So...about Charlie Strong at USF...

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

9 hours ago, Magus Ossis said:

When the old coach is asleep at the wheel, merely working hard to maximize your opportunities should get you back close to his last season within 2 years at the most. MB left the cupboard in sorry shape, and any personnel deficiencies as cause for poor performance in the first two years CS was here are partially attributable to him. CS, however, had the TEXAS name to sell to Jucos and grad transfers starting the day he was hired. It was his (very well-compensated) job to bring in whatever short- and long-term personnel he needed to win games. He fixed the OL so well that the only apparently NFL-level player Herman inherited to play was CW. Instead of bemoaning the lack of OL that MB left CS, the Strong apologists should note that Herman's worst season was better than CS's best despite losing CW (and much of what other "talent and depth" we had on the line) for most of the season. Yeah, CS baked that OL "cake" for Texas himself.

If Herman has a 5-7 season next year, it will not be Mack's fault, or Strong's. Herman will have had 2 full years to implement his culture and system, to fill gaps with transfers, and to infuse young talent with 2 of "his own" classes past the transition one. It will be a little early to see how high we may peak with a completely "Hermanized" version of the 'Horns, but it will by no means be too early to see whether we have built a solid enough foundation to beat Kansas. The argument that CS is not to blame for the fact that he is in 30th place (of 30) for coaching record at UT because of MB neglects the obvious truth that not all bad coaching performances are followed by good ones. We were bad under CS because CS was unable to make us better. Three years were not enough to be ready for Kansas.

Next year, Texas will be even more reflective of Herman, and USF of Strong. It may be enjoyable to taste both cakes again in December 2019.

I agree with all of this. 

[MrPhlegm 3413]

son of a bitch the fucking USF fan forum probably does not have a thread this long talking about Charlie and they are still stuck with the mother fucker

Those wankers are fucking retarged so fuck em. Morons.

[MrPhlegm 3413]

Umbrage doesn't include an "h", sweetheart. 

Wut?

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

His time at Louisville was overrated. Texas was not an anomaly. He’s better suited for a small program for sure, but this year’s 7 wins are a reversion to the mean. If he gets another Bridgewater type player he can win 10 games again - at a small program. He will never do it without a transcendent QB. 

But that's about what it takes for every coach to win ten or 11 games now. Mack was about to get run out of town until he let VY be VY. He really was. He needed that transcendent QB and then he lucked into another one who was almost as good in Colt. And then he left Charlie with Ash, who I think could have reached Applewhite levels had his skull not been eggshell-thin, and behind him? Garbage. A tight end who could throw a pass through a brick wall but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. And Heard....I can't figure out why he didn't pan out at all. He looked like the real deal for a couple of games but he just wasn't. 

[MrPhlegm 3413]

Eat shit

[MrPhlegm 3413]

So, MB is responsible for what's happening in Tampa now? Because CS should still be winning big in Austin, instead of destroying another football program?

Yes

[Jkwellborn 6610]

Mack was winning 9-10 games literally every season pre-04, when VY started starting. Mack is 10x the head coach Charlie could ever dream to be. 

He was damn sure better at hiring assistants.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, Jkwellborn said:

He was damn sure better at hiring assistants.

Diaz? GDGD? Come on, man. At one point he was really great at bringing a shit ton of talent to the 40, at being an able CEO, and making some good in-game calls, and then all that ended at about the same time, and then everything went to shit. 

[Jkwellborn 6610]

Diaz has been successful everywhere but under MB. But he had some solid hires during his time. I feel like that’s what put Strong behind the 8 ball from the get go.

[Bill Lumbergh 7168]

10 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Diaz? GDGD? Come on, man. At one point he was really great at bringing a shit ton of talent to the 40, at being an able CEO, and making some good in-game calls, and then all that ended at about the same time, and then everything went to shit. 

That's being intentionally selective.  As was already mentioned, Diaz was a rising star in the sec and did pretty well at Miami. 

How about Muschamp, Chizik, Harsin?  Say what you will about Mack, when we lost a coordinator I generally had faith he'd replace them well.

We all love to mock gdgd, but he won a NC and played for another 4 years later.  He wasn't as good as his talent deserved, but he wasn't Shawn fucking Watson bad.

