Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[NorthLoop 14029]

Just now, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Yeah, you have to be able to root for the guys who have been forced into a bad situation a bit.  But then again, I'd like it even more of they just threw their hands up and surrendered to it. 

My guess is there's a lot of those that do that and still get their heads blown off. We just don't see those videos. War is hell. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

Yeah, probably so. Agreed, war is hell. 

[BamaATL 16592]

The thing to remember when you see Russian's in uniform die, is that they have all made choices, which lead them to their death.  They had the choice to refuse conscription (yes, they would have gone to prison, but that's a choice), they had the choice to flee their country (they didn't), they had the choice as mercenaries not to take blood money (they did it anyway), and ultimately, they had the choice to surrender, even to the bitter end (the Ukrainians have repeatedly shown a willingness to accept a surrender) and they didn't do that either.  Further, they made the choice to accept their society as it is, and they did nothing about it, they are complicit by proxy to this entire shitshow.  

Now, also consider this, these are people in uniform, active combatants, in a war.  The Russian's have slaughtered civilians, tens of thousands of them.  That these men might not have done it means very little to me at least, as their mere presence on the field perpetuates the Russian continued attack of said civilians.  

So when you consider all this, maybe you won't feel so bad about it.  While the waste of human lives is an affront to decency, we must also consider the justness of the why.  

[TeeDubya 3358]

13 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

The thing to remember when you see Russian's in uniform die, is that they have all made choices, which lead them to their death.  They had the choice to refuse conscription (yes, they would have gone to prison, but that's a choice), they had the choice to flee their country (they didn't), they had the choice as mercenaries not to take blood money (they did it anyway), and ultimately, they had the choice to surrender, even to the bitter end (the Ukrainians have repeatedly shown a willingness to accept a surrender) and they didn't do that either.  Further, they made the choice to accept their society as it is, and they did nothing about it, they are complicit by proxy to this entire shitshow.  

Now, also consider this, these are people in uniform, active combatants, in a war.  The Russian's have slaughtered civilians, tens of thousands of them.  That these men might not have done it means very little to me at least, as their mere presence on the field perpetuates the Russian continued attack of said civilians.  

So when you consider all this, maybe you won't feel so bad about it.  While the waste of human lives is an affront to decency, we must also consider the justness of the why.  

All of this.  Fuck Russia.  

Edited September 10 by TeeDubya

[Braff Zacklin 13331]

2 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

The thing to remember when you see Russian's in uniform die, is that they have all made choices, which lead them to their death.  They had the choice to refuse conscription (yes, they would have gone to prison, but that's a choice), they had the choice to flee their country (they didn't), they had the choice as mercenaries not to take blood money (they did it anyway), and ultimately, they had the choice to surrender, even to the bitter end (the Ukrainians have repeatedly shown a willingness to accept a surrender) and they didn't do that either.  Further, they made the choice to accept their society as it is, and they did nothing about it, they are complicit by proxy to this entire shitshow.  

Now, also consider this, these are people in uniform, active combatants, in a war.  The Russian's have slaughtered civilians, tens of thousands of them.  That these men might not have done it means very little to me at least, as their mere presence on the field perpetuates the Russian continued attack of said civilians.  

So when you consider all this, maybe you won't feel so bad about it.  While the waste of human lives is an affront to decency, we must also consider the justness of the why.  

I think all of this is extremely naive, like something one would tell oneself to rationalize rooting for, and possibly even enjoying, watching people you've never met die.

Westerners like to believe the average Russian has a choice because we have the luxury to think that way ... because we do have choice. The average Russian does not, has not, will not.

And what few on this board seem to realize--and probably fewer would admit--is that 99 percent of us would do no differently than those Russians if we were in their shoes and grew up in the same situation. We would be that poor idiot, spending the final desperate seconds of his life frantically evading a drone as it bore down upon him only to disappear in a puff of smoke and then reappear, body motionless and limbs askew.

My intention here is not to insult or embarrass you, but to point out that many of the Russians you see dying in those videos are just as much victims as the Ukrainian citizens and soldiers. They are merely pawns in some demented despot's lust for power and real estate.

It is one thing to recognize their deaths as unavoidable casualties if those deaths ultimately help stop Putin and preserve Ukraine's freedom.

