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So...about Charlie Strong at USF...

horn_of_the_morning

By horn_of_the_morning
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closetojumping

closetojumping 62,030

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3 hours ago, Laga4 said:

No geography mistakes getting by Surly. 

Can you please not quote that fucking idiot? Nothing he posts is worth reposting. 

1 hour ago, Magus Ossis said:

Yeah I wanted him to be good strongly enough that I allowed my judgment to be clouded early on.

I think it is fair to say that many people feel this same way. I was out on him after the Noreen Dame/Shawn Watson bullshit, but I understood a host of people waiting longer. It sucked no matter what. 

1 hour ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I think @Cajun‘s “you gotta tear it down before you build a foundation of bricks” metaphors were my favorite. Like taking a mediocre team and making it suck complete ass was all part of the master plan.

Well, you just described what the Astros actually did successfully during the same time period. It’s not exactly a complete failure of a strategy when the right people are calling the shots. 

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TreatyOak
TreatyOak

That's gonna look great one day in the USF locker room.  

SwanderedTalent
SwanderedTalent

Charlie's ban was on guns. He didn't have a problem with knives, as evidenced by all the times he brought one to a gunfight and we lost by 40 points

closetojumping
closetojumping

There are a lot of easy reasons to despise Chuckles. He shit all over the program. Like, he was terrifuckingbad. It’s a program we follow almost as a religion. That was bad enough. He also plead with

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Walden Ponderer

Walden Ponderer 12,638

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On 9/1/2019 at 12:19 PM, Johnny Sack said:

Post 2009 Mack wasn’t near as bad as that retard Charlie.

Mostly true, but I'll add a caveat. Post 2009 Mack pissed me off more than Charlie, because by the end of Chuckles' reign, it was obvious he just didn't know what the fuck he was doing.

Mack should have known better. Hell, Mack did know better, he was just too fucking lazy and arrogant at that point to correct himself.

You could put the two of them back in the same positions again, after a lot of psychotherapy, and Mack would almost definitely make the changes necessary to fix what he stubbornly refused to fix the first time, but it doesn't matter how much you tried to fix Charlie's damaged psyche, the ability just wasn't ever there. Can't blame a guy for being totally incompetent; you can just fire him.

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Tex Long

Tex Long 4,308

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11 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

What if I told y'all post Mack Brown and Charlie were both retards who set our program back?

Mack is/was an asshole, but he's not stupid. Coach Potatoe is/was just flat stupid, although some people apparently think that traumatic brain injuries may account for that.

 

 

EDIT: I, for one, am sorely disappointed that Mack didn't hire GDGD as his OC at NC again.

Edited by Tex Long
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Funk Doctor Spock

Funk Doctor Spock 11,729

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Just now, Tex Long said:

Mack is/was an brain, but he's not stupid. Coach Potatoe is/was just flat stupid, although some people apparently think that traumatic brain injuries may account for that.

 

 

EDIT: I, for one, am sorely disappointed that Mack didn't hire GDGD as his OC at NC again.

For all of Mack's mistakes, he was a very good recruiter and did very well in tight games (sans ou). He just mailed it in after our NC. I still never understood why he refused to recruit outside of Texas. He went full regard 2006-"retirement". 

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Laga4

Laga4 1,270

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

Can you please not quote that fucking idiot? Nothing he posts is worth reposting. 

I think it is fair to say that many people feel this same way. I was out on him after the Noreen Dame/Shawn Watson bullshit, but I understood a host of people waiting longer. It sucked no matter what. 

Well, you just described what the Astros actually did successfully during the same time period. It’s not exactly a complete failure of a strategy when the right people are calling the shots. 

I appreciate your concern but I will quote whomever I want to quote. 

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TheBryMan81

TheBryMan81 2,477

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

Well, you just described what the Astros actually did successfully during the same time period. It’s not exactly a complete failure of a strategy when the right people are calling the shots. 

It can definitely work in pro sports because you get rewarded for sucking. High draft positions give you the opportunities needed to rebuild a franchise.

College is the opposite. Sucking makes it harder to rebuild because it's harder to recruit the best players there compared to when the same program is winning.

