Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[atomheartbevo 89409]

 

Well, not surprising that Russia is upset...

[atomheartbevo 89409]

 

[SL Xpress 7505]

Nice article about the effectiveness of the Bradley's.

The 47th brigade is the group that was wiped out in that disastrous early foray through a Russian minefield that has since been paraded by Russian sources. 

I love the part where the guy snuck out of the hospital the day after checking in with a concussion, went to the battlefield, started up the Bradley, and drove it off. 

Ukrainian soldiers credit 'perfect' US-supplied Bradley vehicles (msn.com)

Spoiler

Ukrainian soldiers credit 'perfect' US-supplied Bradley vehicles

1h ago

 

As Ukrainian forces continue their counteroffensive against Russia, some soldiers say an American-supplied vehicle is making a key difference in their advances, and more importantly, saving lives.

The U.S. has provided has provided Ukrainian forces with Bradley Fighting Vehicles as part of aid packages since the beginning of the year and they have been heavily used in the counteroffensive Ukraine that launched in early June.

 

 

A Ukrainian serviceman of the 47th Magura Separate Mechanized Brigade drives a M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicle at a position near a front line, in Zaporizhzhia region, Ukraine, on June 26, 2023.© Serhii Nuzhnenko/Reuters

Two Ukrainian soldiers from the 47th brigade, Serhiy and Andriy, told ABC News that they and their crew wouldn't be alive today if Bradley didn't protect them from a battle early on in the counteroffensive where they were struck by mines, high caliber guns and attack drones.

"We were hit multiple times," Andriy, who drove one Bradley, said. "Thanks to it, I am standing here now. If we were using some Soviet armored personnel carrier we would all probably be dead after the first hit. It's a perfect vehicle."

MORE: Russia-Ukraine live updates

The Bradleys are armed with a 25mm automatic cannon, a 7.62mm machine gun, and a TOW missile system that can hit armored targets more than two miles away.

 

 

In this image posted to social media, a damaged Bradley infantry fighting vehicle is shown.© Ukraine Ministry of Defense

Andriy and Serhiy's brigade was part of one of the first major assaults using significant amounts of Western-supplied armored, launched against heavily fortified Russian lines in the Zaporizhzhia region in southern Ukraine at the start of June.

As they advanced towards the Russian positions, protected by dense minefields, the Ukrainian troops came almost immediately under heavy fire. The vehicle behind Andriy was struck by an attack drone, killing his unit's commander.

Andriy's Bradley was then hit first by a 120mm mortar. Two 150mm shells then struck both sides of the vehicle, he told ABC.

"Almost all of my guys were concussed, and they were really disoriented," he said. But the squad inside bailed out and managed to safely escape back to cover.

 

 

Ukrainian soldiers Sergiy and Andriy speak about a battle where they were in a Bradley vehicle.© ABC News

Russia's defense ministry released a widely video of a nearby area showing four Bradleys and one German Leopard 2A6 tanks damaged and abandoned after a different failed breaching assault by the 47th Brigade.

 

Ad

 

Serhiy, who drove a Bradley during yet another nearby assault, said Russian forces were very well prepared. Despite his vehicle also being badly hit, he said he and his team escaped major injuries while inside during the attack.

MORE: US to send Bradley Fighting Vehicles to Ukraine

"It's a very good car if you are inside. I've checked on myself and on my team. Only one guy had a concussion," he said.

Ukraine has so far lost at least 24 Bradleys, according to the Oryx open source website, that tracks Ukrainian and Russia equipment losses by visually confirming them in public available imagery.

Serhiy and Andriy said the Ukrainians were often able to recover many of the vehicles disabled in the attacks. One of their vehicles was recovered and used for parts that allowed the repair of two more Bradleys, they said.

Andriy was hospitalised for concussion, but a day later snuck out against his doctors advice, determined to recover his vehicle. He returned to the battlefield where the Bradley was still abandoned and discovering its engine was still functioning succeeded in driving it out.

He said, despite the difficulties in advancing he believed Ukraine's counteroffensive would be successful.

"I think in the near future we will succeed," he said.

"We'll find their weak spot," Serhiy said.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by SL Xpress

[Steel Shank 9413]

4 hours ago, MillerEP said:

 

Germany finding stuff to give to Ukraine is like me going through the fridge looking for something to eat.

[InkaUtexas 25497]

14 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

The northern half of Mozambique is apparently a shithole.  We rented a car in South Africa, and we could pay extra to go anywhere we wanted to go except for northern Mozambique.  That was a no go.  We could drive the car through high water in Botswana, with crocodiles and hippos on either side of the truck.  That was fine.  Going north in Mozambique was verboten.

