B12 CCG: Should it exist?

[Magus Ossis 2,784]

I hated the idea that OU would get a rematch against us until it became obvious that that we would be the 2 seed in the game (and hence the dirt burglars would be the champions without a CCG). Now I still dislike our methodology of crowning a champion in general but am very glad for the chance to prove that our win over OU was no fluke and that we should be champions. I guess I am glad we have one in 2018 but am ready to abolish it at the final gun.

[Tex Long 4,356]

Nah.

[Continental Op 3,934]

I voted for all of the options just because the poll allowed me do that. 

[4th&Five 41,462]

No, it's stupid and will fuck us over at some point.  Let's go win the fucking thing though.

[tbone_ 14,032]

I can’t think of anything our conference does that isn’t moronic.

 

That said, looking forward to seeing ou lose again and us winning the damn conference.

 

[TXSooner518 2,432]

Almost every season it will be counterproductive. A season like this one is the only type where it is beneficial - where the top seed needs a win to push into the playoffs, and where the 2 seed beat the 1 seed in the reg season.  Will be ridiculous when a 9-0 team has to beat a 6-3 team it already beat to be "conference champs" and is a negative freeroll for the league in getting a team in the playoff.

[SimonBolivar 10,949]

Quote

My ideas are too nuanced for a multiple choice poll.

The inner machinations of my mind are an enigma

[DaysOff 7,855]

Almost every season it will be counterproductive. A season like this one is the only type where it is beneficial - where the top seed needs a win to push into the playoffs, and where the 2 seed beat the 1 seed in the reg season.  Will be ridiculous when a 9-0 team has to beat a 6-3 team it already beat to be "conference champs" and is a negative freeroll for the league in getting a team in the playoff.

Take the loss pussy

[cfpisrigged 4]

It was created because of the bullshit cfp excuse that Ohio St got in over TCU and Baylor due to their 13th data point. When everyone knew it was just so they could put a bigger name team into the game. Now if it had been Texas and Oklahoma that Ohio St jumped there would be some reason for it, but I doubt that would have happened. I don't think Ohio St winning against Northwestern would be a legitimate reason to vote them over Ou if they didn't play next week. I think how the cfp ranks the two tomorrow would be the same a week later whether Ou would beat Texas or not play them.

Edited November 26, 2018 by cfpisrigged

[Valmy77 13,125]

I don't know yet. I am kind of intrigued by the idea of a conference title game that actually matches up the top 2 instead of arbitrary divisions. I mean it seems counterproductive for getting teams in the playoff though, which is what it is supposed to do.

['stache 21,778]

It's stupid.  Fuck OU, please beat them.

[TXSooner518 2,432]

1 minute ago, cfpisrigged said:

It was created because of the bullshit cfp excuse that Ohio St got in over TCU and Baylor due to their 13th data point. When everyone knew it was just so they could put a bigger name team into the game. Now if it had been Texas and Oklahoma that Ohio St jumped there would be some reason for it, but I doubt that would have happened. I don't think Ohio St winning against Northwestern would be a legitimate reason to vote them over Ou if they didn't play next week. However, how the cfp ranks the two tomorrow would be the same a week later whether Ou would beat Texas or not play them.

This was because the Big 12 was so stupid, they misunderstood "the 13th data point" as meaning "they played 13 games" when really they meant "in the 13th game, they throatfucked a ranked team by 59 points."  As will also be shown as ND plays 12 games and gets in over 12-1 teams this year.

The B12 also I think was hurt by the fact that everyone knew TCU was the superior team, but BU won the head to head, so that made taking either one icky, more than the "brands" involved. If TCU had beaten BU but lost some other game, I think it is much more likely that TCU would have gotten selected, as they were the best team as well as the "rightful" champion in that scenario.

[TrashMaster G 17,397]

12 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

I can’t think of anything our conference does that isn’t moronic.

 

Well, there's no aggy, so that's something.

