So...about Charlie Strong at USF...

[Slacks 6773]

Two words for you: Teddy. Bridgewater. 

I'm still trying to find the team / coach that is great at winning without a qb.

 

swoopes and buchele weren't going to win with Mack, Strong, Herman, Saban...

 

that's where the real problems began.

 

i said it then, I'll say it now, while coaching matters, players matter more... there's a reason people follow recruiting and drafts...

 

coaching gets players in the right place, minimizes negatives and optimizes positives.

 

Charlie strong didn't forget how to coach. he never knew how to deal with all the extra bs.

 

Mack Brown didn't forget how to coach, he got to tied up with the extra bs and stopped coaching AND MORE IMPORTANTLY stopped recruiting.

 

Tom Herman would have made due with Heard at QB... that's about all i see that could have gone right had he followed Mack...

 

whatever, we're here now... let's win.

 

[Mileslong 4706]

we can agree he could not possibly have been worse

Username checks out

[Pig Bellmont 8661]

9 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Still dont know how we ended up with Strong instead of Chris Peterson

This. 

[Bill Lumbergh 7168]

I'm still trying to find the team / coach that is great at winning without a qb. swoopes and buchele weren't going to win with Mack, Strong, Herman, Saban... that's where the real problems began.

 

i said it then, I'll say it now, while coaching matters, players matter more... there's a reason people follow recruiting and drafts...

 

coaching gets players in the right place, minimizes negatives and optimizes positives.

 

Charlie strong didn't forget how to coach. he never knew how to deal with all the extra bs.

 

Mack Brown didn't forget how to coach, he got to tied up with the extra bs and stopped coaching AND MORE IMPORTANTLY stopped recruiting.

 

Tom Herman would have made due with Heard at QB... that's about all i see that could have gone right had he followed Mack...

 

whatever, we're here now... let's win.

 

 

 

 

He had some seriously fatal flaws in managing a program that had nothing to do with this being Texas and all the stuff that goes along with that  Namely, hiring assistants and roster management. 

Watson was awful, and everyone on this board, and every fan of a school where he had previously oc'd who came to this board, predicted that it would go down like it did. Do not try to tell me his hands were tied by Patterson. He had budget to do better than Shawn Watson, but it was a comfort hire.

 

Bedford was a washout from okst. Nothing in his history suggested top tier DC. The only reason any of us weren't equally concerned with him vs Watson is that defense is supposed to be your coaches expertise, so if it breaks he'll fix it, just like Herman had to do with Beck. Only Charlie never fixed it.

 

Not only did he make poor hires, he was painfully slow to acknowledge and correct it, which ultimately probably cost him his job as much as anything.

 

On the roster side, it's really simple. Some of our best players over the last few years have been transfers Herman strategically went after to fill voids on our team. Calvin Anderson, Gary Johnson, and Tre Watson all come to mind. When Charlie had roster holes, he (and his supporters) would throw hands up and say "what are we supposed to do, we don't have the players?" Herman is finding a way to address these issues where Charlie was just fine to excuse poor performance with roster holes. It's a massive difference in approach to managing your team.

 

In his time here, Charlie failed to manage his defense, his coaching hires, or our glaring roster holes well. The only thing you could argue he did reasonably well was recruit, and even that is clearly better under Herman. It's ok to have wanted Charlie to succeed here, but objectively he just failed at almost every important facet of his job. That's why he lost it, and he's doing the same thing now at usf without all of the "distractions" of Texas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steamboat1874 4028]

Ok it sucked......but we have the absolute right guy now so it all worked out.

[gmr548 16380]

Plus, Charlie had a great resume’. 2 National Championships as a DC and Louisville was a hot team under him. No reason he would be considered a bad hire when he came to Texas. No reason for anyone to doubt he would not work out. 

