The 2019 NBA Draft

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

 

 

 

"Zion isn't an all time great before he ever plays a game in the NBA." Bold statement, bro.

He's the closest thing to Lebron since Lebron, all the way down to the deficient jumper. If he never develops the moderate shooting touch that Lebron has, sure, he won't achieve greatness, but his floor is basically Blake Griffin.

 

Is it bolder than putting him in KD and Brows class since ones an mvp, finals mvp and the others one of the most efficient players in league history? All because they're freshman award winners?

 

 

And Lebrons made quite a career with out having consitant J. Oversized point guard who can facilitate an offense. Zion can play point forward but it feels like itll never impact like Lebron

 

 

Plus I'm quite sure Lebron is taller and faster than Zion

[SilasCoade 2622]

For the people doubting Zion, I'm curious which #1 picks of the last 20 years you think were more sure bets than him coming into the draft. I've got AD, Wall, Rose, and maybe Yao. Even LBJ was more questionable entering the draft straight from high school-level competition.

 

@MNLonghornFUKM, do you watch the NBA? https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2017/12/lebron_james_went_from_one_of.html If Lebron hadn't improved his jumper he'd have been a  more athletic Ben Simmons. Instead he's in the GOAT conversation.

Quote

Zion can play point forward but it feels like itll never impact like Lebron

what kind of logic is that? A huge guy who can demand double teams on the wing because of his ability to put the ball on the floor and who has demonstrated exceptional vision and passing ability will definitely have an impact. Single him up and he either backs down a smaller defender or blows by a bigger defender. Double him and he makes the right pass. Like I said, his floor is Blake Griffin. His ceiling is Lebron.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

 

 

 

For the people doubting Zion, I'm curious which #1 picks of the last 20 years you think were more sure bets than him coming into the draft. I've got AD, Wall, Rose, and maybe Yao. Even LBJ was more questionable entering the draft straight from high school-level competition.

 

[mention=37]MNLonghornFUKM[/mention], do you watch the NBA? https://www.cleveland.com/cavs/2017/12/lebron_james_went_from_one_of.html If Lebron hadn't improved his jumper he'd have been a  more athletic Ben Simmons. Instead he's in the GOAT conversation.

Zion can play point forward but it feels like itll never impact like Lebron

what kind of logic is that? A huge guy who can demand double teams on the wing because of his ability to put the ball on the floor and who has demonstrated exceptional vision and passing ability will definitely have an impact. Single him up and he either backs down a smaller defender or blows by a bigger defender. Double him and he makes the right pass. Like I said, his floor is Blake Griffin. His ceiling is Lebron.

 

Lebron doesnt go to 10 straight finals and winning 3 of them without having some sort of half court game. Nobody has as broke of a jumper than BS. BS doesnt even know if he's left or right handed.

 

 

Who the hell is going to double zion knowing he cant shoot from deep? Wait until he drives to collapse on him. He'll make the pass but is the teammate going to make every 3? Guard him like what Toronto did giannis..then what?

 

 

 

 

#1 overall picks? I'm gonna pretend oden didnt exist.

 

KD, Brow, Lebron. I'd maybe inter swap kat and zion since both have exceptional skills for big men...kats the much better shooter coming out of college while zions the better penetrator.

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18547]

1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

watch this video from 2:16 - 2:45 and then tell me again about how Zion bullied a bunch of small kids in the paint while in college:

 

edit: and again from 3:30 - 4:20:

 

 

Anybody questioning how Zion's game is going to translate to the NBA, just go to the 14 second mark where he takes about 17 steps before dunking on a breakaway.

The guy is going to be an animal. People that big aren't supposed to move like that and they especially aren't supposed to have the court vision, anticipation and bbiq that he has. His jumper is serviceable. It's better than Ben Simmons right now. And Simmons isn't comparable because he's going to play a completely different position. It's one thing to be a triggerless point guard, it's another to be a power forward who is likely going to command double teams after about one week in the league. 

