Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[atomheartbevo 89648]

1 hour ago, B00M said:

The other difference is that all those people linking up can be identified in real time and disappeared in the following days

What's going to happen to them?  They'll be mobilized and sent to Ukraine?  Because the semi-able-bodied men that are left are going to be sent to Ukraine at some point anyways, and everybody knows it.  A year ago they were rounding up men off the streets and at bus and train stations, so the upcoming conscriptions will resort to them searching homes on a large scale and dragging the men out and sending them to Ukraine with a week's worth of training after they've fired half-a-magazine through a rusty AK-47.

That period between 1905-1917 is worth taking a look at, because it feels like we are somewhere in that timeframe.  I do think there is a tipping point, because they are starting to run low on men (witness them relaxing the physical and mental disability standards for conscripts).  And plenty of Russians realize they get nothing out of the Ukrainian fight except the losses of relatives, lowered wages, financial disruption, and the quality of goods and services is dropping.

1 hour ago, B00M said:

we need to find a way to get western ideals of individual liberty and opportunity to the general Russian population… we need to tear down and publicly air out the KGB/FSB/whatever in the courts, no matter how bad it may make some western leaders look … it will require massive money and humility from the west to actually change Russia. Do we care that much? 

We tried.  Maybe half-assed, but we tried in the wake of the Soviet Union collapsing.  A whole lot of Western companies moved in and tried to show them how to get away from all of the infamous shortages, bring in free market ideas, and generally get away from the dictatorships of old (and the oligarchs did take note), wages rose, many Russians had access to Western goods, and many Russians were able to travel around Europe and see the standard of living among the Eastern European nations that resulted when those countries followed the lead of their Western European brethren.  Not to mention that even those Russians who couldn't travel abroad still could see some of that through the internet.

As for why the Russians let Putin do what he did, to eventually become another dictator, and put themselves in a position where all of the things they had gained since 1991 were being systematically taken away, that's worthy of a long-ass thread and there's multiple books about it, but ultimately:

Russia gonna Russia.

I've seen a few analysts say that part of the problem is there are still enough people around in Russia that remember the Soviet Union and feel like it commanded respect, whereas the world shits on them now, but it's going to take another few decades to clear that group out.

Edited October 1, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[atomheartbevo 89648]

A huge problem for Russia, ironically, is that they don't have a Politburo that can remove Putin like they had in the Soviet Union days, which is why the comparisons to 1905-1917 and the removal of the Romanovs are brought up.  Nicholas II didn't have anybody keeping him in check, and he was too stubborn to see the writing on the wall and the need for reforms and he wasn't keyed into what/how the peasants were thinking/feeling, so he just let that pressure cooker build up steam until it was too late to do anything.

If/when shit goes down, it'll be nuts.  I'm assuming that any Russian forces still in Ukraine will surrender or try and head home, and if anybody ends up in charge in Russia I'd see them recalling Russia troops from Ukraine anyways - it'd be a popular move with the troops, and they may want to do something about those troops (the troops do have a lot of power in their hands, and the last thing a new leader wants is Russian generals next door to Russia with combat-hardened troops).

Edited October 1, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[MillerEP 30454]

Congress dropped the Ukraine aid package to pass the temp funding bill:

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2023/10/01/congress-avoids-government-shutdown-drops-ukraine-aid/

[InkaUtexas 25905]

Fuckers. It is costing us almost nothing to let them hold and now to start taking back the ground. 

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Fuckers. It is costing us almost nothing to let them hold and now to start taking back the ground. 

 

Reply in the CR version of Ukraine War

[InkaUtexas 25905]

Not going CR. I am pissed at how we have held back such critical aid and that is the entire government. 

[KYHorn 17029]

For those who won't go there,  I'll keep it above CR territory.

In case you were wondering, the few on the far right who were holding everything up over Ukraine aren't happy about this. 