Resume wise he was the mirror image of Tom Herman. At the time every piece of info out there said he was one of the best options. It didn't work out, obviously. Shit happens. It's weird to me we still have a thread for hand wringing.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

19 hours ago, pepper brooks said:

you know wha tis so funny though?  we were on the hook for only 2 years.  Had they fired him last year his buyout would have been the average of what USF has paid in him salary x remaining years.  they paid him like 500k.  they could have fired him for 1.5 mil.  This year they're paying his full salary so they will have to pay him full freight on two years when they run him off after this season.  hahahahahaha.  should have pulled the plug last year, dip shits.  like the old saying goes, never put of until tomorrow what you know should be done today.  

This absolutely proves Charlie Strong is competent, maybe even outstanding, at something.  How much money did he make as a head coach?   $30 million?   Off two seasons of pure luck at QB.  He maximized that break to an amazing degree.  That’s a talent.  

 

[Valmy77 13055]

Why did we hire David McWilliams instead of Jimmy Johnson back in 1986? Why? That is what I am wringing my hands about.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

I need huckleberry to throw a spreadsheet together for me.

[pepper brooks 578]

19 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

This...and as I recall the talent pool of know commodity coaches willing to move was pretty thin.  Franklin would have been better but he had baggage.  We dodged the Briles bullet if he was even under serious consideration at all.  Saban was probably a pipe dream, and we were not hiring a coordinator with no HC experience.  Charlie seemed like a good fit to rid the program of the entitlement bug.

saban had agreed to a contract he was ready and willing to sign (this is 100% true).  he mandated it be to his desk by the Friday before the red-banquet.  mack and powers got word and blew the thing up.  

[WBT 20340]

1 hour ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Ok it sucked......but we have the absolute right guy now so it all worked out.

we'll see

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, Valmy77 said:

Why did we hire David McWilliams instead of Jimmy Johnson back in 1986? Why? That is what I am wringing my hands about.

that we hired McWilliams instead of throwing everything we could muster at Johnson is emblematic of the lack of seriousness in our athletic department that I am hopeful has been banished w/CDC and Herman. 

[Pimphand 5537]

1 hour ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Ok it sucked......but we have the absolute right guy now so it all worked out.

He still has lost to Maryland twice has never beaten Okie Lite let's tap the brakes on the absolute portion. Had his goal line play calling been better the LSU game likely has a different outcome

[Doc Reeves 6434]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

Resume wise he was the mirror image of Tom Herman. At the time every piece of info out there said he was one of the best options. It didn't work out, obviously. Shit happens. It's weird to me we still have a thread for hand wringing.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

He had a track record of bad assistants. He got hired because of who he wasn’t rather that being the best fit for the job 

[Steamboat1874 4028]

2 minutes ago, Pimphand said:

He still has lost to Maryland twice has never beaten Okie Lite let's tap the brakes on the absolute portion. Had his goal line play calling been better the LSU game likely has a different outcome

Jesus man.....

We also beat OU and Georgia last year and you can forget about all of that OSU bullshit that I keep hearing over and over.

We will kick their ass Saturday.

If you cannot see the difference in this team since he has been here you are fucking blind.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Steamboat1874

[Pimphand 5537]

Just now, Steamboat1874 said:

Jesus man.....

We also beat OU and Georgia last year and you can forget about all of that OSU bullshit that I keep hearing over and over.

We will kick their ass Saturday.

Charlie Strong also beat OU. Herman needs to do it again... So far he is 1-2 vs OU just like Strong was. Again tap the fucking brakes he is not some infallible god yet.  The only real accomplishment was beating Georgia so far.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Pimphand said:

Charlie Strong also beat OU. Herman needs to do it again... So far he is 1-2 vs OU just like Strong was. Again tap the fucking brakes he is not some infallible god yet.  The only real accomplishment was beating Georgia so far.

It took Mack 6 years at Texas to have a win like Georgia.

[BurdineBandit 805]

 

2 hours ago, Snacks said:

I'm still trying to find the team / coach that is great at winning without a qb.

 

swoopes and buchele weren't going to win with Mack, Strong, Herman, Saban...