But it's another thing entirely to deceive yourself into thinking that having those deaths broadcast on a social media platform for all the Western World to laugh at was in any way their choice ... or that you would have somehow acted any nobler.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

They didn't all have those choices. Maybe in some sense they did, but realistically they didn't. If you have a family, going to war or going to prison only to be sent to war isn't much of a choice. If you are too poor to flee the country that isn't much of a choice. If trying to surrender gets you shot by blocking brigades, not much of a choice. And what opportunity is there for an uneducated peasant to change their country? War is hell. It chews up and spits out the corpses of the innocent. That's no defense of Russia or any kind of statement about how Ukrain should do things differently. It's just a statement of fact. 

[BamaATL 16592]

4 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I think all of this is extremely naive, like something one would tell oneself to rationalize rooting for, and possibly even enjoying, watching people you've never met die.

Westerners like to believe the average Russian has a choice because we have the luxury to think that way ... because we do have choice. The average Russian does not, has not, will not.

And what few on this board seem to realize--and probably fewer would admit--is that 99 percent of us would do no differently than those Russians if we were in their shoes and grew up in the same situation. We would be that poor idiot, spending the final desperate seconds of his life frantically evading a drone as it bore down upon him only to disappear in a puff of smoke and then reappear, body motionless and limbs askew.

My intention here is not to insult or embarrass you, but to point out that many of the Russians you see dying in those videos are just as much victims as the Ukrainian citizens and soldiers. They are merely pawns in some demented despot's lust for power and real estate.

It is one thing to recognize their deaths as unavoidable casualties if those deaths ultimately help stop Putin and preserve Ukraine's freedom.

But it's another thing entirely to deceive yourself into thinking that having those deaths broadcast on a social media platform for all the Western World to laugh at was in any way their choice ... or that you would have somehow acted any nobler.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, which is completely fine.  They took the money, the refused to surrender, and they killed civilians.  Most of us would not in fact choose to do any of that.  Even in the cases of extreme poverty, of which there are many in Russia, they still choose to do things that most all of us, poor or not, know are deeply immoral.  If they themselves didn't do it, they certainly knew of it.  

You do have a valid point, in that some of them, perhaps many, had no idea of what they were initially getting into.  However, shortly upon arrival, this all had to abundantly clear.  I would also point out, that again, they had choices, to include surrendering, and they choose not to.  

[KYHorn 16751]

Large drone attack on Moscow

My emotioal side is glad to see some retribution but my cognitive and moral sides don't want to see Ukraine hitting residential towers.

Unless this is the explanation... Then, fuck em

 

[B00M 6235]

6 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I think all of this is extremely naive, like something one would tell oneself to rationalize rooting for, and possibly even enjoying, watching people you've never met die.

Westerners like to believe the average Russian has a choice because we have the luxury to think that way ... because we do have choice. The average Russian does not, has not, will not.

And what few on this board seem to realize--and probably fewer would admit--is that 99 percent of us would do no differently than those Russians if we were in their shoes and grew up in the same situation. We would be that poor idiot, spending the final desperate seconds of his life frantically evading a drone as it bore down upon him only to disappear in a puff of smoke and then reappear, body motionless and limbs askew.

My intention here is not to insult or embarrass you, but to point out that many of the Russians you see dying in those videos are just as much victims as the Ukrainian citizens and soldiers. They are merely pawns in some demented despot's lust for power and real estate.

It is one thing to recognize their deaths as unavoidable casualties if those deaths ultimately help stop Putin and preserve Ukraine's freedom.

But it's another thing entirely to deceive yourself into thinking that having those deaths broadcast on a social media platform for all the Western World to laugh at was in any way their choice ... or that you would have somehow acted any nobler.

 

[KYHorn 16751]

Sweden's latest military aid package for Ukraine is intriguing, because it contains in the first position the "Acquisition of materiel parts for the JAS 39 Gripen", clearly teasing the potential delivery of the Swedish fighter jet.

The whole package has a worth of SEK 48.1 billion, around $4.6 billion.

 

[Chad Fuck 17437]

[/url] Sweden's latest military aid package for Ukraine is intriguing, because it contains in the first position the "Acquisition of materiel parts for the JAS 39 Gripen", clearly teasing the potential delivery of the Swedish fighter jet.
The whole package has a worth of SEK 48.1 billion, around $4.6 billion.
 