Off the top of my head, the most comparable freakish players I have seen in the NBA that have the same combo of power, size, and agility as Zion are Lebron and Shaq, and throw in a second tier for Barkley and post-roided up Karl Malone.

[SilasCoade 2622]

LMMFAO at KAT being the better prospect than Zion coming into the draft. And, no, KD was not a #1 pick. You can't ignore history.

Lebron, year over year.

imgur

 

imgur

Lebron made big gains in his shooting % from 10ft + over his career.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

LMMFAO at KAT being the better prospect than Zion coming into the draft. And, no, KD was not a #1 pick. You can't ignore history.

Lebron, year over year.

imgur>

 

imgur>

Lebron made big gains in his shooting % from 10ft + over his career.

Kat was voted most to start a franchise with after his rookie year out of everyone in the nba.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sportingsota.com/2016/10/18/karl-anthony-towns-picked-franchise/amp/

 

LMMFAO. I think Kat was a better prospect than given credit for coming out.

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

nobody was calling KAT a transcendent player when he came out.

Many people who know their stuff are calling Zion transcendent.

you do the math, i'm doing the alfredo. 

[Burt Macklin 19020]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

 

 

 

 

what kind of logic is that? A huge guy who can demand double teams on the wing because of his ability to put the ball on the floor and who has demonstrated exceptional vision and passing ability will definitely have an impact. Single him up and he either backs down a smaller defender or blows by a bigger defender. Double him and he makes the right pass. Like I said, his floor is Blake Griffin. His ceiling is Lebron.

 

 

Lebron doesnt go to 10 straight finals and winning 3 of them without having some sort of half court game. Nobody has as broke of a jumper than BS. BS doesnt even know if he's left or right handed.

 

 

Who the hell is going to double zion knowing he cant shoot from deep? Wait until he drives to collapse on him. He'll make the pass but is the teammate going to make every 3? Guard him like what Toronto did giannis..then what?

 

 

 

 

#1 overall picks? I'm gonna pretend oden didnt exist.

 

KD, Brow, Lebron. I'd maybe inter swap kat and zion since both have exceptional skills for big men...kats the much better shooter coming out of college while zions the better penetrator.

 

WTF is even your point anymore? In terms of a prospect, Zion is up there with KD, AD, KAT, etc. Saying he’s the best prospect since LeBron is not the same as saying Zion will be better than KD or AD. KD especially, didn’t seem likely to be as good as he is now. Both he and AD have improved even more than expected since they joined the league. Whether or not Zion ends up better than those guys isn’t the same thing as discussing where they were as prospects compared to where Zion is as a prospect.

youre also massively underselling how developed Zion’s game is. He’s already shown he can operate in the half court. He’s above average to elite at almost everything else. Basically, his only weakness on either side of the ball is shooting and his shooting percentages aren’t even that bad. Obviously, shooting is a critical component, but it’s not like he’s a horrible shooter now and most guys do improve their shooting while they’re in the league. It’s not crazy to expect that he can develop into at least a league average shooter, and if he does that, he’ll be a perennial all-NBA guy and likely win MVP at least once.  

Putting him in the same echelon of prospects as guys like KD and AD isn’t some crazy statement.

[hobbes2702 13029]

Not only is he in the elite elite level of prospects with the likes of LeBron, AD, etc. but he also is perfectly suited to this modern game. PJ Tucker plays center for the Rockets for long stretches of the game. Zion has the skill set and size to be the best small ball center in the league. And that’s if he doesn’t develop almost at all. If he continues to develop his defensive game, ball handling and the jumper improves you’re looking at a transcendent star.