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5,761

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2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

I was out on him after the Noreen Dame/Shawn Watson bullshit, but I understood a host of people waiting longer. It sucked no matter what. 

I feel like at some point in the distant past, but during all of our Gen-X lifetimes, the conventional wisdom became "you can't change coaches again and again in the short term, it will ruin your program". That shortcut to thinking clouded the judgment of a lot of people, myself included. 

It was probably obvious in 2014 that we were unusually badly coached, but I wasn't looking for that as the root cause of our problems because Charlie Strong was A Good Man who ran off the toked up coddled pussy candyasses Mack Brown had recruited . We were going to be TOUGH. Hard to beat. Hey, Hickory lost to Oolitic early on because Coach Norman Dale insisted on four passes before shooting. FOUR PASSES, YOU FUCKING PRIMA DONNAS. YOU'RE NOT GOING BACK IN THE GAME RADE BUTCHER, MY TEAM IS ON THE FLOOR! That season's struggles were just Charlie forcing these guys to be Tough Football Players, plus David Ash's brain injury ruined our chances at another Alamo Bowl.

There was no reason for anyone who tried to pay as much attention as I did to our football program to still be onboard with any of the Charlie Strong bullshit after the 2015 season opener, and the only way to win us back should have been a seven- or eight-game win streak and a NY6 bowl, not Jerrod Heard tearing it up for two games and us beating OU. Strong should have been fired mid-season after the TCU fiasco. Mack should have been fired after the 2011 turnaround only produced 8 wins and the OU and Baylor humiliations. 

We have to stop accepting mediocrity as easily as we do, stop worshiping Patience and a genial acceptance of "oh well, can't win 'em all", if we want something different. Let's worry about what coaches will think if we fire too many people too quickly AFTER we've fired too many people too quickly. 

Maybe I'm awake, or maybe I'm scraping the other guardrail now. Whatever. Any coach that wants my support just needs to win without cheating or embarrassing the University. Any coach that wants my undying, unconditional love better marry into my fucking family and even then he better not get blown out by fucking Oklahoma.

Edited by SwanderedTalent
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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52,215

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2 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Can you please not quote that fucking idiot? Nothing he posts is worth reposting. 

I think it is fair to say that many people feel this same way. I was out on him after the Noreen Dame/Shawn Watson bullshit, but I understood a host of people waiting longer. It sucked no matter what. 

Well, you just described what the Astros actually did successfully during the same time period. It’s not exactly a complete failure of a strategy when the right people are calling the shots. 

I don’t THINK you need a lecture on the differences between cfb and mlb and how that strategy fits within them, but let me know if you do and I’ll write it up. 

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62,030

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25 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I don’t THINK you need a lecture on the differences between cfb and mlb and how that strategy fits within them, but let me know if you do and I’ll write it up. 

Programs have been torn down to the studs in CFB and built back up into elite levels as well. You have to have the right guy to do it. I don’t advocate for that strategy, but I don’t find it absurd. I mean, fuck, Frost is doing it at Nebraska right now. Someone will actually probably have to do that at Tennessee. Mack Brown, yes Mack Brown, actually did it at North Carolina his first time around. The archetype for it is The Junctions Boys, which is a bygone era, I recognize, but it’s not crazy. 

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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9,044

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18 hours ago, msucolt45 said:

Nobody on this board didn’t want CS to succeed, because that would’ve meant our beloved Horns didn’t succeed!

He was/is a great man, but IMO the “job” of being the HC at UT brought with it more than he could handle. If it was just coaching X and Os, as well as recruiting, it’d been right for him. His first staff wasn’t sufficient to help him not be as hands-on as he wanted, so he suffered. It was all downhill after that.

Tap your brakes, son.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 30,987

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2 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

I took your approach to start but the most mounting evidence began to sway me. I try not to make snap judgements without enough evidence and try not to go guard rail to guard rail. 

Eventually, with eventually being the ND game, I lost composure and my mind. Wrote the idiot and my team off and shrank into a huge depression.

It lagged over into the Herman era from Strong and MBs EOL... And it still isn't fully gone.

Winning the home opener in convincing fashion as well as the Bowl Game has helped a lot.