And recall but a few months ago, Sweden was neutral. Now going hard into the paint for NATO. Well done Putin.

[SydneyCarton 47808]

Some good points about having a chocie versus not having a choice in this page. Yes, they had a choice to take the money and fight. Is it a choice we would have made? Almost certainly not. But there is to something to the fact that Russians didn't have much of a chance. It's hard to understand the mindset they live in, becuase we don't have the same conditions, although some of us are trying to inch us that way. We can't imagine what it's like to live in a life where you've been fed nothing but propoganda you're entire life, where your conditions have entirely been fealty to the state or prison. 

I don't weep for a single Russian in this war. But I can stand back and still think that many of them never had a fucking chance. Becuase they didn't. And if many did, they probably didn't even recognize their chance, becuase their culture is decayed and drunk. The ones that fled had resources and had access to western ideas and people, often through work, which pierce the veil of propoganda and have outside perspectives. The "mud bloods" from the steppes of eastern russia who grew up in villages that barely had power and were conscripted to fight for their country...man, they didn't have much of a chance. And that's becuase of many factors, inlcluding choices made by Russia generations before they were born.

But fuck them regardless. The whole society needs to be razed. 

Edited September 10 by SydneyCarton

[KYHorn 16751]

This is so long and drawn out. Just do it already.

 

 

[Superhero 8689]

[atomheartbevo 89292]

3 hours ago, KYHorn said:

My emotioal side is glad to see some retribution but my cognitive and moral sides don't want to see Ukraine hitting residential towers.

 

My instinct says that by the time they get to Moscow, there's nobody in Ukraine controlling them because the jamming around Moscow has to be intense - these aren't Russian ballistic missiles where the Russians could ostensibly aim them at military targets but chose civilian because Putin gonna Putin or because they have accuracy problems so they pick large civilian areas to hit something.  I'm spitballing, but it would not surprise me if Ukraine built these to work around GPS jamming by having them fly a certain compass direction for X amount of time.

On the one hand, it could/would play right into Putin's whole "we had to invade Ukraine to protect Mother Russia" bullshit.

On the other hand, it's destroying Putin's image as protector and guarantor of Russia.  People in Moscow were probably trying to ignore the Kursk invasion (although I'm sure everybody in Russia has it in the back of their mind), but it's hard to ignore this, and it's pretty clear that things are only going to get worse for Moscow.  If we are not able to help Ukraine enough on the battlefield with aid (it's fucking stupid we have thousands of vehicles and aircraft sitting in the desert, that we are never going to use again and are paying a pretty penny to store), Ukraine's wisest move might be to hunker down and bleed Russia on the battlefield, and just hammer Russian cities with drones.

But there's a bright spot - Putin will have to redeploy a shitload of air defense systems to Moscow and St. Petersburg.  That opens up the battlefield airspace for more Ukrainian drones and aircraft.

And Ukraine maybe able to crank out drones faster than Russia can build new AD systems to protect the areas they are having to pull existing AD systems out of, so Crimea may become even more vulnerable (Putin loves Crimea, but he'll have to choose between Crimea and Moscow).

 

[bolverk 29195]

 

Ukraine identifies Russian general suspected of ordering strike on Kyiv children's hospital

Ukrainian authorities on Sept. 10 announced war crime charges in absentia against Russian Lieutenant General Sergey Kobylash over a deadly strike against the Ohkmadyt children's hospital in Kyiv two months ago.

Russian forces hit Ukraine's largest children's medical center on July 8, killing two adults and injuring at least 34 people, including nine children. Footage showed that the building suffered a direct hit by a Russian missile rather than being damaged by fallen debris.

Kobylash, who at the time served as Russia's long-range aviation commander, ordered the missile strike that hit the hospital, according to an investigation published by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the Prosecutor General's Office.

The general already faces other charges connected to the full-scale war in Ukraine, and the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued a warrant for his arrest for attacks against Ukraine's energy infrastructure.

"The investigation established that it was him (Kobylash), who, on July 8, 2024... gave the order to a unit under his command to carry out a strike from the Tu-95MS bomber plane with a cruise missile Kh-101 against the Okhmadyt hospital's premises," Prosecutor General Andrii Kostin said on Sept. 10 while speaking at the site of the attack.

Kobylash gave the order at around 9:15 a.m., while the hospital was struck at 10:45 a.m., the SBU clarified.

