Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[BamaATL 16593]

Speaking of Swedish hardware

 

[Brisketexan 105162]

Just now, BamaATL said:

Speaking of Swedish hardware

You posted the wrong pic of Swedish hardware.

[Pato del Muerto 52531]

However:

Quote

And no disrespect to any other fighters, including Norwegian pilots because they’re just as well trained, but during a combat exercise with the Royal Norwegain Air Force, 3 Swedish Gripens went up against 5 RNAF F-16’s. The Result was 5-0, 5-0, 5-1 after having flown 3 rounds.

and 

Quote

Englund continues: ‘During Loyal Arrow in Sweden, 3 F-15C’s from the USAF were intercepted by a Gripen acting as an aggressor. The result was 2 F-15’s shot down and one managed to escape due to better thrust/weight. To the F-15s defence it was on the Gripens back yard.

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-saab-gripen-is-able-to-dogfight-and-win-against-almost-any-dissimilar-aircraft-former-swedish-air-force-flight-engineer-explains-how/amp/

[BamaATL 16593]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You posted the wrong pic of Swedish hardware.

Not judging but we might be into different things. 

[Brisketexan 105162]

1 minute ago, BamaATL said:

Not judging but we might be into different things. 

You fight Russia with your chosen weaponry, I'll fight them with mine.  I thought we were in the nest in the trust tree?

[Rimbo 25996]

Any of you hardcore policy wonks gonna sign up for this?

[956 Worldwide 34734]

3 hours ago, statsman said:

This is a rough one. 
 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/36-hours-in-bakhmut-one-units-desperate-battle-to-hold-back-the-russians-72e30f01?st=mjipju6ditasz8m&reflink=share_mobilewebshare

I’m really not interested in “what abouting” wrt the Russians on this one. This is wrong. A military draft is a dubious practice for a free people, one that should not even come up for debate unless the threat is existential (for Ukraine, it is). Given that, a drafted citizen (if “citizen” means anything) should be trained adequately and provisioned before battle.

Yikes. This is brutal. What this smells of to me: the Army directed the conscription and training units to deliver X number of troops to Bakhmut on X day, some money changed hands to get the original draftees out of training and fighting, and then these guys got grabbed up and delivered as a substitute. I have a difficult time believing it’s a general practice or directive. 
 

I posted it before the war— it is absolutely true that Ukraine was absolutely besieged by corruption, nearly all of it encouraged by and inherited from Russia/USSR.  It is extremely hard to change mentalities and practices all the way down the line and war offers chances for  heroism, but also all the grift and bribes you can hope for. 

[956 Worldwide 34734]

6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

However:

and 

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-saab-gripen-is-able-to-dogfight-and-win-against-almost-any-dissimilar-aircraft-former-swedish-air-force-flight-engineer-explains-how/amp/

The Gripen is a very good fighter. It’s not optimized for strike missions. I’d call the E version basically the ultimate 4th gen pure dog fighter, kind of the pinnacle of that branch of evolution while the F-22 and F-35 are a new species. 

[BamaATL 16593]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You fight Russia with your chosen weaponry, I'll fight them with mine.  I thought we were in the nest in the trust tree?

Well, everyday is a workout when you gotta carry around a 20 pound python in your jeans.  

[Pato del Muerto 52531]

4 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The Gripen is a very good fighter. It’s not optimized for strike missions. I’d call the E version basically the ultimate 4th gen pure dog fighter, kind of the pinnacle of that branch of evolution while the F-22 and F-35 are a new species. 

That linked article calls the f-35 a peer, and distinguishes them from the stealthy fighters. 

[956 Worldwide 34734]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That linked article calls the f-35 a peer, and distinguishes them from the stealthy fighters. 

Well, the Swedish engineer calls it a peer, sure. And they are actively selling it as a peer to countries considering both. But it really isn’t, and it’s not just stealth even though that plays a big part. It’s just not a competitor for what the F-35 can do as a basically a flying computer that’s networked with everything else. 

[The Dog 44067]

29 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I’ve said before on this forum that the Gripen would be a fantastic fighter for UA if there were only enough of them. 
 

 

Perun mentioned this too a while back. Said it was the ideal fighter for them but like you said - there just aren't that many.

[The Dog 44067]

NSIAP:

 

[Bevo 13587]

16 minutes ago, The Dog said:

NSIAP:

 

What do y'all think, injured or perfectly healthy?

