So...about Charlie Strong at USF...

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

And I am continuing this thread because I like to think about the history and speculate about the future of the program. I am not arguing for a restoration of Strong here -- I am looking more for where the rot came from and how we can get back to where we were from 2004-2009, and how we can prevent falling off again. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

3 minutes ago, Richard Kimball said:

Unless he'd been quietly recruiting those guys and keeping it under the table to snooker the competition, this strategy was going to fail, long term. I haven't seen any indication Strong was capable of quiet deception, and every kid with a twitter account loves to brag about his offers. Strong ignored recruiting, and counted on the Texas brand to turn some kids. 

That's a bold strategy, Cotton, until you're going into recruiting with three straight losing years, trying to convince kids that UT is a better deal than the Oklahoma Sooners, who have been winning conference championships and have had their coaching staff contact the kids ever since they were in the tenth grade. You might turn kids that were committed to Tulsa or UTEP, but against successful, power five schools, you get your ass handed to you. 

You must not have been following the "we gettin err'body" threads on the Shag. NSD was like Xmas for two years in a row. 

[hayden_horn 11,362]

i was a member of the "give the man four years" fan club until we lost that game to kansas. he had to go. honestly, if for nothing else, choking that game away when his back was to the wall. he was not a good coach in pressure situations. watching the waning minutes of that game, and all the emotional bullshit exhibited by the players was a sure sign of his ultimate lack of control of the team.

but i think we also cannot minimize the total shitshow that was our entire athletic department at the time, as well as the total shitshow that was the roster. i tend to agree with maybeacoordinator that that played a definite factor behind the scenes. in many ways, the team that he inherited, the athletic department chaos - he was given a tough row to hoe. 

but that's the sport and the industry. rarely does one get hired into an ideal situation. 

what i can't understand is how personally some of yall take it. i've been largely neutral on tom herman, but it really seemed like we were awfully hasty to go back to the "recent mid-major conference success" well, but it seems like it's working out well. i'm fine being wrong about retaining strong. i hope herman succeeds, because i am a longhorn fan. some of yall REALLY seem to hate charlie strong, like viscerally so. that seems strange to me. hate bob stoops, urban meyer, jeff fisher, i get it. this guy was in over his head. he lasted three years, and he's gone. yall still want to beat he drum about him. 

[closetojumping 62,746]

21 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

The size of my cock has nothing to do with how this team will perform next year, dude. I've grown so tired of the argument that "if you don't think we are going to beat err'body by 40, you have a micropenis or a vagina."

Look, I do think the program is trending in the right direction. I also think next year will be a down year from this year, and then there will be a bunch of sandy vaginas (see what I did there?) calling for the end of the Herman regime 'cause that's what hot-headed fanbases do, and we are among one of the most hot-headed fanbases around. 

You have me confused with someone who has offered a position on an outlook for 2019, but you’re projecting anyway, as you need a straw man to continue to feel justified in tilting at this windmill. My dick post was a quote from Ghostbusters that flew by your pea-sized brain. You do post like a coelenterate and then you fail to understand the logic flaw in turning around and lamenting posters with sandy vaginas. I guess the only reason I don’t have you on ignore yet is due to the unintentional, if honest, comedy that you provide. 

12 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I'm just a stubborn motherfucker, and I didn't start this thread, but I can argue on it all I want. You don't have to read it. 

Stubborn, unto itself as a trait, is a neutral quality. You’re wrongly applying some sense of positive value to it as a justification for your continued thread moaning. It’s like watching people brag about hard work without any other qualities assed to the mix. Chuckles also did that. Ditchdiggers work hard and are some of the. most stubborn assholes on the planet. So fucking what? It’s the same with you here. You have a lot of volume and a zeal for the topic, but you couldn’t create a compelling position on that matter to save your life, so you just continue to shit words at us and claim value. 

[Magus Ossis 2,802]

14 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

The OL was the biggest problem. It was a complete shambles and then Charlie had to kick half the starters off the team, and IIRC, exactly none of them turned it around at another program, at least not for a couple of years. You can't just wave fairy dust over an OL -- that is a three-year project at least. This year's OL was the first I've seen since about 2009 that was merely fucking viable. Sam could stand there in the pocket on some plays and check down. We haven't had that in years, and none of you assholes can honestly sit there and tell me that is all Charlie's fault. I mean look at how we didn't put a single OL in the league from Tony Hills to Connor Williams. That is a long-ass time.

..., I am becoming some kind of Derka here. Sorry, y'all.

You defeat your own argument here. This year, we had LT (Anderson) and RT (Cosmi) that were brought in after Strong left and already have our protection better than he could get it in 3 years or any of his "restocked" or "baked' goods could offer after 5. Our other contributors on OL were Kerstetter (a Herman commit already ahead of the "cake"), Rodriguez (part of the "mess" Mack left that Charlie "fixed"), and Vahe. Vahe was the lone CS recruit on our finally semi-decent line, and arguably our weakest link. CS at best marked time here, and at worst oversaw the cultural transformation from entitled frontrunners to habitual losers.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Magus Ossis

[bluto 4,932]

Take a second and think about how CS "late flourish strategy" would play out here with early signing shortening his recruiting window to essentially 2 weeks in December

[hayden_horn 11,362]

Just now, bluto said:

Take a second and think about how CS "late flourish strategy" would play out here with early signing shortening his recruiting window to essentially 2 weeks in December

yeah, there's no way that would have worked, i agree 100%.

