Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[Brisketexan 106431]

1 hour ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

A lot of speculation they are running out of smart munitions and with sanctions are going to have a hard time building new ones.  RU fired over 70 missiles on the 27th and all but 8 of them got shot down so something new is in theatre.

Some idiot leaked OpSec that it will take 5 years of 3 shifts for Lockheed to replenish the Javelin stocks sent to Ukraine.

Maybe.  But.....how many are we going to need anytime soon?  The opponent we're most likely to need to use them against -- Russia -- is having its vehicle stocks pre-depleted, with little ability to replenish them.

Man, wish I'd bought some Lockheed stock last year.

[Orange&White 5563]

1 hour ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

A lot of speculation they are running out of smart munitions and with sanctions are going to have a hard time building new ones.

It seems like this speculation stared three days after the war started and gets repeated every other day. Obviously it would be great if it is true and they eventually have to run out, but I am in the "I'll believe it when I see it" phase now.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3873]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe.  But.....how many are we going to need anytime soon?  The opponent we're most likely to need to use them against -- Russia -- is having its vehicle stocks pre-depleted, with little ability to replenish them.

Man, wish I'd bought some Lockheed stock last year.

This plus drones are way cheaper and do not require an infantry squad to engage a tank.

One of the war studies guys said the sky below 4,000 feet now belongs to the army.

Edited March 28, 2022 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Bevo 13805]

51 minutes ago, GW Hayduke said:

Russian oligarchs, those around putin, or the rest of the russian population decide they don't want to be North Korea anymore and then do the right thing.  "Putin cannot remain in power" were accurate words 

Yeah, this is the only other possibility as I see it. But, that is kind of going on hope so I didn't include it although I probably should have. There aren't many good outcomes in this proxy war unless Putin is removed from office. With Putin staying in power, I don't think we can put enough pressure on Russia for them to give up Donbas and Crimea. And I don't see much reason for Ukraine to accept giving up land when it is succeeding on the battlefield. The West could force the issue and make Ukraine negotiate, but I think that would be a huge mistake for long-term geopolitical reasons.

[BabaYaga 15513]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe.  But.....how many are we going to need anytime soon?  The opponent we're most likely to need to use them against -- Russia -- is having its vehicle stocks pre-depleted, with little ability to replenish them.

Man, wish I'd bought some Lockheed stock last year.

We have ("allegedly") Spec Ops teams operating is more than 80 countries across the globe.  Jav's are a part of most.  I know many of the bases in Afghanistan had them due to their range and accuracy.  

There was a SEAL on a podcast that talked about how their base was under constant harassment because the enemy sat back with 12.7mm and 14.5mm guns and just kept strafing the base and were outside the range of most conventional arms.  So one day he was like fuck it, and they identified the shooters (who moved around all the time and were not deemed worthy of costly air support) and he dropped a few straight down on top of them.  He'd take his .300 Win Mag and a pair of Jav's and get up high for over watch.  Anything beyond the range of the rifle earned a missile up their ass.  

As a longer range precision guided option, my guess is they are in high demand in almost every scenario and used well beyond just taking our armor.  Vehicles.  Gun emplacements.  Spotters/snipers.  Most anything

[956 Worldwide 35422]

5 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Yeah, this is the only other possibility as I see it. But, that is kind of going on hope so I didn't include it although I probably should have. There aren't many good outcomes in this proxy war unless Putin is removed from office. With Putin staying in power, I don't think we can put enough pressure on Russia for them to give up Donbas and Crimea. And I don't see much reason for Ukraine to accept giving up land when it is succeeding on the battlefield. The West could force the issue and make Ukraine negotiate, but I think that would be a huge mistake for long-term geopolitical reasons.

Cross posting from the CR thread.

I will add some local context from the Polish/Slovak/Czech press and commentating class (excluding Kremlobots).  They’re calling it one of the best speeches by a President in recent history and a “Kennedy in Berlin moment.”

The U.S. cares far more about the “ad libbed” line.  Here on the front line, the idea that Putin needs to go is seen as patently obvious. Biden’s saying so is taken as a breath of fresh air and the courage to state the obvious.  They didn’t think it needed clarification or walk-backs and are fully capable of understanding that saying something should happen doesn’t mean that the U.S. is actually going to undertake regime change.  This is the land of Walesea, JPII, and Havel where people view the statement of obvious truths as a needed and courageous act and where they view equivocation as something the Commies used to do. 
 