My buddies working there run with some pretty serious security. DON'T go!  

[atomheartbevo 89409]

28 minutes ago, dimyh said:

Russia continues to push forward its tech advantage.

 

Apparently so

 

[conVINCEd 21468]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

My buddies working there run with some pretty serious security. DON'T go!  

Don’t plan on it.  We were looking at some of the islands as a tack on for a few days.  Just thought it was strange that they would allow me to do all kinds of crazy shit with the rented vehicle, but northern Mozambique was explicitly excluded.  I could’ve gone as far north as Kenya with little to no objection, as long as I avoided northern Mozambique.

[atomheartbevo 89409]

16 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

Nice article about the effectiveness of the Bradley's.

For an older machine, they seem to be doing pretty good. Not as old as the T-54s of course.

Weird seeing that camo pattern on them, they look high-tech

[atomheartbevo 89409]

Speaking of new-ish platforms, Polish tank in service with the Ukrainians.  Fixing a thrown track is one of the most miserable things you can do in the field.

 

[Deej 76543]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

Was there for a weekend when the kiddo was competing at State Science fair. Fuck that place. Had the damn Corp (America's Russian Army) guarding the stadium and not letting parents under it during a hail storm. What a bunch of Nedemyers. 

 

I would have guessed they'd have pulled their pants down and put their asses in the air in hopes of the biggest hailstones getting a direct hit on their asshole. 

[Macanudo 12925]

3 minutes ago, Deej said:

I would have guessed they'd have pulled their pants down and put their asses in the air in hopes of the biggest hailstones getting a direct hit on their asshole. 

Then it got weird.

[Rimbo 25773]

40 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

Nice article about the effectiveness of the Bradley's.

The 47th brigade is the group that was wiped out in that disastrous early foray through a Russian minefield that has since been paraded by Russian sources. 

I love the part where the guy snuck out of the hospital the day after checking in with a concussion, went to the battlefield, started up the Bradley, and drove it off. 

Ukrainian soldiers credit 'perfect' US-supplied Bradley vehicles (msn.com)

  Hide contents

Ukrainian soldiers credit 'perfect' US-supplied Bradley vehicles

1h ago

 

As Ukrainian forces continue their counteroffensive against Russia, some soldiers say an American-supplied vehicle is making a key difference in their advances, and more importantly, saving lives.

The U.S. has provided has provided Ukrainian forces with Bradley Fighting Vehicles as part of aid packages since the beginning of the year and they have been heavily used in the counteroffensive Ukraine that launched in early June.

 

 

A Ukrainian serviceman of the 47th Magura Separate Mechanized Brigade drives a M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicle at a position near a front line, in Zaporizhzhia region, Ukraine, on June 26, 2023.© Serhii Nuzhnenko/Reuters

Two Ukrainian soldiers from the 47th brigade, Serhiy and Andriy, told ABC News that they and their crew wouldn't be alive today if Bradley didn't protect them from a battle early on in the counteroffensive where they were struck by mines, high caliber guns and attack drones.

"We were hit multiple times," Andriy, who drove one Bradley, said. "Thanks to it, I am standing here now. If we were using some Soviet armored personnel carrier we would all probably be dead after the first hit. It's a perfect vehicle."

MORE: Russia-Ukraine live updates

The Bradleys are armed with a 25mm automatic cannon, a 7.62mm machine gun, and a TOW missile system that can hit armored targets more than two miles away.

 

 

In this image posted to social media, a damaged Bradley infantry fighting vehicle is shown.© Ukraine Ministry of Defense

Andriy and Serhiy's brigade was part of one of the first major assaults using significant amounts of Western-supplied armored, launched against heavily fortified Russian lines in the Zaporizhzhia region in southern Ukraine at the start of June.

As they advanced towards the Russian positions, protected by dense minefields, the Ukrainian troops came almost immediately under heavy fire. The vehicle behind Andriy was struck by an attack drone, killing his unit's commander.

Andriy's Bradley was then hit first by a 120mm mortar. Two 150mm shells then struck both sides of the vehicle, he told ABC.

"Almost all of my guys were concussed, and they were really disoriented," he said. But the squad inside bailed out and managed to safely escape back to cover.

 

 

Ukrainian soldiers Sergiy and Andriy speak about a battle where they were in a Bradley vehicle.© ABC News

Russia's defense ministry released a widely video of a nearby area showing four Bradleys and one German Leopard 2A6 tanks damaged and abandoned after a different failed breaching assault by the 47th Brigade.

