Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[Schulz2.0 29318]

[RDCanecutter 26993]

12 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

question for real and armchair military tacticians 

How does own deal with the Surovikin line? I’m assuming it’s mined out the ass. Do you just launch a shit ton of artillery at the place you want to go through? 

Happy to say I never had to learn how to get through a minefield.

When I joined we were still about defending against a massive Soviet tank army, so we played around with how to set up different mines of our own. Then we switched to colonial policing and bandit hunting.

I do remember that if you lay out mines or other obstacles, doctrine is to cover them with fire or otherwise they won't stop anything. So maybe the key there is to suppress Russian firepower to the point where sappers can cut some lanes?

Don't ask me I was too busy swapping MREs to get the hated Pork Patty so I could get them to kick in extra candy.

[Braff Zacklin 13677]

23 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

How does own deal with the Surovikin line?

With one giant got dammed eraser.

[Rimbo 27263]

3 hours ago, Viper said:

 

 

Ho-lee-shit.

I've been to Oklahoma. I've been all over Florida. I've even seen the deepest, darkest, banjo-playing parts of Western Pennsylvania.

I ain't never seen anything so redneck white trash as Russia.

[Post Oak 20595]

When I was about 5 I got my little brother to drink some of dads cologne.  We had to call poison control then I had to deal with some rather overly harsh consequences.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11865]

9 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

When I was about 5 I got my little brother to drink some of dads cologne.  We had to call poison control then I had to deal with some rather overly harsh consequences.

My brother and I cut a small piece of shoelace and stuffed it down the small hole in my dad’s bottle of English Leather to make a homemade lantern.  Worked pretty good until when we put it out, the charred piece of shoelace fell into the bottle and we couldn’t get it back out.  Had a hard time explaining that one to him.  

[Rimbo 27263]

16 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

When I was about 5 I got my little brother to drink some of dads cologne.  We had to call poison control then I had to deal with some rather overly harsh consequences.

I'm wondering what you consider "overly" harsh for tryin' to poison your brother. Though I guess if you're only 5, you probably didn't know any better...

[Scheiss Meister 8482]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

question for real and armchair military tacticians 

How does own deal with the Surovikin line? I’m assuming it’s mined out the ass. Do you just launch a shit ton of artillery at the place you want to go through? 

I was trained that minefields are laid to optimize the manpower needs of a defensive line.  Mines should be used to funnel enemy forces to locations that give you a geographic or firepower advantage.  You have to provide cover fire  all along the line to discourage and prevent sappers from removing the mines and making lanes through the minefield, like @RDCanecutter said, but it doesn't really take a lot of firepower to cover a minefield.  Then you can concentrate more of your forces in the rear to respond to serious problems within the minefields or, if the minefields are set up correctly, bring concentrated fire on the areas to which the mines channel enemy forces.  Done correctly you can force the enemy to come on in column so that they can only attack on a narrow front.  This will let you put more firepower on them than they can bring on you, and allow you to defeat them in detail.  Kind of like "crossing the T" in naval warfare.

Infantry on the defense love mines.  Infantry on the attack despise them.

ETA - And I just realized that I didn't answer your question.  You defeat a line like that by finding the weakest points in the minefields, concentrating suppressive fires there, usually a combination of infantry and artillery, and letting your sappers clear lanes through the mines through which you attack.  You are still attacking through funnels (the cleared lanes) but you are picking the location of the attack.  It's bloody, slow, and dangerous work, but that's the business.  Read about the Battle of El Alamein to get a good idea of mine warfare.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Scheiss Meister

[Kwix 2497]

31 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

My brother and I cut a small piece of shoelace and stuffed it down the small hole in my dad’s bottle of English Leather to make a homemade lantern.  Worked pretty good until when we put it out, the charred piece of shoelace fell into the bottle and we couldn’t get it back out.  Had a hard time explaining that one to him.  

If my kid pulled this I think I'd be more impressed than upset. 