Thinking about our university president flying to Oklahoma to ensure we landed Sterlin Gilbert should tell you how far apart Charlie and Mack were when it came to securing top coordinators. 

[Redneck Mutha 7876]

12 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Diaz? GDGD? Come on, man. At one point he was really great at bringing a shit ton of talent to the 40, at being an able CEO, and making some good in-game calls, and then all that ended at about the same time, and then everything went to shit. 

[Tex Long 4308]

Comparing GDGD and Watson?

GDGD had an HC who was actually pretty good with the Offense; Mack told Greg what he wanted, and Greg was competent enough to implement that, and it was good enough to win a pretty damn good percentage of their games together.

Watson got essentially no direction or help from Charlie, just being told to implement an offense for which he had neither experience or talent. Watson probably had a much closer look at Charlie and figured out he was working for a clueless bone potato head, and resolved to ride that horse until it quit putting goodly amounts of cash in his pocket.

If Number 18 had really been the new Number Ten, Watson  wouldn't even gotten a chance to coach him, because Mack wouldn't have fired himself. On the other hand, if Charlie was as competent with his own specialty as Mack was with his, he'd still be holding the world's worst pressers in Austin instead of in wherever Directional Florida is...

[Spawn of Cthulhu 2241]

12 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Diaz? GDGD? Come on, man. At one point he was really great at bringing a shit ton of talent to the 40, at being an able CEO, and making some good in-game calls, and then all that ended at about the same time, and then everything went to shit. 

Happy Birthday, Jesus! Hope you like crap.

[SDG 3319]

21 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

He really had as good a resume as Herman. 

We also did more diligence with his hire than Herman"s.  Coach hiring is kind of a crapshoot anyway. However, I think it is a mistake to hire a very defensive-oriented coach for the Big XII. Apparently, you really kind of have to see the Big XII to believe it, as exemplified by the several quality teams and DCs thwt have been pantsed by Tech and its descendants. 

Matt Campbell at ISU says hi.  Also add that dick licker Bob came from the defensive side.  

Edited December 25, 2018 by SDG

[TwiceHorn 30981]

4 minutes ago, SDG said:

Matt Campbell at ISU says hi.  Also add that dick licker Bob came from the defensive side.  

Not all are going to be flummoxed by it, but I think it is a good general proposition. 

Also, Campbell is almost exclusively offensive in background. And Stoops preceded Leach and the resulting offensive "identity" such as it is and so adapted to it. 

Edited December 25, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[pearlandhorn 3274]

21 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

He also won a lot of very close games to absolutely shitty teams at UL.  

He won a few very close games at Texas too. He also lost a lot of games at Texas to shitty teams. His hire of Gilbert was last second desperation. It really amazes me that some people still love and want sterlin Gilbert. He put up a lot of yards but the scoring didn’t correlate with the amount of yards he put up. Towards the end of the year in 2016, our offense was anemic.

[Tired Horn 733]

1 hour ago, pearlandhorn said:

He won a few very close games at Texas too. He also lost a lot of games at Texas to shitty teams. His hire of Gilbert was last second desperation. It really amazes me that some people still love and want sterlin Gilbert. He put up a lot of yards but the scoring didn’t correlate with the amount of yards he put up. Towards the end of the year in 2016, our offense was anemic.

That is true.

Charlie's time at Louisville looked decent on his resume, mainly because of the Sugar Bowl win over Florida. If you looked closely at the details, there were certainly questions that could come to mind. Unfortunately, it was the job of the AD to ask those questions, and at that time we had that psycho, money-grubbing, loser from hell, esteemed "sports executive" Patterson. The man who didn't just fail to meet our standards. He doesn't even meet the standards of the Arizona fucking Coyotes.

Hope that bastard winds up working the counter of a Taco Bell someday.  

[Walden Ponderer 12638]

5 minutes ago, Tired Horn said:

Hope that bastard winds up working the counter of a Taco Bell someday.  

As one of the few people on this site who like Taco Bell, fuck that noise. Let Patterson end up at In & Out.

[Tired Horn 733]

52 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

As one of the few people on this site who like Taco Bell, fuck that noise. Let Patterson end up at In & Out.