[SDG 3,319]

23 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I'm just a stubborn motherfucker, and I didn't start this thread, but I can argue on it all I want. You don't have to read it. 

You call is "stubborn" and I call it "stupid."  I guess we'll agree to disagree.  I like most here like reading sound reasonable arguments but you're presenting none of those.  

[closetojumping 62,746]

12 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i was a member of the "give the man four years" fan club until we lost that game to kansas. he had to go. honestly, if for nothing else, choking that game away when his back was to the wall. he was not a good coach in pressure situations. watching the waning minutes of that game, and all the emotional bullshit exhibited by the players was a sure sign of his ultimate lack of control of the team.

but i think we also cannot minimize the total shitshow that was our entire athletic department at the time, as well as the total shitshow that was the roster. i tend to agree with maybeacoordinator that that played a definite factor behind the scenes. in many ways, the team that he inherited, the athletic department chaos - he was given a tough row to hoe. 

but that's the sport and the industry. rarely does one get hired into an ideal situation. 

what i can't understand is how personally some of yall take it. i've been largely neutral on tom herman, but it really seemed like we were awfully hasty to go back to the "recent mid-major conference success" well, but it seems like it's working out well. i'm fine being wrong about retaining strong. i hope herman succeeds, because i am a longhorn fan. some of yall REALLY seem to hate charlie strong, like viscerally so. that seems strange to me. hate bob stoops, urban meyer, jeff fisher, i get it. this guy was in over his head. he lasted three years, and he's gone. yall still want to beat he drum about him. 

You’ve bawled about your perception of peoples’ feeling with Strong for 5+ years. You seem to be “just so puzzled “ as you project the concept of hatred onto others. I don’t hate the guy and don’t see anyone else here reeking of that emotion about him either. That’s your bullshit and you carry it into the Strong topic every time. 

What people hate is the apologism for guys like Strong. The projecting of abject failure onto others and other areas that are givens for the HC to deal with in order to be successful. I fucking hate that shit and revolt against it whenever I see it. I see others doing the same. 

Beyond all of that, why is it so puzzling to you that some of this is personal to people on a football board for Longhorn football? Did you miss the part where we spend considerable amounts of time and, in some cases, money, following the game and the team? That we did this during the Strong era as well, while you and others sprinted about the boards to disclaim his failures, race bait, and lament the way other people deal with what they’re witnessing that registers differently than the way you’d do it? But yeah, you’re above it all as you park your fat ass on this board just like the rest of us, day in and day out. It isn’t fucking odd at all and you aren’t some wise counselor above the fray.  Our level of fandom is unapologetically emotional and you fucking know it. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

3 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

You defeat your own argument here. This year, we had LT (Anderson) and RT (Cosmi) that were brought in after Strong left and already have our protection better than he could get it in 3 years or any of his "restocked" or "baked' goods could offer after 5. Our other contributors on OL were Kerstetter (a Herman commit already ahead of the "cake"), Rodriguez (part of the "mess" Mack left that Charlie "fixed"), and Vahe. Vahe was the lone CS recruit on our finally semi-decent line, and arguably our weakest link. CS at best marked time here, and at worst oversaw the cultural transformation from entitled frontrunners to habitual losers.

Anderson was a coup, and I shudder to think where we would have been this year if Herman hadn't gotten him on board, but now he's gone.  Vahe was decent but no Doug Dawson. He seemed like a real keeper freshman year but just ended up meh. 

I am still not sold on Kerstetter and Cosmi. Man, Cosmi had one of the worst plays I've ever seen in the second OU game where he let his guy beat him on the inside without even making a move. I've been watching and or playing football for over 40 years and I'd never seen more fail on a single play from an OL ever. There was no stunt or twist or anything -- that gooner just beat him to the inside and sacked Sam while Cosmi watched helplessly.

Which, again, sort of reminds me of the last decade of our OL play. I keep coming back to this, but Bruce Matthews came to check out UT to see if Luke and Jake should be heading there. This was back in the Hornfans days....I remember reading then that daddy Bruce came away fucking laughing at our OL coaching. Laughing at us, and then they all ended up aggy, and he was right to send them there.  For me that was the firebell in the night, that the Mack regime was beginning to crumble. And it was....

 

[Magus Ossis 2,802]

About that final ranking and late recruiting success. Our February (and later) commitments in 2016 were:

Porter
Christmas
Southall
Daniels
Jones
Fowler
Brown
McCulloch
Elliot
Duvernays
Urquidez
Hudson

How many of those prizes have made a significant positive impact here in the first three years? I see 3 and hope of a bit more. The "Strong Finish" was largely fool's gold.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

Hudson looked like the best lineman we'd had here in years and then blew out his knee and flamed out in practice, almost dying in the process. Having him for the next couple of years would have been huge. The dude played like his hair was on fire. 

[Magus Ossis 2,802]

13 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Hudson looked like the best lineman we'd had here in years and then blew out his knee and flamed out in practice, almost dying in the process. Having him for the next couple of years would have been huge. The dude played like his hair was on fire. 