[Mantis Toboggan, MD 1520]

I was trained that minefields are laid to optimize the manpower needs of a defensive line.  Mines should be used to funnel enemy forces to locations that give you a geographic or firepower advantage.  You have to provide cover fire  all along the line to discourage and prevent sappers from removing the mines and making lanes through the minefield, like [mention=281]RDCanecutter[/mention] said, but it doesn't really take a lot of firepower to cover a minefield.  Then you can concentrate more of your forces in the rear to respond to serious problems within the minefields or, if the minefields are set up correctly, bring concentrated fire on the areas to which the mines channel enemy forces.  Done correctly you can force the enemy to come on in column so that they can only attack on a narrow front.  This will let you put more firepower on them than they can bring on you, and allow you to defeat them in detail.  Kind of like "crossing the T" in naval warfare.
Infantry on the defense love mines.  Infantry on the attack despise them.
ETA - And I just realized that I didn't answer your question.  You defeat a line like that by finding the weakest points in the minefields, concentrating suppressive fires there, usually a combination of infantry and artillery, and letting your sappers clear lanes through the mines through which you attack.  You are still attacking through funnels (the cleared lanes) but you are picking the location of the attack.  It's bloody, slow, and dangerous work, but that's the business.  Read about the Battle of El Alamein to get a good idea of mine warfare.

Similar tactics to Jon Taffer’s “butt funnel”

[Schulz2.0 29318]

Long post from a guy at the Robotyne-Tokmak axis.

 

[Schulz2.0 29318]

 

 

 

[Schulz2.0 29318]

 

 

[Parliament 14644]

How far are they from putting the Kerch Bridge inside missile range? Quite a ways yet?

[BamaATL 16593]

4 minutes ago, Parliament said:

How far are they from putting the Kerch Bridge inside missile range? Quite a ways yet?

The deep state map has Robotyne somewhere around 250km (some parts might be closer to 230km).  In any event, the HIMARS work up to 190km, so in order for that platform to work they need to advice 40 to 60km.  The Storm Shadow has a range of approximately 300km, with a few caveats, including being it is air launched, and in order to safely launch the weapon they are generally going to keep the air frame away from SAM batteries.  I don't know the exact effective range of the S300 or S400, but I'm betting at least 50km.  

If my math is correct, they are very close on potentially being able to safely launch Storm Shadows.  However, while the have made significant inroads towards Tokmak, I don't know if they have cleared enough air defense to realistically do this.  The swath of land they have taken is only part of that equation, for now its somewhat narrow.  

The good news, they are very close to having just about everything in southern Ukraine within HIMARS range, save Crimea.  The ability to cut land supply will certainly help.  

[Bevo 13957]

3 hours ago, Scheiss Meister said:

I was trained that minefields are laid to optimize the manpower needs of a defensive line.  Mines should be used to funnel enemy forces to locations that give you a geographic or firepower advantage.  You have to provide cover fire  all along the line to discourage and prevent sappers from removing the mines and making lanes through the minefield, like @RDCanecutter said, but it doesn't really take a lot of firepower to cover a minefield.  Then you can concentrate more of your forces in the rear to respond to serious problems within the minefields or, if the minefields are set up correctly, bring concentrated fire on the areas to which the mines channel enemy forces.  Done correctly you can force the enemy to come on in column so that they can only attack on a narrow front.  This will let you put more firepower on them than they can bring on you, and allow you to defeat them in detail.  Kind of like "crossing the T" in naval warfare.

Infantry on the defense love mines.  Infantry on the attack despise them.

ETA - And I just realized that I didn't answer your question.  You defeat a line like that by finding the weakest points in the minefields, concentrating suppressive fires there, usually a combination of infantry and artillery, and letting your sappers clear lanes through the mines through which you attack.  You are still attacking through funnels (the cleared lanes) but you are picking the location of the attack.  It's bloody, slow, and dangerous work, but that's the business.  Read about the Battle of El Alamein to get a good idea of mine warfare.

Seems like you could run a bunch of cheap buggy drones through the minefield to clear them. 

[BamaATL 16593]

5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Seems like you could run a bunch of cheap buggy drones through the minefield to clear them. 

Unfortunately, you would need a shit load of buggies for it to work.  The mines the Russian's are using (mostly) at TM-62's (the Ukrainians also use these), and regrettably, they are the most produced mine in human history.  The Russians, with fore knowledge of playing defense, have deployed an insane amount of these (they have actually have mine laying machines they use).  