HOUSE DEM LEADERSHIP STATEMENT: 

"When the House returns, we expect Speaker McCarthy to advance a bill to the House Floor for an up-or-down vote that supports Ukraine, consistent with his commitment to making sure that Vladimir Putin, Russia and authoritarianism are defeated. We must stand with the Ukrainian people until victory is won."

[BamaATL 16593]

1 hour ago, KYHorn said:

For those who won't go there,  I'll keep it above CR territory.

In case you were wondering, the few on the far right who were holding everything up over Ukraine aren't happy about this. 

HOUSE DEM LEADERSHIP STATEMENT: 

"When the House returns, we expect Speaker McCarthy to advance a bill to the House Floor for an up-or-down vote that supports Ukraine, consistent with his commitment to making sure that Vladimir Putin, Russia and authoritarianism are defeated. We must stand with the Ukrainian people until victory is won."

Also flying under the radar, Senate has a billed teed up for Monday that will push forward funding.  I don't understand the mechanisms of all this, but apparently it more or less bypasses the budget stuff.  If what I have read is correct, and I understood it correctly, it removes this from the political squabbling.  

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

 

[atomheartbevo 89648]

Crazy thing about the Tu-95s (besides the fact that their lineage goes back to our B-29), is that they first flew in 1952, but did not see combat until 2015 (Syria).

63 years before finally doing the deed.

[Gatorubet 30209]

8 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

What's going to happen to them?  They'll be mobilized and sent to Ukraine?  Because the semi-able-bodied men that are left are going to be sent to Ukraine at some point anyways, and everybody knows it.  A year ago they were rounding up men off the streets and at bus and train stations, so the upcoming conscriptions will resort to them searching homes on a large scale and dragging the men out and sending them to Ukraine with a week's worth of training after they've fired half-a-magazine through a rusty AK-47.

That period between 1905-1917 is worth taking a look at, because it feels like we are somewhere in that timeframe.  I do think there is a tipping point, because they are starting to run low on men (witness them relaxing the physical and mental disability standards for conscripts).  And plenty of Russians realize they get nothing out of the Ukrainian fight except the losses of relatives, lowered wages, financial disruption, and the quality of goods and services is dropping.

We tried.  Maybe half-assed, but we tried in the wake of the Soviet Union collapsing.  A whole lot of Western companies moved in and tried to show them how to get away from all of the infamous shortages, bring in free market ideas, and generally get away from the dictatorships of old (and the oligarchs did take note), wages rose, many Russians had access to Western goods, and many Russians were able to travel around Europe and see the standard of living among the Eastern European nations that resulted when those countries followed the lead of their Western European brethren.  Not to mention that even those Russians who couldn't travel abroad still could see some of that through the internet.

As for why the Russians let Putin do what he did, to eventually become another dictator, and put themselves in a position where all of the things they had gained since 1991 were being systematically taken away, that's worthy of a long-ass thread and there's multiple books about it, but ultimately:

Russia gonna Russia.

I've seen a few analysts say that part of the problem is there are still enough people around in Russia that remember the Soviet Union and feel like it commanded respect, whereas the world shits on them now, but it's going to take another few decades to clear that group out.

[Parliament 14255]

12 hours ago, B00M said:

 

we need to find a way to get western ideals of individual liberty and opportunity to the general Aggy population… we need to tear down and publicly air out the KGB/FSB/whatever in the courts, no matter how bad it may make some western leaders look … it will require massive money and humility from the west to actually change Aggy.
 

Same difference, same result.

[KYHorn 17029]

British Intelligence reports that Russia is heading for a defence spending of 30% of the total public expenditure in 2024, proposing a 10.8 trillion Rubles ($112 billion) defence budget which equals to 6% of the GDP and is a 68% increase over 2023. Russia is preparing for multiple years of fighting.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

The drones hitting Smolensk:

 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

 

 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

The drone attack near Sochi reportedly hit Russian helicopters parked near the airport.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[Hefeweizen 5311]

Not sure that it’s not obvious to anyone watching, but Russia is never settling for peace with Ukraine while Putin is alive.  He can’t afford to end the war without total victory.  If anyone thinks there’s an off ramp they are deluding themselves.