Citing one recruit that looked good before we learned that he likely will not contribute is what is referred to in logic textbooks as an argument from ignorance. We do not know whether he will or would have meaningfully contributed, only that he has not.

21 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Anderson was a coup, and I shudder to think where we would have been this year if Herman hadn't gotten him on board, but now he's gone.  Vahe was decent but no Doug Dawson. He seemed like a real keeper freshman year but just ended up meh. 

I am still not sold on Kerstetter and Cosmi. Man, Cosmi had one of the worst plays I've ever seen in the second OU game where he let his guy beat him on the inside without even making a move. I've been watching and or playing football for over 40 years and I'd never seen more fail on a single play from an OL ever. There was no stunt or twist or anything -- that gooner just beat him to the inside and sacked Sam while Cosmi watched helplessly.

Which, again, sort of reminds me of the last decade of our OL play. I keep coming back to this, but Bruce Matthews came to check out UT to see if Luke and Jake should be heading there. This was back in the Hornfans days....I remember reading then that daddy Bruce came away fucking laughing at our OL coaching. Laughing at us, and then they all ended up aggy, and he was right to send them there.  For me that was the firebell in the night, that the Mack regime was beginning to crumble. And it was....

 

I see no support here whatsoever for the argument that it was CS rather than TH who started the rebuild of our line that you yourself acknowledged is starting now to bear fruit.

A hallmark of an insightful mind is the ability to re-evaluate previously held positions in the face of new or newly reviewed evidence.

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Magus Ossis

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

43 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

He didn’t leave Tom a better roster than Mack left him. That’s an easily-dispelled myth. 

He’s also the worst recruiter of the 3. His recruiting prowess is another myth. 

It’s clear what Maybe A Coordinator is. Look at his handle. He’s a clear Charlie apologist and why anyone takes him seriously is puzzling. 

Okay, dispel the myth then. You might want to wait until after this year's NFL draft though.

 

[Tired Horn 738]

I certainly don't hate Charlie. I just reject the idea that Charlie significantly upgraded the overall talent level at UT in his time here, or that "the mix was in the pan."

Charlie left us a roster pretty much as unbalanced as the one Mack left, a few better players in some areas, a few worse in others. Certainly nothing to write home about after three years. It was at best on par with the kind of roster stocking that Mack was ultimately fired for. And the Charlie "late recruiting rush" wouldn't have worker at all if we'd kept him that last year. He simply didn't have a record capable of pulling that off anymore.

Sadly, Charlie's going down in UT history as a placeholder who didn't get it done.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

 

Royal left Akers

 Earl Campbell

Brad Shearer.

Johnnie Johnson.

Johnny “Lam” Jones

Alfred Jackson 

Russell Erxleben 

Steve “Bam Bam” McMichael 

Ricky Churchman 

 Glenn Blackwood 

 

Akers left McWilliams  

Stanley Richard.

 Britt Hager 

Stan Thomas.

Tony Jones 

John Hagy 

And of course Eric Metcalf 

McWilliams left Mackovic:

Blake Brockermeyer

Peter Gardere, a great college QB.

Lance Gunn and Van Malone, two DBs who went on to marginal NFL careers.

Huge linebacker Winfred Tubbs, who played seven years in the NFL and made a Pro Bowl once.

 What Mackovic left Mack:

Ricky Williams

Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton

Major Applewhite 

Kwame Cavil and Wane McGarity.

 Leonard Davis, a future first-round draft pick and Cowboys OT.

Quentin Jammer, a a member of the San Diego Chargers All 50th Anniversary team.

D.D. Lewis, a decent NFL linebacker and one of the best LBs Texas has had since the early 1980s. (To his credit, Brown moved him there from running back.)

Hodges Mitchell, still one of UT’s top ten leading rushers.

What Mack left Charlie

 Malcom Brown*

Jordan Hicks*

Mykkele Thompson*

 Quandre Diggs*

Geoff Swaim*

Hassan Ridgeway

 Malcolm Brown, the RB.*

D'Onta Foreman, who Mack didn't want to take. Unlike Brown or Akers, the vast majority of those players were seniors or left after Charlie's first year. The asterisks denote those who were gone after year one of Charlie. 

What Charlie left Herman

Connor Williams

Chris Warren III, who Herman benched for Kyle Porter. 

Buechele, at least a decent college QB

Holton Hill

DeShon Elliott

Malik Jefferson

The Aussie Punter

Poona

Brandon Jones

Charles Omenihu

Kris Boyd

(Am not crediting Strong with Ehlinger because he would have come if Satan was the coach)

LJH

Collin Johnson

 

[Chuckie Finster 22,700]

You've got mental issues.

[Deej 76,830]

Just now, Chuckie Finster said:

You've got mental issues.

I'm just shocked Charlie figured out how to use a computer to post here. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

4 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

You've got mental issues.

Isn't that what these boards have always been about? 

[ClubWhatever 12,144]

This thread means the world to me.  I just can’t thank you guys enough. 

[SDG 3,319]

12 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Isn't that what these boards have always been about? 

No, that's why we have a politics board to keep the mentally ill entertained and away from us.  