Yep, my finally unleashed skepticism got carried over heavily into the Herman era.   Winning the opener when heavily favored (ie avoiding a wtf loss) went a long way to getting me the rest of the way on the M/V Herman.

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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9,044

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3 hours ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Mostly true, but I'll add a caveat. Post 2009 Mack pissed me off more than Charlie, because by the end of Chuckles' reign, it was obvious he just didn't know what the fuck he was doing.

Mack should have known better. Hell, Mack did know better, he was just too fucking lazy and arrogant at that point to correct himself.

You could put the two of them back in the same positions again, after a lot of psychotherapy, and Mack would almost definitely make the changes necessary to fix what he stubbornly refused to fix the first time, but it doesn't matter how much you tried to fix Charlie's damaged psyche, the ability just wasn't ever there. Can't blame a guy for being totally incompetent; you can just fire him.

I wanted FUPM gone as much as anyone, but had he stuck around for another 3 years, those years would have been better than Charlie's tenure.  Mack would have managed 7-8 wins, and he may have made the changes necessary to start winning 9.

And to be perfectly clear, I was tired of his act and wanted him gone after 2010.  I can't stand the sight of him.

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MrPhlegm

MrPhlegm 3,413

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I feel like at some point in the distant past, but during all of our Gen-X lifetimes, the conventional wisdom became "you can't change coaches again and again in the short term, it will ruin your program". That shortcut to thinking clouded the judgment of a lot of people, myself included. 

It was probably obvious in 2014 that we were unusually badly coached, but I wasn't looking for that as the root cause of our problems because Charlie Strong was A Good Man who ran off the toked up coddled pussy candyasses Mack Brown had recruited . We were going to be TOUGH. Hard to beat. Hey, Hickory lost to Oolitic early on because Coach Norman Dale insisted on four passes before shooting. FOUR PASSES, YOU FUCKING PRIMA DONNAS. YOU'RE NOT GOING BACK IN THE GAME RADE BUTCHER, MY TEAM IS ON THE FLOOR! That season's struggles were just Charlie forcing these guys to be Tough Football Players, plus David Ash's brain injury ruined our chances at another Alamo Bowl.

There was no reason for anyone who tried to pay as much attention as I did to our football program to still be onboard with any of the Charlie Strong bullshit after the 2015 season opener, and the only way to win us back should have been a seven- or eight-game win streak and a NY6 bowl, not Jerrod Heard tearing it up for two games and us beating OU. Strong should have been fired mid-season after the TCU fiasco. Mack should have been fired after the 2011 turnaround only produced 8 wins and the OU and Baylor humiliations. 

We have to stop accepting mediocrity as easily as we do, stop worshiping Patience and a genial acceptance of "oh well, can't win 'em all", if we want something different. Let's worry about what coaches will think if we fire too many people too quickly AFTER we've fired too many people too quickly. 

Maybe I'm awake, or maybe I'm scraping the other guardrail now. Whatever. Any coach that wants my support just needs to win without cheating or embarrassing the University. Any coach that wants my undying, unconditional love better marry into my fucking family and even then he better not get blown out by fucking Oklahoma.

MrWizard is BACK!

 

05c4e60ca343cd6df828f501793b041a.gif

 

 

f95798e3c8e61aecf54aefe3eae94c7c.gif0f6e8ca2adf0164dc7ae77a032bcb6f1.gif

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 4,968

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24 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I wanted FUPM gone as much as anyone, but had he stuck around for another 3 years, those years would have been better than Charlie's tenure.  Mack would have managed 7-8 wins, and he may have made the changes necessary to start winning 9.

And to be perfectly clear, I was tired of his act and wanted him gone after 2010.  I can't stand the sight of him.

