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[The Dog 44870]

1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:

The Senate will vote on it Tuesday.

 

[The Dog 44870]

 

[troph 25258]

Any hope now of dislodging these mother fuckers ? 

[InkaUtexas 26980]

9 minutes ago, troph said:

Any hope now of dislodging these mother fuckers ? 

The Russian's or the Crazy-ass members of Congress who support Putin?

[troph 25258]

4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

The Russian's or the Crazy-ass members of Congress who support Putin?

 

I was referring to the Russians tho.

Edited April 20 by troph

[InkaUtexas 26980]

1 minute ago, troph said:

 

I was referring to the Russians tho.

I am not sure. I think there are two outcomes that would end this.

1- UA holds, and can bleed the Russians. Halt the advance basically and keep hitting them in their rear areas. Infrastructure, air bases, etc. Russia can lose men, but equipment is probably more important. Many forget Lend Lease saved their ass and the West is not doing that. There are so many shells they can get from the Norks. India may buy oil (we should sanction the fuck out of them) but won't be sending equipment. In fact they have cancelled orders of Russian equipment. China? I think in the long run they would like to see a weaker Russia.

2- Putin dies..... Who replaces him is the issue. Another hardliner or a military coup hell bent on going down with Mother Russia or the Oligarchs who are getting hit in their Versace wallets.

What is in the aid package will be important. Artillery, anti-air and life support items are important. Some more Bradleys, etc. F-16's will guard Ukraine's skies, don't see them going into Russia.

[Braff Zacklin 13676]

So, so very happy to see this bill pass the House--our first official funding for Ukraine in nearly a year-and-a-half, right?

[The Dog 44870]

[YGIFS 19458]

Besides the bill passing, three overlooked pieces of good news as cherry on top: 

1.  The logistical supply chain from here to NATO partners was already locked and loaded.  It will deploy in hours, not weeks.  

2.  The morale boost for UDF is almost immeasurable.  We weren't the only thing they were hoping for, but it's a boost beyond any metrics.

3.  You can call every dissenting vote, a Putin puppet.  But some of those folks are just plain wrong, not evil, but wrong.  Voting to appease their base in a tight district and can't afford to be seen siding with the current administration's efforts.  I don't agree, but they're not against Ukraine or the U.S./NATO necessarily.    But several dozen of them, no CR, have now revealed themselves publicly to be supporters of Putin.  The smart ones would have voted "Present/NV", but instead couldn't resist the pomp and circumstance and thumbing their noses at the Yes voters.  In a just world, they would answer for their crimes against our country, stand trial, and be summarily dealt with as they would have from FDR to Reagan.  Now some on here will send them more money as fast as they can.  But history will put a checkmark against their names.  And a century from now, children will ask, 'Where are the Russians now?"  And history will answer, "They are dust."  And their follow-up will be, "And what of the American politicians that supported Russia, where are they now?"  And history will conclude, "Alongside the Russians, in the Wind."  

[atomheartbevo 90685]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/house-vote-billions-dollars-russian-government-money-sitting-us-banks-rcna148671

Quote

The House passed a foreign aid package on Saturday as well as what's called the REPO Act that will allow the Biden administration to confiscate billions of dollars’ worth of Russian assets sitting in U.S. banks and transfer them to Ukraine for reconstruction.

Quote

The REPO Act, which would authorize Biden to confiscate the frozen Russian assets in U.S. banks and transfer them to a special fund for Ukraine, is part of the foreign aid package that was stalled for months in the House. More than $6 billion of the $300 billion in frozen Russian assets are sitting in U.S. banks. Most of the $300 billion are in Germany, France and Belgium.

Quote

Russian President Vladimir Putin and his government invested heavily in the euro and the dollar over the years to keep the ruble stable, planting some $300 billion worth of foreign currency reserves. 

But in early 2022, following Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, all of the Group of Seven (G7) countries including the U.S., U.K., Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan banded together and froze all of the $300 billion dollars of Russian foreign currency reserves held in banks in those countries, most of the money in Europe.