[TreatyOak 16,365]

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Arguments can be made for OL & DL, but no other position was fucked up royally than QB. 

Mack fucked it up first, but then Charlie deserves double criticism because he double down on Mack’s stupidity 

2006 - Jevan Snead (Transfer early)

2007 - John Chiles (could not pass)

2008 - 

2009 - Garrett Gilbert (epic bust)

2010 - Case McCoy (legacy offer)

2011 - David Ash

2012 - Tyrone Swoopes

2013 - Jerrod Heard

2014 - Matthew Merrick

2015 - Shane Buchele

2016 - Sam Ehlinger 

Mack’s mistake was after VY & Colt. He recruited like he could just choose great QBs. He did so with GG, and that blew up in his face. Once GG happened in 2010, all he had on the roster was Case McCoy. Then, knowing he was fucked at QB, he didn’t bring a proven transfer like OU, Alabama, or any other normal fucking coach would do. He just said let’s ride with Case. I got 3 star Ash coming too, which was insane. 

Furthermore, a coach in his position would have noticed that Swoopes, while looking like VY, didn’t actually play like VY in his junior or Senior year. Same reasons most schools backed off Shawn Robinson and might be the same with Hornsby, we will see. Anyway. Mack’s a psycho , so he sticks with Swoopes. At the same time, our team is playing like dogshit, and instead of bringing in s proven grad transfer or fuck a regular transfer, we just keep hoping the next tru freshman will save us. 

Mack gets fired. Our QB room is a dumpster fire for 3 straight years. Charlie comes in and does the same fucking thing Mack did, setting the program back 3 more years, Brings in zero transfers, hopes Heard will be a savior. The next year, he only signs a 3 star nobody was recruiting. WTF. The ego level to just assume the guy you pick will be great after years of it not working is mind numbing, And to see it happen 5 or 6 years in a row? 

OU should have been fucked at QB because the guys they recruited also flamed out. But they have coaches who aren’t stupid, and also got transfers Baker, and Kyler. 

Herman immediately recruits 2 QBs. Yes, they might transfer, but before he knew Sam would pan out, he had to get more dudes. They both probably came in thinking they might win the job over Sam. Hopefully 1 stays. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised to see us sign a QB2 other than Roschon. Especially in this day of Transfer Porter. 

 

[Gene Parmesan 4,008]

He signed Locksley but it's still a WTF because he was a huge project that transferred out.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

59 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Arguments can be made for OL & DL, but no other position was fucked up royally than QB. 

Mack fucked it up first, but then Charlie deserves double criticism because he double down on Mack’s stupidity 

2006 - Jevan Snead (Transfer early)

2007 - John Chiles (could not pass)

2008 - 

2009 - Garrett Gilbert (epic bust)

2010 - Case McCoy (legacy offer)

2011 - David Ash

2012 - Tyrone Swoopes

2013 - Jerrod Heard

2014 - Matthew Merrick

2015 - Shane Buchele

2016 - Sam Ehlinger 

Mack’s mistake was after VY & Colt. He recruited like he could just choose great QBs. He did so with GG, and that blew up in his face. Once GG happened in 2010, all he had on the roster was Case McCoy. Then, knowing he was fucked at QB, he didn’t bring a proven transfer like OU, Alabama, or any other normal fucking coach would do. He just said let’s ride with Case. I got 3 star Ash coming too, which was insane. 

Furthermore, a coach in his position would have noticed that Swoopes, while looking like VY, didn’t actually play like VY in his junior or Senior year. Same reasons most schools backed off Shawn Robinson and might be the same with Hornsby, we will see. Anyway. Mack’s a psycho , so he sticks with Swoopes. At the same time, our team is playing like dogshit, and instead of bringing in s proven grad transfer or fuck a regular transfer, we just keep hoping the next tru freshman will save us. 

Mack gets fired. Our QB room is a dumpster fire for 3 straight years. Charlie comes in and does the same fucking thing Mack did, setting the program back 3 more years, Brings in zero transfers, hopes Heard will be a savior. The next year, he only signs a 3 star nobody was recruiting. WTF. The ego level to just assume the guy you pick will be great after years of it not working is mind numbing, And to see it happen 5 or 6 years in a row? 

OU should have been fucked at QB because the guys they recruited also flamed out. But they have coaches who aren’t stupid, and also got transfers Baker, and Kyler. 

Herman immediately recruits 2 QBs. Yes, they might transfer, but before he knew Sam would pan out, he had to get more dudes. They both probably came in thinking they might win the job over Sam. Hopefully 1 stays. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised to see us sign a QB2 other than Roschon. Especially in this day of Transfer Porter. 

 

All of this but I am still more concerned about the OL. Maybe this year's redshirts will be our savior going forward but only signing two this year so far is really bad news. Herman knows this and is going for more (HS, transfers, grad and otherwise) but IMO we should have had about six or eight in the bag already. Every recruiting class needs at least half a dozen OL. No, it's not glamorous, and yes, it's notoriously hard to predict which HS OL pan out, but hey, that's why you offer a mess of them. You look for really big TEs, dual-sport basketball players, dudes who can throw shot or discus, and guys who can hang on defense, and then you coach them up and spin them down into the trenches. And you teach them the Art of Holding in the Big 12. 