[Rimbo 25996]

 

[Rimbo 25996]

the malarkey on Twitter is reaching epic levels

 

 

[Chad Fuck 17694]

55 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Any of you hardcore policy wonks gonna sign up for this?

Lookit the big brain on Mason!

[Macanudo 12997]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

However:

and 

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-saab-gripen-is-able-to-dogfight-and-win-against-almost-any-dissimilar-aircraft-former-swedish-air-force-flight-engineer-explains-how/amp/

How exactly does being in the Grippen's backyard matter?   Is the air different in Sweden?

[Brisketexan 105162]

5 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Lookit the big brain on Mason!

Also, I just found out that apparently, Napoleon Dynamite knows Ms. Cafarella....

[Pato del Muerto 52531]

4 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

How exactly does being in the Grippen's backyard matter?   Is the air different in Sweden?

Trying to figure out what the hard deck is when the evolution brief says it’s 3000 meters. 

[MillerEP 30492]

 

[The Dog 44067]

[Slacks 6825]

11 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Dafuq you talking about? 

The 17th Century. 

[Slacks 6825]

51 minutes ago, Bevo said:

What do y'all think, injured or perfectly healthy?

He ain't dead. He didn't move his right arm and his posture looks pretty slouched. Something ain't right, but he ain't dead. 

[MillerEP 30492]

 

[Schulz2.0 28977]

 

[Mullet Free 40]

58 minutes ago, Bevo said:

What do y'all think, injured or perfectly healthy?

He has a Chubbs Peterson right hand.

[MillerEP 30492]

^Tangently related, but interesting to see they can find peace without Russian meddling. My personal theory is Putin wants them fighting to keep playing them off each other and have leverage to use. 

[Mullet Free 40]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Yikes. This is brutal. What this smells of to me: the Army directed the conscription and training units to deliver X number of troops to Bakhmut on X day, some money changed hands to get the original draftees out of training and fighting, and then these guys got grabbed up and delivered as a substitute. I have a difficult time believing it’s a general practice or directive. 
 

I posted it before the war— it is absolutely true that Ukraine was absolutely besieged by corruption, nearly all of it encouraged by and inherited from Russia/USSR.  It is extremely hard to change mentalities and practices all the way down the line and war offers chances for  heroism, but also all the grift and bribes you can hope for. 

The New Yorker piece I shared had similar stories. One was a doctor and father of 3 that was drafted into infantry. He had a month of tutorials and marching training and claimed he shot 30 practice rounds total in training. They're obviously short on manpower while others train elsewhere in Europe.

[MillerEP 30492]

 

[956 Worldwide 34734]

13 minutes ago, Mullet Free said:

The New Yorker piece I shared had similar stories. One was a doctor and father of 3 that was drafted into infantry. He had a month of tutorials and marching training and claimed he shot 30 practice rounds total in training. They're obviously short on manpower while others train elsewhere in Europe.

A month tracks with what conscripts would get as part of basic in an army that still has not fully transformed from the old Soviet model, and yes— they don’t have their conscripts shoot much. That’s indicative of the exigencies of war and a not -fully westernized military.

The guys in the WSJ piece got none or maybe a couple days of “this is a gun.” That’s a far more serious breach and tells me that something was off in the intake and conscription process. 

[MillerEP 30492]

 

[Parliament 14267]

3 hours ago, BamaATL said:

These ones get me a bit

 

Go get some, Boys!

[MillerEP 30492]

 

[Rimbo 25996]

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/24/7403711/

Quote

Quote from Skibitskyi: "He [Putin - ed.] notices that we are getting closer to him, but maybe he is also afraid of being killed by his own people... He is only now starting to stick his head out, and if he does that, we can’t be sure that it is really him." 

Details: When asked whether Ukraine’s Defence Intelligence was behind the attacks on Russian propagandists, Skibitskyi said they were not important targets; the special forces' priority is to destroy the unit commander who ordered his men to attack. In particular, he said, Ukrainian intelligence is trying to eliminate Wagner Group leader Yevgeny Prigozhin.

...

In addition, he confirmed that attacks on critical infrastructure facilities on Russian territory are the work of various Ukrainian agencies. This is done in order to interrupt the occupiers’ supply chains.

As far as temporarily occupied Crimea is concerned, Skibitskyi said there is not much critical infrastructure that could be destroyed to prevent weapons from being delivered.

...

Skibitsky noted that the Crimean Bridge is still standing because Ukraine wants to give the Russians an opportunity to flee the peninsula.