[babysdaddy 2,718]

it's great this year, it will suck next year and suck in the following years.  If I was OU I'd be pissed because they should have the Big 12 locked up and be headed to the playoffs.  Instead they have to play us again...the team they lost to. muhahahahahahaha.  TTLP

[Wally Fairway 5,528]

While I think it is a bad idea; it is no worse than that conferences that have divisions and get an unbalanced championship game. They can also get rematches
Like UCF (8-0/11-0 having to play Memphis (5-3/8-4) again and Clemson (12-0) playing a Pitt (7-5) or OSU (11-1) playing Northwestern (8-4 - including a loss to Akron)

Nobody ever said CCGs are a perfect way to settle bowl bids, but they can help (or hurt) a teams chances at getting into the playoffs (and more TV money)

[Zavala 1,384]

The big12 shouldn't exist.

[Zavala 1,384]

We get to play against these turds again! Whoopie! 

I would've been happy to avenge the WVU loss in Gloryhole land, but no, we get blowU again. With all the reason in the world for the zebras to fuck us, hard.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Zavala

[Huckleberry 32,710]

No, it's fucking stupid and Oklahoma should be the conference champions for this season. It doesn't matter who is where in the standings, having a conference championship game after a full round robin is dumb and could only be created by the idiots in the Big 12 office who decided they needed to do it because they suck at publicizing all of these things:

1. Conference Strength - The Big 12 is once again the second best conference in the country but nobody knows that. https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
2. Schedule Design - The above set is based on a simple average but doesn't even account for the fact that the difference in conference schedules makes a Big 12 slate even more difficult relative to other conferences. Everybody plays everyone, so you don't completely miss matchups like the SEC in particular does. There are 45 possible matchups between the top 10 teams in any conference; based on the above ratings here is how many of those matchups took place in each conference: Big 12 - 45, Pac-12 - 36, Big 10 - 29, SEC - 28, ACC - 26. That is SEVENTEEN LOSSES that the SEC made disappear from their ten best teams' records.
3. Related to #2 above is that we don't play FCS week in November. This also leads to #4 below.
4. Calculated Schedule Difficulty - #2 and #3 are why this happens despite the SEC being better than the Big 12 this year: Average Sagarin SOS - Big 12 23.6, SEC 23.0. Essentially despite the SEC's average team being much better than the Big 12's average team this year, playing a Big 12 conference schedule was on average just as difficult as playing an SEC conference schedule. This is not a fluke, either, the Big 12 has had the toughest average schedule in years where the SEC was theoretically better.
5. We are the only conference that ALREADY guaranteed that our two best teams played in the regular season. It already happened, rematches are stupid. The end.

I'm sure there are more reasons but there you go. Along with the issue discussed above about the Big 12 administration having no fucking clue what the CFP committee is actually looking at and falling for bullshit.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Huckleberry

[cfpisrigged 4]

7 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

This was because the Big 12 was so stupid, they misunderstood "the 13th data point" as meaning "they played 13 games" when really they meant "in the 13th game, they throatfucked a ranked team by 59 points."  As will also be shown as ND plays 12 games and gets in over 12-1 teams this year.

The B12 also I think was hurt by the fact that everyone knew TCU was the superior team, but BU won the head to head, so that made taking either one icky, more than the "brands" involved. If TCU had beaten BU but lost some other game, I think it is much more likely that TCU would have gotten selected, as they were the best team as well as the "rightful" champion in that scenario.

I just really don't buy that brand recognition had nothing to do with Ohio St getting in. You don't believe that had it been a scenario similar to 08 with both a 1 loss Texas and Oklahoma team that Ohio St gets in over either of those teams because deciding the tie would be "icky." Ohio St got in because they were the better draw for viewers and it just helped that they killed Wisconsin in their CCG. It didn't matter how much Ohio St won buy the committee had the 13th data point excuse made up well in advance. It's the same reason Bama gets in without winning their conference.

[taybo20 2,815]

Yeah we don’t need this game to exist. Fuck ou

[Spankytoes 1,736]

Put me in the camp that doesn't care. I see why the Big 12 instituted it. I don't understand why we couldn't just add an additional OOC game before starting conference play. I'm not going to whine about it like most do though. We benefit from its existence this year. We did not benefit from its existence in 2008, where we would have played ou again if not for divisions. It didn't mean shit in 2003 when ou lost and still got to play in the MNC game. 