[txbroadcaster 110]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Arguments can be made for OL & DL, but no other position was fucked up royally than QB. 

Mack fucked it up first, but then Charlie deserves double criticism because he double down on Mack’s stupidity 

2006 - Jevan Snead (Transfer early)

2007 - John Chiles (could not pass)

2008 - 

2009 - Garrett Gilbert (epic bust)

2010 - Case McCoy (legacy offer)

2011 - David Ash

2012 - Tyrone Swoopes

2013 - Jerrod Heard

2014 - Matthew Merrick

2015 - Shane Buchele

2016 - Sam Ehlinger 

Mack’s mistake was after VY & Colt. He recruited like he could just choose great QBs. He did so with GG, and that blew up in his face. Once GG happened in 2010, all he had on the roster was Case McCoy. Then, knowing he was fucked at QB, he didn’t bring a proven transfer like OU, Alabama, or any other normal fucking coach would do. He just said let’s ride with Case. I got 3 star Ash coming too, which was insane. 

Furthermore, a coach in his position would have noticed that Swoopes, while looking like VY, didn’t actually play like VY in his junior or Senior year. Same reasons most schools backed off Shawn Robinson and might be the same with Hornsby, we will see. Anyway. Mack’s a psycho , so he sticks with Swoopes. At the same time, our team is playing like dogshit, and instead of bringing in s proven grad transfer or fuck a regular transfer, we just keep hoping the next tru freshman will save us. 

Mack gets fired. Our QB room is a dumpster fire for 3 straight years. Charlie comes in and does the same fucking thing Mack did, setting the program back 3 more years, Brings in zero transfers, hopes Heard will be a savior. The next year, he only signs a 3 star nobody was recruiting. WTF. The ego level to just assume the guy you pick will be great after years of it not working is mind numbing, And to see it happen 5 or 6 years in a row? 

OU should have been fucked at QB because the guys they recruited also flamed out. But they have coaches who aren’t stupid, and also got transfers Baker, and Kyler. 

Herman immediately recruits 2 QBs. Yes, they might transfer, but before he knew Sam would pan out, he had to get more dudes. They both probably came in thinking they might win the job over Sam. Hopefully 1 stays. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised to see us sign a QB2 other than Roschon. Especially in this day of Transfer Porter. 

 

IMO his biggest WTF was taking Gilbert..maybe the best HS spread QB ever at that time and going away from his strengths to the "power" O cause Bama does it. 

[EE2B 1,565]

Needs “The Cake is Baked” or “Baked the Cake”

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

4 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I'm just a stubborn motherfucker, and I didn't start this thread, but I can argue on it all I want. You don't have to read it. 

You’re both dumb and stubborn. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Texas had the 10th or so recruiting class and Duvernay/Hudson pushed us to #7.  We had the #10 class in '15.  Charlie averaged an 8.5 ranked class in his two years, and it would have been #10 or worse without Baylor's lawlessness.  Hanging the 2014 #17 ranked class on him in a transition year is unfair, just as hanging 2017's #25 ranked class on Herman or whatever Mack's '98 class was would be unfair.  

Herman had the #3 class last year and is currently at #9.  Average ranking of #6 in a small sample size, just like Charlie.  

Mack average ranking was 6.46 in 15 years.  This included 8 classes out of 15 years where we finished #6 or better - better than Charlie ever finished.  This included two #1 classes, two #2's and one #3.  This ranking was diluted by lazy years that saw a #13 and a #17.

I believe the proof in the pudding of a recruiting class is how many end up in the NFL and how long they stay there, allowing for injuries, etc.

Through that lens we can now all see that Mack's last few classes were very, very overrated, or just downright bad.

And I remember reading some thread on the Shag that detailed the haul he was working on the year he got canned and it was a flaming pile of crap like no other he'd put together before. Honestly, I am mystified at how bad he became at recruiting.  The rankings didn't drop but the results sure as shit did. 

I mean, the program's riding high, coming off an epic NC and close to competing to another two, and Mack and his boys turn in this recruiting effort. And then follow that one with this one.   The #2 ranked class of 2010 did not pan out to that level either. Neither did the #4 class of 2011. Or the #2 class of 2012. The #17 class of 2013 was complete trash.  We were heading deeper and deeper into suck -- I am talking bad character players who not only suck on the field but also go 3-9. Charlie halted that, even if he wasn't able to get us back where we should be. 

[Chuckie Finster 22,700]

All of this but I am still more concerned about the OL. Maybe this year's redshirts will be our savior going forward but only signing two this year so far is really bad news. Herman knows this and is going for more (HS, transfers, grad and otherwise) but IMO we should have had about six or eight in the bag already. Every recruiting class needs at least half a dozen OL. No, it's not glamorous, and yes, it's notoriously hard to predict which HS OL pan out, but hey, that's why you offer a mess of them.

Your savior had 4 OL commits in 2016 and ZERO at the time of his firing for 2017. Tell me more about Herman though.

[Nope 3,114]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Arguments can be made for OL & DL, but no other position was fucked up royally than QB. 