I have a odd but perhaps effective way of dealing with these after the fact that I was sort of daydreaming about the other day.  Basically, if you take a blimp (it would need to be quite large to displace the weight, and car demolition electro-magnet, and fit around that a blast shield, that might work.   I don't know I'm not an expert, but just thinking about what a massive problem this is going to be not just in the conflict but after.  Considering that there may well be millions of these in play, one to one specialty equipment isn't going to realistically get the job done.  Obviously we demining equipment, but if we could figure another way to more safely remove and detonate these it'd be great.  

Maybe a crazy idea, but someone is going to need to come up with ideas to deal with this, it's a massive problem.  

[InkaUtexas 27084]

This is funny. 

 

[Parliament 14644]

16 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Unfortunately, you would need a shit load of buggies for it to work.  The mines the Russian's are using (mostly) at TM-62's (the Ukrainians also use these), and regrettably, they are the most produced mine in human history.  The Russians, with fore knowledge of playing defense, have deployed an insane amount of these (they have actually have mine laying machines they use).  

I have a odd but perhaps effective way of dealing with these after the fact that I was sort of daydreaming about the other day.  Basically, if you take a blimp (it would need to be quite large to displace the weight, and car demolition electro-magnet, and fit around that a blast shield, that might work.   I don't know I'm not an expert, but just thinking about what a massive problem this is going to be not just in the conflict but after.  Considering that there may well be millions of these in play, one to one specialty equipment isn't going to realistically get the job done.  Obviously we demining equipment, but if we could figure another way to more safely remove and detonate these it'd be great.  

Maybe a crazy idea, but someone is going to need to come up with ideas to deal with this, it's a massive problem.  

Trained monkeys with hammers.  They'll die as heros.

[Gatorubet 30845]

3 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Trained monkeys with hammers.  They'll die as heros.

So you were saying that this is the moment that the Corp of Cadets has been dreaming of forever?

[InkaUtexas 27084]

Fucking amazing! Again hope they really pulled off. 

 

[Sawbonz 28271]

12 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

I don’t get why y’all are so excited about her. From what I’ve seen, she doesn’t look that hot.

But honestly, I think the Prime Minister of Estonia is blurry. That’s the problem. 

Helobious’d 

[BamaATL 16593]

2 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Trained monkeys with hammers.  They'll die as heros.

I was trying to do something automated, so as to save human life, and I suppose now I also need to add to that your army of monkeys.  Now the flying monkeys from Oz, that would just be fucking cool, so I'm on board with that.

The other aspect is that these mines have a pressure trigger at about 150lbs, so force is a factor to detonate them.  Basically, you can't just send out some light weight crap thrown together and hope to clear these.  Basically, it's a fucking nightmare, not just now but for the foreseeable future in the country.   I suppose that is what bothers me about it so much, is that years from now, kids playing, just normal stuff, could wind up detonating these things and getting maimed or killed.  I just hope someone smarter than me (of which there is plenty of that) has a great idea on how to deal with this problem quickly and effectively.  

 

[cactusflinthead 27631]

29 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

This is funny. 

 

Talk to the stick. Stupid fuckers 

[Pato del Muerto 53641]

“We have been building a spacecraft for billions of dollars to properly fuck up the moon”

[Nivek 17464]

question for real and armchair military tacticians 
How does own deal with the Surovikin line? I’m assuming it’s mined out the ass. Do you just launch a shit ton of artillery at the place you want to go through? 

You get a bunch of shitty cars and some bricks and then point them at the mine field…. And fill them with Russian pows.

[InkaUtexas 27084]

8 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

“We have been building a spacecraft for billions of dollars to properly fuck up the moon”

That one got me as well. 

[Bevo 13957]

20 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I was trying to do something automated, so as to save human life, and I suppose now I also need to add to that your army of monkeys.  Now the flying monkeys from Oz, that would just be fucking cool, so I'm on board with that.

The other aspect is that these mines have a pressure trigger at about 150lbs, so force is a factor to detonate them.  Basically, you can't just send out some light weight crap thrown together and hope to clear these.  Basically, it's a fucking nightmare, not just now but for the foreseeable future in the country.   I suppose that is what bothers me about it so much, is that years from now, kids playing, just normal stuff, could wind up detonating these things and getting maimed or killed.  I just hope someone smarter than me (of which there is plenty of that) has a great idea on how to deal with this problem quickly and effectively.  