Whoever said his floor is Blake is basically spot on but he has the basketball IQ to be at a different level defensively 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

WTF is even your point anymore? In terms of a prospect, Zion is up there with KD, AD, KAT, etc. Saying he’s the best prospect since LeBron is not the same as saying Zion will be better than KD or AD. KD especially, didn’t seem likely to be as good as he is now. Both he and AD have improved even more than expected since they joined the league. Whether or not Zion ends up better than those guys isn’t the same thing as discussing where they were as prospects compared to where Zion is as a prospect.
youre also massively underselling how developed Zion’s game is. He’s already shown he can operate in the half court. He’s above average to elite at almost everything else. Basically, his only weakness on either side of the ball is shooting and his shooting percentages aren’t even that bad. Obviously, shooting is a critical component, but it’s not like he’s a horrible shooter now and most guys do improve their shooting while they’re in the league. It’s not crazy to expect that he can develop into at least a league average shooter, and if he does that, he’ll be a perennial all-NBA guy and likely win MVP at least once.  
Putting him in the same echelon of prospects as guys like KD and AD isn’t some crazy statement.

I agree. If zion develops a decent mid range face up game and extends it to behind the arc "respectable".. watch out.


It's still an IF. And hes a terrible ft shooter. Yea I dont remember what the hype or expectations of KD were. He was the top HS prospect. So was AD and zion. Weve never seen a guy like ADs wingspan and skill so hes transcendent


Kat wasnt the same level as brow but his rookie yr he showed a lot of promise. Still a top big despite defensive issues.



Ok now how are we thinking Zion does vs taller and athletic defenders who are much more athletic than your avg acc defender? I mean...do teams take the Giannis/ Toronto approach and pack it in?

Now what

[SilasCoade 2622]

How TF do you justify discounting acc competition while claiming Morant as the better pick? Troll alert

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

How TF do you justify discounting acc competition while claiming Morant as the better pick? Troll alert

Because it's easier to hit on guards than bigs?

[SilasCoade 2622]

Your logical inconsistencies and a priori claims are amazing.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Your logical inconsistencies and a priori claims are amazing.

Huh? I've been pretty damn consistant with what worries me about zion.

 

Sorry for not Lumping him with legends, hall of famers and all stars before hes played a second or has been even drafted

 

I've asked 5 times now if teams give zion the Giannis treatment from Toronto, how will NO adjust....nobody seems to have an answer

[Burt Macklin 19020]

27 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Huh? I've been pretty damn consistant with what worries me about zion.

 

Sorry for not Lumping him with legends, hall of famers and all stars before hes played a second or has been even drafted

 

I've asked 5 times now if teams give zion the Giannis treatment from Toronto, how will NO adjust....nobody seems to have an answer

First off, if teams have to commit their entire defensive game plan to packing the paint and stopping Him, then it means Zion is already a really good, impactful player right away. Second, his jumper will develop. Your base assumption that he’ll always be a poor shooter is ridiculous. Finally, Zion’s already a very good passer. If teams show him that much attention, he’ll be able to get it to an open man. 

Your whole point that Zion won’t know what to do when he gets the Giannis treatment is ridiculous. It takes a lot of good players years to figure out how to deal with that, so him not having an immediate answer for that kind of attention is meaningless when talking about what level of prospect he is.

You seem to not understand what the word prospect means. It doesn’t mean he’s a finished product, just like KD, AD, KAT, etc. weren’t finished products and had huge holes in their games when they came out of college.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Burt Macklin

[SilasCoade 2622]

1. Consistent, you buffoon.

2. Level of competition only matters when it impacts your argument positively. Although one could argue that the ACC represents the best minor league talent in the country so I'm not sure it even supports your argument the way you think it does.

3. Guards are easier to hit on than bigs. Based on ... ? If you are willing to acknowledge that size follows a normal distribution and that NBA prospects already exist at the far right of the curve, you should understand that the number of very large humans represents a tiny pool of talent. If you also recognize that generally speaking larger humans are less agile than smaller ones then you should expect that smaller humans will be more likely to excel at a game of agility like basketball. Now if you recognize that the pool of very large humans with exceptional agility is going to be vanishingly small while also recognizing that such individuals provide significant advantages to an NBA team, you should understand that teams are more willing to gamble on bigs than they are on smaller players. Market dynamics. This does not mean that exceptional bigs are harder to evaluate. It just means that they are more valuable when they do hit so teams take bigger risks. In this case the evaluation is easy, and your assumption that he is a riskier take because he is a big man is faulty reasoning. That teams take risks for big men does not mean that every highly drafted big man is a risk.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Llogg

[Goo Punch 4275]

6 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

You seem to not understand what the word prospect means. It doesn’t mean he’s a finished prospect, just like KD, AD, KAT, etc. weren’t finished products and had huge holes in their games when they came out of college.