Mack fucked it up first, but then Charlie deserves double criticism because he double down on Mack’s stupidity 

2006 - Jevan Snead (Transfer early)

2007 - John Chiles (could not pass)

2008 - 

2009 - Garrett Gilbert (epic bust)

2010 - Case McCoy (legacy offer)

2011 - David Ash

2012 - Tyrone Swoopes

2013 - Jerrod Heard

2014 - Matthew Merrick

2015 - Shane Buchele

2016 - Sam Ehlinger 

Mack’s mistake was after VY & Colt. He recruited like he could just choose great QBs. He did so with GG, and that blew up in his face. Once GG happened in 2010, all he had on the roster was Case McCoy. Then, knowing he was fucked at QB, he didn’t bring a proven transfer like OU, Alabama, or any other normal fucking coach would do. He just said let’s ride with Case. I got 3 star Ash coming too, which was insane. 

Furthermore, a coach in his position would have noticed that Swoopes, while looking like VY, didn’t actually play like VY in his junior or Senior year. Same reasons most schools backed off Shawn Robinson and might be the same with Hornsby, we will see. Anyway. Mack’s a psycho , so he sticks with Swoopes. At the same time, our team is playing like dogshit, and instead of bringing in s proven grad transfer or fuck a regular transfer, we just keep hoping the next tru freshman will save us. 

Mack gets fired. Our QB room is a dumpster fire for 3 straight years. Charlie comes in and does the same fucking thing Mack did, setting the program back 3 more years, Brings in zero transfers, hopes Heard will be a savior. The next year, he only signs a 3 star nobody was recruiting. WTF. The ego level to just assume the guy you pick will be great after years of it not working is mind numbing, And to see it happen 5 or 6 years in a row? 

OU should have been fucked at QB because the guys they recruited also flamed out. But they have coaches who aren’t stupid, and also got transfers Baker, and Kyler. 

Herman immediately recruits 2 QBs. Yes, they might transfer, but before he knew Sam would pan out, he had to get more dudes. They both probably came in thinking they might win the job over Sam. Hopefully 1 stays. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised to see us sign a QB2 other than Roschon. Especially in this day of Transfer Porter. 

 

Left out Sherrod Harris

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

2 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Your savior had 4 OL commits in 2016 and ZERO at the time of his firing for 2017. Tell me more about Herman though.

Goddammit he neither is nor was my savior, and he had that strategy of hauling in all his guys in December. I can't remember the rationale for it now, but it worked pretty well for him. Those of you who are saying he'd be fucked if he tried that now are right, but that's like saying the Navy would be fucked if they sailed into battle with wooden ships today. I am sure he has adjusted to the new rules, dumb as y'all think he is. 

[Grippe 313]

I wish there was a cough drop for previous head coaches at UT.

[Spawn of Cthulhu 2,241]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

Royal left Akers

 Earl Campbell

Brad Shearer.

Johnnie Johnson.

Johnny “Lam” Jones

Alfred Jackson 

Russell Erxleben 

Steve “Bam Bam” McMichael 

Ricky Churchman 

 Glenn Blackwood 

 

Akers left McWilliams  

Stanley Richard.

 Britt Hager 

Stan Thomas.

Tony Jones 

John Hagy 

And of course Eric Metcalf 

McWilliams left Mackovic:

Blake Brockermeyer

Peter Gardere, a great college QB.

Lance Gunn and Van Malone, two DBs who went on to marginal NFL careers.

Huge linebacker Winfred Tubbs, who played seven years in the NFL and made a Pro Bowl once.

 What Mackovic left Mack:

Ricky Williams

Shaun Rogers and Casey Hampton

Major Applewhite 

Kwame Cavil and Wane McGarity.

 Leonard Davis, a future first-round draft pick and Cowboys OT.

Quentin Jammer, a a member of the San Diego Chargers All 50th Anniversary team.

D.D. Lewis, a decent NFL linebacker and one of the best LBs Texas has had since the early 1980s. (To his credit, Brown moved him there from running back.)

Hodges Mitchell, still one of UT’s top ten leading rushers.

What Mack left Charlie

 Malcom Brown*

Jordan Hicks*

Mykkele Thompson*

 Quandre Diggs*

Geoff Swaim*

Hassan Ridgeway

 Malcolm Brown, the RB.*

D'Onta Foreman, who Mack didn't want to take. Unlike Brown or Akers, the vast majority of those players were seniors or left after Charlie's first year. The asterisks denote those who were gone after year one of Charlie. 

What Charlie left Herman

Connor Williams

Chris Warren III, who Herman benched for Kyle Porter. 

Buechele, at least a decent college QB

Holton Hill

DeShon Elliott

Malik Jefferson

The Aussie Punter

Poona

Brandon Jones

Charles Omenihu

Kris Boyd

(Am not crediting Strong with Ehlinger because he would have come if Satan was the coach)

LJH

Collin Johnson

 

I never did figure out how you counted those 246 toothpicks laying on the floor so quickly.

[Deej 76,830]

42 minutes ago, EE2B said:

Needs “The Cake is Baked” or “Baked the Cake”

Or, "The Cake is a Lie".