"As part of the investigation, the SBU and the Prosecutor General's Office... talked to 112 victims and 50 eyewitnesses, conducted explosive, forensic, and other examinations, and analyzed video surveillance footage," SBU deputy head Serhii Naumiuk said.

The missile, fired from a plane of the 22nd Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Division, kept maneuvering and changing its flight path, indicating an intention to bypass Ukrainian air defenses and hit the medical facility, the SBU said.

The SBU charged Kobylash last January over "massive rocket attacks on residential buildings, hospitals, and critical infrastructure facilities in various regions of Ukraine."

In March 2024, the ICC issued arrest warrants for Kobylash and Russian Admiral Viktor Sokolov for ordering strikes against the Ukrainian electricity infrastructure during the winter of 2022 to 2023, which led to extensive blackouts across the country.

[Chad Fuck 17437]

3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

Ukraine identifies Russian general suspected of ordering strike on Kyiv children's hospital

Ukrainian authorities on Sept. 10 announced war crime charges in absentia against Russian Lieutenant General Sergey Kobylash over a deadly strike against the Ohkmadyt children's hospital in Kyiv two months ago.

Russian forces hit Ukraine's largest children's medical center on July 8, killing two adults and injuring at least 34 people, including nine children. Footage showed that the building suffered a direct hit by a Russian missile rather than being damaged by fallen debris.

Kobylash, who at the time served as Russia's long-range aviation commander, ordered the missile strike that hit the hospital, according to an investigation published by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the Prosecutor General's Office.

The general already faces other charges connected to the full-scale war in Ukraine, and the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued a warrant for his arrest for attacks against Ukraine's energy infrastructure.

"The investigation established that it was him (Kobylash), who, on July 8, 2024... gave the order to a unit under his command to carry out a strike from the Tu-95MS bomber plane with a cruise missile Kh-101 against the Okhmadyt hospital's premises," Prosecutor General Andrii Kostin said on Sept. 10 while speaking at the site of the attack.

Kobylash gave the order at around 9:15 a.m., while the hospital was struck at 10:45 a.m., the SBU clarified.

"As part of the investigation, the SBU and the Prosecutor General's Office... talked to 112 victims and 50 eyewitnesses, conducted explosive, forensic, and other examinations, and analyzed video surveillance footage," SBU deputy head Serhii Naumiuk said.

The missile, fired from a plane of the 22nd Guards Heavy Bomber Aviation Division, kept maneuvering and changing its flight path, indicating an intention to bypass Ukrainian air defenses and hit the medical facility, the SBU said.

The SBU charged Kobylash last January over "massive rocket attacks on residential buildings, hospitals, and critical infrastructure facilities in various regions of Ukraine."

In March 2024, the ICC issued arrest warrants for Kobylash and Russian Admiral Viktor Sokolov for ordering strikes against the Ukrainian electricity infrastructure during the winter of 2022 to 2023, which led to extensive blackouts across the country.

Here we go again.

[bolverk 29195]

Some pretty intense fighting in this 12+ minute clip. It starts sometime overnight and stretches well past dawn. No gore but the body cams catch a few dead Russians and at least a couple of Ukrainian casualties. Stick around for the end -- those UA soldiers look exhausted.

 

[Nivek 16738]

9 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I think all of this is extremely naive, like something one would tell oneself to rationalize rooting for, and possibly even enjoying, watching people you've never met die.

Westerners like to believe the average Russian has a choice because we have the luxury to think that way ... because we do have choice. The average Russian does not, has not, will not.

And what few on this board seem to realize--and probably fewer would admit--is that 99 percent of us would do no differently than those Russians if we were in their shoes and grew up in the same situation. We would be that poor idiot, spending the final desperate seconds of his life frantically evading a drone as it bore down upon him only to disappear in a puff of smoke and then reappear, body motionless and limbs askew.

My intention here is not to insult or embarrass you, but to point out that many of the Russians you see dying in those videos are just as much victims as the Ukrainian citizens and soldiers. They are merely pawns in some demented despot's lust for power and real estate.

It is one thing to recognize their deaths as unavoidable casualties if those deaths ultimately help stop Putin and preserve Ukraine's freedom.