I'm okay with him cleaning the toilets at either. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 hours ago, pearlandhorn said:

He won a few very close games at Texas too. He also lost a lot of games at Texas to shitty teams. His hire of Gilbert was last second desperation. It really amazes me that some people still love and want sterlin Gilbert. He put up a lot of yards but the scoring didn’t correlate with the amount of yards he put up. Towards the end of the year in 2016, our offense was anemic.

It was the Briles offense without a QB or an OL. It will work with the right players. Briles was freaked when Charlie hired Sterlin. I remember Stoops looked nervous after Charlie almost beat him in 2015 with Swoopes in the shotgun -- he didn't have that smirk he had after he'd stump-broken Mack yet again. And then the next year Charlie beat him. 

Look, y'all, if you are in the third year of your program and you lose to Kansas, you gotta go. I am not longing for a return of the Strong regime. All I'm saying is he left the program in better condition than what he inherited. 

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

23 hours ago, ndawg said:

I would say he was neither overrated nor underrated. Sure, a shitty poker player can still get a royal flush from time to time, but it's all relative. Strong may have been below our standard, but he's better than "shitty" for a program like USF. It took years of consistently causing favorable outcomes at Louisville for him to end up winning a BCS bowl. And he and his staff put a lot of 3* and 4* players into the NFL.

More than anything, I'm just saying that there's no point in using hyperbole to recast his tenure here in an exaggerated light.

He’s not as good as his predecessor at USF.   Overrated coach who couldn’t beat ranked teams at Louisville 

[Hellraiser97 180]

All I'm saying is he left the program in better condition than what he inherited. 

And you're wrong. After the years, we had as many holes or more in our depth chart as when he started and a team full of guys that had no idea if how to win or even an expectation of it. Literally, these guys had never experienced a winning college football season. That losing attitude is harder to fix than lack of talent. The guys Mack left at least had a winning attitude.

I do not like OU

[Not a Sock 2308]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

It was the Briles offense without a QB or an OL. It will work with the right players. Briles was freaked when Charlie hired Sterlin. I remember Stoops looked nervous after Charlie almost beat him in 2015 with Swoopes in the shotgun -- he didn't have that smirk he had after he'd stump-broken Mack yet again. And then the next year Charlie beat him. 

Look, y'all, if you are in the third year of your program and you lose to Kansas, you gotta go. I am not longing for a return of the Strong regime. All I'm saying is he left the program in better condition than what he inherited. 

[Spawn of Cthulhu 2241]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

It was the Briles offense without a QB or an OL. It will work with the right players. Briles was freaked when Charlie hired Sterlin. I remember Stoops looked nervous after Charlie almost beat him in 2015 with Swoopes in the shotgun -- he didn't have that smirk he had after he'd stump-broken Mack yet again. And then the next year Charlie beat him. 

Look, y'all, if you are in the third year of your program and you lose to Kansas, you gotta go. I am not longing for a return of the Strong regime. All I'm saying is he left the program in better condition than what he inherited. 

[TreatyOak 16126]

[Brandywine 1310]

Charlie was just a problem that set our program back years. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Brandywine

[CurlyDumps 4415]

Charlie needed a crumbling conference, a joke schedule, and one of the best QB’s in the country to win 11+ games those two seasons. 

Any Shawn Watson-led offense that wins 11+ games has clearly stumbled into an immensely fortuitous set of circumstances.

 

[Landomatic 3813]

/MaybeACoordinator

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

On 12/24/2018 at 8:08 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

But that's about what it takes for every coach to win ten or 11 games now. Mack was about to get run out of town until he let VY be VY. He really was. He needed that transcendent QB and then he lucked into another one who was almost as good in Colt. And then he left Charlie with Ash, who I think could have reached Applewhite levels had his skull not been eggshell-thin, and behind him? Garbage. A tight end who could throw a pass through a brick wall but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. And Heard....I can't figure out why he didn't pan out at all. He looked like the real deal for a couple of games but he just wasn't. 

Charlie sucks. All of your excuses for him may be valid but end of the day you don’t lose to that kansas team if you’re the least bit competent.  Charlie sucks.  Get it through your head.   