Quote

“The Russians were surprised when, right after the war started, the Europeans took the exact same measures as the United States, freezing all of the reserves that were there and the Japanese did the same, which is why most of Russia’s reserves today are frozen in western banks,” said Chris Miller a professor at the Fletcher School at Tufts University.

The idea to confiscate the Russian assets emerged last year and has been hotly contested by economists and foreign policy experts

Quote

McFaul, whose been lobbying for the REPO Act for months, clapped back at Caldwell’s assertion and said the use of Russian assets for Ukraine would send an important message to autocratic nations around the world.   “There are those that say, 'Well, this will hurt the dollar. It’s bad for our reputation.' I have a pushback to that. I don’t want criminals investing in American Treasury bonds,” McFaul said.

One of the diplomatic challenges would be to convince the other G7 countries to do the same. While the U.K. is on board with the idea, France and Germany have been reticent.  “We’re making good progress in how to access that funds on an agreed basis that I think we can take forward to the G7,” U.K. foreign minister David Cameron told reporters April 9. 

 

[InkaUtexas 26980]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/house-vote-billions-dollars-russian-government-money-sitting-us-banks-rcna148671

 

Europe has been waiting on us to do this. I think they will follow suit.

Now do the same with sanctioned oligarch's assets. I still think some of the villas in Italy, France, Spain could be turned into Rehab centers for Ukrainians. It is how it was handled in WW1 and 2.

[troph 25258]

Fuck em. Blood money. Take it.

[Sawbonz 28252]

15 minutes ago, troph said:

Fuck em. Blood money. Take it.

Exactly. The only argument I see being made against it is it sets a bad precedent, as in another sovereign nation could do the same to us. First of all, we would never have significant assets parked in a country who would do that to us on a whim. And if some nation did it because we unlawfully invaded a third party sovereign nation they would be justified in doing so. 

[troph 25258]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Exactly. The only argument I see being made against it is it sets a bad precedent, as in another sovereign nation could do the same to us. First of all, we would never have significant assets parked in a country who would do that to us on a whim. And if some nation did it because we unlawfully invaded a third party sovereign nation they would be justified in doing so. 

Yeah I worked through the precedent concern pretty quickly too.

[Thetexashammer 1062]

6 hours ago, troph said:

Any hope now of dislodging these mother fuckers ? 

None. Lots of money going to stand up our industrial base for support in a large scale combat operation in the INDOPAC. Nothing to stop the slow bleed for the good guys.

Edited April 21 by Thetexashammer

[MissingInAction 25606]

4 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

None. Lots of money going to stand up our industrial base for support in a large scale combat operation in the INDOPAC. Nothing to stop the slow bleed for the good guys.

[RPM 26682]

On 4/19/2024 at 8:01 AM, hornian said:

There's only one thing to do now...

 

[nineliveslost 3013]

1 hour ago, MissingInAction said:

I want you to be right,but my head says unfortunately you arent.

Ukraine will struggle and ultimately fail because no one can give them the resource they need the most. Fighting men. They need to increase their population because this is just round one if Russia survives this is.

Heaven help Ukraine if the rumors about Russia almost done mobilizing an even larger army than before the war. 

Western powers should have went all in at the start of sanctions. Too much playing catch up now. Its literally a meat grinder war. Like most European wars on the  continent

[B00M 6736]

Regardless, from a purely selfish perspective (Murica!), we need as much Russian meat to grind in Ukraine as possible. The alternative to supporting Ukraine is only worse for America. 

Edited April 21 by B00M

[Parliament 14620]

8 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Exactly. The only argument I see being made against it is it sets a bad precedent, as in another sovereign nation could do the same to us. First of all, we would never have significant assets parked in a country who would do that to us on a whim. And if some nation did it because we unlawfully invaded a third party sovereign nation they would be justified in doing so. 

I also worry about the precedent, but we’re at the stage the risk is worth it.  We did things in WW2 that were dangerous precedents; some of which were still dealing with.  But it was worth it.  Same here I think.

