So...about Charlie Strong at USF...

[GreenspointTexas 9978]

I still dont understand how people can hate mack so much on here, but still, at the same time, have a little love for charlie

 

charlie was fucking awful. As in, the worst athletic hire in the history of the school

 

i could inherit half the talent mack left charlie and still win 6 games year after year.. its not rocket science. Charlie fucking sucked ass and set this program back worse than mack ever did

 

i dont wish anything ill on charlie, but i really dont give a fuck if he crashes and burns. He stole millions from our university/state... fuck em

[Machinator 32103]

Just now, GreenspointTexas said:

charlie was fucking awful. As in, the worst athletic hire in the history of the school

 

[Napoleon 8837]

12 hours ago, MrPhlegm said:

On 11/27/2018 at 9:32 PM, Nicole44 said:

I’d offer up this if only to say (a) Charlie Strong while he did not do well here is not a bad person (b) while Mack Brown screwed up while imo waiting to become the AD slacked off in recruiting but also won us a championship that is so rare other than in Saban’s reign should be at least applauded © so bored with this argument. If we win this weekend. Great! Do we dominate? Is this like Bama? Because I’ve never seen anything like that. (D) if Saban was a possibility as a UT coach “fuck anyone” and I repeat “fuck anyone” and any of your kids and grandkids and their kids that sabotaged that (e) if that circles around to Mack see (d)

Mack didn't win that championship. One Vincent Paul Young won the championship. Vince told ol butter teeth and his untrained monkey gdgd to fuck off, he's got it. And Vince DID have it. Mack and gdgd would have pissed it all away if they had kept forcing their mindless shit on the offense.

THIS!!

Mack just loaded up his iPod and came along for the ride.

After Mack choked away another fucking game to OU VY's sophomore year, Vince went to Mack and said "Coach, just let me play." And Mack stopped coaching (or strangling his coaches & players) and Texas never lost another game with Vince as QB.

[Napoleon 8837]

7 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I still dont understand how people can hate mack so much on here, but still, at the same time, have a little love for charlie

charlie was fucking awful. As in, the worst athletic hire in the history of the school

i could inherit half the talent mack left charlie and still win 6 games year after year.. its not rocket science. Charlie fucking sucked ass and set this program back worse than mack ever did

i dont wish anything ill on charlie, but i really dont give a fuck if he crashes and burns. He stole millions from our university/state... fuck em

At least Charlie never hired a "Strength & Conditioning Coach" that looked like this fat fuck.

 

We lost so many games due solely to the fact that our players were physically unprepared to play it makes me rage-y.

Our best teams took it upon themselves to develop themselves and to coach themselves (at least on offense) because Mack was incapable of making the decisions needed to help the players. Then he stopped recruiting players who could take over the program to do the job that he was supposed to do and Charlie was in so far over his head that he deserved more pity than scorn.

[Disco Missile 456]

13 hours ago, Hellraiser97 said:

The cupboard wasn't half as bare as the Charlie lovefest wanted us to believe.  Mack was far from perfect, particularly at the end, but he had enough talent to win 8 games his last year and I guarantee we would have won more than 16 games over the next three years had Mack stayed.  The biggest problem Mack had was staying Manny _iaz after year 2.  He didn't want to have full turnover of the staff again so quickly and after Harsin bolted, he chose to stick with _iaz.  

It was time for Mack to go, but Strong was just a lazy hire.  He wasn't that great at Louisville and his on the field game was practically a mirror of Mack (underperforming offenses, failed to rise to the level on too many big games, etc.).  There were plenty of coaches out there that could have fixed the entitlement issues of the players without wrecking the program.

Strong may have left more talent than Brown did, I think that's debatable given how thin we still are at so many positions, but one thing that Mack left that Charlie didn't was an expectation to win.  The players Charlie left expected to lose.  That should NEVER happen at Texas.

This point isn't often considered. We're well past the era of Mack players and we're still suffering through a roster full of holes that Charlie left us. He got some headline talent, and that earned him a reputation for fixing Mack's problems.

But he recruited unevenly and very poorly, overall. Herman has worked his ass off to plug the holes in the roster and recruit positions more evenly.

In the roster thread Machinator demonstrates it pretty clearly.

