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Federal District Court Rules That National Retailers Can Sell Liquor

Mack Tripper

By Mack Tripper
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Jerry Callo

Jerry Callo 8,727

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The association’s executive director, Lance Lively, said the group was disappointed at Pitman’s ruling, saying it would “overturn decades of Texas law regulating the sale of liquor in Texas.” The Texas Package Stores Association represents liquor store owners in the state. 

“We will appeal the trial court’s decision and continue to fight for family-owned liquor store owners against the world’s largest corporate entities that seek to inflate their profits by upending sensible state laws that protect both consumers and small businesses,” Lively said.

 

I can't think of a single way the current law protect consumers and generally don't support governmental regulations design to protect people from themselves.  The TPSA only cares about keeping their market share and the legislature has no business protecting these businesses from competition. 

I heard Margaret Jabour bitch and complain about how this change would kill their business (Twin Liquors).  When called out by other small business owner who has to compete with Wal-Mart, other than explaining how it would hurt their profits, she couldn't express any good reason for resisting the change. 

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woohorn

woohorn 1,131

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47 minutes ago, solamente73 said:

So, how would local laws impact the decision in the OP?  For example, would dry/damp cities in the Metroplex have to allow Costco and Walmart to sell liquor inside their city limits?

I haven't read shit, but...

All the court said (I believe) is that the requirement that liquor stores be owned by Texas corporations is unconstitutional.

It wouldn't affect dick locally.

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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

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18 hours ago, Mack Tripper said:

Sorry but I don’t believe this. And even assuming for the sake of argument it is true, those stores are free to stay closed on Sundays to their hearts’ content, while other stores are open for business.  But to have a statewide law prohibiting all stores from selling alcohol on Sundays, whether they want to or not, is just silly and archaic and anticompetitive and discriminatory in the sense that most other states do not have such arbitrary restrictions. Why shouldn’t someone in a supposedly free market be able to sell their goods when they want to? 

Even if being open Sundays did not result in an overall increase in liquor sales, some Monday-Saturday sales would shift to Sunday, so any store that closes Sunday would lose revenue to those that don't.

I'd prefer liquor stores (and car dealerships) be allowed to be open whenever they want because it hurts consumers but the industries want those laws as they are basically legalized collusion to keep down overhead.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54,429

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Posted (edited)
On 3/27/2018 at 4:55 PM, Bevo VIII said:

The church crowd in Texas would never go for the Sunday part though, realistically.

Lol, no.

 

Q: Why do you always take two Baptists fishing with you?

 

A: Because if you take only one, he'll drink all your beer.

Edited by Beau Vine
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CrownKing

CrownKing 55

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On 3/27/2018 at 3:28 PM, kevwun said:

Costco's way around it is that the liquor store has a separate entrance.  It's dumb since it's right next door and part of the same building, but it gets around the law.

Costco just rents the place to Western Beverages. Can't buy Kirkland booze there. 

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8,077

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20 hours ago, Mack Tripper said:

On a related note, with the traffic they get on Sundays, Costco would be making well above incremental sales. I imagine the same would hold true for the others like Target, Sam’s, and Walmat. And liquor is heavily taxed with that additional revenue going to the state. There’s no legitimate reason for prohibiting stores from selling liquor on Sundays. If they want to stay closed, so be it. 

The only stores that would want sales 7 days a week are the ones that are already open 7 days a week.  The additional overhead of opening the stores the 7th day does not drive more sales, just makes the sales volume they already have spread out over 7 days instead of 6 so it cuts into margin.  The same is true for Car dealerships.  Opening another day a week does not sell more cars, just spreads the same number of sales out.

The big retailers like Walmart would want the 7 day sales because they are already open 7 days a week and the burden of roping or fencing off part of the store at certain times (I remember beer sales in Texas back in the 70-80s) would be a hassle.