 

It was time for Mack to go, yes.  But he still won 8 games with case mccoyMcCoy

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, Barry_McCokiner said:

Charlie sucks. All of your excuses for him may be valid but end of the day you don’t lose to that kansas team if you’re the least bit competent.  Charlie sucks.  Get it through your head.   

 

It was time for Mack to go, yes.  But he still won 8 games with case mccoyMcCoy

I have acknowledged that CS had to go after Kansas. Yeah the team was beat up and there was that terrible call on the end zone INT but that game should not have been close.

My main point here is Strong left more talent behind than he inherited and we are now reaping the windfall of that. No, the cake wasn't baked, but the mix was in the pan, and had our underclassmen Charlie loyalists returned we'd be looking at a slightly better record than what we had. 

Some of you say there's no depth, but I also believe that is because of Herman's shitty transition class. No program can have solid depth if there are transition classes every four years, nor if they keep changing schemes and firing coaches every three or four years.  There are exceptions. Some coaches have turned programs around in year or two and then gone on to lasting success.  Ol' Bag o' Dicks in Norman is one, but that was in part because Blake did leave him with talent and then he had The Pirate and Mangino calling plays with a baffling new offense that took CFB by storm. (That's one way you can transcend discontinuity -- find some genius breakthrough like the 46 defense or the Air Raid offense.) 

My big fear is that we are cycling towards Tennessee-dom. From 1970-2008, they had three coaches and were a perennial power, despite not having much of an instate recruiting ground and stiff regional competition coming from every direction. Since 2008, they cycled through Kiffin, Dooley, Jones and a couple of interims and are now on Pruitt. Even with the shitty OOC scheduling every SEC team perpetrates, the Vols have been a six-win-per-year-program since Fulmer was shown the door. 

And Fulmer needed to get got, just as Mack did, but the chaos that has followed is where I fear we are now. I don't expect us to beat Georgia. I don't expect next season to be better than this season, even though Ehlinger and Ingram will be better. We are going to be losing our best players on at least two levels of the defense for the second year in a row (Omenihu and Johnson) and I know most of y'all think Boyd sucked in the secondary but NFL scouts think differently. In fact, Omenihu and Boyd are the only two of our guys projected to go in the top hundred picks, but that could change if Collin and LJH declare, which would really suck.)

The D will take another step back next year unless we get a whole bunch of underclassmen stepping up big-time. Herman has signed only two offensive lineman so far, which I just don't understand. It's like he is bound and determined to repeat Mack's mistakes. (Though Herman did a good job in patching together a viable OL this year.) 

So my expectations for next year are low. Eight or nine wins if CJ and LJH stay, 7 if they don't.  

I do expect for these boards to be calling for Orlando and Herman's heads if Georgia goes in dry on us in NOLA and then we start the season 2-4, which is a distinct possibility with LSU, the Pokes, @WVA, and the Gooners on the early slate. That's what I fear the most. You just can't keep switching horses midstream and expect to not drown. 

[Machinator 32097]

3 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I do expect for these boards to be calling for Orlando and Herman's heads if Georgia goes in dry on us in NOLA and then we start the season 2-4

Good thing nobody on this board is the athletic director, then.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Machinator

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Good thing nobody on this board is the athletic director, then.

Fair point, but revolutions rise up from below. 

[Machinator 32097]

Just now, MaybeACoordinator said:

Fair point, but revolutions rise up from below. 

Just like our coaching staff was on death throes after Tulsa, right?

The power vacuum that existed under Patterson and Perrin is not there anymore.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Machinator

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I have been very impressed with CdC so far, and it takes even longer for an AD's vision to manifest than it does for a coach's vision, so that is one cause for optimism. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by MaybeACoordinator

[SaucyJack 3473]

20 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

I do expect for these boards to be calling for Orlando and Herman's heads if Georgia goes in dry on us in NOLA and then we start the season 2-4, which is a distinct possibility with LSU, the Pokes, @WVA, and the Gooners on the early slate. That's what I fear the most. You just can't keep switching horses midstream and expect to not drown. 