 

that's where the real problems began.

 

i said it then, I'll say it now, while coaching matters, players matter more... there's a reason people follow recruiting and drafts...

 

I still stand by my opinion that if Charlie'd had David Ash to play out his years, he might have been our coach for an extra couple years.

 

14 hours ago, BigSwingingD said:

Agree. His intuition on Charlie was spot on. The guy is a multi billionaire for a reason. We probably should have listened.

 

Imagine being convinced that because a guy made a shit-ton of money selling cars we should really value his thoughts on how to best run a college football team.

We valued exactly what we should have, his ability to contribute to the program, but there is no reason we should have consulted him on our hire otherwise, especially regarding his intuition on the X's and O's of a game of football. We hired someone who seems to be a much better coach without his "intuition".
 

Edited September 18, 2019 by BurdineBandit

[Johnny Sack 8397]

5 minutes ago, BurdineBandit said:

 

I still stand by my opinion that if Charlie'd had David Ash to play out his years, he might have been our coach for an extra couple years.

 

Imagine being convinced that because a guy made a shit-ton of money selling cars we should really value his thoughts on how to best run a college football team.

We valued exactly what we should have, his ability to contribute to the program, but there is no reason we should have consulted him on our hire otherwise, especially regarding his intuition on the X's and O's of a game of football. We hired someone who seems to be a much better coach without his "intuition".
 

Yeah, Red McCombs knows no experience in sports.

[BurdineBandit 805]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah, Red McCombs knows no experience in sports.

I'm well aware of his ownership history. I'm not convinced that means our AD should be consulting him for his thoughts on who is best to run our college football team. Plenty of successful pro owners STFU and SitTFDown after they hire competent people (GM) to make those decisions for them (Jerry Jones on the other hand...).

[surlybalakris 29]

I hate this thread, can we just move on? Yes, Herman is no Saban Jr but we are lightyears ahead of where we were a 3 years ago.  OK State is going to be the real bellwether, all signs point to a big victory.  

[927 E. 41st 1124]

31 minutes ago, BurdineBandit said:

I'm well aware of his ownership history. I'm not convinced that means our AD should be consulting him for his thoughts on who is best to run our college football team. Plenty of successful pro owners STFU and SitTFDown after they hire competent people (GM) to make those decisions for them (Jerry Jones on the other hand...).

As it turned out, it would have paid to have listened to him. Like it or not successful people are successful for a reason. In this case it appears that Red was spot on.

[gmr548 16380]

He had a track record of bad assistants. He got hired because of who he wasn’t rather that being the best fit for the job 

You just described Tom Herman.

Tom Herman hired Tim Beck to run the offense, Warehime as OL coach, and brought in Stan Drayton to turbofuck the RB room. The jury is out on the defensive staff that is here and I think everyone agrees there's a definite imbalance in terms of allocation of resources to the offensive vs defensive sides - assistant slots, analysts, etc. Give Herman credit for correcting two of the four, particularly for landing Herb Hand, but his staff management has been far from top notch.

Tom Herman was brought in because he was the hot name, but also because he had the opposite background of Charlie Strong - offensive guy, mensa shitick, etc. Coaching searches often end at the other end of the spectrum from what they're replacing. I'd wager you could say the majority of HCs were "hired because of who he wasn't."

Charlie Strong seemed like a pretty good option at the time given the info available. He wasn't and he was gone in three years for a reason. Herman has established himself here, the culture has changed and the program is in the best shape it's been in for some time. Move on and enjoy the present.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Saint Tacky 1609]

2 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Why did we hire David McWilliams instead of Jimmy Johnson back in 1986? Why? That is what I am wringing my hands about.

Two words.  Deloss Dodds.  McWilliams' hire took little or no thought or effort on his part.  He was also the man whose "nation wide coaching search" for McWilliams' replacement consisted of a plane ride to Champagne, Illinois.  The same man who then flew off to hire Gary Barnett and had to be instructed that he was wasting his time there because the next head coach was meeting with the real decision-makers in Atlanta.  