 

Ad

 

Serhiy, who drove a Bradley during yet another nearby assault, said Russian forces were very well prepared. Despite his vehicle also being badly hit, he said he and his team escaped major injuries while inside during the attack.

MORE: US to send Bradley Fighting Vehicles to Ukraine

"It's a very good car if you are inside. I've checked on myself and on my team. Only one guy had a concussion," he said.

Ukraine has so far lost at least 24 Bradleys, according to the Oryx open source website, that tracks Ukrainian and Russia equipment losses by visually confirming them in public available imagery.

Serhiy and Andriy said the Ukrainians were often able to recover many of the vehicles disabled in the attacks. One of their vehicles was recovered and used for parts that allowed the repair of two more Bradleys, they said.

Andriy was hospitalised for concussion, but a day later snuck out against his doctors advice, determined to recover his vehicle. He returned to the battlefield where the Bradley was still abandoned and discovering its engine was still functioning succeeded in driving it out.

He said, despite the difficulties in advancing he believed Ukraine's counteroffensive would be successful.

"I think in the near future we will succeed," he said.

"We'll find their weak spot," Serhiy said.

 

[BrickHorn 18186]

5 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Seagal replacing Shogun would be the Chef's Blowjob

[MagicSoccerSpray 1725]

1 hour ago, SL Xpress said:

But I don't think you're presenting them well. Talking about Putin kidnapping children and sponsoring initiatives to increase birthrates while sending hundreds of thousands of men in their prime to their death, and chasing off hundreds of thousands of the most educated part of his work force to avoid being called up, either sounds like a man who isn't prioritizing demographics, or is prioritizing them with a really stupid strategy. 

 

I presented them fine. You don't think he assumed it would be a cakewalk and the Russians wouldn't suffer the amount of casualties they are? And now that they are suffering high casualties, a large proportion of them are "undesirables" such as ethnic non-Russians and criminals. Think like a Russian, they are crazy and don't always make sense.

 

 

[The Dog 43792]

[Gatorubet 30083]

2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

they aren’t asking Putin and the MOD to stop the war in Ukraine, they just want better equipment to allow their husbands to kill more Ukrainians. Fuck all of them. They are all fertilizer for sunflowers.

[Nivek 16852]

2 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

Nice article about the effectiveness of the Bradley's.

The 47th brigade is the group that was wiped out in that disastrous early foray through a Russian minefield that has since been paraded by Russian sources. 

I love the part where the guy snuck out of the hospital the day after checking in with a concussion, went to the battlefield, started up the Bradley, and drove it off. 

Ukrainian soldiers credit 'perfect' US-supplied Bradley vehicles (msn.com)

  Reveal hidden contents

Ukrainian soldiers credit 'perfect' US-supplied Bradley vehicles

1h ago

 

As Ukrainian forces continue their counteroffensive against Russia, some soldiers say an American-supplied vehicle is making a key difference in their advances, and more importantly, saving lives.

The U.S. has provided has provided Ukrainian forces with Bradley Fighting Vehicles as part of aid packages since the beginning of the year and they have been heavily used in the counteroffensive Ukraine that launched in early June.

 

 

A Ukrainian serviceman of the 47th Magura Separate Mechanized Brigade drives a M2 Bradley infantry fighting vehicle at a position near a front line, in Zaporizhzhia region, Ukraine, on June 26, 2023.© Serhii Nuzhnenko/Reuters

Two Ukrainian soldiers from the 47th brigade, Serhiy and Andriy, told ABC News that they and their crew wouldn't be alive today if Bradley didn't protect them from a battle early on in the counteroffensive where they were struck by mines, high caliber guns and attack drones.

"We were hit multiple times," Andriy, who drove one Bradley, said. "Thanks to it, I am standing here now. If we were using some Soviet armored personnel carrier we would all probably be dead after the first hit. It's a perfect vehicle."

MORE: Russia-Ukraine live updates

The Bradleys are armed with a 25mm automatic cannon, a 7.62mm machine gun, and a TOW missile system that can hit armored targets more than two miles away.

 

 

In this image posted to social media, a damaged Bradley infantry fighting vehicle is shown.© Ukraine Ministry of Defense

Andriy and Serhiy's brigade was part of one of the first major assaults using significant amounts of Western-supplied armored, launched against heavily fortified Russian lines in the Zaporizhzhia region in southern Ukraine at the start of June.