 

 These most recent acts by Russia internally show that without a doubt.  And I’m definitely more worried about the US commitment than the Eurozone, which is a complete flip from as little as six months ago.  The euros finally figured out what the Baltics and Poland had been telling them.  Credit to the UK which has been on the forefront of this all along.

[cactusflinthead 27598]

1 hour ago, Hefeweizen said:

Credit to the UK

If you had told me back when this started that Finland and Sweden would be added to the NATO side and Boris of Bad Hair was to be the defender of Ukraine I would have laughed at it 

I still do, but it's full of schadenfreude. Putin changed the trajectory of how it was going in the EU. It's a realignment all right, but not what he expected.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

Slovakia about to elect the Russian puppet.

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

7 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 

Slovakia about to elect the Russian puppet.

 

Slovakian Politics Wonk here.

 

[SaucyJack 3488]

13 hours ago, KYHorn said:

For those who won't go there,  I'll keep it above CR territory.

In case you were wondering, the few on the far right who were holding everything up over Ukraine aren't happy about this. 

HOUSE DEM LEADERSHIP STATEMENT: 

"When the House returns, we expect Speaker McCarthy to advance a bill to the House Floor for an up-or-down vote that supports Ukraine, consistent with his commitment to making sure that Vladimir Putin, Russia and authoritarianism are defeated. We must stand with the Ukrainian people until victory is won."

From CNN updates:

 

Biden says US "will not walk away" from Ukraine and calls on Republicans to support new aid

Biden - "But let's be clear. I hope my friends on the other side keep their word about support for Ukraine. They said they were going to support Ukraine in a separate vote," the president said. "We cannot, under any circumstances, allow American support for Ukraine to be interrupted," he said.

-------

 

War and politics cannot be separated. The realpolitiks of war dictate.  It follows that one does not turn a blind eye to who supports funding war and who does not.

If mods feel this is inappropriate, please move.

 

[InkaUtexas 25905]

 

[InkaUtexas 25905]

And to protect the future defenders. Fuck Russia. 

 

[elfenix 34230]

nsiap

[Hefeweizen 5311]

That’s fantastic.  Especially dragging they’re nuts with Pooh bear.

[Gatorubet 30209]

5 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

The drones hitting Smolensk:

 

All that anti-aircraft/drone lead going up in the sky….you know some of it has to land at places that people don’t want it to.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

 

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

 

 

[Zonahorn 8079]

 

[Chopper 17230]

19 hours ago, BamaATL said:

Also flying under the radar, Senate has a billed teed up for Monday that will push forward funding.  I don't understand the mechanisms of all this, but apparently it more or less bypasses the budget stuff.  If what I have read is correct, and I understood it correctly, it removes this from the political squabbling.  

I am not sure what this references. I've read a R Senate member wants to try to bundle a huge amount of Ukraine funding with "border" funding.

Spending bills are constitutionally required to begin in the House of Reps. though so at this point it sounds like he (Graham) is seeing if he can float a proposal that would get bipartisan Senate support, and thereby give the Senate a stronger negotiating position with the House when the House finally sends a spending bill to them.

12 hours ago, KYHorn said:

British Intelligence reports that Russia is heading for a defence spending of 30% of the total public expenditure in 2024, proposing a 10.8 trillion Rubles ($112 billion) defence budget which equals to 6% of the GDP and is a 68% increase over 2023. Russia is preparing for multiple years of fighting.

I imagine it's a ploy to try to get the West to think it's a "forever war" and become more motivated to negotiate with ruski on their terms.

Apologies if this has already been posted in this thread. I don't recall seeing it. Regarding those connected and fortified Russian bunkers and tunnels...Apparently the Ukrainians are going to be the first to use the new XM1147 AMP tank rounds for the Abrams in battle. They replace 4 different types of rounds. From Task & Purpose.
 