And none of those guys were close to as physically ready as he is, nor were any of them remotely as athletic. So he's already ahead of them in that department. 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

He gonna be good as long as he stays healthy.  All that weight with how he plays, at some point he's gonna tear something.  

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

First off, if teams have to commit their entire defensive game plan to packing the paint and stopping Him, then it means Zion is already a really good, impactful player right away. Second, his jumper will develop. Your base assumption that he’ll always be a poor shooter is ridiculous. Finally, Zion’s already a very good passer. If teams show him that much attention, he’ll be able to get it to an open man. 
Your whole point that Zion won’t know what to do when he gets the Giannis treatment is ridiculous. It takes a lot of good players years to figure out how to deal with that, so him not having an immediate answer for that kind of attention is meaningless when talking about what level of prospect he is.
You seem to not understand what the word prospect means. It doesn’t mean he’s a finished prospect, just like KD, AD, KAT, etc. weren’t finished products and had huge holes in their games when they came out of college.

Ridiculous? I'm afraid he has a long way to go than just "his jumper will develop ". Such a lazy fucking take. And yes hell be impactful. Teams will live with ersan ilyasovas and Danny greenesque players making 3s vs giving zion lay ups and dunks.

[ztejas 43412]

6 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

And none of those guys were close to as physically ready as he is, nor were any of them remotely as athletic. So he's already ahead of them in that department. 

Davis and KD weren't remotely as athletic as Zion? C'mon man. I know Zion is a freak and the best athlete of those 3 but Durant and Davis are freaks too. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

1. Consistent, you buffoon.

2. Level of competition only matters when it impacts your argument positively. Although one could argue that the ACC represents the best minor league talent in the country so I'm not sure it even supports your argument the way you think it does.

3. Guards are easier to hit on than bigs. Based on ... ? If you are willing to acknowledge that size follows a normal distribution and that NBA prospects already exist at the far right of the curve, you should understand that the number of very large humans represents a tiny pool of talent. If you also recognize that generally speaking larger humans are less agile than smaller ones then you should expect that smaller humans will be more likely to excel at a game of agility like basketball. Now if you recognize that the pool of very large humans with exceptional agility is going to be vanishingly small while also recognizing that such individuals provide significant advantages to an NBA team, you should understand that teams are more willing to gamble on bigs than they are on smaller players. Market dynamics. This does not mean that exceptional bigs are harder to evaluate. It just means that they are more valuable when they do hit so teams take bigger risks. In this case the evaluation is easy, and your assumption that he is a riskier take because he is a big man is faulty reasoning. That teams take risks for big men does not mean that every highly drafted big man is a risk.

My argument is ACC and college players(I'm sorry but if Stetson college is on the highlight reel...I get to use them as level of competition). Vs NBA all world athletes. The fuck do you need this spelled out for?

 

Morants level of comp isnt close to zions. Hes also a PG which is easier to grade vs a big like Zion.

 

If we all knew how every big would grade out...there wouldnt be thabeets, kvamme browns, eddy curry's and anthony bennetts to label as enormous busts.

 

[ChickenSandwich 9829]

3 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Anybody questioning how Zion's game is going to translate to the NBA, just go to the 14 second mark where he takes about 17 steps before dunking on a breakaway.

The guy is going to be an animal. People that big aren't supposed to move like that and they especially aren't supposed to have the court vision, anticipation and bbiq that he has. His jumper is serviceable. It's better than Ben Simmons right now. And Simmons isn't comparable because he's going to play a completely different position. It's one thing to be a triggerless point guard, it's another to be a power forward who is likely going to command double teams after about one week in the league. 