I’ve had this argument with some Mack supporters and I agree with your assessment, but the argument typically revolves around we “forced” Mack out for Strong when what really happened was that we had his replacement lined up but he refused to go quietly.  Once it was clear that Mack was going to be a bitch unless we did everything his way, the donors said why would we go through the whole process of trying to lineup another quality coach if Mack is just going to lampoon the hire? So at that point the donors moved from trying to find Mack’s replacement to simply firing Mack (without a ready replacement) and that led directly to the Strong hire/failure.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8,397

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

Programs have been torn down to the studs in CFB and built back up into elite levels as well. You have to have the right guy to do it. I don’t advocate for that strategy, but I don’t find it absurd. I mean, fuck, Frost is doing it at Nebraska right now. Someone will actually probably have to do that at Tennessee. Mack Brown, yes Mack Brown, actually did it at North Carolina his first time around. The archetype for it is The Junctions Boys, which is a bygone era, I recognize, but it’s not crazy. 

Tearing it down to studs in CFB seems tougher now.  There is a pretty strict 25 man limit per class.  You run too many off and it will take forever to get a full 85 man rosters.  

It was easier when you could sign 30 man classes.  

Edited by Johnny Sack
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ImissWallyPryor

ImissWallyPryor 9,044

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18 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

I’ve had this argument with some Mack supporters and I agree with your assessment, but the argument typically revolves around we “forced” Mack out for Strong when what really happened was that we had his replacement lined up but he refused to go quietly.  Once it was clear that Mack was going to be a bitch unless we did everything his way, the donors said why would we go through the whole process of trying to lineup another quality coach if Mack is just going to lampoon the hire? So at that point the donors moved from trying to find Mack’s replacement to simply firing Mack (without a ready replacement) and that led directly to the Strong hire/failure.

I tend to agree. Mack refused to take it like a man. 

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Newy25

Newy25 7,618

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28 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

Charlie fucking sucked.  He only did one good thing in his tenure here and that was when he made the observation that social media is going to be the downfall of society.  

Go work on a newspaper editorial staff or something.

Correction, Strong did two good things while he was here. 

Never forget “Kurt”. 

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Cajun

Cajun 11,659

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On 9/2/2019 at 9:58 AM, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I think @Cajun‘s “you gotta tear it down before you build a foundation of bricks” metaphors were my favorite. Like taking a mediocre team and making it suck complete ass was all part of the master plan.

No, not part of a "master plan".  More like a function of nature.  

"Out of the primordial sludge emerges new life", yada yada.

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Saint Tacky

Saint Tacky 1,609

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Posted
On 9/2/2019 at 3:51 PM, TKthunder2 said:

I’ve had this argument with some Mack supporters and I agree with your assessment, but the argument typically revolves around we “forced” Mack out for Strong when what really happened was that we had his replacement lined up but he refused to go quietly.  Once it was clear that Mack was going to be a bitch unless we did everything his way, the donors said why would we go through the whole process of trying to lineup another quality coach if Mack is just going to lampoon the hire? So at that point the donors moved from trying to find Mack’s replacement to simply firing Mack (without a ready replacement) and that led directly to the Strong hire/failure.

We did force Mack out for Strong.  Mack did get Saban torpedoed, but he was done either right before or right after the event/convention the coaches attend in NYC at the end of the season.  Strong was hired and Mack left town to kill it in Florida pout.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4,275

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i did not want charlie when we hired him. as a degenerate gambler i was all too familiar with watching his team on national TV every Thursday night perpetually failing to cover the spread/score more than 30-something points, and that was with Teddy Bridgewater under center. However, even I started to buy in once the whole "stern disciplinarian" thing started to come about, and i was like, "fuck it, let's do this Charlie Strong!!" I convinced myself that Texas was bigger than Louisville and that things would be different here. Well they were different alright; the defense was worse than I ever could have imagined. Ugh.

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Lhorn

Lhorn 4,863

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Posted
7 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

Charlie and his Bulls won their first game in 329 days yesterday, beating FCS’ South Carolina State 55-16.

Next week they’re facing Bye, might be a tougher battle.

Man, I feel for their fans.  Looking at a blowout win against a bad opponent and trying to convince yourself that it means anything more than jackshit.  Trying to see improvement where none exists.  We've been there.

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 20,098

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Posted
5 hours ago, Lhorn said:

Man, I feel for their fans.  Looking at a blowout win against a bad opponent and trying to convince yourself that it means anything more than jackshit.  Trying to see improvement where none exists.  We've been there.

Fuck their fans. We’ve been paying most of that clown’s salary while he destroys their football program. 

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