1 hour ago, Napoleon said:

At least Charlie never hired a "Strength & Conditioning Coach" that looked like this fat fuck.

 

We lost so many games due solely to the fact that our players were physically unprepared to play it makes me rage-y.

Our best teams took it upon themselves to develop themselves and to coach themselves (at least on offense) because Mack was incapable of making the decisions needed to help the players. Then he stopped recruiting players who could take over the program to do the job that he was supposed to do and Charlie was in so far over his head that he deserved more pity than scorn.

Pity for a man whose parting words were "the cake is baked" for the next coach? Strong was every bit as full of himself as Mack and never once doubted his own abilities, and he obviously believed that he could turn it around in year 4 or 5 in spite of everything.

Charlie was no doubt over his head. Many saw that clearly early on. Hell, the writing was on the wall for everyone with eyes to see. The Strong apologists kept their blinders on for a very long time, as evidenced in this thread.

[RomaVicta 30603]

Go ahead. Get it all out, guys. It must have been tough not to have a coach to loathe these last few weeks.

I suggest we start one of these oldies thread once a month.

[Napoleon 8837]

58 minutes ago, Disco Missile said:

...Pity for a man whose parting words were "the cake is baked" for the next coach? Strong was every bit as full of himself as Mack and never once doubted his own abilities, and he obviously believed that he could turn it around in year 4 or 5 in spite of everything.

Charlie was no doubt over his head. Many saw that clearly early on. Hell, the writing was on the wall for everyone with eyes to see. The Strong apologists kept their blinders on for a very long time, as evidenced in this thread.

I was a Charlie supporter/apologist, but the more that comes out and the more I see the old familiar special teams failures with USF, the more I realize that Charlie is incapable of actually running a program and being a head coach. Louisville was successful due to Teddy Bridgewater and what was already there.

Mack was smart enough to know better, but his hubris destroyed Texas.

Charlie was too dumb to know better, so his hubris was understandable. (He didn't have the aptitude to know better, so some of the blame has to fall on this guy...

It's like blaming someone with dementia for all the stupid mistakes they make, Charlie just doesn't have what it takes to understand that he doesn't know it all. 

[MrPhlegm 3413]

Ahem

[MrPhlegm 3413]

You go now!

You been hear fo hour!

You go now!


Rip John Pinette.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 hours ago, Napoleon said:

THIS!!

Mack just loaded up his iPod and came along for the ride.

After Mack choked away another fucking game to OU VY's sophomore year, Vince went to Mack and said "Coach, just let me play." And Mack stopped coaching (or strangling his coaches & players) and Texas never lost another game with Vince as QB.

yeah Vince did an awesome job coordinating the defense and teaching the DBs their technique

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

14 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Go ahead. Get it all out, guys. It must have been tough not to have a coach to loathe these last few weeks.

I suggest we start one of these oldies thread once a month.

I made your Mom primal scream last night

[Dennis Taylor 19365]

14 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

 

 

I had no idea so i just googled it and this douchenozzle lasted less than a year as team president/CEO of the Phoenix Coyotes   

Edited November 30, 2018 by Dennis Taylor

[Napoleon 8837]

6 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

yeah Vince did an awesome job coordinating the defense and teaching the DBs their technique

Vince didn't teach Defense and neither did Mack.

So my point still stands, Mack didn't coach shit. He just came along for the ride.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

 

So my point still stands, 

OK cool

[chase25 2048]

8 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

Vince didn't teach Defense and neither did Mack.

So my point still stands, Mack didn't coach shit. He just came along for the ride.

This might be one of the dumbest takes of all-time regardless of your feelings about Mack.

Do you think Nick Saban coaches offense? How much of either side of the ball do HCs really coach? You certainly see more and more offensive HCs calling plays now. Mack was an offensive coach, he definitely had a hand in the offense some bad some good. I would hope a guy who played RB in college and never coached on the defensive side of the ball in his life, would be hands off with the defense.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Texas25

[Magus Ossis 3000]

To uncouple Mack from the 2005 championship is fatuous. Would Mackovic have won it? Would Charlie had he come back then? Would RC had we hired him away as we did Bible? Mack was always too soft against OU. He went downhill late in his time here. He stayed too long and took too much money. But that championship was a product of his being here.