Off the top of my head, the most comparable freakish players I have seen in the NBA that have the same combo of power, size, and agility as Zion are Lebron and Shaq, and throw in a second tier for Barkley and post-roided up Karl Malone.

He reminds me more of a super-sized beef roid version of Russel Westbrook.  Good clip

[hobbes2702 13029]

23 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Davis and KD weren't remotely as athletic as Zion? C'mon man. I know Zion is a freak and the best athlete of those 3 but Durant and Davis are freaks too. 

KD wasn’t and isn’t currently on the same level as Zion athletically.

[Goo Punch 4275]

33 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Davis and KD weren't remotely as athletic as Zion? C'mon man. I know Zion is a freak and the best athlete of those 3 but Durant and Davis are freaks too. 

both guys were rail thin, far weaker physically, much slower, and neither could approach his vertical leap, and i suspect the same goes for any lateral quickness as well. those guys were freakish players, but average as athletes. Zion is in a class by himself as an athlete.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Goo Punch

[ztejas 43412]

25 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

KD wasn’t and isn’t currently on the same level as Zion athletically.

Okay? No one is arguing that. 

17 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

both guys were rail thin, far weaker physically, much slower, and neither could approach his vertical leap, and i suspect the same goes for any lateral quickness as well. those guys were freakish players, but average as athletes. Zion is in a class by himself as an athlete.

I might let Durant go even though he was not "much slower" than Zion, especially with the ball in his hands. 

As far as AD I feel like you're straight up misremembering things. Davis didn't have the same vertical but he was no doubt quicker on the defensive side of the ball - especially if you're talking lateral quickness. 

 

[hobbes2702 13029]

13 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Okay? No one is arguing that. 

I might let Durant go even though he was not "much slower" than Zion, especially with the ball in his hands. 

As far as AD I feel like you're straight up misremembering things. Davis didn't have the same vertical but he was no doubt quicker on the defensive side of the ball - especially if you're talking lateral quickness. 

 

You just argued that. Zion is an entirely different class to KD.

[ztejas 43412]

7 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

You just argued that. Zion is an entirely different class to KD.

No, I argued against there not being any comparison to be made. I'm not mentally retarded, I am well aware that Zion is more athletic than Durant. I might even concede that he is in a different class, but it depends on what aspects of their game you are looking at. 

I am not going to agree that Davis at 18 was not remotely as athletic as Zion. I think that's silly. 

[hobbes2702 13029]

There’s no comparison to be made between the athleticism of KD in college or currently and the athleticism of Zion. None whatsoever.

[Blotto 23491]

Stumbled across this site and this seemed like as good a thread as any to post it. They take the top 100 HS players from 1998-2013 and track how far they make it. Lot of cool data visualizations and names from the past. Towards the end, there is a comparison of colleges by players in the NBA, and how successful those players were. 

https://pudding.cool/2019/03/hype/

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

6 minutes ago, Blotto said:

Stumbled across this site and this seemed like as good a thread as any to post it. They take the top 100 HS players from 1998-2013 and track how far they make it. Lot of cool data visualizations and names from the past. Towards the end, there is a comparison of colleges by players in the NBA, and how successful those players were. 

https://pudding.cool/2019/03/hype/

 

Wheres Kevin Garnett?

[Blotto 23491]

3 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Wheres Kevin Garnett?

They take the top 100 HS players from 1998-2013 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

1 minute ago, Blotto said:

They take the top 100 HS players from 1998-2013 

im the asshole 

[Aldo Raine 122]

He gonna be good as long as he stays healthy.  All that weight with how he plays, at some point he's gonna tear something.  

100% agree. Hopefully we’re wrong and he picks the right shoes.

[BradInATX 9208]

On 5/31/2019 at 2:04 PM, dingleberryswitzer said:

He gonna be good as long as he stays healthy.  All that weight with how he plays, at some point he's gonna tear something.  

This is really my only concern with him.