[Deej 76,830]

13 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Goddammit he neither is nor was my savior, and he had that strategy of hauling in all his guys in December. I can't remember the rationale for it now, but it worked pretty well for him. Those of you who are saying he'd be fucked if he tried that now are right, but that's like saying the Navy would be fucked if they sailed into battle with wooden ships today. I am sure he has adjusted to the new rules, dumb as y'all think he is. 

His rationale was he couldn't multitask well enough during the season to handle both recruiting and whether or not to take penalties that benefited his team.

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

2 hours ago, TreatyOak said:

Quite literally the only thing on here you can make a semi-cogent argument for is "nice guy" and that is 1) highly subjective, 2) subject to limited forms of available evidence which are only falsifiable under ridiculous circumstances, and most importantly 3) utterly fucking irrelevant vis-a-vis being a successful head football coach.

I still like the guy. I think Charlie Strong would make a great customer service clerk at an appliance store.

[Deej 76,830]

"This washing machine here..."

"Excuse me, but isn't that a dryer?"

[Spankytoes 1,742]

4 hours ago, closetojumping said:

You’ve bawled about your perception of peoples’ feeling with Strong for 5+ years. You seem to be “just so puzzled “ as you project the concept of hatred onto others. I don’t hate the guy and don’t see anyone else here reeking of that emotion about him either. That’s your bullshit and you carry it into the Strong topic every time. 

What people hate is the apologism for guys like Strong. The projecting of abject failure onto others and other areas that are givens for the HC to deal with in order to be successful. I fucking hate that shit and revolt against it whenever I see it. I see others doing the same. 

Beyond all of that, why is it so puzzling to you that some of this is personal to people on a football board for Longhorn football? Did you miss the part where we spend considerable amounts of time and, in some cases, money, following the game and the team? That we did this during the Strong era as well, while you and others sprinted about the boards to disclaim his failures, race bait, and lament the way other people deal with what they’re witnessing that registers differently than the way you’d do it? But yeah, you’re above it all as you park your fat ass on this board just like the rest of us, day in and day out. It isn’t fucking odd at all and you aren’t some wise counselor above the fray.  Our level of fandom is unapologetically emotional and you fucking know it. 

I was going to respond but you pretty much nailed it. I always read his posts from someone who believes that he is more “woke” than the rest of the board. If you disagree with his position, it’s because you possess inferior intellect. Kind of like Barzini in the Princess Bride.

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

3 minutes ago, Deej said:

"This washing machine here..."

"Excuse me, but isn't that a dryer?"

Well, you look at this machine, and it's all about the tradition of dry cleaning.

[AustinMT 952]

18 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Quite literally the only thing on here you can make a semi-cogent argument for is "nice guy" and that is 1) highly subjective, 2) subject to limited forms of available evidence which are only falsifiable under ridiculous circumstances, and most importantly 3) utterly fucking irrelevant vis-a-vis being a successful head football coach.

I still like the guy. I think Charlie Strong would make a great customer service clerk at an appliance store.

A “Nice Guy” doesn’t cheat on his wife...

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

10 minutes ago, AustinMT said:

A “Nice Guy” doesn’t cheat on his wife...

True enough. Our evidence on that score is second hand, of course, so it is reasonable for someone to remain unconvinced. Besides, I'm not sure I see what that has to do with selling appliances.

[Tired Horn 738]

55 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Goddammit he neither is nor was my savior, and he had that strategy of hauling in all his guys in December. I can't remember the rationale for it now, but it worked pretty well for him. Those of you who are saying he'd be fucked if he tried that now are right, but that's like saying the Navy would be fucked if they sailed into battle with wooden ships today. I am sure he has adjusted to the new rules, dumb as y'all think he is. 

That doesn't address the issue raised.

Charlie had zero OL recruits for 2017 at the time of his firing. Yes, he tried to haul in guys in December, but there was no chance in hell that was going to work again after his third straight losing season. That's one of the big reasons Charlie had to go--his ability to recruit at the level needed was over. Keep Charlie for another year and the OL would have been a shit storm in both 2017 and 2018.

But by all means continue to make snide insinuations about Herman's efforts on the OL. How else are you going to get that Charlie Strong Mythological Society medal?

And again, people don't hate Charlie. They've just lost patience with endless adoring odes to a failed coach that invariably seem to include gratuitous shots at the guy trying to fix things now.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

 

1. According to S&P+, Charlie's last two teams were practically equal to Mack's last team, the 8-5 squad. All of them came in right around number 37. And that's where we are again this year under Herman. No, Bill Connelly doesn't put his finger on the scale because he's from Oklahoma and went to Mizzou. He really is a robot, and he just reports what his algorithm says. It's just an accurate, semi-scientific measurement of where our program has been the last few years. 

2. You can't tell me that Mack left Charlie with more talent than Charlie left Herman with. Mack's last five recruiting classes were mostly trash, aside from a Kenny Vacarro here and a Malcom Brown there and what else? There was a lot of bad luck in there, too. I believe Jonathan Gray, David Ash and Malcolm Brown could have been good ones but they all went down to various injuries. But there were also a lot of overrated or plain bad takes. Charlie reversed that trend. We've started putting guys in the League again, and that is what you need if you want to continue to compete. 

3. Herman has made his share of boneheaded in-game moves. Every coach does. I think the MENSA vs Coach Potato images shield him from this to some degree. 