[tbone_ 14454]

This is true. It’s an odd combination though.

[ButtFumble 5287]

32 minutes ago, MrPhlegm said:

Ahem

yea I blame this guy too

 

and I don't hate Mack, but he got arrogant and lazy and shitted on the program on the way out

I don't hate Charlie and I even liked him until he shitted on the players on the way out because he was bitter and it showed I thought that showed a lack of mental fortitude and self control and the inability to have a fucking clue about expectations...you have to have your head in your ass to look at that OkState and KU game as a 3rd year coach and not think "I am so fucking fired right now"

I kind of hoped for him to do good at USF, but then again he is pretty much proving Texas 100% right on only giving him 3 years because his teams are doing the same stupid shit and falling apart the same way they did at Texas....and fuck a lot of USF fans for thinking shit was going to be better for them than Texas over last season and this one and future ones

Edited November 30, 2018 by ButtFumble

[Johnny Sack 8397]

19 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

Vince didn't teach Defense and neither did Mack.

So my point still stands, Mack didn't coach shit. He just came along for the ride.

Mack was overall excellent at managing the clock.  And that’s something he did.  He was also good at knowing when to call a fake punt and knowing when to challenge a call.  And we had great special teams under him.  

The man drove me crazy in many respects of his refusal to do a few simple things to maximize our program (like norm recruiting out of state, not recruiting jucos and his obsession with wanting to claim we got 24 of 27 offers instead of fighting for recruits who weren’t automatic commits).  But he did a lot of good shit.  

[Napoleon 8837]

9 minutes ago, Magus Ossis said:

To uncouple Mack from the 2005 championship is fatuous. Would Mackovic have won it? Would Charlie had he come back then? Would RC had we hired him away as we did Bible? Mack was always too soft against OU. He went downhill late in his time here. He stayed too long and took too much money. But that championship was a product of his being here.

Yes, you are correct. 

He recruited the players that took the reins and led the team in the offseason, because Fat Dog was no Yancy. All of those draft picks on that team weren't 3 Stars and lower, so Mack & Co. definitely get credit for bringing them in. Even Greg Davis gets credit for scrapping his offense for Vince and reworking things off of the zone read, which was an extremely rare offense at that time. But until Mack stopped micromanaging, Texas could lose against any good team. Once Mack went hands-off, Vince never lost another game. It has been documented and I will repeat it as many times as is needed for everyone on here to understand it. The best coaching job that Mack ever did was when he stopped coaching and let the team win without his meddling.

[ButtFumble 5287]

3 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

Yes, you are correct. 

He recruited the players that took the reins and led the team in the offseason, because Fat Dog was no Yancy. All of those draft picks on that team weren't 3 Stars and lower, so Mack & Co. definitely get credit for bringing them in. Even Greg Davis gets credit for scrapping his offense for Vince and reworking things off of the zone read, which was an extremely rare offense at that time. But until Mack stopped micromanaging, Texas could lose against any good team. Once Mack went hands-off, Vince never lost another game. It has been documented and I will repeat it as many times as is needed for everyone on here to understand it. The best coaching job that Mack ever did was when he stopped coaching and let the team win without his meddling.

I think he did pretty well in those Colt years and especially 2009

his massive downfall his entire time at Texas was QB evaluation though....he massively fucked up the Chrissy Simms Major Applewhite situation......he recruited top QBs as DBs and let a shit tonne of them go other places and wreck shop while Texas struggled with "meh" and most of all he had no one with a pulse to take over in the MNC when Colt went down

I thought GG played amazing in that game considering he walked in the game basically having taken about 6 college snaps before that and i thought GG took a lot of unfair shit after that, but Mack let good QBs walk away because he was a "nice guy" and the kids just wanted to be somewhere they could play.....he could not evaluate QBs worth a shit to recruit them and he could not sell decent ones on staying with the program and getting their chance when that chance came and in fact it is almost like he welcomed the chance for them to leave and go elsewhere and play just enjoy the game they loved

[bschoolprof 6343]

why in the fuck is this thread a hot topic? Anyone with half a brain cell knew by the end of 2014 that Strong sucked. Time to move on, time to get goin'.  