34 minutes ago, B00M said:

Regardless, from a purely selfish perspective (Murica!), we need as much Russian meat to grind in Ukraine as possible. The alternative to supporting Ukraine is only worse for America. 

So again.  Many of us are old enough to have been raised to hate the Russians.  Is seeing out the dreams or Truman, Goldwater, Regan, John Rambo, enough reason to kill ‘em all, reason enough?  It is for me.  Let’s take their $300M and buy first-line weapons.  And go kill Russians.

[DaggerHorns 3176]

3 hours ago, nineliveslost said:

I want you to be right,but my head says unfortunately you arent.

Ukraine will struggle and ultimately fail because no one can give them the resource they need the most. Fighting men. They need to increase their population because this is just round one if Russia survives this is.

Heaven help Ukraine if the rumors about Russia almost done mobilizing an even larger army than before the war. 

Western powers should have went all in at the start of sanctions. Too much playing catch up now. Its literally a meat grinder war. Like most European wars on the  continent

[Sawbonz 28252]

3 hours ago, nineliveslost said:

I want you to be right,but my head says unfortunately you arent.

Ukraine will struggle and ultimately fail because no one can give them the resource they need the most. Fighting men. They need to increase their population because this is just round one if Russia survives this is.

Heaven help Ukraine if the rumors about Russia almost done mobilizing an even larger army than before the war. 

Western powers should have went all in at the start of sanctions. Too much playing catch up now. It’s literally a meat grinder war. Like most European wars on the  continent

 Wagner is no more; prisons have been emptied; the ethnic minority regions have been depleted to the point they are at risk of insurrection; eligible men with the means to leave have left to avoid fighting: estimates of up to 1M. 
 

When ethnic Russians from Moscow and St Petersburg start dying in numbers Putin is going to have a real problem

[Chad Fuck 18167]

How about the precedent we set is that aggressive autocratic nations don’t get to take advantage of the greatest economic engine ever created - Western capitalism - and then use the benefits of that engine to undermine it?

Let’s send the message that we are happy for you to join our peaceful money making club. After all, a rising tide lifts all boats. But if you break the rules by unilaterally starting fights with members, then fuck you. The finding out will follow.

Is France worried about their money being lost? Germany? Any of a number of non aggressive countries a tier lower? Say Argentina? No.

If countries like China get worried, well, good.

Bottom line the message needs to be sent that it is profitable on many levels to be a friend of the West and expensive to be an enemy.

[Schulz2.0 29305]

4 hours ago, nineliveslost said:

I want you to be right,but my head says unfortunately you arent.

Ukraine will struggle and ultimately fail because no one can give them the resource they need the most. Fighting men. They need to increase their population because this is just round one if Russia survives this is.

Heaven help Ukraine if the rumors about Russia almost done mobilizing an even larger army than before the war. 

Western powers should have went all in at the start of sanctions. Too much playing catch up now. Its literally a meat grinder war. Like most European wars on the  continent

Artillery has been the biggest issue. They only started ceding territory when they were at a huge shell disadvantage. I have doubts Ukraine can retake much territory, but I'm very certain giving Ukraine adequate supplies means they can hold their ground and continue making the war very costly for Russia.

[Schulz2.0 29305]

Right thread this time.

[Bevo 13931]

41 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

Artillery has been the biggest issue. They only started ceding territory when they were at a huge shell disadvantage. I have doubts Ukraine can retake much territory, but I'm very certain giving Ukraine adequate supplies means they can hold their ground and continue making the war very costly for Russia.

F16s should help. It seems like they should already be there considering the expected delivery date was a few months ago. Maybe they are waiting on munitions.

[Schulz2.0 29305]

[Schulz2.0 29305]

9 minutes ago, Bevo said:

F16s should help. It seems like they should already be there considering the expected delivery date was a few months ago. Maybe they are waiting on munitions.