4. Can anyone explain why he was so keen to play Kyle Porter over Chris Warren III last year? If you are straight up in the business of winning football games that is not a good decision. Yeah yeah, Warren's big game was against one of Tech's sorriest defenses, but he had some other good games, and I think Porter would have a tough time breaking 50 yards against Our Lady of the Lake. Seriously, I think his career-long at UT is about 12 yards against some mullet squad in garbage time. And you have Warren on the bench. Ok cool. Hook 'em. And then Warren shreds in the NFL pre-season and he'll be back with the Raiders next year. Kyle Porter would have trouble getting invited to a training camp in fucking Italy or Ireland or some shit -- not even Canada. He was a late take in one of Charlie's classes and seems like a great kid but he is just not up to this level of competition. So why did Herman give him all those fucking carries? Anyone got an answer for that?

 

 

[LTtxfan 49,245]

7 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

Username not a match...... Maybe a Bot?

Hope you don't short circuit posting on this thread

[Girdwood 118]

imgur

[Neonmoon 38,129]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

1. According to S&P+, Charlie's last two teams were practically equal to Mack's last team, the 8-5 squad. All of them came in right around number 37. And that's where we are again this year under Herman. No, Bill Connelly doesn't put his finger on the scale because he's from Oklahoma and went to Mizzou. He really is a robot, and he just reports what his algorithm says. It's just an accurate, semi-scientific measurement of where our program has been the last few years. 

2. You can't tell me that Mack left Charlie with more talent than Charlie left Herman with. Mack's last five recruiting classes were mostly trash, aside from a Kenny Vacarro here and a Malcom Brown there and what else? There was a lot of bad luck in there, too. I believe Jonathan Gray, David Ash and Malcolm Brown could have been good ones but they all went down to various injuries. But there were also a lot of overrated or plain bad takes. Charlie reversed that trend. We've started putting guys in the League again, and that is what you need if you want to continue to compete. 

3. Herman has made his share of boneheaded in-game moves. Every coach does. I think the MENSA vs Coach Potato images shield him from this to some degree. 

4. Can anyone explain why he was so keen to play Kyle Porter over Chris Warren III last year? If you are straight up in the business of winning football games that is not a good decision. Yeah yeah, Warren's big game was against one of Tech's sorriest defenses, but he had some other good games, and I think Porter would have a tough time breaking 50 yards against Our Lady of the Lake. Seriously, I think his career-long at UT is about 12 yards against some mullet squad in garbage time. And you have Warren on the bench. Ok cool. Hook 'em. And then Warren shreds in the NFL pre-season and he'll be back with the Raiders next year. Kyle Porter would have trouble getting invited to a training camp in fucking Italy or Ireland or some shit -- not even Canada. He was a late take in one of Charlie's classes and seems like a great kid but he is just not up to this level of competition. So why did Herman give him all those fucking carries? Anyone got an answer for that?

 

 

People have told you repeatedly it was about the same and proved it numerous ways, but you want that Apology medal, so crack on. 

[Nope 3,114]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

 

1. According to S&P+, Charlie's last two teams were practically equal to Mack's last team, the 8-5 squad. All of them came in right around number 37. And that's where we are again this year under Herman. No, Bill Connelly doesn't put his finger on the scale because he's from Oklahoma and went to Mizzou. He really is a robot, and he just reports what his algorithm says. It's just an accurate, semi-scientific measurement of where our program has been the last few years. 

2. You can't tell me that Mack left Charlie with more talent than Charlie left Herman with. Mack's last five recruiting classes were mostly trash, aside from a Kenny Vacarro here and a Malcom Brown there and what else? There was a lot of bad luck in there, too. I believe Jonathan Gray, David Ash and Malcolm Brown could have been good ones but they all went down to various injuries. But there were also a lot of overrated or plain bad takes. Charlie reversed that trend. We've started putting guys in the League again, and that is what you need if you want to continue to compete. 

3. Herman has made his share of boneheaded in-game moves. Every coach does. I think the MENSA vs Coach Potato images shield him from this to some degree. 

4. Can anyone explain why he was so keen to play Kyle Porter over Chris Warren III last year? If you are straight up in the business of winning football games that is not a good decision. Yeah yeah, Warren's big game was against one of Tech's sorriest defenses, but he had some other good games, and I think Porter would have a tough time breaking 50 yards against Our Lady of the Lake. Seriously, I think his career-long at UT is about 12 yards against some mullet squad in garbage time. And you have Warren on the bench. Ok cool. Hook 'em. And then Warren shreds in the NFL pre-season and he'll be back with the Raiders next year. Kyle Porter would have trouble getting invited to a training camp in fucking Italy or Ireland or some shit -- not even Canada. He was a late take in one of Charlie's classes and seems like a great kid but he is just not up to this level of competition. So why did Herman give him all those fucking carries? Anyone got an answer for that?

 

 

Only thing #1 proves is that the S&P+ statistic is complete and utter bullshit

[927 E. 41st 1,124]

Can anyone tell me what you could possibly tell recruits (that would work) after you lose to Kansas? I honestly can't think of a thing.

[Tex Long 4,401]

Why come y'all dumbasses feedin' the troll?