Edited November 30, 2018 by bschoolprof

[Pato del Muerto 53527]

Time to let bygones be bygones and bring back jim leavitt. 

[closetojumping 65447]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Mack was overall excellent at managing the clock.  And that’s something he did.  He was also good at knowing when to call a fake punt and knowing when to challenge a call.  And we had great special teams under him.  

The man drove me crazy in many respects of his refusal to do a few simple things to maximize our program (like norm recruiting out of state, not recruiting jucos and his obsession with wanting to claim we got 24 of 27 offers instead of fighting for recruits who weren’t automatic commits).  But he did a lot of good shit.  

The man could work the confidence of a kicker into our favor, over and over again. Did we ever miss a field goal that would have tied or won the game in the final minute of play under Mack Brown? I can't think of one. He was a wizard in that regard.

I think the two biggest issues regarding Mack Brown ultimately coming undone at Texas are as follows:

1) Comfort coaching/admin hires - Mack would only go out and find the best coaching/help in areas in which he didn't possess a strong allegiance (DC/DL) or if he was forced to do so (firing GD). He had a nasty habit of hanging on to dead weight for far too long, and he didn't foment a culture in which folks could disagree with him unless they also possessed power. Buy-in to his needs and vision superseded the right coaching selections and solutions repeatedly. Even ahead of the 2005 title, Texas underachieved with this as a major puzzle piece problem for Brown.

2) Recruiting sloth and talent - People attribute the late stage performances from Brown's teams as evidence of a decline in his recruiting that must have faltered apparently starting in like 2009/2010. This is untrue. Brown started making lazy decisions around recruiting immediately following the title. He got lucky with McCoy, Shipley, and Cosby finding near perfection and strong defensive recruiting and coaching from Muschamp heading into 2008/2009. The OL deterioration in talent and depth began in the 2006 recruiting cycle. 

Beyond that, Brown's paranoid bullshit with fans, dissenting admins, the Internet, and the media, and therefore his efforts and energy to attempt to control these things, or destroy them, make him an incredibly unredeeming guy for folks who dealt with any of that. By the end, he had tirelessly worked his ass off to create an image of who he was that people would adore, and yet he built the foundation for that on moving sand as he spent so little time doing anything that didn't directly lead to feeling adored by the audience, such as firing dead weight, hustling beyond Austin for recruiting, or self-scouting tendencies with his staff and team. 

In the end, I'm thankful for Brown's run, but he should wake up every day and thank God for Vince Young. I personally despise the man for the way he handled the aftermath of the 2005 game. He's the flip side to the Saban coin - the example of what you do not do after winning a title at a blue blood that could otherwise win several more with the right focus.

[TrashMaster G 18106]

22 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Mack was overall excellent at managing the clock. 

I generally agree with the rest of your post and most of the time would agree with this part, but his biggest failing in clock management came at just about the most critical time imaginable.   I'm talking about our last drive in Lubbock in 2008.  It was crystal clear that was going to be our last possession and there was no excuse to not drain the clock as we went.

The Gideon drop and the Crabtree catch never should have happened because the game should have been over.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

The man could work the confidence of a kicker into our favor, over and over again. Did we ever miss a field goal that would have tied or won the game in the final minute of play under Mack Brown? I can't think of one. He was a wizard in that regard.

I think the two biggest issues regarding Mack Brown ultimately coming undone at Texas are as follows:

1) Comfort coaching/admin hires - Mack would only go out and find the best coaching/help in areas in which he didn't possess a strong allegiance (DC/DL) or if he was forced to do so (firing GD). He had a nasty habit of hanging on to dead weight for far too long, and he didn't foment a culture in which folks could disagree with him unless they also possessed power. Buy-in to his needs and vision superseded the right coaching selections and solutions repeatedly. Even ahead of the 2005 title, Texas underachieved with this as a major puzzle piece problem for Brown.

2) Recruiting sloth and talent - People attribute the late stage performances from Brown's teams as evidence of a decline in his recruiting that must have faltered apparently starting in like 2009/2010. This is untrue. Brown started making lazy decisions around recruiting immediately following the title. He got lucky with McCoy, Shipley, and Cosby finding near perfection and strong defensive recruiting and coaching from Muschamp heading into 2008/2009. The OL deterioration in talent and depth began in the 2006 recruiting cycle. 