I have no doubt he's going to be a star if healthy. I'll leave the debate about what skills translate, etc. But what I know is that he's got that "it" factor and drive, the fire and the motivation to get better. It's a bit of ego and a bit of determination, but we all know what that "it" is. Kobe had it, Jordan had it, etc. Whatever that is, Zion has it. I'm not saying he's going to be Jordan or Kobe, but I have no doubt that he'll tirelessly work on his game to make it whatever it needs to be to dominate the NBA.

Some of these freak athletes come into the NBA and coast a bit knowing they can play at an all-star level on athleticism alone, while never making that leap to transcendental player. Joel Embiid is/will be a good example of that (and I like Embiid). Zion won't do that.

He's going to be a good one.

Edited June 3, 2019 by BradInATX

[d2o 1602]

On 5/31/2019 at 3:04 PM, dingleberryswitzer said:

He gonna be good as long as he stays healthy.  All that weight with how he plays, at some point he's gonna tear something.  

This is my point.    We've never seen some that big be that explosive.    At some point, anatomy may catch up with him.   Along with the fact that he seemed winded (out of shape) late in many games.      Like I also said previously, that part may clear up with a NBA level conditioning team and personal chef making sure he stays on track but for the physical specimen that he is, he isn't defined at all.   That could mean the conditioning team at Duke is shit or it could mean he doesn't work hard in the gym.   It could mean he is a college kid eating shitty food like college kids do or it could mean he likes to eat a lot.  We will see which is true.

Obviously, he needs to work on his game too but I'm not too worried about most of that.   The natural progression of players is to be more athletic than skilled at 18-19.

[Machinator 32099]

 

[VirginiaLonghorn 4769]

Talking heads on the DC network that carries les Boullez say Hayes is now a likely choice at 9. “He can learn the position by playing behind Dwight Howard.”

🤔 

He screwed ...

[Goo Punch 4275]

 

 

 

[Machinator 32099]

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

[Rockethorn1978 6072]

Hahaha welcome to the NBA Goga.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Rockethorn1978

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

as they should. 

[Patrick Bateman 3911]

 

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

3 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

NO has a great opportunity to hit a lick here. Everyone knows who the top three will be, so all it takes is one team to be in love with one remaining player from the field, and something tells me multiple organizations will be in love with someone like a Darius Garland for example to offer a great deal to move up and get their man. 

Of course NO could just as easily take him themselves and still hit a lick. Of all of the player comps being thrown around in this draft, taking the guy who keeps being compared to Damian Lillard sounds like a good move to me. 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

here's my usual qualifier about how i do not follow this stuff *at all*, so pardon my stupid question: is there any scenario in which the Sixers can draft Tyler Herro?

[LTtxfan 49145]

20 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

here's my usual qualifier about how i do not follow this stuff *at all*, so pardon my stupid question: is there any scenario in which the Sixers can draft Tyler Herro?

Celtics at #14 or #20

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-draft-2019-rumors-celtics-have-serious-interest-kentucky-tyler-herro/16b46qrjhat9k1m1rlzn295htm  

The Miami Heat will be looking to add an impact player with the 13th pick of the 2019 NBA draft.  Enter Tyler Herro, who spent his only collegiate season playing for John Calipari at Kentucky. While starting all 37 games as a freshman, Herro averaged 14 points points per game.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hard for Philly to move up from #24 pick....

Article on Philly Draft

https://www.nj.com/sixers/2019/06/nba-draft-2019-philadelphia-76ers-will-pick-1-of-these-15-players-with-no-24-pick-in-1st-round.html

Edited June 20, 2019 by LTtxfan

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

NO has a great opportunity to hit a lick here. Everyone knows who the top three will be, so all it takes is one team to be in love with one remaining player from the field, and something tells me multiple organizations will be in love with someone like a Darius Garland for example to offer a great deal to move up and get their man. 
Of course NO could just as easily take him themselves and still hit a lick. Of all of the player comps being thrown around in this draft, taking the guy who keeps being compared to Damian Lillard sounds like a good move to me. 

Sucks we only saw 5 games of him

[Machinator 32099]