Quote

The XM-1147 Advanced Multi-Purpose (AMP) round, a line-of-sight tank round developed by Northrop Grumman Defense Systems for the Abrams tank, is designed to do the job of four existing rounds, consolidating their abilities into one munition. It will replace the M830 High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) and the M830A1 Multi-Purpose Anti-Tank (MPAT), both designed for light armor targets and aerial targets, in the case of the MPAT; the M1028 canister (CAN) round, used to hit infantry targets outside the range of machine guns; and the M908 obstacle reducing (OR) round, according to the Army release.

As Forbes reported this year, the AMP “can flatten bunkers, pulverize obstacles, breach concrete walls or take out groups of personnel. And it can destroy armored and unarmored vehicles and buildings, too.”

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Chopper
typo

[MagicSoccerSpray 1732]

 

[atomheartbevo 89648]

Kind of posted earlier (bits and pieces) but different host - Russian state TV wanting to restore the empire is what's behind this.

[Chopper 17230]

8 minutes ago, Viper said:

 

 

 

Check out this thread at Thread Reader App. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1708460316558848432.html

 

The thread reader app link was extremely helpful so thank you.

Quote

10) Finding an end-game in Ukraine is a genuine challenge. No one thinks we can pour endless amounts of money into the conflict. But if we are to negotiate a lasting peace, we need to do so from a position of strength, not a position of surrender.

I would just add that it also needs to be done in a way that doesn't allow the fucking russians to build up their military during a pause and then start all this anew a few years down the line. Which of course they will do if given room to do so.

 

[Bevo 13576]

6 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Quote

10) Finding an end-game in Ukraine is a genuine challenge. No one thinks we can pour endless amounts of money into the conflict. But if we are to negotiate a lasting peace, we need to do so from a position of strength, not a position of surrender.

I would just add that it also needs to be done in a way that doesn't allow the fucking russians to build up their military during a pause and then start all this anew a few years down the line. Which of course they will do if given room to do so.

 

 

Why do we need to find an end-game? That's Russia's problem. F16s and ATACMS out front should of told ya.

[Chopper 17230]

9 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Why do we need to find an end-game? That's Russia's problem. F16s and ATACMS out front should of told ya.

In spirit I agree a million percent. But unless this one ends with Ukraine successfully invading Moscow and Putin swallowing poison in his bunker, there's eventually going to be some sort of negotiated settlement.

[Viper 12108]

And they say customer service is dead...

 

 

[BamaATL 16593]

https://www.businessinsider.com/pole-dancing-in-ukraine-strip-club-by-russian-border-2023-9?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=insider-ukraine-sub-post

Not what you think you might be about, an interesting read.  Defiance comes in many forms.  

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

14 minutes ago, The Bell Tolls for Thee said:

They are on war footing, we are not. Going to have to do more here to move the needle.

That's because WE are not at war you fucking troll.

[TexasEd 8066]

On 9/29/2023 at 7:17 PM, Viper said:

Anyone signed up yet

 

90kg? Nvm

 

"So I don't understand, where are the boys?" asks one. "Men are shy now," another complains.

Uhh, most of them are now meat cubes stacked on pallets.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

 

 

 

[Chad Fuck 17669]

2 hours ago, BamaATL said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/pole-dancing-in-ukraine-strip-club-by-russian-border-2023-9?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=insider-ukraine-sub-post

Not what you think you might be about, an interesting read.  Defiance comes in many forms.  

[BamaATL 16593]

1 minute ago, Chad Fuck said:

You might need some ointment after a handy for Rosie.  

[wildcat09 29349]

11 hours ago, Chopper said:

In spirit I agree a million percent. But unless this one ends with Ukraine successfully invading Moscow and Putin swallowing poison in his bunker, there's eventually going to be some sort of negotiated settlement.

"Y'all go home, don't come back."

[Parliament 14255]

"Russian leasership: go fuck yourself."

[Chad Fuck 17669]

9 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

You might need some ointment after a handy for Rosie.  

Not if she uses some ointment before.

Either way, life's a gamble.  I'm willing to risk it.