Beyond that, Brown's paranoid bullshit with fans, dissenting admins, the Internet, and the media, and therefore his efforts and energy to attempt to control these things, or destroy them, make him an incredibly unredeeming guy for folks who dealt with any of that. By the end, he had tirelessly worked his ass off to create an image of who he was that people would adore, and yet he built the foundation for that on moving sand as he spent so little time doing anything that didn't directly lead to feeling adored by the audience, such as firing dead weight, hustling beyond Austin for recruiting, or self-scouting tendencies with his staff and team. 

In the end, I'm thankful for Brown's run, but he should wake up every day and thank God for Vince Young. I personally despise the man for the way he handled the aftermath of the 2005 game. He's the flip side to the Saban coin - the example of what you do not do after winning a title at a blue blood that could otherwise win several more with the right focus.

Did it not also drive you crazy when he bragged in his signing day press conferences that we landed 24 of 27 offers?

That always caused my blood pressure to shoot up.  That isn’t a good thing.  Means we were taking way, way too many easy gets.  Got worse later in husband tenure.  

Edited November 30, 2018 by Johnny Sack

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, TrashMaster G said:

I generally agree with the rest of your post and most of the time would agree with this part, but his biggest failing in clock management came at just about the most critical time imaginable.   I'm talking about our last drive in Lubbock in 2008.  It was crystal clear that was going to be our last possession and there was no excuse to not drain the clock as we went.

The Gideon drop and the Crabtree catch never should have happened because the game should have been over.

I was screaming at my tv on that drive that we should run clock down.  That is a notable exception. But overall he was brilliant at end of half clock management. 

[Rimbo 27036]

15 hours ago, Hellraiser97 said:

The cupboard wasn't half as bare as the Charlie lovefest wanted us to believe.  Mack was far from perfect, particularly at the end, but he had enough talent to win 8 games his last year and I guarantee we would have won more than 16 games over the next three years had Mack stayed.  The biggest problem Mack had was staying Manny _iaz after year 2.  He didn't want to have full turnover of the staff again so quickly and after Harsin bolted, he chose to stick with _iaz.  

It was time for Mack to go, but Strong was just a lazy hire.  He wasn't that great at Louisville and his on the field game was practically a mirror of Mack (underperforming offenses, failed to rise to the level on too many big games, etc.).  There were plenty of coaches out there that could have fixed the entitlement issues of the players without wrecking the program.

Strong may have left more talent than Brown did, I think that's debatable given how thin we still are at so many positions, but one thing that Mack left that Charlie didn't was an expectation to win.  The players Charlie left expected to lose.  That should NEVER happen at Texas.

You're mostly right, but let's not get so mad at Strong that we end up rewriting history for the cause.

"he had enough talent to win 8 games his last year" -- yes, and they graduated that same year. The players that won the few games we did in subsequent years were Strong's recruits, not Mack's. The ones who transferred didn't get much done, either.

"He wasn't that great at Louisville" -- Few people recognized that at the time. At the time, his name was as hot as anyone's not named "Saban." The problem is that the "hot" coaching hire isn't the one you necessarily want -- I remember Gary Barnett being the hot name when Mack was hired (thus texlarry's famous "I'm stunned. I'm pissed" comment), but Barnett turned out to be a dud, and Mack reset our standards for winning, even getting us to a couple of MNC games and winning one of them.

[Gene Parmesan 4064]

1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

I don’t necessarily agree on the Tech 2008 game.  Our offense had been hit and miss that game, and trying to run a few more plays to bleed the clock could have caused us to not score at all.  We weren’t a great power running team that could feel confident about punching it in whenever we wanted to.  I think we just had to try to score as best as we could.

This has always been my stance.  Obviously hindsight proves us wrong, but it wasn't an offensive shootout like we see today.  We weren't scoring at will nothing was guaranteed.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

You're mostly right, but let's not get so mad at Strong that we end up rewriting history for the cause.