I suppose I see the logic in a team that is 9-3 with their 3 losses being OOC. They may be playing an 11-1 team as an opponent, who is at least better than they are on paper despite losing the head-to-head. 

[Valmy77 13,125]

Ohio State got in because they are Ohio State. Baylor and TCU having a rematch wasn't going to help either one not being exciting to the Committee.

[TXSooner518 2,432]

4 minutes ago, cfpisrigged said:

I just really don't buy that brand recognition had nothing to do with Ohio St getting in. You don't believe that had it been a scenario similar to 08 with both a 1 loss Texas and Oklahoma team that Ohio St gets in over either of those teams because deciding the tie would be "icky." Ohio St got in because they were the better draw for viewers and it just helped that they killed Wisconsin in their CCG. It didn't matter how much Ohio St won buy the committee had the 13th data point excuse made up well in advance. It's the same reason Bama gets in without winning their conference.

I'm not saying it had nothing to do with that, of course. I'm just saying the committee was in a tough spot as to what B12 team to take, and tOSU solved their problem in a couple of ways.

[SimonBolivar 10,949]

4 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Ohio State got in because they are Ohio State. Baylor and TCU having a rematch wasn't going to help either one not being exciting to the Committee.

I still think TCU would've won it all that year over tOSU. 

[Zavala 1,384]

12 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

No, it's fucking stupid and Oklahoma should be the conference champions for this season. It doesn't matter who is where in the standings, having a conference championship game after a full round robin is dumb and could only be created by the idiots in the Big 12 office who decided they needed to do it because they suck at publicizing all of these things:

1. Conference Strength - The Big 12 is once again the second best conference in the country but nobody knows that. https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
2. Schedule Design - The above set is based on a simple average but doesn't even account for the fact that the difference in conference schedules makes a Big 12 slate even more difficult relative to other conferences. Everybody plays everyone, so you don't completely miss matchups like the SEC in particular does. There are 45 possible matchups between the top 10 teams in any conference; based on the above ratings here is how many of those matchups took place in each conference: Big 12 - 45, Pac-12 - 36, Big 10 - 29, SEC - 28, ACC - 26. That is SEVENTEEN LOSSES that the SEC made disappear from their ten best teams' records.
3. Related to #2 above is that we don't play FCS week in November. This also leads to #4 below.
4. Calculated Schedule Difficulty - #2 and #3 are why this happens despite the SEC being better than the Big 12 this year: Average Sagarin SOS - Big 12 23.6, SEC 23.0. Essentially despite the SEC's average team being much better than the Big 12's average team this year, playing a Big 12 conference schedule was on average just as difficult as playing an SEC conference schedule. This is not a fluke, either, the Big 12 has had the toughest average schedule in years where the SEC was theoretically better.
5. We are the only conference that ALREADY guaranteed that our two best teams played in the regular season. It already happened, rematches are stupid. The end.

I'm sure there are more reasons but there you go. Along with the issue discussed above about the Big 12 administration having no fucking clue what the CFP committee is actually looking at and falling for bullshit.

You forgot to consider money, somebody has to make a deal with Jerry Jones to pay for all these dubstep loops and lasers.

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/dphG/big-12-conference-every-game-matters

[Zavala 1,384]

7 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Ohio State got in because they are Ohio State. Baylor and TCU having a rematch wasn't going to help either one not being exciting to the Committee.

Yup. It's all about the dollar bills. The committee is for show.

[Al_4_ISU 12,409]

35 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Almost every season it will be counterproductive. A season like this one is the only type where it is beneficial - where the top seed needs a win to push into the playoffs, and where the 2 seed beat the 1 seed in the reg season.  Will be ridiculous when a 9-0 team has to beat a 6-3 team it already beat to be "conference champs" and is a negative freeroll for the league in getting a team in the playoff.

It probably got you into the playoffs last year.  I could have seen them pushing for tOSU to replace you without it.