I have long argued that we need to spend more time and energy tending to friendships than we do to tiptoeing around assholes who hate us, so my take— don’t get salty over this “gaffe.”

[JesusSweatDuck 18033]

52 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Russia is whining that NATO is prolonging the conflict

 

Russia may have given Ukraine more weapons than NATO at this point

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3873]

I recently posted that sending a bunch of four wheelers to Ukraine seemed like a good idea. Apparently, that is what the Ukraine drone SOF already uses.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/28/the-drone-operators-who-halted-the-russian-armoured-vehicles-heading-for-kyiv

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

13 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

It's unbelievable to  see such catastrophic execution in near real time.  Like watching a Tom Herman coached team run the same stupid play that doesn't work over, over, over.

Too soon, man.

[atomheartbevo 90480]

Huge if true.  

 

[BabaYaga 15513]

Jesus.  From the 80's?  Might help explain why UA aircraft and still flying

 

[KYHorn 17516]

57 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Rough for the family members, but a lot of these soldiers are volunteers so FAFO.

Digging a bit more into this, the guy making the call seems to be one of the actual Nazis that Russia is trying to portray all Ukrainians as. He is also suspected to have played a role in the killing of the Ukrainian MMA fighter. See thread here:

 

 

[Bevo 13805]

16 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

We have ("allegedly") Spec Ops teams operating is more than 80 countries across the globe.  Jav's are a part of most.  I know many of the bases in Afghanistan had them due to their range and accuracy.  

There was a SEAL on a podcast that talked about how their base was under constant harassment because the enemy sat back with 12.7mm and 14.5mm guns and just kept strafing the base and were outside the range of most conventional arms.  So one day he was like fuck it, and they identified the shooters (who moved around all the time and were not deemed worthy of costly air support) and he dropped a few straight down on top of them.  He'd take his .300 Win Mag and a pair of Jav's and get up high for over watch.  Anything beyond the range of the rifle earned a missile up their ass.  

As a longer range precision guided option, my guess is they are in high demand in almost every scenario and used well beyond just taking our armor.  Vehicles.  Gun emplacements.  Spotters/snipers.  Most anything

Jav's are probably too expensive to regularly use on a couple of shooters strafing the base. There probably needs to be an intermediate weapon of some sort.

[Laxtonto 12994]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep, they are LOVING every minute of this.  They are also getting a box-suite view of a modern battlefield and are taking notes.  So much R&D will come from this along with freshly inflated defense spending.....the technological progeny of this fight will be significant.  It's going to be some Call of Duty/Battlefield type shit that my kid plays.  

I think too many people are downplaying what this really means from a warfare standpoint and are getting swept up in the heroic Ukrainian defense narrative vs the small group tech advantage can decimate armor and limited air support topic.

Armor, in the current Russian approach/viewpoint, is now pointless in any theater in which infantry can get within  1 or 2 km of the target. The risk/reward of UAV+Jav 2 man group  taking out a tank is way slanted towards 2 man team. The economic investment of in the production of one modern battle tank as well as the training and personnel required to service and operate it can be quickly nullified by dudes with limited specialized training due to technology.

 

So outside of true blitz style large rolling attacks with a combined integrated infantry screen and total air control that allows for pinpoint retaliatory attacks, how would Russian tanks provide value on the battlefield? Beyond being used as a fixed gun emplacement dug in to limit exposure, what is an efficient use of the current technology?

The Russian have lost something close to the size of the French or English entire tank core (don’t remember which… it’s back a few pages) while the Ukrainians have actually added more captures than losses. The infantry tech is owning the battlefield and now war has to change to better mirror this new facet.

[CooterBrown 18265]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

[BabaYaga 15513]

1 minute ago, Bevo said:

Jav's are probably too expensive to regularly use on a couple of shooters strafing the base. There probably needs to be an intermediate weapon of some sort.

There probably does.  But when there is not one, and Jav's are available, they seem to get used.  Big difference between the budgets of front line infantry and SOCOM/JSOC units.  