Sorry dude, but catching OSU in Sept is a lot different than later in the season.  Especially, if that offense is breaking in a new QB.  WVa will also have a new QB.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 minutes ago, SaucyJack said:

Sorry dude, but catching OSU in Sept is a lot different than later in the season.  Especially, if that offense is breaking in a new QB.  WVa will also have a new QB.

Yeah I feel alright about the Pokes but going to Morgantown is a fucking bitch. I've been there. It's like Mordor. 

[closetojumping 62030]

47 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I have acknowledged that CS had to go after Kansas. Yeah the team was beat up and there was that terrible call on the end zone INT but that game should not have been close.

My main point here is Strong left more talent behind than he inherited and we are now reaping the windfall of that. No, the cake wasn't baked, but the mix was in the pan, and had our underclassmen Charlie loyalists returned we'd be looking at a slightly better record than what we had. 

Some of you say there's no depth, but I also believe that is because of Herman's shitty transition class. No program can have solid depth if there are transition classes every four years, nor if they keep changing schemes and firing coaches every three or four years.  There are exceptions. Some coaches have turned programs around in year or two and then gone on to lasting success.  Ol' Bag o' Dicks in Norman is one, but that was in part because Blake did leave him with talent and then he had The Pirate and Mangino calling plays with a baffling new offense that took CFB by storm. (That's one way you can transcend discontinuity -- find some genius breakthrough like the 46 defense or the Air Raid offense.) 

My big fear is that we are cycling towards Tennessee-dom. From 1970-2008, they had three coaches and were a perennial power, despite not having much of an instate recruiting ground and stiff regional competition coming from every direction. Since 2008, they cycled through Kiffin, Dooley, Jones and a couple of interims and are now on Pruitt. Even with the shitty OOC scheduling every SEC team perpetrates, the Vols have been a six-win-per-year-program since Fulmer was shown the door. 

And Fulmer needed to get got, just as Mack did, but the chaos that has followed is where I fear we are now. I don't expect us to beat Georgia. I don't expect next season to be better than this season, even though Ehlinger and Ingram will be better. We are going to be losing our best players on at least two levels of the defense for the second year in a row (Omenihu and Johnson) and I know most of y'all think Boyd sucked in the secondary but NFL scouts think differently. In fact, Omenihu and Boyd are the only two of our guys projected to go in the top hundred picks, but that could change if Collin and LJH declare, which would really suck.)

The D will take another step back next year unless we get a whole bunch of underclassmen stepping up big-time. Herman has signed only two offensive lineman so far, which I just don't understand. It's like he is bound and determined to repeat Mack's mistakes. (Though Herman did a good job in patching together a viable OL this year.) 

So my expectations for next year are low. Eight or nine wins if CJ and LJH stay, 7 if they don't.  

I do expect for these boards to be calling for Orlando and Herman's heads if Georgia goes in dry on us in NOLA and then we start the season 2-4, which is a distinct possibility with LSU, the Pokes, @WVA, and the Gooners on the early slate. That's what I fear the most. You just can't keep switching horses midstream and expect to not drown. 

 

18 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yeah I feel alright about the Pokes but going to Morgantown is a fucking bitch. I've been there. It's like Mordor. 

Yes sir, it’s true. This man has no dick. 

[Tired Horn 733]

Charlie didn't leave us a windfall. The mix wasn't in the pan, either.

Yes, Charlie was decent recruiter for a couple of years. He did get some players, but not enough to have a stable foundation, particularly when he didn't even have a stable vision of how to use his players. And trying to blame current depth issues on Herman having a transition class is just being a weasel. If Charlie had stayed, that class would have looked no better in the best case scenario, and likely would have looked worse since every recruit worth having could see that Charlie was a dead man walking.

We get it--you're obsessed with the idea that Charlie isn't getting credit for leaving Herman a loaded roster. Unfortunately, he doesn't get credit for that because he didn't do it. He left Herman a little better roster than Mack left him. That's it. 

[jdhorn92 1535]

46 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yeah I feel alright about the Pokes but going to Morgantown is a fucking bitch. I've been there. It's like Mordor. 

We've taken far inferior units up there and done OK.  WV doesn't scare me.  A late year trip to Ames is far scarier.  No Grier or Stills and a head coach who wanted out, we should be fine.