 

[The Dog 44067]

 

[MissingInAction 25120]

1 hour ago, Slacks said:

The 17th Century. 

[MillerEP 30492]

 

[The Dog 44067]

[Macanudo 12997]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Trying to figure out what the hard deck is when the evolution brief says it’s 3000 meters. 

The hard deck for this hop was 10,000 feet. You knew it, you broke it. You followed Commander Heatherly below after he lost sight of you and called no joy.

[The Dog 44067]

 

[MillerEP 30492]

 

[The Dog 44067]

 

[SL Xpress 7516]

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

A month tracks with what conscripts would get as part of basic in an army that still has not fully transformed from the old Soviet model, and yes— they don’t have their conscripts shoot much. That’s indicative of the exigencies of war and a not -fully westernized military.

The guys in the WSJ piece got none or maybe a couple days of “this is a gun.” That’s a far more serious breach and tells me that something was off in the intake and conscription process. 

I've seen in multiple interviews from people serving in the frontlines that they had to pay a bribe at the recruiting office to be allowed to volunteer. They were refused because of medical conditions, but after paying $300, no more medical conditions. That was multiple people with the same experience. Doesn't mean it was happening everywhere, but it's obvious it wasn't an isolated incident, either. 

[SL Xpress 7516]

In some of the biggest news I've seen in a while, the Wall Street Journal is reporting South Korea has a confidential agreement with the US government to provide 250,000 artillery shells in a first tranche eventually to reach 1 million shells. 

Not sure what happens with the agreement being reported in the press, but I am excited to hear about it. 

The article is behind a paywall.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/south-korean-artillery-supply-allows-u-s-to-delay-decision-on-cluster-munitions-for-ukraine-4e41c04b

 

[The Dog 44067]

 

[NorthLoop 14218]

41 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

Gravytrain lives on!

[MillerEP 30492]

 

[Rimbo 25996]

Spoiler

 

 

 

Russia’s 'invincible' hypersonic missiles prove anything but, as Ukraine utilizes U.S. Patriot defenses

Russia’s hypersonic Kinzhal has been shot down repeatedly by U.S.-supplied air defenses.

Michael Weiss and James Rushton

Thu, May 25, 2023 at 2:40 PM PDT·5 min read

In this article:

 

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin attends the Supreme Economic Eurasian Council at the Grand Kremlin Palace on Thursday in Moscow. (Contributor/Getty Images)

It was meant to be the Russian “wonder weapon,” but it turned out to be just another example of Vladimir Putin’s military over-promising and under-delivering.

The Kh-47M2 “Kinzhal” — which means “dagger” in Russian — was billed as a state-of-the-art hypersonic missile, “invincible,” in Putin’s words, to Western air defenses. For the early months of Russia’s full-scale war on Ukraine, it seemed to be just that. The missile had been used in the first year of the war to successfully strike several targets across Ukraine, no doubt causing significant damage.

Turning point

 

Pentagon Press Secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder addresses a news briefing at the Pentagon on Wednesday in Arlington, Va. (Alex Wong/Getty Images)

That all changed when Ukraine received U.S.-manufactured Patriot PAC-2 and PAC-3 air defense systems in April. The PAC-3, the latest version of the venerable American system, was originally developed as part of America’s Strategic Defense Initiative, nicknamed “Star Wars” by its critics, first introduced in the early 1980s by President Ronald Reagan to counter ballistic missiles.

Over a little more than two weeks, Ukrainian-manned Patriots shot down seven out of seven Kinzhals launched at targets throughout Ukraine, according to the Ukrainian Air Force. Pentagon press secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder confirmed the first shoot-down at a press conference on May 9, and another administration official speaking to the New York Times on May 16 confirmed the other interceptions.

During the May 16 attack, which directly targeted the Patriot system, part of the platform suffered “minor” damage, according to U.S. officials, that was repaired within a day. The Kremlin, of course, has maintained the fiction that all its missiles successfully hit their targets. “The fake report that a Kinzhal was allegedly intercepted is a wishful thinking attempt,” a Russian Ministry of Defense source told the state media outlet TASS.

Even if the Ukrainian military is overstating its defensive capability, a Russian missile falling anywhere in Kyiv would have been detected by locals and recorded on social media. Since the arrival of the Patriot missile batteries, that has not happened.