[Bevo 13805]

13 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Cross posting from the CR thread.

 

I will add some local context from the Polish/Slovak/Czech press and commentating class (excluding Kremlobots).  They’re calling it one of the best speeches by a President in recent history and a “Kennedy in Berlin moment.”

The U.S. cares far more about the “ad libbed” line.  Here on the front line, the idea that Putin needs to go is seen as patently obvious. Biden’s saying so is taken as a breath of fresh air and the courage to state the obvious.  They didn’t think it needed clarification or walk-backs and are fully capable of understanding that saying something should happen doesn’t mean that the U.S. is actually going to undertake regime change.  This is the land of Walesea, JPII, and Havel where people view the statement of obvious truths as a needed and courageous act and where they view equivocation as something the Commies used to do. 
 

I have long argued that we need to spend more time and energy tending to friendships than we do to tiptoeing around assholes who hate us, so my take— don’t get salty over this “gaffe.”

That seems purely political. Let's see what actions happen when there is already walk back from the talk of regime change.

[BabaYaga 15513]

2 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I think too many people are downplaying what this really means from a warfare standpoint and are getting swept up in the heroic Ukrainian defense narrative vs the small group tech advantage can decimate armor and limited air support topic.

Armor, in the current Russian approach/viewpoint, is now pointless in any theater in which infantry can get within  1 or 2 km of the target. The risk/reward of UAV+Jav 2 man group  taking out a tank is way slanted towards 2 man team. The economic investment of in the production of one modern battle tank as well as the training and personnel required to service and operate it can be quickly nullified by dudes with limited specialized training due to technology.

 

So outside of true blitz style large rolling attacks with a combined integrated infantry screen and total air control that allows for pinpoint retaliatory attacks, how would Russian tanks provide value on the battlefield? Beyond being used as a fixed gun emplacement dug in to limit exposure, what is an efficient use of the current technology?

The Russian have lost something close to the size of the French or English entire tank core (don’t remember which… it’s back a few pages) while the Ukrainians have actually added more captures than losses. The infantry tech is owning the battlefield and now war has to change to better mirror this new facet.

Yep.  Tanks are only going to be viable either in support of or with supporting infantry.  Combined and coordinated support that take a lot of time, money, and training to execute properly.  Then the paradigm will shift back when the tech is available to defeat these shaped-charged attacks (as we saw with layered/Chobham-style armor)

[SimonBolivar 11004]

8 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I think too many people are downplaying what this really means from a warfare standpoint and are getting swept up in the heroic Ukrainian defense narrative vs the small group tech advantage can decimate armor and limited air support topic.

Armor, in the current Russian approach/viewpoint, is now pointless in any theater in which infantry can get within  1 or 2 km of the target. The risk/reward of UAV+Jav 2 man group  taking out a tank is way slanted towards 2 man team. The economic investment of in the production of one modern battle tank as well as the training and personnel required to service and operate it can be quickly nullified by dudes with limited specialized training due to technology.

 

So outside of true blitz style large rolling attacks with a combined integrated infantry screen and total air control that allows for pinpoint retaliatory attacks, how would Russian tanks provide value on the battlefield? Beyond being used as a fixed gun emplacement dug in to limit exposure, what is an efficient use of the current technology?

The Russian have lost something close to the size of the French or English entire tank core (don’t remember which… it’s back a few pages) while the Ukrainians have actually added more captures than losses. The infantry tech is owning the battlefield and now war has to change to better mirror this new facet.

Tank = 

 

 

 

Which means that if Russia is like my place of employment they will spend billions keeping a machine that makes tanks in operation.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3873]

17 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

The Russian have lost something close to the size of the French or English entire tank core (don’t remember which… it’s back a few pages) while the Ukrainians have actually added more captures than losses. The infantry tech is owning the battlefield and now war has to change to better mirror this new facet.

Entire French plus half of the English.

[gsoda3 3356]

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3873]

9 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Tank = 

 

 

 

Which means that if Russia is like my place of employment they will spend billions keeping a machine that makes tanks in operation.

But it being tractor feed has me so confused right now.

