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Русский корабль - иди нахуй

Eastwood

By Eastwood
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AUS-97HORN
AUS-97HORN

For the love of Christ woman,  stop posting the same fucking thing every 20 mins just to make your neurotic self feel better.     Bring something useful to the thread other than your inane babbli

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InkaUtexas
InkaUtexas

I volunteered today. Log/Admin role to replace people for 30-60 days. The operation is in the west, or should the Orcs win will be pulled back behind the NATO wall. Either way the humanitarian effort

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17583

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sawbonz said:

Aren’t we treaty bound to back Poland in armed conflict?

I'm sure someone will come along and tell me if I'm wrong, but if Poland goes charging offensively into Russia, we aren't bound to follow them.

If Poland says, "we have been attacked by Russia's self-induced nuke cloud" then I'm not sure where we go from there.  

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KYHorn

KYHorn 16865

Posted
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24 minutes ago, Auto Driller said:

I could see the nuke plant attack being a false flag to justify mobilization to a domestic audience. Another possibility is that they do it with the idea that it’ll degrade the western appetite to continue supporting Ukraine in the war effort. The idea being that when we see how dirty / dangerous the conflict has become we’ll reassess whether Ukraine really matters that much.

It’s a completely psychopathic and disgusting frame of mind, but that’s who Putin is.

The two main motivations I see:

1. Putin's primary vulnerability is the approval of the Russians. This could be an attempt to flood the already corrupt news with "Ukraine is trying to create a nuclear disaster" instead of "Crimea is under assault, everyone is fleeing, and all our planes and ammo dumps are getting destroyed!". They may or may not intend to actually go through with it. If they do intend to go through with it in this scenario, the additional motivation might be:

2. I read some experts suggesting they might be trying to destroy portions of the plant that provide electricity to Ukraine and Europe (when Ukraine is selling electricity). I don't know how accurate this is, or the specifics of how this works. But, if this is the case, they could be staging the destruction to blame it on Ukraine while accomplishing the objective of removing it from Ukraine's grid. 

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Sawbonz

Sawbonz 27446

Posted
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3 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I'm sure someone will come along and tell me if I'm wrong, but if Poland goes charging offensively into Russia, we aren't bound to follow them.

If Poland says, "we have been attacked by Russia's self-induced nuke cloud" then I'm not sure where we go from there.  

I’m sure they will push pretty hard on the second rationale. And I don’t see how we can refuse without breaking NATO

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17583

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sawbonz said:

I’m sure they will push pretty hard on the second rationale. And I don’t see how we can refuse without breaking NATO

They buy their weapons from us.  They're not going charging into anywhere without a long talk with us.  I'm sure there would be difficult discussions. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104730

Posted
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55 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:


NATO is not an offensive force, no matter how many times Russia says it.

Ukraine is not a NATO member.

So how do you reckon NATO is going to war without one of its members being attacked?

 

49 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

If a radioactive cloud hovers over NATO land, that's essentially a nuclear attack on a NATO country. I think it's pretty safe to assume it's go time if that happens.

This answers the question.  The intent of setting off a nuclear dirty bomb is to cause harm to surrounding countries -- Russia is using the plant as a terrorist device intended to harm other European nations.   That's different than the accidental fuckup of Chernobyl.  It is as deliberate a radiation attack on European nations as if Russia flew a bomber overhead and released radioactive contaminants directly onto European soil.  Poland etc. would have a very credible argument that it was an intentional act of aggression against them and Article 5 should be invoked.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17583

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Schulz2.0 said:

you-sure-really.gif

I'm not saying Poland isn't a member of NATO, just that Poland on its own is not NATO and cannot make decisions for NATO unilaterally.

I was being glib.

Poland can't Leroy Jenkins this shit, in surly parlance.

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52357

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I'm not saying Poland isn't a member of NATO, just that Poland on its own is not NATO and cannot make decisions for NATO unilaterally.

I was being glib.

Poland can't Leroy Jenkins this shit, in surly parlance.

They can go in as Poland alone though, presumably. And expect/demand nato to follow. 

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17583

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

They can go in as Poland alone though, presumably. And expect/demand nato to follow. 

No, I don't think so.  I think this is wrong both from NATO and general diplomatic standards.

My understanding is that Article 5 is triggered by an attack from someone outside NATO attacking a NATO member.  It's nonsensical that it would require any member to follow another member into a war of choice. 

Just generally, you're not going to get far taking offensive action without first conferring with your allies.  If you attack first, then try a coalition later, chances are your friends are going to be standing on the sidelines saying, "You're on your own."

I mean, yes, theoretically Poland could charge into Belarus and on to Russia on its own and then ask for us to follow.  But I don't think that's very likely. 

Edited by Chad Fuck
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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52357

Posted
Posted
Just now, Chad Fuck said:

No, I don't think so.  I think this is wrong both from NATO and general diplomatic standards.