But it's another thing entirely to deceive yourself into thinking that having those deaths broadcast on a social media platform for all the Western World to laugh at was in any way their choice ... or that you would have somehow acted any nobler.

Not necessarily.   Some of us grow up and differentiate from the society around us and our own familiar networks.  My family strongly identified as Republicans most here know I am not.  I listened a little to the talk radio hate machine and saw it for what it was.   I do not derive my morality from external sources and I need no fear of eternal punishment to act as guardrails.  So no, if I grew up there, I would not have listened to the order to rape the children in front of the mom.   

Yeah, it might suck for pawns in the system, but let's be real.  They are complicit.  They allow their government to exist.  Even when handed weapons, they allow their government to tell them where to point them.  Just following orders was not a defense for the crimes of the Nazi's and it won't be one here.  Each person is responsible for their actions.   We could forgive a child soldier who had a gun to their head from pulling the trigger on another child.  We cannot absolve an adult from doing the same.  

[atomheartbevo 89292]

3 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Yeah, it might suck for pawns in the system, but let's be real.  They are complicit.  They allow their government to exist.  Even when handed weapons, they allow their government to tell them where to point them.  Just following orders was not a defense for the crimes of the Nazi's and it won't be one here.  Each person is responsible for their actions.   We could forgive a child soldier who had a gun to their head from pulling the trigger on another child.  We cannot absolve an adult from doing the same.  

There is nothing stopping them from turning their guns on the Chechens acting as blocking units, and then surrendering to the Ukrainians.

[KYHorn 16751]

The host of the influential podcast, Ukraine the Latest, has died. This podcast has provided daily updates on the war since it started and is widely listened to worldwide. 

David Knowles, creator of Ukraine: The Latest podcast, has passed away on September 9, at just 32 years old. Mr. Knowles joined The Telegraph's editorial team in 2020 as deputy head of social media. He was later promoted to head of social media. With the start of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, David created the podcast Ukraine: The Latest. He and his team provided listeners with daily updates on events on the frontline and the rear. The podcast became one of the most successful news programs dedicated to the war in Ukraine. In 2024, Ukraine: The Latest won the Best News Podcast award at the Publisher Podcast Awards and had nearly 100 million downloads. David has traveled to Ukraine four times to cover the struggle of Ukrainians against Russia from the ground. He shared stories about ordinary people who suffered from Russia's aggression. Unfortunately, I did not know David personally. But he was a true friend of Ukraine. It is a great loss for us. RIP. David's colleagues plan to continue the podcast. Here is its latest episode: https://youtu.be/CwJyqfSiPYc?si=wj-bk1k0Ld3g0Qk5…

 

 Here's the brief podcast announcing his death:

 

 

Edited September 10 by KYHorn

[SydneyCarton 47808]

29 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

My instinct says that by the time they get to Moscow, there's nobody in Ukraine controlling them because the jamming around Moscow has to be intense - these aren't Russian ballistic missiles where the Russians could ostensibly aim them at military targets but chose civilian because Putin gonna Putin or because they have accuracy problems so they pick large civilian areas to hit something.  I'm spitballing, but it would not surprise me if Ukraine built these to work around GPS jamming by having them fly a certain compass direction for X amount of time.

On the one hand, it could/would play right into Putin's whole "we had to invade Ukraine to protect Mother Russia" bullshit.

On the other hand, it's destroying Putin's image as protector and guarantor of Russia.  People in Moscow were probably trying to ignore the Kursk invasion (although I'm sure everybody in Russia has it in the back of their mind), but it's hard to ignore this, and it's pretty clear that things are only going to get worse for Moscow.  If we are not able to help Ukraine enough on the battlefield with aid (it's fucking stupid we have thousands of vehicles and aircraft sitting in the desert, that we are never going to use again and are paying a pretty penny to store), Ukraine's wisest move might be to hunker down and bleed Russia on the battlefield, and just hammer Russian cities with drones.

But there's a bright spot - Putin will have to redeploy a shitload of air defense systems to Moscow and St. Petersburg.  That opens up the battlefield airspace for more Ukrainian drones and aircraft.

And Ukraine maybe able to crank out drones faster than Russia can build new AD systems to protect the areas they are having to pull existing AD systems out of, so Crimea may become even more vulnerable (Putin loves Crimea, but he'll have to choose between Crimea and Moscow).