[BabaYaga 15513]

It's still going to get out, but this is massive.  Guessing a few select countries are going to rake in massive amounts for a fraction of the market going rate on crude.  

 

 

[SimonBolivar 11004]

Sure is pretty

 

 

[Bevo 13805]

30 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

The Russian have lost something close to the size of the French or English entire tank core (don’t remember which… it’s back a few pages) while the Ukrainians have actually added more captures than losses. The infantry tech is owning the battlefield and now war has to change to better mirror this new facet.

I think it said the entire French tank core plus half of the British.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Bevo

[Parliament 14534]

"The end of armored warfare" has been predicted since the first 50 BMG punched a hole in a German tank in 1919.  We have counters to Javelins and such.  Infantry support tactics, TROPHY and stuff we haven't seen yet.

We don't gotta melt our Abrams's just yet.

[InkaUtexas 26776]

17 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

Bellingcat chiming in

 

[BabaYaga 15513]

12 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Sure is pretty

 

 

Love it.  We keep talking about Jav's, how about eleventy billion Claymores.  On thinner skinned support vehicles, nasty....

[InkaUtexas 26776]

1 minute ago, Parliament said:

"The end of armored warfare" has been predicted since the first 50 BMG punched a hole in a German tank in 1919.  We have counters to Javelins and such.  Infantry support tactics, TROPHY and stuff we haven't seen yet.

We don't gotta melt our Abrams's just yet.

Agree. Lets look at it like this. Russia tried to fight a war using 1940's tactics, 1980's equipment and messed up logistics. They do not have access to a Lend Lease program, I doubt the revolutionary spirit exists like it did in the past, so the morale of the people to suffer is just not there. 

 

[BabaYaga 15513]

3 minutes ago, Parliament said:

"The end of armored warfare" has been predicted since the first 50 BMG punched a hole in a German tank in 1919.  We have counters to Javelins and such.  Infantry support tactics, TROPHY and stuff we haven't seen yet.

We don't gotta melt our Abrams's just yet.

Our tanks would struggle as well.  They're on the main roads because of all the mud.  Time to break out the redneck brigade....

 

[Bateshorn 9985]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

[Pescado_Rojo 19544]

50 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Jav's are probably too expensive to regularly use on a couple of shooters strafing the base. There probably needs to be an intermediate weapon of some sort.

Raytheon sales guys say bite your tongue. 

They are probably working on an anti-personal load for the Javelin as we speak. Like a flying claymore or something nasty like that. 

[Chad Fuck 18071]

Russia is whining that NATO is prolonging the conflict
 

The replies are gold.

[BabaYaga 15513]

8 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Like a flying claymore or something nasty like that.

Oh Jesus.  A remote detonated claymore on a drone.  No thanks....

[Chad Fuck 18071]

 

I’ll cancel my summer trip to Russia. That’s a shame.

[SimonBolivar 11004]

1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Huge if true.  

 

 

[TexasEd 8241]

2 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

Russian oligarchs, those around putin, or the rest of the russian population decide they don't want to be North Korea anymore and then do the right thing.  "Putin cannot remain in power" were accurate words 

 

2 hours ago, utee94 said:

Lulz.  There's a simple solution to ending the hostilities in Ukraine.

 

2 hours ago, 686 said:

The bigger question in your scenario is: how long can Russia endure with its economy in tatters? Is a ~30-50% GDP reduction for years worth some little slivers of land?

The US defense budget alone is over $600B. We could keep sending Ukraine a billion a month in material, etc. and it would probably be some of the best ROI ever with how much we’re getting from Russia.

 

 

This final countdown language is supposed to scare us.

Edited March 28, 2022 by TexasEd

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2152]

 

[SimonBolivar 11004]

4 minutes ago, OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys said:

 

It's an illusion! A war is is something a whore does for money

[MissingInAction 25465]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Yep, they are LOVING every minute of this.  They are also getting a box-suite view of a modern battlefield and are taking notes.  So much R&D will come from this along with freshly inflated defense spending.....the technological progeny of this fight will be significant.  It's going to be some Call of Duty/Battlefield type shit that my kid plays.  

Indeed. The age of armor is over.

Gonna be dewdz in super suits and shit running around with high altitude air support from now on.