[Huckleberry 32628]

1 hour ago, Pimphand said:

Had his goal line play calling been better the LSU game likely has a different outcome

I, too, was flummoxed that he called the "running back drop a wide open touchdown" play. Great post. 

[hpslugga 4026]

24 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I, too, was flummoxed that he called the "running back drop a wide open touchdown" play. Great post. 

Goddamnit, is that still a thing? There still are people shitting on Herman for the best call that he had for the whole of that game???

[krevo 142]

16 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Charlie's magic retard strength

lmao

[CurlyDumps 4415]

This thread exists for us to laugh at Charlie Strong's current failures. If he starts winning, then sure, let's move on from this thread. Until that happens, it will remain a personal favorite of mine and I will make sure it doesn't go away. 

[Jiggy-Z 3427]

2 hours ago, pepper brooks said:

saban had agreed to a contract he was ready and willing to sign (this is 100% true).  he mandated it be to his desk by the Friday before the red-banquet.  mack and powers got word and blew the thing up.  

Ok, so even if Saban was not a pipe dream, after the above, we were still left with my original scenario.  Charlie was the best choice given the available pool at the time and our list of minimum requirements and $.  Now I am not saying that that list of requirements was properly weighted for things that really mattered, like assistant evaluations and performance, but  he did check a lot of the boxes, as they say.

If you disagree, then throw out some names that met the criteria at the time and we could debate.  I just don't remember there being anyone I was excited about that wanted to come here.

[RollLeft 5038]

2 hours ago, surlybalakris said:

I hate this thread, can we just move on? Yes, Herman is no Saban Jr but we are lightyears ahead of where we were a 3 years ago.  OK State is going to be the real bellwether, all signs point to a big victory.  

Did not read but post more.

[Redneck Mutha 7876]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

It took Mack 6 years at Texas to have a win like Georgia.

1999 Nebraska would like a word with you.  

But yeah, probably no other wins against elite teams those first 6 years.

[Jiggy-Z 3427]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

It took Mack 6 years at Texas to have a win like Georgia.

One could argue that Nebraska 98' and 99' and aggy 98' were just as big,  even though Mac did not follow up with another huge win until , as you say, years later in 2004 or 2005.   I think we give Herman more credit for the Georgia win  because we don't have any significant history after the win that would establish an upward trend or just marking time like Mac circa 1999-2004.

[Not a Sock 2308]

I just don't believe the Saban to Texas stuff, Saban is a god at that school there isn't a motherfucker that won't bow down to him and there is no way he was giving that up to come to Texas.

[B00M 6238]

Outside of all the typical CS bullshit (insane penalties, bad D, bad ST), it turns out, former 5 star Blake Barnett is fucking awful. #2 pro QB in his class, washed out at Bama, ended up at USF and just totally ineffective. So now theyre playing freshman McCloud who will probably win a few games for Charlie and keep him there for us to skull fuck next year. He inherited such a talented, confident team and has turned them into losers. 

[Thermos H. Christ 478]

9 minutes ago, Not a Sock said:

I just don't believe the Saban to Texas stuff, Saban is a god at that school there isn't a motherfucker that won't bow down to him and there is no way he was giving that up to come to Texas.

No but see we made an offer and he expressed interest during the same time he was playing hardball negotiating with Bama and they ended up paying off his house and all kinds of other crazy shit, obviously that means it was a done deal and 100% going to happen except that we inexplicably let Mack Brown sabotage it despite him having no actual power to do that?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Thermos H. Christ

[Doc Reeves 6434]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

You just described Tom Herman.

Tom Herman hired Tim Beck to run the offense, Warehime as OL coach, and brought in Stan Drayton to turbofuck the RB room. The jury is out on the defensive staff that is here and I think everyone agrees there's a definite imbalance in terms of allocation of resources to the offensive vs defensive sides - assistant slots, analysts, etc. Give Herman credit for correcting two of the four, particularly for landing Herb Hand, but his staff management has been far from top notch.

