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Posted (edited)

More ignorance on my part. Why did Ukraine not join NATO when the Baltic states did? I assume it didn't cause this kind of ruckus at the time because Putin had only recently taken office?

Edited by 'stache
Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:17 PM, TwiceHorn said:

So, in my Clancy-esque understanding of our military capability. we could theoretically fly some ELINT/CM birds up there and maybe stealthily fuck with Russian command and control.

As in that KC-135 mentioned above is actually an EC-135?

Is that feasible?  Too aggressive?

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The new Russian SAM system is the most advanced in the world.  They pluck a bird or two of ours out of the sky and things can get dicey quick.  

Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:16 PM, crash_davis said:

does the Russia SWIFT decision have to be unanimous? cause fuck Germany, Italy, Hungary and Cryprus.

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I think the US is also not keen on banning Russia from SWIFT, unless you guys have read something changed in the last four hours (and it clearly might have changed).

Posted

I am totally horrified by what is happening but involving U.S. assets, (troops, aircraft, drones or anything else) should be totally off the table.    Going to Ukraine's aid, while noble, would be a huge mistake.

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Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:20 PM, SL Xpress said:

That can't be. I was told on here it's not the same thing. Vehemently.

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it's not wrt to US response.  it is the same wrt to China views Taiwan as China's the way Putin views Ukraine as Russia's. But China can say whatever the fuck they want.  the US rhetoric around Ukraine and Taiwan are not the same.  you've said plenty I agree with, but this is not the same simply because China says it is.

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Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:11 PM, hobbes2702 said:

Can someone explain to me the Chernobyl thing? What would the Russians want with it. I’m behind just trying to catch up this morning 

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I am curious myself. It would be like invading the U.S. and then laying claim to Beaumont, TX. Nobody wants that shit.

 

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Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:25 PM, dieucla98 said:

I've found at least 3 so far - that one plus there are two others under the callsign NCHOxx of type KC-10a. I've usually only been able to find one. Lot of gas stations in the sky.

image.thumb.png.20b0850d7c66ed15235ca90f943563aa.png

 

image.thumb.png.5eb23e3c569a1f4b90f9ac5e61d72353.png

 

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you have to think ours and NATO jets have filled the skies along the western Ukranian border. there's a shitton of refueling going on.

Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:19 PM, Message Board User said:

🤪

 

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"A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick."

She deserved to be raped for wearing that really short skirt.

Again, my biggest complaint, and it has been for a couple of decades at least, is that we encouraged the Ukrainian tilt to the west by implying a support from various Western leaders that was never going to exist when push came to shove. And now push is coming to shove. Having said that, blaming the desire of Ukraine to be more closely affiliated with the West, and the West encouraging it, for today's events is a blaming the victim mentality. There's no excuse for Russia's invasion. None. Just like there was no legitimate rationale for annexing Crimea, or destabilizing the Donbas. There are rationales but they all involve excusing Russia's aggressive posture towards its neighbors, which has existed since Russia was first formed.

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Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:28 PM, Macanudo said:

I am totally horrified by what is happening but involving U.S. assets, (troops, aircraft, drones or anything else) should be totally off the table.    Going to Ukraine's aid, while noble, would be a huge mistake.

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This is where I am today as well. Rooting for the Ukraine soldiers to go beast mode and have their St. Crispin's Day moments and encourage/inspire us all, but not our circus or monkeys right now. Europe needs to handle their own backyard and seems to be (slowly) moving to do so?

Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:30 PM, crash_davis said:

you have to think ours and NATO jets have filled the skies along the western Ukranian border. there's a shitton of refueling going on.

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i suck at links apparently but I saw a similar screen shot of US f-16s apparently all over the sky in Romania. at least that's what the guy said it was.

Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:31 PM, SL Xpress said:

"A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick."

She deserved to be raped for wearing that really short skirt.

Again, my biggest complaint, and it has been for a couple of decades at least, is that we encouraged the Ukrainian tilt to the west by implying a support from various Western leaders that was never going to exist when push came to shove. And now push is coming to shove. Having said that, blaming the desire of Ukraine to be more closely affiliated with the West, and the West encouraging it, for today's events is a blaming the victim mentality. There's no excuse for Russia's invasion. None. Just like there was no legitimate rationale for annexing Crimea, or destabilizing the Donbas. There are rationales but they all involve excusing Russia's aggressive posture towards its neighbors, which has existed since Russia was first formed.