 

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Macanudo

Macanudo 13,012

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1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

The only stores that would want sales 7 days a week are the ones that are already open 7 days a week.  The additional overhead of opening the stores the 7th day does not drive more sales, just makes the sales volume they already have spread out over 7 days instead of 6 so it cuts into margin.  The same is true for Car dealerships.  Opening another day a week does not sell more cars, just spreads the same number of sales out.

The big retailers like Walmart would want the 7 day sales because they are already open 7 days a week and the burden of roping or fencing off part of the store at certain times (I remember beer sales in Texas back in the 70-80s) would be a hassle.

 

I just don't agree with this line of thinking.   I know that myself, as a consumer, doesn't do my liquor shopping on a week day at noon or 3:00 pm.   But there have been many times when I think to myself on a Sunday that I'd like to grab a bottle of booze.   But I fucking can't because my local liquor store is closed.   And guess what I most often do....   I wait until Saturday because I have a full time job M-F and don't think about it until then again.   

 

So Sunday liquor sales would fucking rule.

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ZanTheFan

ZanTheFan 49

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Posted (edited)

Not a business major, I must admit. But how come you get to assume that being open an extra 52 days would keep sales static?

I can't be the only person who has ever driven by a chic fil a on a Sunday wishing they were open .....and subsequently not thought of them again even once during the routine of my week!

Again I didn't study business but it seems like chic fil a would increase revenue by more being open on Sundays..... How come a liquor store wouldn't?

2 hours ago, TexasEd said:

The only stores that would want sales 7 days a week are the ones that are already open 7 days a week.  The additional overhead of opening the stores the 7th day does not drive more sales, just makes the sales volume they already have spread out over 7 days instead of 6 so it cuts into margin.  The same is true for Car dealerships.  Opening another day a week does not sell more cars, just spreads the same number of sales out.

The big retailers like Walmart would want the 7 day sales because they are already open 7 days a week and the burden of roping or fencing off part of the store at certain times (I remember beer sales in Texas back in the 70-80s) would be a hassle.

 

 

Edited by ZanTheFan
Spelling shit wrong
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ZanTheFan

ZanTheFan 49

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50 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

I just don't agree with this line of thinking.   I know that myself, as a consumer, doesn't do my liquor shopping on a week day at noon or 3:00 pm.   But there have been many times when I think to myself on a Sunday that I'd like to grab a bottle of booze.   But I fucking can't because my local liquor store is closed.   And guess what I most often do....   I wait until Saturday because I have a full time job M-F and don't think about it until then again.   

 

So Sunday liquor sales would fucking rule.

I'm with ya Mac. Man connecticut had (has?) the fucking worst laws. They can't sell alcohol on HOLIDAYS. 

So you're having a cookout on Memorial Day and you run out of beer? Well guess what you can do? You can go fuck yourself bc the grocery store can't sell you anything to keep the party going

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8,077

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1 hour ago, ZanTheFan said:

Not a business major, I must admit. But how come you get to assume that being open an extra 52 days would keep sales static?

I can't be the only person who has ever driven by a chic fil a on a Sunday wishing they were open .....and subsequently not thought of them again even once during the routine of my week!

Again I didn't study business but it seems like chic fil a would increase revenue by more being open on Sundays..... How come a liquor store wouldn't?

 

Well you can eat a chic fil a every day and you don't usually save the leftover for the next day (perishable item plus elastic demand).  Most people don't go through a bottle a day (Lehmberg) and if they do they might buy multiple bottles and put one on the shelf (static demand and non-perishable good).  Being open an additional day will not increase sales 17% over the year but guessing maybe 5% which would be offset by the additional labor and other variable costs associated with the extra day.  

For those business that can legislate days everyone is closed where there demand is fairly static they have a built in advantage for keeping their margins up.  Take away the day off and they can choose to stay closed but will then lose sales and be forced to open.

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elfenix

elfenix 34,332

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 As others have stated anyone can walk-in no Costco Membership needed.

due to laws that tried to prohibit speakeasies, stores cannot require private club membership to buy alcohol.  so you can buy it from the main club store, not just the attached but separate liquor store, without a membership. 