As they advanced towards the Russian positions, protected by dense minefields, the Ukrainian troops came almost immediately under heavy fire. The vehicle behind Andriy was struck by an attack drone, killing his unit's commander.

Andriy's Bradley was then hit first by a 120mm mortar. Two 150mm shells then struck both sides of the vehicle, he told ABC.

"Almost all of my guys were concussed, and they were really disoriented," he said. But the squad inside bailed out and managed to safely escape back to cover.

 

 

Ukrainian soldiers Sergiy and Andriy speak about a battle where they were in a Bradley vehicle.© ABC News

Russia's defense ministry released a widely video of a nearby area showing four Bradleys and one German Leopard 2A6 tanks damaged and abandoned after a different failed breaching assault by the 47th Brigade.

 

Ad

 

Serhiy, who drove a Bradley during yet another nearby assault, said Russian forces were very well prepared. Despite his vehicle also being badly hit, he said he and his team escaped major injuries while inside during the attack.

MORE: US to send Bradley Fighting Vehicles to Ukraine

"It's a very good car if you are inside. I've checked on myself and on my team. Only one guy had a concussion," he said.

Ukraine has so far lost at least 24 Bradleys, according to the Oryx open source website, that tracks Ukrainian and Russia equipment losses by visually confirming them in public available imagery.

Serhiy and Andriy said the Ukrainians were often able to recover many of the vehicles disabled in the attacks. One of their vehicles was recovered and used for parts that allowed the repair of two more Bradleys, they said.

Andriy was hospitalised for concussion, but a day later snuck out against his doctors advice, determined to recover his vehicle. He returned to the battlefield where the Bradley was still abandoned and discovering its engine was still functioning succeeded in driving it out.

He said, despite the difficulties in advancing he believed Ukraine's counteroffensive would be successful.

"I think in the near future we will succeed," he said.

"We'll find their weak spot," Serhiy said.

 

After the war, we really need to show them the Pentagon Papers movie about the development of the Bradley.  

[Nivek 16852]

12 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

they aren’t asking Putin and the MOD to stop the war in Ukraine, they just want better equipment to allow their husbands to kill more Ukrainians. Fuck all of them. They are all fertilizer for sunflowers.

Not gonna lie, if my future was to look in the eyes of those sea donkeys I would probably choose death by artillery or better yet, become a POW. 

[atomheartbevo 89409]

9 minutes ago, Nivek said:

After the war, we really need to show them the Pentagon Papers movie about the development of the Bradley.  

Pentagon Wars.  It's on HBO Max.

[Schulz2.0 28764]

 

[BamaATL 16592]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Pentagon Wars.  It's on HBO Max.

Favorite line:

"We should put portholes in it so the guys can shoot out of the vehicle"

[Trey3216 15325]

1 hour ago, BrickHorn said:

Precisely

[27-25 2040]

3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I give him a lot of credit for getting people to think about demographics.

Of course, I'm not really that sure that Putin is thinking about demographics in the long run, rather than greed and keeping his cronies happy and on a leash.  Xi for that matter as well - yeah, China is headed for some serious problems (and arguably has started them - the one-child policy combined with children expected to take care of their parents is causing problems as we speak).

With that said, China's men + Russian widows could solve both countries' problems.

If this is the outcome of the coupling, it won't solve much.

[flatdawgs 1256]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

My buddies working there run with some pretty serious security. DON'T go!  

Yeah, I have a bit of a soft spot for Moçambique (despite my Portuguese being not much more than passable), but no way I'd go north. Drove around the mountains of Lesotho, no worries. Fuck around north of Beira? Not finding out.

(Frankly, per an earlier comment, the West should give a damn about Mali, the CAR, the rest of Africa, and to a large extent Latin America, because not doing so just leaves it for China/Russia - who aren't necessarily popular - a Zambian friend told me they sure as hell knew what colonialism looked like a decade ago when the Chinese were buying up most of the mines in the Copper Belt - but sure as hell are throwing their weight around.)

[Parliament 14128]

30 minutes ago, Nivek said:

After the war, we really need to show them the Pentagon Papers movie about the development of the Bradley.  

To be fair, I think the original iterations were deathtraps?  Or am I a victim of propaganda?

ETA

Free on Youtoobs:

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Parliament

[BamaATL 16592]

2 minutes ago, Parliament said:

To be fair, I think the original iterations were deathtraps?  Or am I a victim of propaganda?