 

Does burning the field work?

[atomheartbevo 90757]

3 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Long post from a guy at the Robotyne-Tokmak axis.

Holy shit you weren't kidding

-----------

Much has been written about the battles in the South. I wouldn't say that this is the case where it's better to see once (or multiple times) than to hear/read about it many times. Especially through the eyes of the frontline units. A thread about battles from the perspective of aerial reconnaissance: Environment. Steppe. Fields, tree lines. Slight elevations and dips, villages, small rivers. Minefields.

Whoever you may be, an armored assault group, evacuation team, aerial or infantry reconnaissance, your movement is visible from afar. The enemy has long been preparing. Equipment and personnel can be spotted from a distance and targeted.

Both sides understand that there are limited places for positions and deployment. Most likely, there's something to shoot at in almost every tree line. Confirmation is needed, of course. Primarily, it's necessary to determine the priority of the target There's a limited number of access roads, logistical routes. Everything's been calibrated and fired upon repeatedly every day. You certainly can be spotted.

Carrying out the mission while maintaining complete concealment from the enemy is mostly impossible There has been a great deal of talk about fortifications and minefields. Every tree line has been dug up. On one stretch of the Mariupol highway, anti-tank fortifications have been installed. We're not just talking about trenches. There's an entire system of trenches, dugouts, and even undeground tunnels in some places

 

 

 

In each tree line, there's a network of trenches and firing positions for various weapons. AGS, DShK, ATGMs. Anti-tank ditches and mine obstacles stretch across the fields. From regular TM and POM mines to more "sophisticated" ones, all lying in wait for infantry. Once again, it's crucial to emphasize that we're specifically discussing a system of trenches, interconnected by passageways and pathways. These pathways facilitate the movement of personnel, weaponry, and ammunition. As for what remains unexcavated, it's mined. All of this must be navigated to make progress forward.

 

 

For those who are "overly smart" and believe that the Ukrainian Armed Forces took an incredibly long time to drive the Russians out of the village of Robotyne, they must have missed the defense system that needed to be overcome in order to push the russians away from the Mariupol highway and gradually approach the village, encircle it, and finally seize control. Truly, a monumental task has been accomplished.

 

 

The russians are establishing firing points (AGS, heavy machine guns), and they mine the routes to them. They themselves move along designated paths. Our positions in the liberated territory are surrounded by mines and tripwires. Paths are cleared for ingress, and sappers gradually clear the area.

Frequently, the hidden "surprises" detonate during shelling, triggered by fires that start due to the shelling (weeds, shrubs, and trees catch fire, setting off tripwires). At times, we ourselves discover and call in sappers to clear specific areas.

There's much talk about armored vehicle losses, but the issue of initial setbacks is overlooked. In the long run, it's impossible to entirely avoid armor losses, even due to the enemy's advantage in the air. However, armor serves a specific purpose that entails risks. These actions are justified by the fact that they save lives. I spoke with a soldier who survived two direct hits on a Bradley during shelling. Even the most critically damaged equipment is recovered and taken for repairs.

You can replace a piece of metal, even if it's expensive, but you can't repair a human life. Enemy ATGM operators position cameras in advance of their positions. This way, they can spot targets (all types of vehicles) in advance and engage them effectively. If successful, artillery finishes off the targets. Alternatively, they might start with air force, followed by artillery.

They hunt for evacuation teams – both vehicles and stations. Right under our noses, they hit an armored vehicle, and an evacuation vehicle arrived for the guys. They had to maneuver in a tight spot, moving very slowly on a narrow road, avoiding going off-road into a mined field. Taking risks as well. Fortunately, they managed to get them out. KAB's are one of the biggest fears. The russians use them extensively. I can't speak to their accuracy, but the weaponry is powerful. They attempt to target logistics and command centers, just as we do. They don't hesitate to simply fire on roads.

Forward defenses in settlements are constantly under shelling. The aerial reconnaissance linked system Orlan-Zala-Supercam is effective and causing issues. They identify targets and launch Lances, releasing them in swarms along with KAB's. They attempt to break through and hunt down vehicles. The recaptured positions are even more calibrated. Bombs are not spared. No lack of mines either. The tree line where one of the crews was operating was simply leveled. Only a palisade remained, and a well-made trench ceased to be usable.