 

1 hour ago, ZanTheFan said:

Not a business major, I must admit. But how come you get to assume that being open an extra 52 days would keep sales static?

I can't be the only person who has ever driven by a chic fil a on a Sunday wishing they were open .....and subsequently not thought of them again even once during the routine of my week!

Again I didn't study business but it seems like chic fil a would increase revenue by more being open on Sundays..... How come a liquor store wouldn't?

 

most people plan ahead well enough that they're stocked on sunday and don't need to hit up the liquor store. and liquor stores are selling a product that doesn't immediately start to degrade upon service like chick-fil-a does.  so, while maybe they'll lose a small fraction of sales, it's no where near the savings by not being open that 7th day every week.  car dealers don't want to be open 7 days a week on the same principal. 

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TTU13

TTU13 108

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Correct. You currently can't buy Kirkland branded products at the ones in Texas. As others have stated anyone can walk-in no Costco Membership needed.


The Kirkland branded scotch and whiskey are by far the best bang for the buck. Please please let them sell that shit down here.

I always pick up a couple of bottles when I'm up north.
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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27,602

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http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2018/03/28/texas-agency-overrides-judge-due-to-outdated-alcohol-rules/

 

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The state’s alcoholic beverage commission approved Core-Mark’s application but rejected McLane Company’s. The reasoning was that Nebraska billionaire Warren Buffett’s company, Berkshire Hathaway, owned McLane Company as well as a 2 percent interest in Walmart, a retailer that sells alcohol in Texas.

Berkshire’s stake in both companies appeared to violate the cross-tier rules.

McLane then pushed back against Core-Mark’s application, noting that the publicly traded company was owned by large investors who had stakes in companies with permits to sell or manufacture alcohol in Texas, including Nordstrom’s, Bed, Bath and Beyond, and Molson Coors Brewing Co.

The issue shows how drawing boundaries has become increasingly difficult as corporate structures grow more sophisticated.

The judge’s advisory decision would have resulted in “no legal alcoholic beverage industry in Texas,” said Matthew Chaplin, the commission’s deputy executive director.

 

Maybe it is 1o4 but that sounds like a bunch of BS that don't make no sense

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Redneck Mutha

Redneck Mutha 8,007

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7 hours ago, TexasEd said:

Well you can eat a chic fil a every day and you don't usually save the leftover for the next day (perishable item plus elastic demand).  Most people don't go through a bottle a day (Lehmberg) and if they do they might buy multiple bottles and put one on the shelf (static demand and non-perishable good).  Being open an additional day will not increase sales 17% over the year but guessing maybe 5% which would be offset by the additional labor and other variable costs associated with the extra day.  

This is correct.  Overall liquor sales (and therefore consumption) is not going to magically increase an additional 17% if stores are open on Sunday.  Today, if I miss the 9PM cutoff or forget about Sunday/holiday store closures, I'm still drinking liquor, it's just something that I already had in my liquor cabinet.  

 

All of that said,  the current laws are stupid, fuck over consumers, and need to be changed.  Let the market figure it out.  If Spec's, Twin's, Target, Sam's, whoever wants to not sell on Sunday or after 9PM or before 7AM, that should be their choice.  And if I want to open the only store in town that sells 24/7, then that should be my choice to do so.

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ZanTheFan

ZanTheFan 49

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Posted
Well you can eat a chic fil a every day and you don't usually save the leftover for the next day (perishable item plus elastic demand).  Most people don't go through a bottle a day (Lehmberg) and if they do they might buy multiple bottles and put one on the shelf (static demand and non-perishable good).  Being open an additional day will not increase sales 17% over the year but guessing maybe 5% which would be offset by the additional labor and other variable costs associated with the extra day.  
For those business that can legislate days everyone is closed where there demand is fairly static they have a built in advantage for keeping their margins up.  Take away the day off and they can choose to stay closed but will then lose sales and be forced to open.
Got it thank you!