Edited December 26, 2018 by jdhorn92

[closetojumping 62030]

9 minutes ago, Tired Horn said:

Charlie didn't leave us a windfall. The mix wasn't in the pan, either.

Yes, Charlie was decent recruiter for a couple of years. He did get some players, but not enough to have a stable foundation, particularly when he didn't even have a stable vision of how to use his players. And trying to blame current depth issues on Herman having a transition class is just being a weasel. If Charlie had stayed, that class would have looked no better in the best case scenario, and likely would have looked worse since every recruit worth having could see that Charlie was a dead man walking.

We get it--you're obsessed with the idea that Charlie isn't getting credit for leaving Herman a loaded roster. Unfortunately, he doesn't get credit for that because he didn't do it. He left Herman a little better roster than Mack left him. That's it. 

The other problem with whining about the 2017 transition class is that it’s not worth whining over. It was a small class of 17, sure, but it includes multiple starters. Ehlinger, Cosmi, Kerstetter, Gary Johnson. It’s got guys who will start and/or who are playing regularly. Bimage, Graham, Chisholm, Thompson, Brewer, Daniel Young. It’s got other guys who are playing some and have contributed. Leitao, Boyce, Pouncey. The guys people can call busts aren’t numerous. Carter, Rowland (they had to sign this guy), Cummins and probably Estell. 

It’s the little class that could, and yet sweetjones is attempting to pin bullshit on Herman about it. Herman also had to do certain shit in that class precisely because Chuckles couldn’t manage a roster to save his moronic fucking life. 

[Spawn of Cthulhu 2241]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yeah I feel alright about the Pokes but going to Morgantown is a fucking bitch. I've been there. It's like Mordor. 

 

49 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

 

Yes sir, it’s true. This man has no dick. 

Time to counter with a Harrison Ford reference (either Indiana Jones or Han Solo is acceptable).

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

53 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

 

Yes sir, it’s true. This man has no dick. 

The size of my cock has nothing to do with how this team will perform next year, dude. I've grown so tired of the argument that "if you don't think we are going to beat err'body by 40, you have a micropenis or a vagina."

Look, I do think the program is trending in the right direction. I also think next year will be a down year from this year, and then there will be a bunch of sandy vaginas (see what I did there?) calling for the end of the Herman regime 'cause that's what hot-headed fanbases do, and we are among one of the most hot-headed fanbases around. 

[Magus Ossis 2751]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I have acknowledged that CS had to go after Kansas. Yeah the team was beat up and there was that terrible call on the end zone INT but that game should not have been close.

My main point here is Strong left more talent behind than he inherited and we are now reaping the windfall of that. No, the cake wasn't baked, but the mix was in the pan, and had our underclassmen Charlie loyalists returned we'd be looking at a slightly better record than what we had. 

Some of you say there's no depth, but I also believe that is because of Herman's shitty transition class. No program can have solid depth if there are transition classes every four years, nor if they keep changing schemes and firing coaches every three or four years.  There are exceptions. Some coaches have turned programs around in year or two and then gone on to lasting success.  Ol' Bag o' Dicks in Norman is one, but that was in part because Blake did leave him with talent and then he had The Pirate and Mangino calling plays with a baffling new offense that took CFB by storm. (That's one way you can transcend discontinuity -- find some genius breakthrough like the 46 defense or the Air Raid offense.) 

My big fear is that we are cycling towards Tennessee-dom. From 1970-2008, they had three coaches and were a perennial power, despite not having much of an instate recruiting ground and stiff regional competition coming from every direction. Since 2008, they cycled through Kiffin, Dooley, Jones and a couple of interims and are now on Pruitt. Even with the shitty OOC scheduling every SEC team perpetrates, the Vols have been a six-win-per-year-program since Fulmer was shown the door. 

And Fulmer needed to get got, just as Mack did, but the chaos that has followed is where I fear we are now. I don't expect us to beat Georgia. I don't expect next season to be better than this season, even though Ehlinger and Ingram will be better. We are going to be losing our best players on at least two levels of the defense for the second year in a row (Omenihu and Johnson) and I know most of y'all think Boyd sucked in the secondary but NFL scouts think differently. In fact, Omenihu and Boyd are the only two of our guys projected to go in the top hundred picks, but that could change if Collin and LJH declare, which would really suck.)