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it's really like the West simply wanted to move the eventual battle field from East Germany to Poland, then from Poland to Ukraine (and eliminate the baltics and other eastern european spots as well) and hope the Russians get bogged down in a direct conflict with a Western proxy, or at least a US proxy.

Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:28 PM, F250 said:

I am curious myself. It would be like invading the U.S. and then laying claim to Beaumont, TX. Nobody wants that shit.

 

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It's fog of war type of stuff. That is kind of how Jack Donaghy of 30 Rock fame ended up with a time share in Port Arthur.

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Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:17 PM, TwiceHorn said:

So, in my Clancy-esque understanding of our military capability. we could theoretically fly some ELINT/CM birds up there and maybe stealthily fuck with Russian command and control.

As in that KC-135 mentioned above is actually an EC-135?

Is that feasible?  Too aggressive?

Expand  

It’s a good way for things to get shooty real quick. 

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Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 4:53 PM, Message Board User said:

Yeah Europe is proper fucked.

 

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Never hand someone else your balls.  Eventually, they WILL squeeze.

  On 2/24/2022 at 4:55 PM, crash_davis said:

 

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Fuck 'em.  Play ball or get fucked.  The time for pussy-ass demands and trading of interests is over.  Europe is at war.  Stop pretending that it isn't.  

  On 2/24/2022 at 4:56 PM, InkaUtexas said:

So gonna be cold in Germany soon. Maybe they should have not made so many deals with Russia. 

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Balls.  Squeezed.

  On 2/24/2022 at 5:13 PM, crash_davis said:

good twitter site 

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/

 

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And as for Hungary and Orban, get on board or get expelled.

  On 2/24/2022 at 5:14 PM, Message Board User said:

 

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Excellent.  Should happen across the board, in all western nations.  And planes currently on the ground in western nations?  They are grounded for the duration.

Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:31 PM, SL Xpress said:

"A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick."

She deserved to be raped for wearing that really short skirt.

Again, my biggest complaint, and it has been for a couple of decades at least, is that we encouraged the Ukrainian tilt to the west by implying a support from various Western leaders that was never going to exist when push came to shove. And now push is coming to shove. Having said that, blaming the desire of Ukraine to be more closely affiliated with the West, and the West encouraging it, for today's events is a blaming the victim mentality. There's no excuse for Russia's invasion. None. Just like there was no legitimate rationale for annexing Crimea, or destabilizing the Donbas. There are rationales but they all involve excusing Russia's aggressive posture towards its neighbors, which has existed since Russia was first formed.

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It was posted earlier (article discussing this), but we are rationalizing with western ideals a point that we know Russia will react too irrationally (to us).  People act irrationally all the time, yet it happens and we know how to avoid or even mitigate these occurrences.  Same could be said here.  There is no excuse for the invasion, to us.  To Russia, it's a redline and something we have long known is a source of contention for them.  They just need to right set of circumstances to achieve it.  Our aims are not aligned, and we need to understand that certain actions are going to elicit certain responses.  

Once Russia had a number of EU countries on the tit, and a war-weary American was just going to bloviate, they made their move.  

Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:43 PM, InkaUtexas said:

They both have them. Most of Ukrainian equipment is old Russian shit. For instance, they fly SU-27's, not F-16's or Tornados. 

 

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And "having" the plane or other equipment does not mean it's properly maintained/supplied or the crew is adept at using it.  

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Posted
  On 2/24/2022 at 5:28 PM, Macanudo said:

I am totally horrified by what is happening but involving U.S. assets, (troops, aircraft, drones or anything else) should be totally off the table.    Going to Ukraine's aid, while noble, would be a huge mistake.

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Except in the 90s we convinced Ukraine to give up nukes on the guarantee we would protect them. After Iraq/Afghanistan, the Kurds, and all the breaking of agreements from 2016 to 2020 we could use an instance of actually keeping our word for once. We're looking a lot like bipolar lying bitches who are too weak of will and morals to back up our words and if we don't start fixing that our influence in disarmament and peace keeping will be non existent in the future. It's already on the ropes as is. 

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