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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104537

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Didn’t Zelensky basically run on a single issue of wiping out corruption? That would seem to be a pretty strong indication of the country’s desires.

Yeah...but he had an uphill climb, and not a perfect record on his own in that regard.  It's not wrong of us to acknowledge that:

1)  Ukraine has a pretty stout history of corruption.

2)  Yes, a shitload of that was Russia-related, but there was plenty home-grown as well.

3)  You don't root out corruption overnight.  AND, there are and will remain people in Ukraine who have a vested interest in not rooting it out.

4)  Thus, the path to getting Ukraine to somewhere acceptable on the corruption scale is going to be a moderately long one (note...there are NATO stalwarts that don't exactly perform great in this respect, cough cough Italy, Albania, Greece....)

A big part of the task of rebuilding Ukraine will be rebuilding (and in some cases, building from the ground up) institutions that better withstand/reject corruption.  If you're expecting or even hoping for a corruption-free Ukraine, keep hoping (shit, I'd love a corruption-free Texas, but I'm not getting that anytime soon).  But if you're hoping for a Ukraine that is not materially more corrupt than several comparable EU/NATO nations, that goal is achievable.

And the fact that the nation as a whole is being tested by fire (literally) and is dedicated to pursuing a common goal for the common good is a major point in the development of the right kind of character.  Hell, a big part of the reason Ukraine is in this war is that Russia didn't much care for Ukraine's turn away from being part of Russia's extended mafia state.  "If Ukraine won't stay bought, we best just take their asses over."  The divide between the two ways of being in this world is being presented starkly.  Ukraine has the opportunity, and much of the will, to pivot to a better way.  There is no guarantee that it will succeed.  First, they have to win the war.  And then second, the West has to stick with the hard part of rebuilding, and the non-glamorous one (and one that may tick off some Ukrainian politicians, who would prefer the old way).

But I can all but guarantee this.  When the war is over, the corruption score of Ukraine will be farther from the corruption score of Russia than it ever has been.

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AUS-97HORN
AUS-97HORN

For the love of Christ woman,  stop posting the same fucking thing every 20 mins just to make your neurotic self feel better.     Bring something useful to the thread other than your inane babbli

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InkaUtexas
InkaUtexas

I volunteered today. Log/Admin role to replace people for 30-60 days. The operation is in the west, or should the Orcs win will be pulled back behind the NATO wall. Either way the humanitarian effort

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11802

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Posted
1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

I don’t like Russians and will refrain from commenting further until I read the thread more. Just as your view has somewhat been shaped by the above anecdote, mine has somewhat as well by my former SEAL buddy (still a reservist that trains active duty SEALs).  

I’m not trying to be contrarian and it sounds like the consensus thinks I’m ill-informed and I probably am. 

I'm not sure that the current situation has anything to do with anybody 'liking' anyone.   If you undertake an action that kills women and children, you are a shithead, plain and simple.  You are persona non grata.  War crimes and all that.  If you support Russia, you support killing innocent civilians who were living their lives prior to you fucking invading them.  

 

 

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11802

Posted
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1 minute ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I'm not sure that the current situation has anything to do with anybody 'liking' anyone.   If you undertake an action that kills women and children, you are a shithead, plain and simple.  You are persona non grata.  War crimes and all that.  If you support Russia, you support killing innocent civilians who were living their lives prior to you fucking invading them.  

Also, a porterhouse sucks.  It is trying to be all things to all people and fails at every cut.  Ribeye, good.  NY strip, good.  Porterhouse, a big piece of beef that sucks.

 

 

 

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16592

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13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah...but he had an uphill climb, and not a perfect record on his own in that regard.  It's not wrong of us to acknowledge that:

1)  Ukraine has a pretty stout history of corruption.

2)  Yes, a shitload of that was Russia-related, but there was plenty home-grown as well.

3)  You don't root out corruption overnight.  AND, there are and will remain people in Ukraine who have a vested interest in not rooting it out.

4)  Thus, the path to getting Ukraine to somewhere acceptable on the corruption scale is going to be a moderately long one (note...there are NATO stalwarts that don't exactly perform great in this respect, cough cough Italy, Albania, Greece....)

A big part of the task of rebuilding Ukraine will be rebuilding (and in some cases, building from the ground up) institutions that better withstand/reject corruption.  If you're expecting or even hoping for a corruption-free Ukraine, keep hoping (shit, I'd love a corruption-free Texas, but I'm not getting that anytime soon).  But if you're hoping for a Ukraine that is not materially more corrupt than several comparable EU/NATO nations, that goal is achievable.

And the fact that the nation as a whole is being tested by fire (literally) and is dedicated to pursuing a common goal for the common good is a major point in the development of the right kind of character.  Hell, a big part of the reason Ukraine is in this war is that Russia didn't much care for Ukraine's turn away from being part of Russia's extended mafia state.  "If Ukraine won't stay bought, we best just take their asses over."  The divide between the two ways of being in this world is being presented starkly.  Ukraine has the opportunity, and much of the will, to pivot to a better way.  There is no guarantee that it will succeed.  First, they have to win the war.  And then second, the West has to stick with the hard part of rebuilding, and the non-glamorous one (and one that may tick off some Ukrainian politicians, who would prefer the old way).