The russians use a standard tactic for their armor. The route to the firing position is determined, usually in a way that keeps the vehicles under visual cover of the tree lines and eventually positions them in an open space for shooting. They quickly expend their ammunition and retreat Vehicle cannot be completely concealed. Dust clouds are visible during movement, and the vehicles can be seen shifting between tree lines, while drones provide visibility as well.

The main task here is to execute the firing mission quickly enough to prevent artillery targeting or counterattacks using FPV or ATGMs. I understand why the russians are intensively butthurt due to the loss of the village with six streets. They put in significant effort to prevent the Ukrainian Armed Forces from advancing. Defending is easier according to all norms.

On the other hand, we're putting in a tremendous effort to break through. And when we succeed, it shows that our efforts are paying off

Thank you for your attention. I might continue sharing in the future. Meanwhile, I invite you to follow on Facebook and TG (Telegram): https://facebook.com/osolonko https://t.me/silukr/122 Postscript: The original thread can be found here: https://twitter.com/solonko1648/status/1695525388670095804… If you're interested in updates, I highly recommend following him. Translation by

@Tatarigami_UA

[BamaATL 16593]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

Does burning the field work?

I don't know the answer to that to be honest.  I know that we have seen them set off in ammunition fires, but as to whether or not that is a higher temperature than an ordinary fire (which I would assume is so) and if that matters I don't know.  

[atomheartbevo 90757]

1 hour ago, BamaATL said:

The good news, they are very close to having just about everything in southern Ukraine within HIMARS range, save Crimea.  The ability to cut land supply will certainly help.  

Yep.  When  they take Tokmak (40 miles south of Robotyne) and if they can get a 5-10 mile buffer of sorts, they will have Melitopol's road and railways under HIMARS fire (although it'll be dangerous for HIMARS given the drones).  At that point, Crimea will be cut off by land.

Of course, if they get that close, they have a real chance at Ukrainian special operations folks doing direct action missions on said roads/railways/bridges, not to mention that those railways/bridges will be within the ranges of the larger drones.  Imagine the Russians trying to cover just a 30-40 mile stretch of road/rail that is supplying Crimea out of Melitopol.  No way they can effectively do it.  We'll have videos of drones hitting supply trucks and train engines.

[NorthLoop 14610]

21 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

“We have been building a spacecraft for billions of dollars to properly fuck up the moon”

 

13 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

That one got me as well. 

Obligatory

 

 

[InkaUtexas 27084]

I have never seen them go off in fires. Afghanistan, El Salvador, Colombia, Bosnia or Peru. 

What will blow them up over time is snow and shifting soil. The mountains around Sarajevo would have explosions for days after a heavy snow. 

For large area demining there is equipment to lead the way forward, but they are vulnerable. For long term, takes people and dogs. Nasty work. 

[FartingMonk 3630]

7 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I don't know the answer to that to be honest.  I know that we have seen them set off in ammunition fires, but as to whether or not that is a higher temperature than an ordinary fire (which I would assume is so) and if that matters I don't know.  

You probably could if it burns intense enough to render it's mechanisms useless, but dropping bombs on an open field would probably work.  Or just send in the minesweepers after it's done.  The problem with mines in previous wars was little record of it being mined.  We know where every area that was mined in Ukraine.  So mine sweepers going in afterwards would probably do the trick

[Pato del Muerto 53641]

I wonder if using the wildland fire planes and copters to throw large volumes of water at the ground from height could trigger them.  Is there potential for chain reactions?

scoop up from dnipro, drop, water either vaporizes or makes its way back into the dnipro?

[BamaATL 16593]

12 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Holy shit you weren't kidding

-----------

Much has been written about the battles in the South. I wouldn't say that this is the case where it's better to see once (or multiple times) than to hear/read about it many times. Especially through the eyes of the frontline units. A thread about battles from the perspective of aerial reconnaissance: Environment. Steppe. Fields, tree lines. Slight elevations and dips, villages, small rivers. Minefields.