[Al_4_ISU 12,409]

17 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

No, it's fucking stupid and Oklahoma should be the conference champions for this season. It doesn't matter who is where in the standings, having a conference championship game after a full round robin is dumb and could only be created by the idiots in the Big 12 office who decided they needed to do it because they suck at publicizing all of these things:

1. Conference Strength - The Big 12 is once again the second best conference in the country but nobody knows that. https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
2. Schedule Design - The above set is based on a simple average but doesn't even account for the fact that the difference in conference schedules makes a Big 12 slate even more difficult relative to other conferences. Everybody plays everyone, so you don't completely miss matchups like the SEC in particular does. There are 45 possible matchups between the top 10 teams in any conference; based on the above ratings here is how many of those matchups took place in each conference: Big 12 - 45, Pac-12 - 36, Big 10 - 29, SEC - 28, ACC - 26. That is SEVENTEEN LOSSES that the SEC made disappear from their ten best teams' records.
3. Related to #2 above is that we don't play FCS week in November. This also leads to #4 below.
4. Calculated Schedule Difficulty - #2 and #3 are why this happens despite the SEC being better than the Big 12 this year: Average Sagarin SOS - Big 12 23.6, SEC 23.0. Essentially despite the SEC's average team being much better than the Big 12's average team this year, playing a Big 12 conference schedule was on average just as difficult as playing an SEC conference schedule. This is not a fluke, either, the Big 12 has had the toughest average schedule in years where the SEC was theoretically better.
5. We are the only conference that ALREADY guaranteed that our two best teams played in the regular season. It already happened, rematches are stupid. The end.

I'm sure there are more reasons but there you go. Along with the issue discussed above about the Big 12 administration having no fucking clue what the CFP committee is actually looking at and falling for bullshit.

Nobody knows what the CFP committee is actually looking at, in all fairness.

[TXSooner518 2,432]

Just now, Al_4_ISU said:

It probably got you into the playoffs last year.  I could have seen them pushing for tOSU to replace you without it.

No way they would have put an 11-2 tOSU over an 11-1 OU when OU won at tOSU AND tOSU lost another game by 4 touchdowns. No chance. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,409]

32 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

No way they would have put an 11-2 tOSU over an 11-1 OU when OU won at tOSU AND tOSU lost another game by 4 touchdowns. No chance. 

You have far more faith in the playoff committee than I do.

And this year it's 100% in your benefit if you win it.  I've long conceded the stupidity of this game, but the dipshitted committee forced this on the Big 12 by refusing to recognize the obvious.  The Big 12 has done a lot of regarded things, but I don't think keeping things the way they were was the right call.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Al_4_ISU

[HtownHorn 14,503]

If the CFP expands to 8 with the P5 auto's, I hope the Big 12 gets rid of it. Fuck stupid conferences that can't figure out who their champion is with 9 conference games.

Edited November 26, 2018 by HtownHorn

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,152]

Just surprised conference didn't decide to go with a "Best 2 out of 3 " since it would add to the stupidity of their choice

[Blanton 170]

A lot of people don’t remember 2008.

It’s a good idea and gives both teams a better push at the end of the season for a higher ranking. 

“It’s gonna fuck us over!”

We already got fucked over by the previous system, dumbass. 

[Fico 1,743]

A lot of people don’t remember 2008.
It’s a good idea and gives both teams a better push at the end of the season for a higher ranking. 
“It’s gonna fuck us over!”
We already got fucked over by the previous system, dumbass. 

Please explain 2008 to me and how it relates to the current system?

[gmr548 16,533]

No, it's fucking stupid and Oklahoma should be the conference champions for this season. It doesn't matter who is where in the standings, having a conference championship game after a full round robin is dumb and could only be created by the idiots in the Big 12 office who decided they needed to do it because they suck at publicizing all of these things:

1. Conference Strength - The Big 12 is once again the second best conference in the country but nobody knows that. https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
2. Schedule Design - The above set is based on a simple average but doesn't even account for the fact that the difference in conference schedules makes a Big 12 slate even more difficult relative to other conferences. Everybody plays everyone, so you don't completely miss matchups like the SEC in particular does. There are 45 possible matchups between the top 10 teams in any conference; based on the above ratings here is how many of those matchups took place in each conference: Big 12 - 45, Pac-12 - 36, Big 10 - 29, SEC - 28, ACC - 26. That is SEVENTEEN LOSSES that the SEC made disappear from their ten best teams' records.
3. Related to #2 above is that we don't play FCS week in November. This also leads to #4 below.
4. Calculated Schedule Difficulty - #2 and #3 are why this happens despite the SEC being better than the Big 12 this year: Average Sagarin SOS - Big 12 23.6, SEC 23.0. Essentially despite the SEC's average team being much better than the Big 12's average team this year, playing a Big 12 conference schedule was on average just as difficult as playing an SEC conference schedule. This is not a fluke, either, the Big 12 has had the toughest average schedule in years where the SEC was theoretically better.
5. We are the only conference that ALREADY guaranteed that our two best teams played in the regular season. It already happened, rematches are stupid. The end.

I'm sure there are more reasons but there you go. Along with the issue discussed above about the Big 12 administration having no fucking clue what the CFP committee is actually looking at and falling for bullshit.

Quoted for truth. The B12 is consistently a top three football conference and its round robin schedule, unique among P5 leagues, should be a selling point.

The conference strength and its schedule, which includes a P5 OOC game mandated for each team, means that a champion getting through it 11-1 or 12-0 did so with what ends up being seven or eight wins against top 40 teams and multiple top 25 wins. How many playoff teams are able to say that?

With competent leadership that should be a position of strength that doesn't fucking need a "13th data point." Unfortunately conference leadership is reactionary. Yes, TCU got robbed in 2014, but the conference handled it in the absolute worst way.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[TXSooner518 2,432]

19 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

You have far more faith in the playoff committee than I do.

And this year it's 100% in your benefit if you win it.  I've long conceded the stupidity of this game, but the dipshitted committee forced this on the Big 12 by refusing to recognize the obvious.  The Big 12 has done a lot of regarded things, but I don't think keeping things the way they were was the right call.

Ehhh, they do a generally OK, but obviously not great, job. Why would they have possibly put tOSU over OU last year, but somehow OU beating TCU (again) changed their minds in a way that OU beating their ass in the Shoe at night (and Iowa beating their ass again) did not?

[ousux 5,588]

No. Next question?


Edit- but I'm glad it does for this year, gives me one extra Longhorns game to get drunk and fret about, and I have tix and only a 25 minute drive from where I live. If there are dirtburglars sitting next to me I might not make it out of Jerryworld without the aid of handcuffs and civil servants, but yeah..

[Blanton 170]

Just now, Fico said:

 

Please explain 2008 to me and how it relates to the current system?

 

Big 12 North was pure garbage for most years and South champion was substantially better. Two teams with best records makes most sense, especially when considering Texas and OU have historically been head and shoulders above everybody else in the conference. 

I think it’s ridiculous to consider the conference championship being decided in October when I’d argue there were some years Texas was better than OU towards the end of regular season. I would have loved to get a second chance to play them for conference championship (and prestigious Bowl bid) than having to go to the god damn Alamo bowl or Holiday Bowl. 

Thats just my opinion after following the Big 12 and its structure. 

[BigOrange1 6,422]

i don't really think it's necessary, but i don't have a huge problem with it. 

i'm definitely excited for the game this weekend (and would be even if we were playing west virginia or anyone else).

[Fico 1,743]

Big 12 North was pure garbage for most years and South champion was substantially better. Two teams with best records makes most sense, especially when considering Texas and OU have historically been head and shoulders above everybody else in the conference. 
I think it’s ridiculous to consider the conference championship being decided in October when I’d argue there were some years Texas was better than OU towards the end of regular season. I would have loved to get a second chance to play them for conference championship (and prestigious Bowl bid) than having to go to the god damn Alamo bowl or Holiday Bowl. 
Thats just my opinion after following the Big 12 and its structure. 

A conference championship game is great when their are divisions in a conference, and you don’t play every team each year. The misfortune of 2008 was due to the conference having fucking retarded tie breaker rules, Tech was obviously the team who didn’t belong.

With a round robin schedule a CCG is fucking retarded, even if potentially helps us this year.

[Mr. Drummond 2,192]

Because everyone plays everyone, it is stupid.    The big 12 is stupid.