But I can all but guarantee this.  When the war is over, the corruption score of Ukraine will be farther from the corruption score of Russia than it ever has been.

The other aspect of this is the west's collective support at the end of all this.  If we do a shit job, backsliding is extremely possible, if we support them on rebuilding they have a chance to build a future that is bright.  This isn't over once the fighting stops if the west actually gives a shit making this work.  Regardless of cost, to see Russia's military capability destroyed will have made it the bargain of a lifetime.  

Mind you, leaving all that out, the cost of freedom is worth it; it's the right thing, and the fact that some Americans seem to not be interested in that is fucking embarrassing.    End o discussion.  

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deech

deech 2251

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Posted

After Wagner snags a Lt. Col., the MOD blows up a damn putting several frontline troops under water without pulling them away solely because they want to save face and make the argument that Ukraine did it.  

I would have to think that troop morale is not the highest right now in the Russian military.  

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89396

Posted
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41 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

The other aspect of this is the west's collective support at the end of all this.  If we do a shit job, backsliding is extremely possible, if we support them on rebuilding they have a chance to build a future that is bright.  This isn't over once the fighting stops if the west actually gives a shit making this work.  Regardless of cost, to see Russia's military capability destroyed will have made it the bargain of a lifetime. 

Thankfully, but unfortunately, Russia keeps making the case for why the West needs to support Ukraine, with the latest being taking out the dam.

16 minutes ago, deech said:

After Wagner snags a Lt. Col., the MOD blows up a damn putting several frontline troops under water without pulling them away solely because they want to save face and make the argument that Ukraine did it.  

I would have to think that troop morale is not the highest right now in the Russian military.  

Yeah, and you didn't even mention that the Russian leadership can't even secure the borders of Russia proper. There are Russian troops dying on Russian soil, killed by other Russians who hate Putin, and Putin still doesn't seem all that concerned about securing the border.

15 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The more russia fail the more desparate the acts they will take. Buckle up.

I don't know, their border is still unsecured, they just killed a bunch of Russians.  I don't think they give a shit.

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Hook1997

Hook1997 5270

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Didn’t Zelensky basically run on a single issue of wiping out corruption? That would seem to be a pretty strong indication of the country’s desires.

There’s plenty of it left and they guy who financed his campaign was actually very corrupt and was indicted by the US in 2020, he cut ties with him a few months ago finally. You have to tread lightly when everyone around is corrupt, the devil you know vs the one you don’t.  Many are skimming millions from all the money flooding into Ukraine still I’d bet.  

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Bevo

Bevo 13516

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Posted
Just now, Hook1997 said:

There’s plenty of it left and they guy who financed his campaign was actually very corrupt and was indicted by the US in 2020, he cut ties with him a few months ago finally. You have to tread lightly when everyone around is corrupt, the devil you know vs the one you don’t.  

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SquishMitten

SquishMitten 10397

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1 hour ago, BamaATL said:

The other aspect of this is the west's collective support at the end of all this.  If we do a shit job, backsliding is extremely possible, if we support them on rebuilding they have a chance to build a future that is bright.  This isn't over once the fighting stops if the west actually gives a shit making this work.  Regardless of cost, to see Russia's military capability destroyed will have made it the bargain of a lifetime.  

Mind you, leaving all that out, the cost of freedom is worth it; it's the right thing, and the fact that some Americans seem to not be interested in that is fucking embarrassing.    End o discussion.  

Fortunately, several countries have committed a shit ton of money to reconstruction already. There will be a ton of foreign companies moving in to accept that money and the rebuilding process should essentially continue building on itself. Money there, improvements made, jobs increase, property becomes more valuable, and more money is naturally put towards it.
 

Plus tourism. I know damn well I can’t wait to go visit and shake some Ukrainian hands. And I ain’t the only one. 

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SquishMitten

SquishMitten 10397

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7 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

And?

Even if the Uke's did blow up Nord Stream, I'm kind of indifferent to it.  They are fighting for their lives.  Europe needed to be off Russia oil teet, they probably needed such a shock to act, and there've been about 100 Buchas since proving over and over that Russia needs to be put down like a rabid dog.  

Tl;dr:  It doesn't change the bottom line of fuck the Russians.  

 

Yeah. And at this point, it probably doesn’t even matter. If it was UK (which I still highly doubt), it would’ve been real bad if that became the official conclusion early on. But now that Europe is off Russian oil and fully committed to UK, it’s way past the point of changing anything. 

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Parliament

Parliament 14121

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3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

There were problems, and people openly acknowledge it, but the Russian influence, which was 95% of the problem with Ukraine's past corruption, will be mostly gone, and/or is already waning, by the time this is wrapped up.