Whoever you may be, an armored assault group, evacuation team, aerial or infantry reconnaissance, your movement is visible from afar. The enemy has long been preparing. Equipment and personnel can be spotted from a distance and targeted.

Both sides understand that there are limited places for positions and deployment. Most likely, there's something to shoot at in almost every tree line. Confirmation is needed, of course. Primarily, it's necessary to determine the priority of the target There's a limited number of access roads, logistical routes. Everything's been calibrated and fired upon repeatedly every day. You certainly can be spotted.

Carrying out the mission while maintaining complete concealment from the enemy is mostly impossible There has been a great deal of talk about fortifications and minefields. Every tree line has been dug up. On one stretch of the Mariupol highway, anti-tank fortifications have been installed. We're not just talking about trenches. There's an entire system of trenches, dugouts, and even undeground tunnels in some places

 

 

 

In each tree line, there's a network of trenches and firing positions for various weapons. AGS, DShK, ATGMs. Anti-tank ditches and mine obstacles stretch across the fields. From regular TM and POM mines to more "sophisticated" ones, all lying in wait for infantry. Once again, it's crucial to emphasize that we're specifically discussing a system of trenches, interconnected by passageways and pathways. These pathways facilitate the movement of personnel, weaponry, and ammunition. As for what remains unexcavated, it's mined. All of this must be navigated to make progress forward.

 

 

For those who are "overly smart" and believe that the Ukrainian Armed Forces took an incredibly long time to drive the Russians out of the village of Robotyne, they must have missed the defense system that needed to be overcome in order to push the russians away from the Mariupol highway and gradually approach the village, encircle it, and finally seize control. Truly, a monumental task has been accomplished.

 

 

The russians are establishing firing points (AGS, heavy machine guns), and they mine the routes to them. They themselves move along designated paths. Our positions in the liberated territory are surrounded by mines and tripwires. Paths are cleared for ingress, and sappers gradually clear the area.

Frequently, the hidden "surprises" detonate during shelling, triggered by fires that start due to the shelling (weeds, shrubs, and trees catch fire, setting off tripwires). At times, we ourselves discover and call in sappers to clear specific areas.

There's much talk about armored vehicle losses, but the issue of initial setbacks is overlooked. In the long run, it's impossible to entirely avoid armor losses, even due to the enemy's advantage in the air. However, armor serves a specific purpose that entails risks. These actions are justified by the fact that they save lives. I spoke with a soldier who survived two direct hits on a Bradley during shelling. Even the most critically damaged equipment is recovered and taken for repairs.

You can replace a piece of metal, even if it's expensive, but you can't repair a human life. Enemy ATGM operators position cameras in advance of their positions. This way, they can spot targets (all types of vehicles) in advance and engage them effectively. If successful, artillery finishes off the targets. Alternatively, they might start with air force, followed by artillery.

They hunt for evacuation teams – both vehicles and stations. Right under our noses, they hit an armored vehicle, and an evacuation vehicle arrived for the guys. They had to maneuver in a tight spot, moving very slowly on a narrow road, avoiding going off-road into a mined field. Taking risks as well. Fortunately, they managed to get them out. KAB's are one of the biggest fears. The russians use them extensively. I can't speak to their accuracy, but the weaponry is powerful. They attempt to target logistics and command centers, just as we do. They don't hesitate to simply fire on roads.

Forward defenses in settlements are constantly under shelling. The aerial reconnaissance linked system Orlan-Zala-Supercam is effective and causing issues. They identify targets and launch Lances, releasing them in swarms along with KAB's. They attempt to break through and hunt down vehicles. The recaptured positions are even more calibrated. Bombs are not spared. No lack of mines either. The tree line where one of the crews was operating was simply leveled. Only a palisade remained, and a well-made trench ceased to be usable.

The russians use a standard tactic for their armor. The route to the firing position is determined, usually in a way that keeps the vehicles under visual cover of the tree lines and eventually positions them in an open space for shooting. They quickly expend their ammunition and retreat Vehicle cannot be completely concealed. Dust clouds are visible during movement, and the vehicles can be seen shifting between tree lines, while drones provide visibility as well.

The main task here is to execute the firing mission quickly enough to prevent artillery targeting or counterattacks using FPV or ATGMs. I understand why the russians are intensively butthurt due to the loss of the village with six streets. They put in significant effort to prevent the Ukrainian Armed Forces from advancing. Defending is easier according to all norms.