 

But it's OU that is getting screwed so HA.  But still stupid and wrong.

[hookem48 4,637]

1 hour ago, babysdaddy said:

it's great this year, it will suck next year and suck in the following years.  If I was OU I'd be pissed because they should have the Big 12 locked up and be headed to the playoffs.  Instead they have to play us again...the team they lost to. muhahahahahahaha.  TTLP

except they wouldn't be going because Ohio State would get an extra game while the whole nation is laughing at OU's defense. OU has to be thrilled they have a Championship Game.

[C-Man 27,083]

1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

I can’t think of anything our conference does that isn’t moronic.

 

That said, looking forward to seeing ou lose again and us winning the damn conference.

 

[C-Man 27,083]

10 minutes ago, Blanton said:

Big 12 North was pure garbage for most years and South champion was substantially better. Two teams with best records makes most sense, especially when considering Texas and OU have historically been head and shoulders above everybody else in the conference. 

Doesn't matter about perceived strength. You enter the season knowing you have to win your division to get in the conference title game. Period. Not to mention the Big 12 teams weren't all playing the same schedules when it came to cross-division games.

[Constant 6,722]

Just now, hookem48 said:

except they wouldn't be going because Ohio State would get an extra game while the whole nation is laughing at OU's defense. OU has to be thrilled they have a Championship Game.

This is my thinking. While it’s a gamble, it’s necessary. The committee is so reactionary that if OU were to be idle this week and Ohio State looks decent in a win, it’d be Ohio State going to the playoffs. 

Y’all may laugh at and cheer on that concept but it’s terrible for this conference. Especially considering the Big 10 sucks balls this year. 

[Texas Flood 1,356]

7 minutes ago, Fico said:

 

A conference championship game is great when their are divisions in a conference, and you don’t play every team each year. The misfortune of 2008 was due to the conference having fucking retarded tie breaker rules, Tech was obviously the team who didn’t belong.

With a round robin schedule a CCG is fucking retarded, even if potentially helps us this year.

 

100% this

[ButtFumble 5,161]

yes.....but it should exist with the Big 12 split in two divisions of 5 playing 7 conference games which would be amazing for the conference from top to bottom and especially at the bottom

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, ISU, WVU

OU, OkState, TCU, KSU, KU

fixed rivalry game with the teams above and below every year and then two other teams from the division and 5 OOC games

the Big 12 would be getting 8+ teams in bowl games every year most likely, the Big 12 would have more teams with 9+ wins (thus ending the year ranked and possibly starting the next year ranked, and the Big 12 would have about the same % chance of a rematch in the CCG as the other conferences

the advantage to the strength of schedule especially for the top teams would be massive as ell

this stupid shit of "everyone plays everyone" does not mean jack shit to anyone and is the dumbest branding campaign in history and needs to go in the toilet immediately

[gmr548 16,533]

Oklahoma was widely considered a shoe-in for the playoffs headed into CCG last year. It didn't move the needle for them at all. Ohio State in particular had no chance at getting in over them due to getting smoked in Columbus, but no two loss conference champion was going to bump them. They had wins over two top 15 teams in conference, beat four other bowl eligible teams in league play, and thoroughly beat a top ten team on the road OOC. 2017 OU is the poster child for this game being unnecessary.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Constant 6,722]

2 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Oklahoma was widely considered a shoe-in for the playoffs headed into CCG last year. It didn't move the needle for them at all. Ohio State in particular had no chance at getting in over them due to getting smoked in Columbus, but no two loss conference champion was going to bump them. They had wins over two top 15 teams in conference, beat four other bowl eligible teams in league play, and thoroughly beat a top ten team on the road OOC. 2017 OU is the poster child for this game being unnecessary.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

And 2018 is the poster child for this game being necessary. 

[relapse98 634]

1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

I don't understand why we couldn't just add an additional OOC game before starting conference play.

And play 13 regular season games? Because you aren't playing anyone in Alaska or Hawaii.

NCAA Rulebook 17.19.5.1

Quote

In bowl subdivision football, a member institution shall limit its total regular-season playing schedule with outside competition during the permissible football playing season in any one year to 12 contests (games or scrimmages)