Tom Herman was brought in because he was the hot name, but also because he had the opposite background of Charlie Strong - offensive guy, mensa shitick, etc. Coaching searches often end at the other end of the spectrum from what they're replacing. I'd wager you could say the majority of HCs were "hired because of who he wasn't."

Charlie Strong seemed like a pretty good option at the time given the info available. He wasn't and he was gone in three years for a reason. Herman has established himself here, the culture has changed and the program is in the best shape it's been in for some time. Move on and enjoy the present.

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Well... that’s like you opinion man.

imo he was a dogshit from the moment he was announced. Additionally Patterson fucked us on his  and his staffs contracts.

literally every reservation I had was eventually realized. Regardless of these factors he did and overwhelmingly poor job here. Arguing against that is arguing against fact. 

Herman’s story is still being written but we have an undeniable surge and out staff is on short term contracts.

It was an absolute snow job.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Doc Reeves

[Thermos H. Christ 478]

Oh please, Charlie Strong was the belle of the ball as far as hot up-and-coming coaches in 2013. He'd turned down Tennessee. Florida fans were mad as hell that we got him before they could. And if Tom Herman didn't or doesn't work out, there will be plenty to point to as far as him not having actually accomplished all that much before he got here, or reasons why it doesn't count.

[pepper brooks 578]

28 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Ok, so even if Saban was not a pipe dream, after the above, we were still left with my original scenario.  Charlie was the best choice given the available pool at the time and our list of minimum requirements and $.  Now I am not saying that that list of requirements was properly weighted for things that really mattered, like assistant evaluations and performance, but  he did check a lot of the boxes, as they say.

If you disagree, then throw out some names that met the criteria at the time and we could debate.  I just don't remember there being anyone I was excited about that wanted to come here.

Guys available who had better resumes than Charlie, and I am not AT ALL saying they turned out to be better in their jobs, nor am I saying they would have worked out better at TExas.  Chances are they would not have, but the list included:

Briles

Malzhan (he openly stated he wanted the job)

Mora Jr - they interviewed him and moved on quickly

David Shaw - turned down the job twice mainly because he had his dream job, and we didn't offer him enough to make texas his new dream job

Harbaugh - was a really hot name to return to CFB.  he was waiting to get the UM job, but for the right price likely would have taken the Texas job (according to someone who would know)

CHarlie 

Chris Peterson - we didn't even consider him

Hindsight, it would seem Briles would have obviously been better, but we would have been really embarrassed.  Malzhan would have been exponentially better than CHarlie, but im not sure he would have been a great long term fix.  My guess he would have been about like Mackovich here.  Mora likely wouldn't have worked, but then again who has worked out at UCLA?  He still a better football coach than Charlie, but probably not a long term solution.  the rest, meh...in the end we checked a non-football box with Charlie, and got a guy I think we are relatively happy with as of now.  Recruiting has picked up dramatically, toughness and playing hard has picked up dramatically, and we have developed a QB after 10 years in the desert.  

[tbone_ 14016]

Anyone that can fog a mirror could have coached us to the worst 3 year record in school history.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

4 minutes ago, Thermos H. Christ said:

Oh please, Charlie Strong was the belle of the ball as far as hot up-and-coming coaches in 2013. He'd turned down Tennessee. Florida fans were mad as hell that we got him before they could.

I remember that. I also remember his ties to assistants with questionable recruiting techniques. 

[DanTheHorn 4880]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

It took Mack 6 years at Texas to have a win like Georgia.

When was it that we beat Nebraska on the road? At the time that was a huge win. I would say bigger than Georgia.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, DanTheHorn said:

When was it that we beat Nebraska on the road? At the time that was a huge win. I would say bigger than Georgia.

That Nebraska team finished 19th in the country and lost 4 games.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Just now, DanTheHorn said:

When was it that we beat Nebraska on the road? At the time that was a huge win. I would say bigger than Georgia.