Crap, absolute crap.   The Israeli's refused them and then made their own modifications (if I remember correctly, it initially had unarmored fuel tanks on the outside of the vehicle).  It's a model story of how not to do something, and somehow, it turned ok, and as it turns out, just saved the lives of lots of Ukrainians.  A truly remarkable story, some really good reasons, lots of bad, and how that can collide.  

[Parliament 14128]

I presume we poured a buncha more of my tax dollars into that shitbox to make it good?  (NTTAWWT.  I'm rich.)

[InkaUtexas 25497]

12 minutes ago, flatdawgs said:

Yeah, I have a bit of a soft spot for Moçambique (despite my Portuguese being not much more than passable), but no way I'd go north. Drove around the mountains of Lesotho, no worries. Fuck around north of Beira? Not finding out.

(Frankly, per an earlier comment, the West should give a damn about Mali, the CAR, the rest of Africa, and to a large extent Latin America, because not doing so just leaves it for China/Russia - who aren't necessarily popular - a Zambian friend told me they sure as hell knew what colonialism looked like a decade ago when the Chinese were buying up most of the mines in the Copper Belt - but sure as hell are throwing their weight around.)

so all ya gotta say is Vase Foder! 

We got a team up in Bemba. Dudes don't move at all without coordination with the Rwandans. 

[BamaATL 16592]

5 minutes ago, Parliament said:

I presume we poured a buncha more of my tax dollars into that shitbox to make it good?  (NTTAWWT.  I'm rich.)

Again, without looking it up, from what I recall, the price tag was $15 billion in the mid 80s with just the first production run.  I have no idea what the combined cost of latter production runs combined with the price for actually fixing the initial production run was.  So just doing a bit of inflation math work, somewhere in the vicinity of $50 billion dollars in today's money.  

Mind you, this is all now entirely sunk cost.  What's done is done, and giving them to the Ukrainians likely save money, so load up more of em, I say.  

[flatdawgs 1256]

3 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

so all ya gotta say is Vase Foder! 

We got a team up in Bemba. Dudes don't move at all without coordination with the Rwandans. 

Lol! Vá se foder indeed, Wagner shits.

Pemba? Oh hell no. I've wanted to visit Ilha de Moçambique forever but shit was going down in the Nampula area as well, so that was right out.

And Priggy? Vai tomar no cu, filho da puta.

[Doc Sam Beckett 5782]

4 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Look, we're gonna send them the 10,000 shirts that A&M already has pre-printed "Aggie Football: 2023 SEC Champions" 

I'd say we're square. 

[Nivek 16852]

28 minutes ago, Parliament said:

To be fair, I think the original iterations were deathtraps?  Or am I a victim of propaganda?

ETA

Free on Youtoobs:

 

That's the one.  

[InkaUtexas 25497]

7 minutes ago, flatdawgs said:

Lol! Vá se foder indeed, Wagner shits.

Pemba? Oh hell no. I've wanted to visit Ilha de Moçambique forever but shit was going down in the Nampula area as well, so that was right out.

And Priggy? Vai tomar no cu, filho da puta.

If you want to still go out there I got a few Brit, SA, and Dutch friends working there. Crazy cats, but fun.  

Priggy me chupa los huevos! 

 

[flatdawgs 1256]

7 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

If you want to still go out there I got a few Brit, SA, and Dutch friends working there. Crazy cats, but fun.  

Priggy me chupa los huevos! 

 

Hoping to get down there again in the next year or so - sounds like my kind of people.

As always, this thread delivers. Hope to meet a lot of you in Kyiv one day soon, helping to clean up huylo Putin's mess.

[MalibuSheriff 1088]

Sorry if this has been posted before but I found it compelling understanding Priggy and his first cannonball run before running into US military:

Definitely read first hand account feom Wagner survivor.  The definition of fuck around and find out:

 

[Rimbo 25773]

49 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Again, without looking it up, from what I recall, the price tag was $15 billion in the mid 80s with just the first production run.  I have no idea what the combined cost of latter production runs combined with the price for actually fixing the initial production run was.  So just doing a bit of inflation math work, somewhere in the vicinity of $50 billion dollars in today's money.  

Mind you, this is all now entirely sunk cost.  What's done is done, and giving them to the Ukrainians likely save money, so load up more of em, I say.  

Yeah, when everyone was talking about how excited they were about sending AFU Bradleys and how great they'd be, all I could think of was... those things? Was unaware that this disastrous program had somehow ended up producing a legitimate piece of hardware in the end.

It's... kinda the anti-Duke-Nukem-Forever story.