My understanding is that Article 5 is triggered by an attack from someone outside NATO attacking a NATO member.  It's nonsensical that it would require any member to follow another member into a war of choice. 

Just generally, you're not going to get far taking offensive action without first conferring with your allies.  If you attack first, then try a coalition later, chances are your friends are going to be standing on the sidelines saying, "You're on your own."

Russia producing radioactive fallout in Poland is the initial attack. Poland would be responding, and they shouldn’t have to wait for nato approval to do so.  Whether all of nato mounts up to ride with them is another matter. 
 

of course this is just my worthless opinion of how it should be, and may not in any way be reflective of what it is. 
 

but how can nato be seen as a real thing if it doesn’t support a member state?

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17454

Posted
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I'm sure someone will come along and tell me if I'm wrong, but if Poland goes charging offensively into Russia, we aren't bound to follow them.

If Poland says, "we have been attacked by Russia's self-induced nuke cloud" then I'm not sure where we go from there.  

 

5 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

No, I don't think so.  I think this is wrong both from NATO and general diplomatic standards.

My understanding is that Article 5 is triggered by an attack from someone outside NATO attacking a NATO member.  It's nonsensical that it would require any member to follow another member into a war of choice. 

Just generally, you're not going to get far taking offensive action without first conferring with your allies.  If you attack first, then try a coalition later, chances are your friends are going to be standing on the sidelines saying, "You're on your own."

If Russia intentionally causes radioactive material to spread across Europe, I can guarantee you it will be viewed as an attack and trigger article 5. And we should be very clearly communicating that to Russia right now. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean all out war with Russia. But it would definitely trigger NATO forces to eliminate Russia's presence in Ukraine. And that would be appropriate response in my view. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26319

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

Russia is staging this nuke plant attack so they can have an excuse for general mobilization. What they need most now is more warm bodies and they can’t get them and maintain their legitimacy within the legal framework they set for themselves at home. But if the “barbarians attack” a nuke plant - or we attack Russia in response - they have a their reason and away we go.

I think it's more likely that Russia acts ready to blow the nuclear plant so they can force a cease-fire, and squat on the ground they've gained like it's a European North Korea.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17583

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

 

Russia intentionally causes radioactive material to spread across Europe, I can guarantee you it will be viewed as an attack and trigger article 5. And we should be very clearly communicating that to Russia right now. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean all out war with Russia. But it would definitely trigger NATO forces to eliminate Russia's presence in Ukraine. And that would be appropriate response in my view. 

I agree with all of this.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17583

Posted
Posted

Who knew that google got googled enough to fill in for "zombie Russian soldiers" which is what I think of everytime this nuke plant comes up...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_of_the_Dead_Men

Quote

The Germans became panicked by the appearance of the Russians, who were coughing up blood and bits of their own lungs, as the hydrochloric acid formed by the mix of the chlorine gas and the moisture in their lungs had begun to dissolve their flesh. 

 

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ABSR

ABSR 5289

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I'm starting to feel like Russia is going to fuck around and destroy the nuclear plant.  They keep announcing that it's going to be destroyed.

What the fuck are they going to tell the Russian public and the rest of the world?

"THE US AND UKRAINE SHELLED A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT, SO NOW WE ARE GOING TO INVADE UKRAINE EVEN HARDER AS WE CELEBRATE THE 180TH DAY OF OUR 3-DAY WAR!!!"

200.gif

 

They want to distract their populace from focusing on the real issue which is that they invaded another country and are now losing.

Additionally, if the US/NATO or anyone intervenes in any way that involves people (clean up/containment) or military support Putin can point to this and say "See, I was right that this is all US/NATO and not us invading a country and losing, so we now have to call this a war and go to general mobilization!"

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 17583

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7 minutes ago, Orange&White said:

Putin agreeing to that essentially means that he in fact does not agree to that.

Yerp.

He's not going to let them in, and then say it was the Ukrainians fault.  If they're lucky, it'll be just them turning around at the gate, and not pics of their corpses with Nazi and Ukrainian flags on them.  

 

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8799

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Well if NATO says "ok let's go in", and Poland says "me first!", we'd probably say "go ahead, Leeroy" 

US: alright it’s a pretty good plan. France can you crunch some numbers for us?

France: ahhh yeah give me a sec. I’m coming up with 32.33 repeating of course ahh percentage of survival.

US: ahh well that’s a lot better than we usually do

Poland: times up! Let’s do this!!!!

NATO: omg he just ran in. Jesus stick to the plan!
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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9908

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, utee94 said:

How much does Putin love lying directly to Macron's face?

After the events of the past 7 or 8 months, I'm thinking the answer is... A LOT.

There is masturbating, then there is Putin furiously rubbing one out while lying to Macron. Just next level stuff. 

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