Halloween 99? Crouch replaces the starting qb Cristo or something

[DanTheHorn 4880]

16 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

That Nebraska team finished 19th in the country and lost 4 games.

Two of those losses were to top 5 teams at game time in the last two games by a total of 13 points. We were a nobody at the time trying to comeback and we beat Nebraska in their home when they were ranked #7. That is absolutely a bigger win than Georgia last year in a bowl game. We all hate what Mack did in his later years to our program but that does not diminish what he did as a coach in 1998. I would put what Tom did last year behind what Mack did in 1998, 2001, 2004, 2005, 2008 and 2009. Hell even 2006 since Mack lost because Colt got hurt while being in the hunt. Tom and his staff shit the bed a few times last year.

Edited September 18, 2019 by DanTheHorn

[jet black 179]

Move on and enjoy the present.

 

 

 

[Not a cat 5601]

11 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

When was it that we beat Nebraska on the road? At the time that was a huge win. I would say bigger than Georgia.

You'll have to be more specific-  98, 02, 06 and 10. 

1998 was a big deal, but other than that and NU at home in 1999 (followed by shitting the bed in the Conference championship game to them) the next national win of note was at the end of the 2004 season and that was over a good, but not great, Michigan team that was ranked outside the top 10.  

[Helobious 9457]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I, too, was flummoxed that he called the "running back drop a wide open touchdown" play. Great post. 

What about the “let’s run our QB wide towards our worst blocking tight end” play on 4th & goal?

[Jiggy-Z 3427]

48 minutes ago, pepper brooks said:

Guys available who had better resumes than Charlie, and I am not AT ALL saying they turned out to be better in their jobs, nor am I saying they would have worked out better at TExas.  Chances are they would not have, but the list included:

Briles

Malzhan (he openly stated he wanted the job)

Mora Jr - they interviewed him and moved on quickly

David Shaw - turned down the job twice mainly because he had his dream job, and we didn't offer him enough to make texas his new dream job

Harbaugh - was a really hot name to return to CFB.  he was waiting to get the UM job, but for the right price likely would have taken the Texas job (according to someone who would know)

CHarlie 

Chris Peterson - we didn't even consider him

Hindsight, it would seem Briles would have obviously been better, but we would have been really embarrassed.  Malzhan would have been exponentially better than CHarlie, but im not sure he would have been a great long term fix.  My guess he would have been about like Mackovich here.  Mora likely wouldn't have worked, but then again who has worked out at UCLA?  He still a better football coach than Charlie, but probably not a long term solution.  the rest, meh...in the end we checked a non-football box with Charlie, and got a guy I think we are relatively happy with as of now.  Recruiting has picked up dramatically, toughness and playing hard has picked up dramatically, and we have developed a QB after 10 years in the desert.  

Yeah, so pretty much Malzhan, who I would have been happier with, even at the time of hiring.  Guess there was some box he didn't check...and his wife is pretty much batshit, perhaps that was it..too much for the blue hairs....and thus we arrive at Charlie Strong.

[TwiceHorn 30987]

On 9/16/2019 at 12:18 PM, CurlyDumps said:

This isn’t even a bad or painful memory for me. In the moment, it was a comedic masterpiece.  Charlie Chaplin in his prime couldn’t have delivered such a brilliant blend of satire, slapstick, and truth. Now, with the benefit of time, the feelings associated with being a national embarrassment  have faded, and the memory of that game conjures nothing but pure joy. It was a great day for Texas Football.  Thank you, Coach Strong.

I have this reaction sometimes to horror/gore scenes in movies where I giggle then laugh uncontrollably:  the grosser/more horrible it is, the more i laugh.  I had that reaction during the 4th quarter of the KU game.  At first hit was horror giggling, then it was just outright comedic-response laughter.

[Valmy77 13055]

Yeah I do remember eventually just being amused by that game after the horror wore off.