. If you have a limited number of pilots, and limited maintenance resources, a need to have a lot of planes in the air at short notice, and a lot of missiles, this is the airframe you want. 
I’m kind of excited the bird is finally getting to do what it was made for- fighting MiGs in an extended conflict. 

actually holup

if we're talking about F-16s, only one 80s right wing action film will do

 

[Bevo 13897]

[Rimbo 27027]

[KYHorn 17615]

Potentially a command post that was hit

 

 

 

 

[Gengs1 2583]

7 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Hate to the that guy but I think those are F18 flown by the Navy’s but anyway  

[InkaUtexas 26893]

1 hour ago, KYHorn said:

Also worth noting that, while they didn't receive the F-16s in time for the offensive, it likely changes the calculus on how their current aircraft are used during the offensive.

Good point. And they can in other ex-Russia aircraft (Romania, Poland, etc) and be ready for the F-16. This war is not over this year sadly. 

[KYHorn 17615]

They would've gotten away with it, if it wasn't for those pesky Ukrainians. And that loitering munition

 

 

[statsman 5693]

13 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

They would've gotten away with it, if it wasn't for those pesky Ukrainians. And that loitering munition

 

 

Stupid moose and squirrel!

[The Dog 44861]

 

[Gatorubet 30720]

15 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

 

 

They misspelled Bukkake…

[BamaATL 16593]

12 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

They misspelled Bukkake…

Oh no, all our best and brightest from the San Fernando Valley will need to be activated.  

[Bevo 13897]

 

1 hour ago, Gengs1 said:

Hate to the that guy but I think those are F18 flown by the Navy’s but anyway  

 

[Parliament 14598]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Those are F18's, not 16"s.