The D will take another step back next year unless we get a whole bunch of underclassmen stepping up big-time. Herman has signed only two offensive lineman so far, which I just don't understand. It's like he is bound and determined to repeat Mack's mistakes. (Though Herman did a good job in patching together a viable OL this year.) 

So my expectations for next year are low. Eight or nine wins if CJ and LJH stay, 7 if they don't.  

I do expect for these boards to be calling for Orlando and Herman's heads if Georgia goes in dry on us in NOLA and then we start the season 2-4, which is a distinct possibility with LSU, the Pokes, @WVA, and the Gooners on the early slate. That's what I fear the most. You just can't keep switching horses midstream and expect to not drown. 

The "talent upgrade" Strong left Texas includes:

QB (Ash in, Buech out) Push at best unless you credit him with past love and future development of SE
RB (Gray/ Brown/ Berg/ Daje in, Warren/ Porter/ Houston out) Downgrade
WR (Shipley/ Davis/ Warrick/ Harris in, CJ/ LJ/ Duv out) Upgrade
OL (Estelle/ Perkins/ Espinoza/ Flowers/ Hutchins in, Williams/ Vahe/ Shackelford/ McMillon/ Nickelson out) Just a different flavor of ass
DL (Reed/ Brown/ Jackson/ Davis-- Nelson/ Ford/ Roach/ Omenihu) Push
LB (Hicks/ Edmond/ Jinkens-- Malik/ Wheeler/ Hughes) Push
DB (Quandre/ Mykkele/ Duke/ Hall-- Boyd/ Davis/ Locke/ Elliot/ Hill/ Jones) Upgrade
So, basically better at two positions, worse at one, similar and largely bad at the others, notoriously at OL.
 

Transition classes are usually bad, with the goal typically to try to salvage most of what the outgoing coach had committed. Take a look at the class of 2017, and subtract Ehlinger (basically committed since birth and doubly so since losing Papa), Cosmi (committed to Herman), Graham (committed to Herman), Johnson-- (hey did someone lament quality in our D without him?) (committed to Herman), Kerstetter (committed to Herman), Bimage (committed to Herman), Chisolm (committed to Herman), Brewer (committed to Herman) and Leitao (committed to Herman). Many of those Herman commits were not just late commitments but actual flips. There is good evidence the class of 2017 is contributing to our team primarily because we got Herman here just in time.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

13 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Also, Charlie only had like 6 guys committed in that 2017 class when he was fired because he decided he was too overwhelmed to handle recruiting and in-season coaching at the same time, so recruiting would have to wait.  I shudder to think of the clusterfuck his finish to that recruiting class would have been if we didn’t fire him.  

That's bullshit. Charlie's recruiting strategy was always to close with a dramatic finish. 

[SDG 3319]

3 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

That's bullshit. Charlie's recruiting strategy was always to close with a dramatic finish. 

Charlie is gone; he sucked here.  Maybe you should go to USF boards and console them with how good of a coach you think he is.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

5 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

The "talent upgrade" Strong left Texas includes:

QB (Ash in, Buech out) Push at best unless you credit him with past love and future development of SE
RB (Gray/ Brown/ Berg/ Daje in, Warren/ Porter/ Houston out) Downgrade
WR (Shipley/ Davis/ Warrick/ Harris in, CJ/ LJ/ Duv out) Upgrade
OL (Estelle/ Perkins/ Espinoza/ Flowers/ Hutchins in, Williams/ Vahe/ Shackelford/ McMillon/ Nickelson out) Just a different flavor of ass
DL (Reed/ Brown/ Jackson/ Davis-- Nelson/ Ford/ Roach/ Omenihu) Push
LB (Hicks/ Edmond/ Jinkens-- Malik/ Wheeler/ Hughes) Push
DB (Quandre/ Mykkele/ Duke/ Hall-- Boyd/ Davis/ Locke/ Elliot/ Hill/ Jones) Upgrade
So, basically better at two positions, worse at one, similar and largely bad at the others, notoriously at OL.
 