On the other hand, we're putting in a tremendous effort to break through. And when we succeed, it shows that our efforts are paying off

Thank you for your attention. I might continue sharing in the future. Meanwhile, I invite you to follow on Facebook and TG (Telegram): https://facebook.com/osolonko https://t.me/silukr/122 Postscript: The original thread can be found here: https://twitter.com/solonko1648/status/1695525388670095804… If you're interested in updates, I highly recommend following him. Translation by

@Tatarigami_UA

I don't like saying it a lot, but these are the exact circumstances for what napalm was more or less intended to deal with.  Going back to the mines, I'm sure there has been some sort of testing done on their level of fire resistance and perhaps that could get the job done.  It's use is not a war crime, unless specifically used while targeting civilians, which considering that Ukrainians aren't likely to want to do that to their own people, perhaps this is an option.  The Mark 77 aerial bomb is in our current inventory, with several variants, and can be affixed with the jdams system.  To be honest, based on that information, I surprised this hasn't been brought up.  

 

[atomheartbevo 90757]

5 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

question for real and armchair military tacticians 

How does own deal with the Surovikin line? I’m assuming it’s mined out the ass. Do you just launch a shit ton of artillery at the place you want to go through? 

I was in after @RDCanecutter, in the early/mid-90s, and we still had vestiges of dealing with Ye Olde Fulda Gap Scenario so thought of mines in a defensive manner, but also had the fairly recent experience of Desert Storm, where the preference was to drive around or airlift over said mind fields/defensive lines.

Ukraine doesn't really have those options, so yeah, as was said, find a point to punch through with your sappers/engineering units clearing paths, and push everything through it and into the Russian rear (NTTIAWWT) and deal with the mines later.  There are mine-clearing machines that function like the Bangalore torpedos you saw in the opening of Saving Private Ryan when they were trying to get through the barbed wire/obstacles - basically pushing a line of explosives that clears out a path using the pressure of the explosives to set off/dislodge the mines, but I have no idea if the Ukrainians still have them.

This is the American version

Ukrainians had captured 13 Russian versions of that vehicle, but they used some of them against Russian soldiers

 

 

[Grade of D as in David 13256]

46 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I was trying to do something automated, so as to save human life, and I suppose now I also need to add to that your army of monkeys.  Now the flying monkeys from Oz, that would just be fucking cool, so I'm on board with that.

The other aspect is that these mines have a pressure trigger at about 150lbs, so force is a factor to detonate them.  Basically, you can't just send out some light weight crap thrown together and hope to clear these.  Basically, it's a fucking nightmare, not just now but for the foreseeable future in the country.   I suppose that is what bothers me about it so much, is that years from now, kids playing, just normal stuff, could wind up detonating these things and getting maimed or killed.  I just hope someone smarter than me (of which there is plenty of that) has a great idea on how to deal with this problem quickly and effectively.  

 

When the Kertch bridge gets destroyed can we march the retreating Russians from Crimea through the mine fields to clear them?

[FartingMonk 3630]

4 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I wonder if using the wildland fire planes and copters to throw large volumes of water at the ground from height could trigger them.  Is there potential for chain reactions?

scoop up from dnipro, drop, water either vaporizes or makes its way back into the dnipro?

Water wouldn't do it.  But you could flood the shit out of that area I guess and the mines would be visible.  That infrared technique the Ukrainians are using is pretty cool.  Well fuck,  nevermind.  The wildfire thing would work.  They can burn the area.  While it will not set off the mines.  It will show the heat signatures of where the mines are 

[Pato del Muerto 53641]

7 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

Water wouldn't do it.  But you could flood the shit out of that area I guess and the mines would be visible.  That infrared technique the Ukrainians are using is pretty cool.  Well fuck,  nevermind.  The wildfire thing would work.  They can burn the area.  While it will not set off the mines.  It will show the heat signatures of where the mines are 

A few tons of water moving at high speed wouldn’t trigger the pressure switches?