[dimyh 1874]

40 minutes ago, MalibuSheriff said:

Sorry if this has been posted before but I found it compelling understanding Priggy and his first cannonball run before running into US military:

Definitely read first hand account feom Wagner survivor.  The definition of fuck around and find out:

 

 

So not only did Russian fuckery end up causing 200+ merc assholes to get slagged by American firepower but resulted in a longtime rift in leadership that culminated in a giant mutiny? Thanks Muscovite assholes!

 

 

 

[BamaATL 16592]

46 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Yeah, when everyone was talking about how excited they were about sending AFU Bradleys and how great they'd be, all I could think of was... those things? Was unaware that this disastrous program had somehow ended up producing a legitimate piece of hardware in the end.

It's... kinda the anti-Duke-Nukem-Forever story.

It's an interesting story to be sure.  It's sort of wild that a vehicle whose conception first began in the late 60s is seeing action 50 plus years later (against the enemy it was always intended for) and doing well.  Of course the initial failure is pretty well documented, but what isn't as well documented is the process of continual improvement after the fact.  Essentially, it went from being a Ford Pinto into more or less a Ford Taurus.  A shit mobile that would blow up on contact to a fairly reliable car.  I realize the salacious nature of it's initial production run will always grab more interest, but it would be neat to at least me if someone could put together the rest of the picture in a documentary.  

Another crazy aspect of the Bradley being involved against the Russians are some of the design parallels in how the Soviet Union did things.  The Soviets always did things on more or less a shoe string budget out of necessity, and as a result you sort of get swiss army products; jack of all trades, master of none sort of thing.  I'm doing this from memory, so I may have some of the sequencing wrong, but more or less the Bradley was conceived as a combination vehicle, with the thought in mind that you would save costs in doing so.  Initially, it was conceived as a troop carrier, but the army also wanted it to be able to be an effective scout vehicle as well; in addition to that there were to be several specialty variants like a medic version, mine clearer, etc.  One of the big problems was that in order to be a scout vehicle it had to be light, but in order to be a troop carrier it had to have extremely heavy armor.  They didn't want a tank, so it couldn't be that.  Essentially you had a lot of wants, but it was all in conflict, and that's how you arrive at the initial shit mobile.  If anything out the entire program should have been learned, it's that the idea of have swiss army style products a neat idea, but the reality is design specific equipment is simply that, and should be designed to meet those requirements first.  If it can do more, great, but first and foremost is mission specific tasks.  The general hope is that we've learned this lesson, but it would seem only to a degree.  The F-35 may well be the latest albeit it still pretty great shit mobile because they once again attempted to make it a jack of all trades.  

[BamaATL 16592]

27 minutes ago, dimyh said:

 

So not only did Russian fuckery end up causing 200+ merc assholes to get slagged by American firepower but resulted in a longtime rift in leadership that culminated in a giant mutiny? Thanks Muscovite assholes!

 

 

 

It might be worse than that, I read speculation that Putin was involved in the decision making if for no other reason to see how the Wagner guys would actually do against U.S. units.  Considering that many of them were melted alive, it didn't go well.  

[atomheartbevo 89409]

19 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

but more or less the Bradley was conceived as a combination vehicle, with the thought in mind that you would save costs in doing so.  Initially, it was conceived as a troop carrier, but the army also wanted it to be able to be an effective scout vehicle as well; in addition to that there were to be several specialty variants like a medic version, mine clearer, etc.  One of the big problems was that in order to be a scout vehicle it had to be light, but in order to be a troop carrier it had to have extremely heavy armor.  They didn't want a tank, so it couldn't be that.  Essentially you had a lot of wants, but it was all in conflict, and that's how you arrive at the initial shit mobile.  If anything out the entire program should have been learned, it's that the idea of have swiss army style products a neat idea, but the reality is design specific equipment is simply that, and should be designed to meet those requirements first.  If it can do more, great, but first and foremost is mission specific tasks.  The general hope is that we've learned this lesson, but it would seem only to a degree.  The F-35 may well be the latest albeit it still pretty great shit mobile because they once again attempted to make it a jack of all trades.  

Interesting fact, M109 Paladins, our self-propelled guns, are based on the Bradley chassis/drivetrain/tracks which makes it easy for parts and meant that by the time we started sending Bradleys into Ukraine, they had at least some mechanics experienced with critical components.