It's fair to be concerned about a soon-to-be free Ukraine regressing, as we've seen it elsewhere.  One presumes the NGO's are working on plans to help make that not happen.  But first, let's kill some goddamn Russians.

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27-25

27-25 2040

Posted
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19 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Plus tourism. I know damn well I can’t wait to go visit and shake some Ukrainian hands. And I ain’t the only one. 

It will be many years before it's feasible, but a river cruise up the Dnieper might be interesting.

Until then, they have to deal with this:

 

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Bevo

Bevo 13516

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41 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

As all of the sediment and pollutants in those flood waters flow into the Black Sea, there is going to be an awful dead zone.  I wonder how big it will be, and how many country's fisheries it will affect.

I can't wait to lay on the beach in Crimea and hopefully place my towel where there isn't a landmine.

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3 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I'm not sure that the current situation has anything to do with anybody 'liking' anyone.   If you undertake an action that kills women and children, you are a shithead, plain and simple.  You are persona non grata.  War crimes and all that.  If you support Russia, you support killing innocent civilians who were living their lives prior to you fucking invading them.  

 

 

There’s not a thing I support about Russia. 

2 hours ago, BamaATL said:

Lesser of two evils, ok assclown.  Quite literally go fuck your own face.  

 

My comments were strictly about the governments, and I should have not made the comments.

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BamaATL

BamaATL 16592

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

There’s not a thing I support about Russia. 

My comments were strictly about the governments, and I should have not made the comments.

I was a bit harsh in my response and apologize, sometimes things get lost in translation, and I have certainly been guilty of having something read one way and not have meant it in that manner.  

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89396

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Gotta give the Russians credit for distracting everybody from the fact that they were losing Russian territory to Russian invaders, and they found a way to distract the media by wrecking a dam.  The whole "we have to take over Ukraine to protect ourselves" thing turning into "well, our big invasion last year has now led to us losing territory in Russia, see we told you that Ukraine was a threat!"

If ever there was a time for the Russian Army to show some competence and bravery, rush in and capture a bunch of people and publicly execute them, this would be it - publicly executing those Russians who invaded Russia.  But no, instead Russia is executing loyal Russian soldiers whose only crime was being downstream of the dam.

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46 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I was a bit harsh in my response and apologize, sometimes things get lost in translation, and I have certainly been guilty of having something read one way and not have meant it in that manner.  

It’s alright. I got punched in the dick for that one, probably deservedly so. 

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25766

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Porterhouse said:

There’s not a thing I support about Russia. 

My comments were strictly about the governments, and I should have not made the comments.

It takes a big man to admit to his errors. And it takes an even bigger man to point and laugh at that man.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25766

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43 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Gotta give the Russians credit for distracting everybody from the fact that they were losing Russian territory to Russian invaders, and they found a way to distract the media by wrecking a dam.  The whole "we have to take over Ukraine to protect ourselves" thing turning into "well, our big invasion last year has now led to us losing territory in Russia, see we told you that Ukraine was a threat!"

On the flip side, while everyone's wondering about the dam, the counteroffensive is happening.

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27392

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10 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think it is becoming increasingly plausible and defensible to envision Ukraine seizing substantial parts of Russian territory and either holding them for ransom pending the payment of reparations or simply taking assets from them under the general guise of reparations.

Those toilets and washing machines won’t be worth shit

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27594

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wait a second. Are we supposed to be super concerned about the money we send to a war zone getting used properly?

I got some bad news for you about us.

Edit; the problems we had in places like Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Iraq don't appear to be happening. We have a long and sordid history of looking the other way in regards to misappropriation of funds.

 

Rep. Joe Courtney, D-Conn., noted Ukraine’s position on a corruption index compiled by the group Transparency International has improved in the past year and praised Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s recent crackdown on graft within his government.

“I would say he courageously took steps to remove officials, some very close even to his office and political supporters of his own, which shows, I think, a tremendous commitment to not just talking about trying to address this problem,” Courtney said. “I think that should be acknowledged in terms of the seriousness with which he and his administration are pursuing this goal.

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2023-02-28/military-aid-ukraine-weapons-oversight-9285860.html

Edited by cactusflinthead
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SL Xpress

SL Xpress 7504

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Schulz2.0, I have it on good authority from the Russian Propaganda office that those AMX-10RCs are actually Leopard 2s and 500 of them have been destroyed in the Ukrainians massive counter offensive which has been decisively repulsed once and for all. 

On a completely different note, it's so fascinating to read about Subatai's conquests of the Russians and east Europeans relatively close to where the battles are taking place right now, and know that he mastered the ability to separate and attack in different elements across a front, then combine when exploiting a weakness with overwhelming force, centuries ago. 

Love what I'm reading about what the Ukrainians are doing so far. I've also been very gratified that we haven't seen or heard much regarding Russian air close combat support just yet. 

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