"he had enough talent to win 8 games his last year" -- yes, and they graduated that same year. The players that won the few games we did in subsequent years were Strong's recruits, not Mack's. The ones who transferred didn't get much done, either.

"He wasn't that great at Louisville" -- Few people recognized that at the time. At the time, his name was as hot as anyone's not named "Saban." The problem is that the "hot" coaching hire isn't the one you necessarily want -- I remember Gary Barnett being the hot name when Mack was hired (thus texlarry's famous "I'm stunned. I'm pissed" comment), but Barnett turned out to be a dud, and Mack reset our standards for winning, even getting us to a couple of MNC games and winning one of them.

If you go game by game and look at all the close calls Strong had against absolute garbage teams, his UL resume doesn’t look good. 

And Strong inherited some very good seniors on defense.  

[RomaVicta 30603]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I made your Mom primal scream last night

I hope you had the decency to re-bury her when you were done.

[Rimbo 27036]

36 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Mack was overall excellent at managing the clock.  And that’s something he did.  He was also good at knowing when to call a fake punt and knowing when to challenge a call.  And we had great special teams under him.

Not at first, we didn't. UNC fans warned us about our special teams sucking under Mack. He obviously figured it out and got a lot better at it. Strong hasn't, yet, obviously.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Rimbo said:

Not at first, we didn't. UNC fans warned us about our special teams sucking under Mack. He obviously figured it out and got a lot better at it. Strong hasn't, yet, obviously.

Overall Mack’s special teams were an A at Texas. 

[Bevo 13900]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I hope you had the decency to re-bury her when you were done.

Sorry, was that wrong?

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

11 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

You're mostly right, but let's not get so mad at Strong that we end up rewriting history for the cause.

"he had enough talent to win 8 games his last year" -- yes, and they graduated that same year. The players that won the few games we did in subsequent years were Strong's recruits, not Mack's. The ones who transferred didn't get much done, either.

"He wasn't that great at Louisville" -- Few people recognized that at the time. At the time, his name was as hot as anyone's not named "Saban." The problem is that the "hot" coaching hire isn't the one you necessarily want -- I remember Gary Barnett being the hot name when Mack was hired (thus texlarry's famous "I'm stunned. I'm pissed" comment), but Barnett turned out to be a dud, and Mack reset our standards for winning, even getting us to a couple of MNC games and winning one of them.

Many recognized his louisville record was full of holes and he was a disorganized mess.  His pc confirmed it

[Rimbo 27036]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

If you go game by game and look at all the close calls Strong had against absolute garbage teams, his UL resume doesn’t look good. 

And Strong inherited some very good seniors on defense.  

Yeah, if you did anything resembling looking closely at Strong, it was apparent he was a bad hire. But most of us -- including Patterson -- didn't bother. Our hiring process in 1997 did, which is how we managed to escape Barnett.

You're right about defensive seniors, but there was hardly anything left in the pipeline after them. Same is true of the Strong -> Tom transition; our defense isn't bad this year because of Orlando suddenly forgetting how to coach; it's bad because our best players left for the draft and the remaining upperclassmen are journeymen who couldn't crack the 2-deep any earlier.

[LTtxfan 50007]

1 hour ago, MrPhlegm said:

You go now!

You been hear fo hour!

You go now!


Rip John Pinette.

 

 "Giant Waterslide.......  Nay.... Nay!!"

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by LTtxfan

[Rimbo 27036]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Overall Mack’s special teams were an A at Texas. 

He fixed his issues. But they were bad at UNC, and they were bad the first couple of years here. I think the NCSU game was the wake-up call that he needed to fix his special teams, and they were a plus part of his teams ever after. I'll always grant Mack credit for that change, and being able to change.

The trouble was that after 2005 and 2009 he made a couple of the wrong changes. In 2005, he changed how he recruited. In 2009, rather than recognize that the 2005 change was the cause of the issue (smaller, smarter OL recruited rather than the beasts we were loaded with in '05), he tried "let's run the same offense the team that beat us was running."

[closetojumping 65447]

5 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

He fixed his issues. But they were bad at UNC, and they were bad the first couple of years here. I think the NCSU game was the wake-up call that he needed to fix his special teams, and they were a plus part of his teams ever after. I'll always grant Mack credit for that change, and being able to change.