Also, if you want to go down a Wikipedia rabbit hole, back in the late 80s/early 90s, the Army actually wanted to try and standardize on two armored chassis, one heavy, one medium, with the two replacing all of the major armored systems (from the Abrams to the M109 to the Bradley and other vehicles).  The heavy was going to be used for a new tank, a new self-propelled gun, a breaching vehicle (big blades on the front, etc.), and an infantry fighting vehicle.  The light chassis was going to be used for anti-tank systems (TOWs) and for supply vehicles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_Systems_Modernization

Fall of the Soviet Union ultimately ended it (probably  not helped that the Gulf War showed our existing hardware was pretty badass).

[MalibuSheriff 1088]

36 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

It might be worse than that, I read speculation that Putin was involved in the decision making if for no other reason to see how the Wagner guys would actually do against U.S. units.  Considering that many of them were melted alive, it didn't go well.  

More information on the ‘Battle of Conoco Fields’:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham

I remember when the above happened but didn’t understand the severity of the complete ass kicking:

[atomheartbevo 89409]

Interesting about the units - that Wagner "5 Storm Unit" was the bulk of the casualties.

Units involved
YPG  United States Armed Forces U.S. Army[6] 1st SFOD-D United States Army Special Forces 75th Ranger Regiment 101st Airborne Division U.S. Marines[6] U.S. Air Force[7]	Syrian government forces 4th Division[2] ISIS Hunters[8][9] National Defense Forces Baqir Brigade[2] Wagner Group[10][3] 5 Storm Unit

Strength
40 American troops[6]	500 Syrian and Russian troop

Russians didn't know how to spin it, and also some confusion about whether active-duty Russian soldiers were involved (they had to be):

On 14 February, presidential spokesperson Dmitry Peskov admitted the possibility that some Russian citizens who were not part of Russia's armed forces were in Syria, but dismissed reports of mass casualties as false.[80] The following day, the Russian foreign ministry's spokesperson Maria Zakharova conceded that five Russian citizens might have been killed in the U.S. attack; she emphasized that they were not members of the Russian Armed Forces.[81][82]

State Duma Defense Committee Chairman Vladimir Shamanov, citing reported casualties of Russian PMCs, said the Russian parliament was working on a bill that would regulate activities of private military contractors, which he said was necessary.[83][84]

On 16 February, Viktor Alksnis said that the preliminary figure of Russian fatalities in the strike, based on information from the relatives and friends, stood at 334, mainly the personnel of the 5th storm squadron; he also said that, according to his information, personnel of Russia's Special Operations Forces were also involved in "the raid" on 7 February. This was in contrast to CIT's earlier confirmation by name of no more than eight dead.[85] On the same day, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in a Euronews channel interview said, "[The United States] seem to be seeking to isolate a vast part of the Syrian territory from the rest of the country in violation of Syria's sovereignty and territorial integrity."[86][87] According to an insider source quoted on 19 February by Vedomosti, there were 50 citizens of Russia and Ukraine dead as a result of the U.S. strike.[88][89]

On 20 February 2018, the Russian foreign ministry released a statement which, while admitting that there had been citizens of Russia and "countries of the CIS" killed and wounded in the course of the "recent clash" in Syria, claimed that no Russian service members or their materiel had been involved in any way.[90][91] Following the statement, the foreign ministries of Belarus and Kazakhstan were reported to be checking if there were casualties among their countries' citizens, but stated they had no information to confirm that Belarusians or Kazakhstanis had been killed or wounded.[92]

In late February 2018, CNN quoted multiple Russian sources claiming that those seeking to publicise information about the casualties in the 7 February strike were being harassed and silenced, presumably by people loyal to Yevgeny Prigozhin.[93]

[Rimbo 25773]

 

[MagicSoccerSpray 1725]

5 hours ago, Nivek said:

After the war, we really need to show them the Pentagon Papers movie about the development of the Bradley.  

 

4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Pentagon Wars.  It's on HBO Max.

 

4 hours ago, BamaATL said:

Favorite line:

"We should put portholes in it so the guys can shoot out of the vehicle"

 

4 hours ago, Parliament said:

To be fair, I think the original iterations were deathtraps?  Or am I a victim of propaganda?

ETA

Free on Youtoobs:

 

 

4 hours ago, BamaATL said:

Crap, absolute crap.   The Israeli's refused them and then made their own modifications (if I remember correctly, it initially had unarmored fuel tanks on the outside of the vehicle).  It's a model story of how not to do something, and somehow, it turned ok, and as it turns out, just saved the lives of lots of Ukrainians.  A truly remarkable story, some really good reasons, lots of bad, and how that can collide.  