Assessing the hypersonic threat

 

A 9K720 Iskander-M is displayed at a fair within the ARMY-2019 International Military and Technical Forum in Moscow on June 25, 2019. (Sefa Karacan/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images)

The Kinzhal entered service in December 2017. Two years later, Putin declared that it and other Russian hypersonic weapons proved that Russia was leading the world in hypersonic capability. The boast was reminiscent of Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev’s bravado in the late 1950s, when he claimed that Soviet intercontinental ballistic missiles were rolling off the factory floor “like sausages,” feeding the false perception in the United States that the U.S. was at a disadvantage and suffering from a missile gap with Moscow. “We have a situation that is unique in modern history when they are trying to catch up with us," Putin said. “Not a single country has hypersonic weapons, let alone hypersonic weapons of intercontinental range.”

He was wrong.

In reality, the Kinzhal is not that impressive. It is an upgraded version of Russia’s older, ground-launched 9K720 Iskander ballistic missile, modified so that it can be air-launched from Russian aircraft. As for Putin’s claim of the weapon’s hypersonic speed, this was true in the same way all ballistic missiles since the German V-2 rockets started pulverizing London in World War II have achieved hypersonic speeds at certain phases of flight.

Despite Putin’s grand claims, air-launched ballistic missiles are not new technology.

The GAM-87 “Skybolt” air-launched ballistic missile was developed by the United States in the late 1950s, and hit top speeds of Mach 12, well in excess of the speeds the Kinzhal can reach. However, the project was ultimately canceled in 1962, when U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara assessed that the system provided very little benefit over the United States’ existing arsenal of land- and submarine-launched ballistic missiles.

Russian scientists charged with treason

 

The 9K720 Iskander (NATO reporting name SS-26 Stone), a mobile theater ballistic missile system, is rolled out during the Victory Day parade, on May 9, 2011, in Moscow's Red Square. (Konstantin Zavrazhin/Getty Images)

Putin’s claims relied on confusion over the definition of “hypersonic” and also the conflation of the Kinzhal with the newer generations of hypersonic weapons. Hypersonic cruise missiles and hypersonic glide vehicles have the ability to maneuver — to evade air defenses, for example — at speeds in excess of Mach 5, something the Kinzhal cannot do. This makes new-generation hypersonic weapons much more difficult to intercept than traditional ballistic missiles traveling at hypersonic speeds.

Regardless of the exaggerated Russian claims, the Kinzhal was still an impossible target for Ukraine’s Soviet-legacy air defense systems to shoot down. A Ukrainian government source told Yahoo News that the provision of such air defense systems, while primarily providing an invaluable shield for Ukrainian people, is a cheap way for Ukraine’s Western partners to gain real life combat data on their performance against the latest Russian weapons.

Russian hubris that the system worked perfectly seemed even more incredible in light of the arrest of the third scientist responsible for the development of the Kinzhal on charges of “high treason.” On May 16, the same day Ukrainian Patriots shot down six incoming Kinzhals, Russian state media announced the arrest of Valery Zvegintsev. Zvegintsev joins Anatoly Maslov and Alexander Shiplyuk, two other high-profile Russian scientists who worked on the Kinzhal project and were arrested for alleged treason in the summer of 2022.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BamaATL 16593]

9 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Russia’s 'invincible' hypersonic missiles prove anything but, as Ukraine utilizes U.S. Patriot defenses

Russia’s hypersonic Kinzhal has been shot down repeatedly by U.S.-supplied air defenses.

Michael Weiss and James Rushton

Thu, May 25, 2023 at 2:40 PM PDT·5 min read

In this article:

 

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin attends the Supreme Economic Eurasian Council at the Grand Kremlin Palace on Thursday in Moscow. (Contributor/Getty Images)

It was meant to be the Russian “wonder weapon,” but it turned out to be just another example of Vladimir Putin’s military over-promising and under-delivering.

The Kh-47M2 “Kinzhal” — which means “dagger” in Russian — was billed as a state-of-the-art hypersonic missile, “invincible,” in Putin’s words, to Western air defenses. For the early months of Russia’s full-scale war on Ukraine, it seemed to be just that. The missile had been used in the first year of the war to successfully strike several targets across Ukraine, no doubt causing significant damage.

Turning point

 

Pentagon Press Secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder addresses a news briefing at the Pentagon on Wednesday in Arlington, Va. (Alex Wong/Getty Images)

That all changed when Ukraine received U.S.-manufactured Patriot PAC-2 and PAC-3 air defense systems in April. The PAC-3, the latest version of the venerable American system, was originally developed as part of America’s Strategic Defense Initiative, nicknamed “Star Wars” by its critics, first introduced in the early 1980s by President Ronald Reagan to counter ballistic missiles.