[Kel Varnsen 8682]

[MissingInAction 25465]

Tom Cruise WILL save us!

[BabaYaga 15513]

Just now, MissingInAction said:

Tom Cruise WILL save us!

Underrated movie.  I'd be really, really, really good at golf and jujitsu.  

[Brisketexan 106431]

57 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Our tanks would struggle as well.  They're on the main roads because of all the mud.  Time to break out the redneck brigade....

 

Reminds me of the time in high school when my buddies and I were at my uncle's ranch near Devine.  It had been a wet spring.  We liked to drink beer and take a jeep out at night to spotlight rabbits.  We got one jeep way stuck in the mud.  Decided to pull it out with another jeep.  Got that stuck.  Decided to pull those out with the old Ford tractor.  Got that stuck.  We then realized we should probably stop, hosed the mud off of ourselves and went to bed.  The next morning, under my grandfather's annoyed supervision, we used the big Case tractor to pull out all three.  Mud will fuck up your whole day.  And kill your buzz.

[Bevo 13805]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Underrated movie.  I'd be really, really, really good at golf and jujitsu.  

I'd be like really, really good at picking women up.

[Laxtonto 12994]

48 minutes ago, Parliament said:

"The end of armored warfare" has been predicted since the first 50 BMG punched a hole in a German tank in 1919.  We have counters to Javelins and such.  Infantry support tactics, TROPHY and stuff we haven't seen yet.

We don't gotta melt our Abrams's just yet.

The issue isn't our Abrams or in truth any of our military assets, it's the gulf between our infantry anti-tank and anti-air to most of the rest of the world's tanks and air assets.

We keep on running with the idea that everyone else is spending what we are on tech and equipment modernization, but they aren't or can't. Our infantry tech can be countered by both our air and our tank tech. But the gulf is so vast between our tech and most other nations that putting our tech on the battlefield against pretty much anyone that does have our tech and it is an instant mismatch slanted towards the infantry. Cost/benefit wise, no country can win a long-term engagement when their most expensive assets are being wiped out by infantry with no real counter. At some point, Russia will be down to full-on infantry trying to assault Ukrainian tank positions or infantry trying slow Ukrainian armored advances, without the benefit of our tech.

I am more curious how this influences Chinese doctrine and is the reluctance to supply Russia with military aid tied to the unwillingness to have their equipment placed into a proxy war vs the current US tech. 

[Eastwood 4394]

"The end of armored warfare" has been predicted since the first 50 BMG punched a hole in a German tank in 1919.  We have counters to Javelins and such.  Infantry support tactics, TROPHY and stuff we haven't seen yet.
We don't gotta melt our Abrams's just yet.

You protect the armor flanks with scouting detachments followed up by infantry in fast moving soft cover vehicles. We perfected the technique over two gulf wars and I guess Russia didn’t take notes.

[Kel Varnsen 8682]

2 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

You protect the armor flanks with scouting detachments followed up by infantry in fast moving soft cover vehicles. We perfected the technique over two gulf wars and I guess Russia didn’t take notes.

My understanding is they couldn't flank because of the mud

[CHIEF 5190]

4 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

A lot of speculation they are running out of smart munitions and with sanctions are going to have a hard time building new ones.  RU fired over 70 missiles on the 27th and all but 8 of them got shot down so something new is in theatre.

Some idiot leaked OpSec that it will take 5 years of 3 shifts for Lockheed to replenish the Javelin stocks sent to Ukraine.

The engineer that hires all of the other engineers, at the Ft. Worth Lockheed, was at my crawfish boil this weekend. He gave the hard sell to CHIEF Jr. (again) this weekend and told him to pick out his classmates that have true mechanical aptitude, and can turn wrenches to come apply. F-35 and F-16 orders are going through the roof. This has scared  the hell out of Europe, Japan, Turkey, and the Baltics. He said Lockheed is about to be building "balls to the wall". If any of you have a kid that is about to graduate with an engineering degree, feel free to DM me. It's a great job, with great benefits.

CHIEF

Edited March 28, 2022 by CHIEF

[686 3458]

I'd be like really, really good at picking women up.

Action movie Blunt is best Blunt.