The F-16s that have been delivered are at the training base in Romania for Ukrainian pilots. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-deliver-three-more-f-16s-training-ukrainian-pilots-romania-2024-04-17/

[Captainant 28607]

13 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

It is a prototypical move of the putinist russians to cry foul about adherence to international law, something that they are flaunting every second their invasion of Ukraine continues. Always seeking to be protected by the law, but never bound by it. 

[Schulz2.0 29305]

 

 

[B00M 6736]

50 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

What is this “white mans burden” nonsense? 

I didn’t realize the EU was still sitting on 200B euros worth of Russian assets — that’s fantastic and fucking hilarious 

[InkaUtexas 26980]

Just now, B00M said:

What is this “white mans burden” nonsense? 

I didn’t realize the EU was still sitting on 200B euros worth of Russian assets — that’s fantastic and fucking hilarious 

That is without auctioning off assets. Villas, boats, etc. That is currency sitting in EU banks. And Russia. Not sanctioned Russians. I have never seen a number associated with their assets.

[The Dog 44870]

 

[Chad Fuck 18167]

Hhaahhahahaahahha.

Hahahahahaahaha at Russian concern with international Rule of Law. Where was this concern when murdering the innocents of Bucha or any of the other hundreds of Ukrainian villages their barbarous soldiers passed through? Or in any of their other incursions into their neighbors’ sovereign territories?

This is the true face of Russia. Rule of Law is only for us, not our neighbors.

[Chad Fuck 18167]

 

As a fan of vintage ships this makes me sad.

As a fan of seeing invaders get killed and their shit blown to bits, it’s delicious.

[Captainant 28607]

25 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

As a fan of vintage ships this makes me sad.

As a fan of seeing invaders get killed and their shit blown to bits, it’s delicious.

That's the vessel that russia uses to recover sunk ships, so this is a major reduction in naval capabilities for a very long time. Crazy that she was laid down by the Tsar's navy and presently is getting targeted by modern cruise missiles

[3 Stacks 9]

13 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Exactly. The only argument I see being made against it is it sets a bad precedent, as in another sovereign nation could do the same to us. 

Actually the precedent is that the West will do this to other nations that step out of line. I think it is totally justified to do to Russia given the situation, but the tricky part is that other nations may suspect that it could eventually happen to them for lesser discretions once this seal is broken. They will adjust how they hold reserves.
 

Given that this move has been telegraphed and threatened for a while, I’m sure they’re already making those changes anyway so we might as well go for it. 

[MissingInAction 25606]

[Schulz2.0 29305]

 

[pops 7160]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

Actually the precedent is that the West will do this to other nations that step out of line. I think it is totally justified to do to Russia given the situation, but the tricky part is that other nations may suspect that it could eventually happen to them for lesser discretions once this seal is broken. They will adjust how they hold reserves.
 

Given that this move has been telegraphed and threatened for a while, I’m sure they’re already making those changes anyway so we might as well go for it. 

Fuck em. You want to be an asshole you don't get to participate in our economy. Full stop. 

[SquishMitten 10497]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

Actually the precedent is that the West will do this to other nations that step out of line. I think it is totally justified to do to Russia given the situation, but the tricky part is that other nations may suspect that it could eventually happen to them for lesser discretions once this seal is broken. They will adjust how they hold reserves.
 

Given that this move has been telegraphed and threatened for a while, I’m sure they’re already making those changes anyway so we might as well go for it. 

Honestly, it wouldn’t be the worst thing for us if certain countries didn’t have so much invested here. That is at least part of what gives them more power and influence than they should have

[Parliament 14620]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

That is without auctioning off assets. Villas, boats, etc. That is currency sitting in EU banks. And Russia. Not sanctioned Russians. I have never seen a number associated with their assets.

And the Europeans are afraid to straight up TAKE that money, there is a middle ground:

[InkaUtexas 26980]

29 minutes ago, Parliament said:

And the Europeans are afraid to straight up TAKE that money, there is a middle ground:

I don't think so. I think they were waiting for us to make up our minds and lead. Remember when we promised the first aid package and started backfilling equipment to NATO allies? Ukraine got a lot of equipment the knew how to use, old USSR stuff from Eastern Europe.