 

https://aerialfiremag.com/2019/08/28/video-calfire-destroys-vehicle-with-aerial-firefighting-salvo-to-illustrate-dangers/

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Pato del Muerto

[BamaATL 16593]

1 minute ago, FartingMonk said:

Water wouldn't do it.  But you could flood the shit out of that area I guess and the mines would be visible.  That infrared technique the Ukrainians are using is pretty cool.  Well fuck,  nevermind.  The wildfire thing would work.  They can burn the area.  While it will not set off the mines.  It will show the heat signatures of where the mines are 

That's a good idea, and it tracks with the thermal detection method the Ukrainians have been using.  At least with this you would be able to map them and deal with the problem.  This is just a gigantic problem, not just now but for potentially decades.  As part of eventual reparations for this fucking atrocity and eventual settlement should include them paying this cost.  

[InkaUtexas 27084]

19 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

You probably could if it burns intense enough to render it's mechanisms useless, but dropping bombs on an open field would probably work.  Or just send in the minesweepers after it's done.  The problem with mines in previous wars was little record of it being mined.  We know where every area that was mined in Ukraine.  So mine sweepers going in afterwards would probably do the trick

We know where Ukrainian mines are. Not Russian. Same thing in El Salvador. When they started to clean up they knew where the military had placed them, but not the guerillas. Fortunately the guerrillas played nice and handed the information over. I don't see the Russians doing that. 

 

[Chad Fuck 18180]

When I was about 5 I got my little brother to drink some of dads cologne.  We had to call poison control then I had to deal with some rather overly harsh consequences.

Did his pee smell like Brut?

I stole my cousins’ Brut bottles and just emptied them down the sink. Filled them with sand and they made excellent pretend German potato masher grenades.

/csb

[FartingMonk 3630]

10 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

We know where Ukrainian mines are. Not Russian. Same thing in El Salvador. When they started to clean up they knew where the military had placed them, but not the guerillas. Fortunately the guerrillas played nice and handed the information over. I don't see the Russians doing that. 

 

I say that because we have 100 percent satellite coverage in Ukraine.  We know their order of battle and all their movements.  So I'm pretty sure we know where they laid the mines.

[blacklab 12106]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

This is funny. 

 

[Scheiss Meister 8482]

As I see it, water drops on mines have two problems.  First, the water's impact zone with maximum impact is relatively small.  It would take a lot of drops to get the job done.  Second, Russia has the air over the battlefield well covered.  Slow water haulers would be shot from the sky very quickly.  Mine clearing land drones would be great, but it would take a lot of them, as they would rapidly become primary targets.

Whoever figures out a good way to deal with mines remotely and with minimal casualties will be very wealthy.

[InkaUtexas 27084]

12 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

I say that because we have 100 percent satellite coverage in Ukraine.  We know their order of battle and all their movements.  So I'm pretty sure we know where they laid the mines.

You can know an area was operated in, but not the specifics. We were supposed to take over a Russian base in Helmand and build it out into a development center. Sounds good we said, the UN has cleared it, NATO cleared it, but let's check. found so much UXO it took us 2 months to set up the basic operations facility. 

Maybe mines can be mapped, but UXO is different. For post war, import these! 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by InkaUtexas

[Pato del Muerto 53641]

2 minutes ago, Scheiss Meister said:

Second, Russia has the air over the battlefield well covered.  Slow water haulers would be shot from the sky very quickly.

My thought was specific to post-war activities, not battle tactics. 

[Scheiss Meister 8482]

2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

You can know an area was operated in, but not the specifics. We were supposed to take over a Russian base in Helmand and build it out into a development center. Sounds good we said, the UN has cleared it, NATO cleared it, but let's check. found so much UXO it took us 2 months to set up the basic operations facility. 

Maybe mines can be mapped, but UXO is different. 

There's going to be a big market for EOD folks when this war is over.

[InkaUtexas 27084]

My daughter (no pics you thirsty dudes) designed a project where certain plants were modified with bioluminescence so when they came in contact with explosive materials the grass would glow. Pretty fucking cool. She did not get the chance to prove it in the field and the lab she was at owns the concept. Research stopped when she graduated from High School and went to her university. My dad linked her up with some EOD people from 5th Special Forces who helped with the chemicals within a lot of explosives. They were very excited about it. I wish she had continued it.

Mines and UXO are a big thing in the family. We don't like them......