Over a little more than two weeks, Ukrainian-manned Patriots shot down seven out of seven Kinzhals launched at targets throughout Ukraine, according to the Ukrainian Air Force. Pentagon press secretary Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder confirmed the first shoot-down at a press conference on May 9, and another administration official speaking to the New York Times on May 16 confirmed the other interceptions.

During the May 16 attack, which directly targeted the Patriot system, part of the platform suffered “minor” damage, according to U.S. officials, that was repaired within a day. The Kremlin, of course, has maintained the fiction that all its missiles successfully hit their targets. “The fake report that a Kinzhal was allegedly intercepted is a wishful thinking attempt,” a Russian Ministry of Defense source told the state media outlet TASS.

Even if the Ukrainian military is overstating its defensive capability, a Russian missile falling anywhere in Kyiv would have been detected by locals and recorded on social media. Since the arrival of the Patriot missile batteries, that has not happened.

Assessing the hypersonic threat

 

A 9K720 Iskander-M is displayed at a fair within the ARMY-2019 International Military and Technical Forum in Moscow on June 25, 2019. (Sefa Karacan/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images)

The Kinzhal entered service in December 2017. Two years later, Putin declared that it and other Russian hypersonic weapons proved that Russia was leading the world in hypersonic capability. The boast was reminiscent of Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev’s bravado in the late 1950s, when he claimed that Soviet intercontinental ballistic missiles were rolling off the factory floor “like sausages,” feeding the false perception in the United States that the U.S. was at a disadvantage and suffering from a missile gap with Moscow. “We have a situation that is unique in modern history when they are trying to catch up with us," Putin said. “Not a single country has hypersonic weapons, let alone hypersonic weapons of intercontinental range.”

He was wrong.

In reality, the Kinzhal is not that impressive. It is an upgraded version of Russia’s older, ground-launched 9K720 Iskander ballistic missile, modified so that it can be air-launched from Russian aircraft. As for Putin’s claim of the weapon’s hypersonic speed, this was true in the same way all ballistic missiles since the German V-2 rockets started pulverizing London in World War II have achieved hypersonic speeds at certain phases of flight.

Despite Putin’s grand claims, air-launched ballistic missiles are not new technology.

The GAM-87 “Skybolt” air-launched ballistic missile was developed by the United States in the late 1950s, and hit top speeds of Mach 12, well in excess of the speeds the Kinzhal can reach. However, the project was ultimately canceled in 1962, when U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara assessed that the system provided very little benefit over the United States’ existing arsenal of land- and submarine-launched ballistic missiles.

Russian scientists charged with treason

 

The 9K720 Iskander (NATO reporting name SS-26 Stone), a mobile theater ballistic missile system, is rolled out during the Victory Day parade, on May 9, 2011, in Moscow's Red Square. (Konstantin Zavrazhin/Getty Images)

Putin’s claims relied on confusion over the definition of “hypersonic” and also the conflation of the Kinzhal with the newer generations of hypersonic weapons. Hypersonic cruise missiles and hypersonic glide vehicles have the ability to maneuver — to evade air defenses, for example — at speeds in excess of Mach 5, something the Kinzhal cannot do. This makes new-generation hypersonic weapons much more difficult to intercept than traditional ballistic missiles traveling at hypersonic speeds.

Regardless of the exaggerated Russian claims, the Kinzhal was still an impossible target for Ukraine’s Soviet-legacy air defense systems to shoot down. A Ukrainian government source told Yahoo News that the provision of such air defense systems, while primarily providing an invaluable shield for Ukrainian people, is a cheap way for Ukraine’s Western partners to gain real life combat data on their performance against the latest Russian weapons.

Russian hubris that the system worked perfectly seemed even more incredible in light of the arrest of the third scientist responsible for the development of the Kinzhal on charges of “high treason.” On May 16, the same day Ukrainian Patriots shot down six incoming Kinzhals, Russian state media announced the arrest of Valery Zvegintsev. Zvegintsev joins Anatoly Maslov and Alexander Shiplyuk, two other high-profile Russian scientists who worked on the Kinzhal project and were arrested for alleged treason in the summer of 2022.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is sort of surprising that people stealing toilets wouldn't be able to figure out how to make hyper-sonic weapons.  Maybe they should recalibrate their collective goals to not shitting in a bucket or outhouse.  You know, start small, before you know it, they might have washing machines.