[3 Stacks 9]

16 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

“There are those that say, 'Well, this will hurt the dollar. It’s bad for our reputation.' I have a pushback to that. I don’t want criminals investing in American Treasury bonds,” McFaul said.

 

32 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Honestly, it wouldn’t be the worst thing for us if certain countries didn’t have so much invested here. That is at least part of what gives them more power and influence than they should have

I hadn’t thought about it until now but this could be part of the delay depending on the composition of these reserves. How many bonds will have to be sold? Interest rates are a concern. 
 

Also, which European banks hold these? Liquidating or moving $300B around can adversely affect banks’ health given that it’s a fractional reserve system.  
 

 

[InkaUtexas 26980]

You create a special fund only for reconstruction. Freeze the money so it does not move around (or back to Russia). Draw from the banks as needed vs. pull it all out and put it in a piggy bank in Brussels.

[Parliament 14620]

32 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I don't think so. I think they were waiting for us to make up our minds and lead. Remember when we promised the first aid package and started backfilling equipment to NATO allies? Ukraine got a lot of equipment the knew how to use, old USSR stuff from Eastern Europe.

I’m joking.  That that $200B and buy weapons.  Do it now.

[atomheartbevo 90685]

10 hours ago, nineliveslost said:

Ukraine will struggle and ultimately fail because no one can give them the resource they need the most. Fighting men. They need to increase their population because this is just round one if Russia survives this is.

At most, Russia might be able to hold on to what they have right now, so Ukraine will still exist.  Russia has burned through their most experienced soldiers, the prisons, their mercenaries, and they are fielding T-55s, a tank that came out in the 1950s when Khrushchev was still running the show.

The Ukrainians are trying to boost their demographics by somewhat avoiding sending their youngest men to the front lines while Russia is liable to be mobilizing 16-70 year-olds by this time next year.

10 hours ago, nineliveslost said:

Heaven help Ukraine if the rumors about Russia almost done mobilizing an even larger army than before the war. 

And they will send them to the frontlines in what?  And equipped with what? They are using Scooby Doo vans to haul supplies around, and golf carts to move men.  As mentioned, they’ve been caught fielding 1950s tanks. And their training pipeline is abysmal.  You can get away with sending untrained conscripts to fight in Stalingrad against the Germans in WWII because it’s your own backyard and the weapons and tactics weren’t fancy, but it’s 2024 and these poorly trained conscripts are being hunted down by drones, both in their foxholes and in their vehicles.

It’s not going to be pretty but Ukraine will still be standing when we hit year three of Putin’s three-day Special Military Operation.

[atomheartbevo 90685]

3 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Actually the precedent is that the West will do this to other nations that step out of line. I think it is totally justified to do to Russia given the situation, but the tricky part is that other nations may suspect that it could eventually happen to them for lesser discretions once this seal is broken. They will adjust how they hold reserves.

Then those nations who think it could happen for lesser discretions are really fucking stupid, because it’s taken Russia stealing land from Ukraine around a decade ago, and then formally invading the country as a whole, raping and pillaging and kidnapping a shitload of kids, before we finally did something.

And even then, we waited through another two years of Russia killing and raping and kidnapping Ukrainians and trying to destroy their schools, hospitals, power grid, etc. before we finally decided to do something about those funds, and it still may not even happen.

So the bar is set pretty fucking high, and the countries who have the kind of financial holdings overseas on that scale are almost all allies of ours anyways, and the number of countries that could actually do something on the scale of what Russia is doing is extremely small - basically the US, Russia, China, and maybe India.  Out of China and India, neither wants to do something that would lead to us confiscating their assets or severing financial ties.

If anything, it’s one more reason why China will tread carefully.

[The Dog 44870]

[InkaUtexas 26980]

3 hours ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 

Wait until our next gift. We are deploying the aggie corp. To russia. You will thank us!

But serious, anyone check in on texags to see if it is a meltdown?