The trouble was that after 2005 and 2009 he made a couple of the wrong changes. In 2005, he changed how he recruited. In 2009, rather than recognize that the 2005 change was the cause of the issue (smaller, smarter OL recruited rather than the beasts we were loaded with in '05), he tried "let's run the same offense the team that beat us was running."

One other critical fuck-up that beats damn near everything else, and it impacted the Chuckles Strong era as well, is the Garrett Gilbert bullshit. Canceling out QB choices across 3 classes to meet the demands of a serial rapist father and his overrated, over-striding, over-winding QB of a son was a massive fuck-up. Gilbert wasn't worth any of that. He was overrated by Geoff Ketchum, when his voice with Rivals mattered, and beloved by Austinites on the boards, and Mack and Crew went for him hook, line and sinker. It had a devastating impact on the trajectory of the program. 

Folks can say no one would have seen that coming, but plenty of us had concerns about Gilbert before he ever stepped on campus - directly associated to his mechanics, which of course, failed him repeatedly in college. Hoped for the best with him, but yeah, it played out as poorly as it could have and was also just strategically fucking dumb.

[ztejas 44233]

1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

One other critical fuck-up that beats damn near everything else, and it impacted the Chuckles Strong era as well, is the Garrett Gilbert bullshit. Canceling out QB choices across 3 classes to meet the demands of a serial rapist father and his overrated, over-striding, over-winding QB of a son was a massive fuck-up. Gilbert wasn't worth any of that. He was overrated by Geoff Ketchum, when his voice with Rivals mattered, and beloved by Austinites on the boards, and Mack and Crew went for him hook, line and sinker. It had a devastating impact on the trajectory of the program. 

Folks can say no one would have seen that coming, but plenty of us had concerns about Gilbert before he ever stepped on campus - directly associated to his mechanics, which of course, failed him repeatedly in college. Hoped for the best with him, but yeah, it played out as poorly as it could have and was also just strategically fucking dumb.

That and all of the other QB recruiting fuck ups that transpired after Vince left. The amount of Texas born and bred QBs that absolutely crushed it for other teams between 2005 and 2016 was absolutely sickening.

You're in Austin, Texas and you don't have an elite college QB under center 100% of the time? Inexcusable.

And no I didn't forget about Colt - Colt was a 3 star that almost didn't make it. Mack lucked into another 5 years of coaching when Colt turned the corner and became full Texas legend status.

[Tex Pete 21489]

4 hours ago, Napoleon said:

At least Charlie never hired a "Strength & Conditioning Coach" that looked like this fat fuck.

 

We lost so many games due solely to the fact that our players were physically unprepared to play it makes me rage-y.

Yet Fat Dog was infinitely better at his job than Bennie Wylie was, and the results on the field bore that out.

Wylie, BTW, is OU's strength coach now...and they play like it. Charmin Soft.

[Lhorn 5095]

I am forever greatly for KU finding a way to beat us. A win, even an unimpressive one and he probably would have gotten another year, likely diminishing recruiting results and we would have missed out on hiring Herman. Not that Herman has proven to be perfect but I like the trend and it’s fair to say we could have made another trash hire that we’d still be regretting to this day. 

BTW if we kept CS for another year or missed on him because LSU got him, who would have been the likely hire?

[Slacks 7066]

I think everyone is over looking the thing that mattered most... QB.

When Mack had GG, we sucked.

When Mack had VY & Colt, we were great.

When Mack had Ash/Case we slightly above average.

Charlie expected Ash and got Swoopes/Heard...  until Buechele showed up and started as a True FR.

Now Buechele is a Jr and only sees the field for injury and Heard is a backup WR.

Our defenses are still getting torched, but our offense does not suck, because our QB does not suck, and thus, the team is playing for a conference championship.

 

Anybody who doesn't think Mack didn't leave the OL/DL/LB/QB depth in shambles is being oblivious on purpose...

Yes, Charlie screwed up on offense and never recovered, but the love child of Briles and everyone's favorite, Harsin, wouldn't have made Swoopes work... (Briles with Heard, maybe...)

 

The cake wasn't baked when Herman arrived, but it finally had flour and eggs... 