The Bradley was a success and always was. As funny and entertaining as Pentagon Wars was, it was nothing more than an exercise in cynical post modern mental masturbation contrarianism. Lazer Pig, a youtuber who works in UK defense analysis, has a funny video about the Pentagon Wars book writer, James Burton. Start at 8:03:

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by MagicSoccerSpray

[SL Xpress 7505]

Zaluzhnyi rightfully annoyed about Western criticism of the speed of the counter offensive:

""It annoys me," Zaluzhnyi told The Washington Post that partners say Ukraine's counteroffensive in the east and south has started more slowly than they expected. According to the commander-in-chief, Ukrainian troops reach a certain position every day - even if it is only 500 meters. “It's not a show that the whole world watches and bets on or anything like that. Every day, every meter is given with blood." Zaluzhny adds that in order for Ukraine's counteroffensive to proceed faster, more weapons of various types are needed. "Without full supply, these plans are not possible at all. But they are carried out. Yes, maybe not as quickly as the participants of the show, the observers, would like, but these are their problems," says Zaluzhnyi in an interview."

[SL Xpress 7505]

As an aside, I see people getting excited about the use of ATACMS to take out the Kerch bridge, and rightfully so, but that's target B for me. I want to see them used to take out the airfields in Berdyansk and Crimea. 

If Russia can be pushed back to operate their air power deep inside their own country, it changes the dynamics of the battlefield for this counter offensive dramatically. Russia has terrible air refueling capability. 

And on that note, a fuel depot was apparently hit in Berdyansk this morning:

 

[Chad Fuck 17557]

Farmer: Eat a carrot dick, traitor.

Segal: Don’t mind if I do!

[SL Xpress 7505]

Here's some cheerful news about Russia pulling personnel out of the nuclear power plant. I wonder why?

"The Russians are reducing their presence at #Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, Ukraine’s Main Intelligence Directorate reports. The Russian representatives of #Rosatom have already left, and Ukrainian employees of the plant who signed contracts with Rosatom are being advised to evacuate by July 5. Meanwhile, the number of military patrols in #Enerhodar is gradually decreasing."

Another article from the Kyiv Independent. No less cheery!

Military intelligence: Russian occupation forces 'gradually leaving' Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant (kyivindependent.com)

Spoiler

Russian occupation forces stationed at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant are "gradually leaving" the premises amid the rising threat of Russia's sabotage attack, Ukraine's military intelligence reported on June 30.

Among the first to leave the station were three officials from Russia's state-owned nuclear company Rosatom, who had managed Russian-installed personnel at the plant, reads the report.

Ukrainian employees who previously signed a contract with Rosatom were advised to evacuate before July 5, while the personnel remaining at the station were instructed to "blame Ukraine in case of any emergencies," the Ukrainian intelligence agency wrote.

As of today, the head of the plant's legal department, the chief inspector, and the deputy in charge of the plant's supplies are known to have evacuated to Russian-occupied Crimea.

The number of Russian military patrols is also decreasing in the city of Enerhodar, which hosts the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant.

On June 23, Ukraine's military intelligence head Kyrylo Budanov told the New Stateman that Russia had completed preparations for an attack on the nuclear power plant, mined the plant's cooler, and placed the equipment loaded with explosives near four of the six power units.

According to the Institute for the Study of War, Russia may be signaling its readiness to sabotage the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant to prevent a Ukrainian counteroffensive in the area.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by SL Xpress

[Captainant 27442]

34 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

As an aside, I see people getting excited about the use of ATACMS to take out the Kerch bridge, and rightfully so, but that's target B for me. I want to see them used to take out the airfields in Berdyansk and Crimea. 

If Russia can be pushed back to operate their air power deep inside their own country, it changes the dynamics of the battlefield for this counter offensive dramatically. Russia has terrible air refueling capability. 

And on that note, a fuel depot was apparently hit in Berdyansk this morning:

 

Half the benefit of having ATACMS in Ukraine is that even if they don't shoot them, they have the "fleet in being" effect where it materially shifts your enemy strategic posture to be more favorable to you. Just the threat of a long-range tactical missile will further push the front line more and more towards russia and force them into more difficult decisions

[InkaUtexas 25497]

9 hours ago, flatdawgs said:

Hoping to get down there again in the next year or so - sounds like my kind of people.

As always, this thread delivers. Hope to meet a lot of you in Kyiv one day soon, helping to clean up huylo Putin's mess.

Fuck yeah, DM me if heading over and will link you up with my brother in Kenya.