 

I think UKraine actually launching attacks on Moscow, with real missiles, not drones, is the one thing that might make Putin use a nuke. 

[bolverk 29195]

Man, ol' Dirtovich Bikeski is gonna have some real fucked up stories to share around the office that'll then get spread around to some Russian sports message board one day...if he survives.

 

 

 

[Nivek 16738]

13 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

There is nothing stopping them from turning their guns on the Chechens acting as blocking units, and then surrendering to the Ukrainians.

They may not want to surrender to Ukrainians out of fear of the unknown.  But to play the role of a pawn and carry out the orders of a brutal regime is to be complicit.   They may not have a lot of legal freedoms but they have options.     

[InkaUtexas 25185]

There is another angle in Russia. Leaders have shown little hesitation to go after families or entire regions. History does matter. Russians support despotic leaders, and reap the rewards and horrors at some point. This is their history going back to the Tsars.

Recently perhaps hope was real liberalism would come. But everyone was fooled. Russia is gonna Russia.

I keep waiting for the military to make a move against Putin. They are the only ones who can and historically have. Any uprisings by the population will not work. They allow their leaders to live in isolation and protected. Will the Russians storm Putin's palace in Sochi? Nope. Will they go back to bread lines in the rural towns? Yep.

[elfenix 34156]

On 9/9/2024 at 8:43 AM, Brisketexan said:

Never write off German.  Daughter is well into her job of medical market research - she's been assigned mostly covering Switzerland, as she speaks German and French (her colleague who speaks only German is mostly covering Austria, which is fine with the daughter because, as he explains, "Austrian doctors are dicks").  Anyway, she is learning some new stuff, like this fucking metal term: entzündliche darmerkrankung.  Well, I mean, it SOUNDS metal.  But it just means "inflammatory bowel disease."  Still, I foresee a future German weapons platform, maybe a multiple rocket launcher, called "Entzündliche Darmerkrankung."

 

[B00M 6235]

53 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

There is nothing stopping them from turning their guns on the Chechens acting as blocking units, and then surrendering to the Ukrainians.

Didn’t some conscripts in Kursk recently face this choice and find a way to surrender? 

[KYHorn 16751]

 

 

 

  

Edited September 10 by KYHorn

[brakeman 28186]

 

[RDCanecutter 26161]

14 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

Also why aren't these guys given any shotguns? 

Or training? Or not sent in meatwave attacks? Answer to all questions is the same.

[Hefeweizen 5305]

51 minutes ago, brakeman said:

 

Don’t like seeing residential buildings hit but this may be from shooting down?

[Laxtonto 11889]

1 hour ago, KYHorn said:

 

 

 

  

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/8b060c46ee6f49908f9fb415ad23051c

[InkaUtexas 25185]

So the bridge is fucked. Nice.

What is missing is where are the drones flying from? Hit them as well.

How many can we give them? Like tomorrow? I am sure there are some sitting in storage in Europe.

[RDCanecutter 26161]

1 hour ago, KYHorn said:

 

 

 

  

Sounds like what somebody'd say who's about to slam Iran up against a wall.

[InkaUtexas 25185]

Just now, RDCanecutter said:

Sounds like what somebody'd say who's about to slam Iran up against a wall.

With what? Go back to the old nuke deal? Iran don't care. Sanction their trading partners? Like the UAE?

[Chad Fuck 17437]

9 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Don’t like seeing residential buildings hit but this may be from shooting down?

I read somewhere else they may've winged it and once knocked off course that's where it landed.

Sorry but not sorry for the Russian civilians.  On second though, tough shit.  Karma's a bitch.

Edited September 10 by Chad Fuck

[TeeDubya 3358]

44 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I read somewhere else they may've winged it and once knocked off course that's where it landed.

Sorry but not sorry for the Russian civilians.  On second though, tough shit.  Karma's a bitch.

It’s a war, a shooting war, that their leader started. Tough shit is right…

[Chopper 17038]

2 hours ago, KYHorn said:

 

"The potential delivery of ATACMS was reportedly one of the reasons Iranian SRBM deliveries did not materialize in late 2022 or early 2023.

If this rumor is confirmed—and please exercise caution until it is—it would signify the U.S. finally presenting Russia with consequences."

  

So from what I've read ATACMS > SRBM in terms of destructive power, ability to hit a wider area, and accuracy. Seems like a bad trade for RZ if that's the consequence for buying Iranian missiles. 