 

[Tex Pete 21489]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Mack was overall excellent at managing the clock.  And that’s something he did.  He was also good at knowing when to call a fake punt and knowing when to challenge a call.  And we had great special teams under him.  

But that Nebraska 2010 quick kick...

[Tex Pete 21489]

2 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Yeah, that was one of the dumbest things I’ve ever seen.  Send the FG team out and punt right at the guy they had deep expecting a punt or short FG.  Watch helplessly as they return it past your team of all OL and kickers.

I was there. And I was speechless. (actually not true. I said lots and lots of four letter words)

We almost lost a game we had controlled from the beginning because of that complete idiocy.

[Rimbo 27036]

30 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Folks can say no one would have seen that coming, but plenty of us had concerns about Gilbert before he ever stepped on campus - directly associated to his mechanics, which of course, failed him repeatedly in college. Hoped for the best with him, but yeah, it played out as poorly as it could have and was also just strategically fucking dumb.

Geez. This is one time where I was actually right about something. I remember seeing his HS highlight videos and thinking, "I'll defer to everyone else's opinion on this, but God, his throwing motion looks ..." and I'll not mention the two pejoratives that were in my mind back then because they're not the sort of words I use any more. Gone all politically correct, I have.

Of course, then he looked almost decent in the game against Bama, his fans seemed validated, and I wrote that disgusting filthy literary equivalent of a cum-swallowing blow job for him... you know, I just realize that I'm glad the old site is gone.

But now I wonder... what would that game have looked like if we'd put Sherrod Harris in?

22 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Wylie, BTW, is OU's strength coach now...and they play like it. Charmin Soft.

Oh dear word... this is the best news I've heard all day. May his tenure there last for decades.

And hearing you say that you liked Madden better than Wylie is striking to me, because I don't remember you being a Mad Dog fan, either.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Rimbo

[Tex Pete 21489]

Just now, Rimbo said:

Oh dear word... this is the best news I've heard all day. May his tenure there last for decades.

And hearing you say that you liked Madden better than Wylie is striking to me, because I don't remember you being a Mad Dog fan, either.

I wasn't a fan of Mad Dog at all, especially by 2010. But his shortcomings were mostly the same as the rest of Bellmont's: complacency, laziness, arrogance, and lack of accountability.

Mad Dog's S&C knowledge is good. He was credible. Not sure how well he kept up with the science of it all, but he just wasn't doing his job by the time the wheels came off. He sat in his office and didn't make sure people were doing what they were supposed to be doing. Newsflash: they weren't!

When Wylie came aboard, change had to be better, right? WRONG! I expected good things, but my hope was misplaced. The guy looks like Adonis and coaches his players accordingly. That doesn't necessarily build functional strength, which is what football players need. When I heard Wylie had entire workouts with all sets over 20 reps, that was the clincher for me. It made total sense why our lines looked like they played on roller skates. The dude is probably the right coach for athletes in some sports, but not for football players. Can he change? Sure. But look at them and you'll see he hasn't.

[0xdeadbeef 1699]

4 hours ago, Napoleon said:

THIS!!

Mack just loaded up his iPod and came along for the ride.

After Mack choked away another fucking game to OU VY's sophomore year, Vince went to Mack and said "Coach, just let me play." And Mack stopped coaching (or strangling his coaches & players) and Texas never lost another game with Vince as QB.

This has got to be the most bizzaro revisionist post I've seen in a long time.  

Mack brown went 101-16 over a nine year period from 2001 through 2009.  That's a tad bit better than "along for the ride".

 

[Phoenix 65]

I think the hate comes from the fact that there were so many Charlie apologists (mostly blek guys) that stated it was UT's (and Mack's) fault that he didn't do well here. He was just bad. It just goes to show that recruiting is only one piece of the puzzle.

[DCA_HORN 725]

I don’t necessarily agree on the Tech 2008 game.  Our offense had been hit and miss that game, and trying to run a few more plays to bleed the clock could have caused us to not score at all.  We weren’t a great power running team that could feel confident about punching it in whenever we wanted to.  I think we just had to try to score as best as we could.

Maybe true but maybe snapping the ball with less than 15 seconds on the play clock would have been nice.