Despite that, which I don't argue, it still seems like something the market should be able to weigh in on
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TexasEd

TexasEd 8,077

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18 hours ago, huge said:

How about we let stores figure this shit out on their own?

That's part of the reason the laws are this way for Liquor and Car sales.  The stores lobby to keep them that way.  Barriers to entry and market advantages legislated into the marketplace.

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Mac8111

Mac8111 2,116

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Met with a chain headquarters today.  Their opinion:

The decision will be appealed to the 5th circuit and who knows from there.  They think it will go in their favor and then be appealed higher.  It will be a while before we see any real change

Sunday sales will eventually happen.   May take several years , but it will eventually happen. They aren't really pushing it, but if the competition is going to do it, they will have to as well.  They have already experienced this in other states and their in sales increase for the week now that they can sell on Sunday was minimal.  5% or so. Really hurt Monday sales.  Probably would benefit those accounts in high trafficked Sunday areas more than the stand alone mom and pop liquor store.  Would also help restore some order in those years where Xmas Eve and NYE are on Sunday (like this last year). 

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RPM

RPM 26,354

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On 3/27/2018 at 4:36 PM, ToY said:

Because each family member can "own" 5 stores or something like that.  They're definitely exploiting a loophole so they have no room to complain at this.

It's a corporation. Centennial had 38 stores when I worked there and every one was owned by the main office.

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PatrickMcHorn

PatrickMcHorn 376

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Hopefully, this is the first step towards getting rid of the Sunday prohibition.  The Texas Package Stores Association has always argued that even if stores could open on Sundays, they would prefer to stay closed because paying employees for an extra work day is more than what the sales would be.  Costco, Walmart, Target, etc. aren't going to be this lazy. 
1234.

My other thought is that it would be interesting to see, assuming walmart and others do eventually start selling, what liquor will take the place of. I'd imagine that the margins are really high on liquor. What do they currently sell that gets the axe for liquor to take over the most amount of space?
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PatrickMcHorn

PatrickMcHorn 376

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Not going to quote all the different post, but here are my comments to those things mentioned above:
 
Sunday selling - Most liquor stores do not want to open on Sunday because it is not worth the overhead.  Its not like people are going to starting drinking a bunch more liquor because they can buy it on Sunday.  You have already been trained to stock up.  The only incremental sales would be half pints being sold to the bums.  (No offense to some of you)

Texas will remain a three tier system, so Glazers and Republic will still have their level of involvement.  There are no warehouse options for chains like there is in FL or CA. 
 
As already stated, the Costco liquor stores in Texas are not owned by Costco.  
 
The little neighborhood liquor stores would be devastated.  It would be very interesting to see what HEB does with all those shopping centers with Twin Liquors sitting in them.  I know for a fact that HEB isn't pushing for the law to change, but they also know they can't afford to be the last major retailer to make the move if the law does change. 
 
 
 
I wonder what heb would do too.
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4th_and_18

4th_and_18 687

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Because each family member can "own" 5 stores or something like that.  They're definitely exploiting a loophole so they have no room to complain at this.

I believe the judge ruled that part of the law unconstitutional because of equal protection. Corporations can’t have family members and can’t qualify for an exception.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Bernard

Bernard 879

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Contrary to many posts above...

This isn’t about letting Walmart and Costco sell booze in their existing stores. This is about letting them (or any other publicly traded company) own liquor stores. Nothing in this ruling, assuming it stands up to appeal, changes the fact that liquor will still be sold in exclusively in liquor stores on prescribed days and hours. Walmart and Costco and now open liquor stores. They can also acquire existing liquor stores. 

Bernard

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Landomatic

Landomatic 3,813

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50 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Good. Most liquor laws are archaic 

Boy that’s no shit.  Yet a lot of dumbass people still support them.  Same people who think hiring Art Briles to lead a high school athletic department is okay because he’s a “Christian man”

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