[Dahobbs 17314]

25 minutes ago, Chopper said:

So from what I've read ATACMS > SRBM in terms of destructive power, ability to hit a wider area, and accuracy. Seems like a bad trade for RZ if that's the consequence for buying Iranian missiles. 

Doesn't SRBM just mean short range ballistic missile? It isn't a particular missile, just a type. ATACMS would be a SRBM. 

[Parliament 14064]

One errant drone on an apartment doesn’t make Ukraine war criminals.  Munitions fail, civilians die.

Personally I believe it’s worth the risk?  They sent 144 last night?  Send 244 tonight.  And 344 tomorrow.  Etc. Etc.

[Chopper 17038]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Doesn't SRBM just mean short range ballistic missile? It isn't a particular missile, just a type. ATACMS would be a SRBM. 

Yes in this case it's the Fateh-110 that Iran has sent to RZ.

[TeeDubya 3358]

47 minutes ago, Chopper said:

So from what I've read ATACMS > SRBM in terms of destructive power, ability to hit a wider area, and accuracy. Seems like a bad trade for RZ if that's the consequence for buying Iranian missiles. 

ATACMS has multiple warhead options too, similar to HIMARS:  unitary warheads or multiple bomblets.

In US inventory, the Precision Strike Missile is being delivered to replace the ATACMS.

[KYHorn 16751]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

So from what I've read ATACMS > SRBM in terms of destructive power, ability to hit a wider area, and accuracy. Seems like a bad trade for RZ if that's the consequence for buying Iranian missiles. 

It has become clear that the red line the US established with Russia behind the scenes was "even though Ukraine doesn't have any, you can shoot your own ballistic missiles at whatever you want, just don't shoot anyone else's." I can see how Biden and Jake Sullivan felt they were trying to contain the escalation, but it's still a pretty dumb red line. I imagine Russia used this advantage for all it was worth until they felt the time was right for them to establish a new pipeline of ballistic missiles. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21772]

We need to start taking out that Iranian stuff in transit

[AUS-97HORN 11577]

1 minute ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

We need to start taking out that Iranian stuff in transit

i am up for breaking all international law regarding useage of shipping on the high seas.... or even just the Caspian Sea. 

[BamaATL 16592]

A great idea

 

[dimyh 1874]

Regarding the US weapons restrictions:

1) Ukraine should have been cleared for full use ages ago.

2) Once they are cleared, the only notification we should have provided is watching Ruskie shit blowing up and down the map while Putin screams "WHAT THE FUCK" into his 1995 speaker phone.

No advanced notification, no big warning, just a big helping of FAFO for them to chew on.

[Bevo 13465]

5 minutes ago, dimyh said:

Regarding the US weapons restrictions:

1) Ukraine should have been cleared for full use ages ago.

2) Once they are cleared, the only notification we should have provided is watching Ruskie shit blowing up and down the map while Putin screams "WHAT THE FUCK" into his 1995 speaker phone.

No advanced notification, no big warning, just a big helping of FAFO for them to chew on.

 

This is correct. Advanced notification is done purposefully to allow Russia time to move facilities and save equipment. Our goals might be stated as preventing escalation but the end result we know - it costs Ukranian lives, saves Russian lives and prolongs the war.

[Jameslaw121 4440]

Quote

io

In the nearly two years since Russia invaded Ukraine, 300,000 Russian soldiers have died or been wounded, many of them conscripts. For soldiers from Siberia and Russia’s Far East, home to many of Russia’s ethnic minorities, the price has been 

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/russias-ethnic-minorities-disproportionately-conscripted-to-fight-the-war-in-ukraine

 

I understand the need to kill any Russian soldier they can. I'm not a fan of hitting civilians in Moscow. But, I may be wrong and probably am, but I have more empathy for the ethnic minorities than I do the civilians in Moscow. Moscow citizens remind me too much of the elites in Germany who knew what was happening turned a blind eye to the Holocaust.

I think Putin is purposely using the certain groups as meatgrinder soldiers to effectively ethnic cleanse larger parts of Russia 

[Deej 76328]

7 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

I read somewhere else they may've winged it and once knocked off course that's where it landed.

Sorry but not sorry for the Russian civilians.  On second though, tough shit.  Karma's a bitch.