Transition classes are usually bad, with the goal typically to try to salvage most of what the outgoing coach had committed. Take a look at the class of 2017, and subtract Ehlinger (basically committed since birth and doubly so since losing Papa), Cosmi (committed to Herman), Graham (committed to Herman), Johnson-- (hey did someone lament quality in our D without him?) (committed to Herman), Kerstetter (committed to Herman), Bimage (committed to Herman), Chisolm (committed to Herman), Brewer (committed to Herman) and Leitao (committed to Herman). Many of those Herman commits were not just late commitments but actual flips. There is good evidence the class of 2017 is contributing to our team primarily because we got Herman here just in time.

We really haven't seen how good any of those guys are gonna be, aside from Ehlinger. I'm still from Missouri on the rest of those dudes. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, SDG said:

Charlie is gone; he sucked here.  Maybe you should go to USF boards and console them with how good of a coach you think he is.  

I'm just a stubborn motherfucker, and I didn't start this thread, but I can argue on it all I want. You don't have to read it. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

11 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

The "talent upgrade" Strong left Texas includes:

QB (Ash in, Buech out) Push at best unless you credit him with past love and future development of SE
RB (Gray/ Brown/ Berg/ Daje in, Warren/ Porter/ Houston out) Downgrade
WR (Shipley/ Davis/ Warrick/ Harris in, CJ/ LJ/ Duv out) Upgrade
OL (Estelle/ Perkins/ Espinoza/ Flowers/ Hutchins in, Williams/ Vahe/ Shackelford/ McMillon/ Nickelson out) Just a different flavor of ass
DL (Reed/ Brown/ Jackson/ Davis-- Nelson/ Ford/ Roach/ Omenihu) Push
LB (Hicks/ Edmond/ Jinkens-- Malik/ Wheeler/ Hughes) Push
DB (Quandre/ Mykkele/ Duke/ Hall-- Boyd/ Davis/ Locke/ Elliot/ Hill/ Jones) Upgrade
So, basically better at two positions, worse at one, similar and largely bad at the others, notoriously at OL.
 

Transition classes are usually bad, with the goal typically to try to salvage most of what the outgoing coach had committed. Take a look at the class of 2017, and subtract Ehlinger (basically committed since birth and doubly so since losing Papa), Cosmi (committed to Herman), Graham (committed to Herman), Johnson-- (hey did someone lament quality in our D without him?) (committed to Herman), Kerstetter (committed to Herman), Bimage (committed to Herman), Chisolm (committed to Herman), Brewer (committed to Herman) and Leitao (committed to Herman). Many of those Herman commits were not just late commitments but actual flips. There is good evidence the class of 2017 is contributing to our team primarily because we got Herman here just in time.

The OL was the biggest problem. It was a complete shambles and then Charlie had to kick half the starters off the team, and IIRC, exactly none of them turned it around at another program, at least not for a couple of years. You can't just wave fairy dust over an OL -- that is a three-year project at least. This year's OL was the first I've seen since about 2009 that was merely fucking viable. Sam could stand there in the pocket on some plays and check down. We haven't had that in years, and none of you assholes can honestly sit there and tell me that is all Charlie's fault. I mean look at how we didn't put a single OL in the league from Tony Hills to Connor Williams. That is a long-ass time.

God, I am becoming some kind of Derka here. Sorry, y'all.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Lol at calling it a “strategy.”

It was. He had all those silent commits year after year. 

[Richard Kimball 1491]

13 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

That's bullshit. Charlie's recruiting strategy was always to close with a dramatic finish. 

Unless he'd been quietly recruiting those guys and keeping it under the table to snooker the competition, this strategy was going to fail, long term. I haven't seen any indication Strong was capable of quiet deception, and every kid with a twitter account loves to brag about his offers. Strong ignored recruiting, and counted on the Texas brand to turn some kids. 

That's a bold strategy, Cotton, until you're going into recruiting with three straight losing years, trying to convince kids that UT is a better deal than the Oklahoma Sooners, who have been winning conference championships and have had their coaching staff contact the kids ever since they were in the tenth grade. You might turn kids that were committed to Tulsa or UTEP, but against successful, power five schools, you get your ass handed to you.