The Italy Thread

[texasdago 7576]

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Well I'm biased because I always try to fit hiking and mountains into every trip I take, so I would go for Option 2(b). 

If you go that route, definitely get over to Val Gardena if you haven't been before, though it sounds like you have.  I'm heading back there (Ortisei) in June for the second time.  I loved being deep in the mountains and the culture is a really interesting mix of Italian, Austrian, and German.  Can't go wrong with Lake Garda either though.  

I love Val Gardena... learned to ski there when I was five years old... went back a few years after we moved to the US for a week of skiing and then again in 2014.  We've always based ourselves out of Selva but Ortisei is a beautiful town.  Definitely more to do there as Selva is a bit quieter although I love how Selva makes it easy to take a lift up and over into Alta Badia.  Riva is great because you can be on the lake and then its not too hard to head deeper into the mountains.  Last time we stayed there we went to Lago di Tenno and on another day headed to Molveno and went up the mountain for some hiking before then making a loop from the north to hit a couple of wineries.  So many options.

MXP to Selva is 4 1/2 hours... that's a drive fresh for a transatlantic trip.  We could do Bormio (3 hours) and then see if I can finnagle a visit to Stelvio Pass for a day of summer skiing

 

[GopherRock 1765]

Any issues with getting around Italy with just your vaccine cards in lieu of the Green Pass? Our family is going in January and we have been trying to figure out how all of that works. Also, it looks like they're automatically testing everyone as they're leaving the airport now.

[Mo Horn 8853]

44 minutes ago, GopherRock said:

Any issues with getting around Italy with just your vaccine cards in lieu of the Green Pass? Our family is going in January and we have been trying to figure out how all of that works. Also, it looks like they're automatically testing everyone as they're leaving the airport now.

When we were there in September, we just showed our card and we were good. I'm guessing nothing has changed. 

[Biff Tannen 45697]

1 hour ago, Mo Horn said:

When we were there in September, we just showed our card and we were good. I'm guessing nothing has changed. 

I heard they have locked down quite a bit in the past few weeks with Omicron.

[Mo Horn 8853]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I heard they have locked down quite a bit in the past few weeks with Omicron.

I did too, but as far as needing the green pass vs. just showing your vaccination card, I don't think that's changed. I know some countries and making you register your card, but I haven't heard that Italy is. 

[bonnieblue 542]

On 9/17/2021 at 3:01 PM, sidis said:

a bit more different than i think you would expect.  the hike from monterosso to riomaggiore (it looks like mo horn did at least the hike from monterosso to vernazza in the above pics) is my second favorite hike outside of the kalalau trail along the napali coast in kauai.  it is such a great way to spend a day, stopping in each town.

amalfi is a bit glitzier, luxurious with places like capri and positano.  ct is a bit more..."natural?"  i don't know the right word honestly...(maybe more provincial?) but just a bit more down to earth.  not associating a preference for one over the other.  both have too many people obviously and both are quite beautiful.  but there is a more of a different feel to the two of them than one would expect imo.

Was just browsing this thread for trip planning ideas (16 days in May) and saw this. After your great advice on the Kalalau, I had to pay attention. Worth diving into on this trip? Any tips/suggestions?

[Biff Tannen 45697]

5 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

Was just browsing this thread for trip planning ideas (16 days in May) and saw this. After your great advice on the Kalalau, I had to pay attention. Worth diving into on this trip? Any tips/suggestions?

I've also done Monterosso to Vernazza.  It's a pretty hike, but nowhere near the difficulty level of Kalalau.  The full trail between all the towns seems to be under maintenance a lot, so be prepared to adjust.  Are you going to have a car?  If so, I would recommend perhaps staying in Porto Venere instead of one of the actual Cinque Terre towns.  Driving to the towns is a bit of a chore.  I'm sure others can expand on/refute this though.

Here's a couple photos from the trail.

 

Looking back at Monterosso

 

Looking down on Vernazza

 

Trail sign

 

 

Rocky beach in Vernazza

[South Austin 52546]

Great pics, Biff. 

We set up camp for three days in Manarola in 2014, and did the Manorola-to-Vernazza hike, with a stop in Corniglia for a bite.  We had a car after driving from the Piedmont, but kept it parked in Manarola the whole time and just took the train to visit the various towns in CT.  Otherwise, yeah, it would be a bitch to drive around that area for just  day trips.

[Mo Horn 8853]

Cinque Terre is one of my favorite places on earth, so I'm always a proponent of visiting there. Some trails are permanently closed. And take the train, and forget about a car. I was just there in September, so let me know if I can help any. 

[sidis 9832]

2 hours ago, bonnieblue said:

Was just browsing this thread for trip planning ideas (16 days in May) and saw this. After your great advice on the Kalalau, I had to pay attention. Worth diving into on this trip? Any tips/suggestions?

cinque terre is beautiful and definitely worth a stay over.  i was last there in 2011 prior to the big landslides later that year so the world has changed a bit on hiking around there.  when i was there, we hiked all the way from monterosso to riomaggiore and apparently, that's not possible anymore.  even if it was, to be clear, it is not near the same thing as kalalau in terms of difficult and "adventure."  it is a pretty full day for sure...and it is beautiful, but it is not quite the same thing.  we started in monterosso and stopped in each town to eat something and then kept going.  the segment from manarola to riomaggiore was paved for most of the way but the rest of the hike was pretty legit.  

however, after the mudslides, i know they changed things and the preceding posts that are far more contemporaneous than my experience confirm that.  looks like you can really only do from monterosso to corniglia now without train or bushwhacking.  so if you're going for the hiking, there are plenty of other great places in italy instead...particularly up in the dolomites. tre cime di lavaredo...or if you are up for another adventure, the alta via 1 in the dolomites is intense.  trails around corno grande in the gran sasso park in abruzzo are a hidden treasure and will be a lot less busy.  there are trails everywhere around lake garda that are incredible.  the amalfi coast has quite a few stunning hikes (path of the gods being the most famous but it is a tourist fucking nightmare).  that said, cinque terre is a unique and worthy stop for a day or two on your trip...just don't be fooled into thinking you're enduring on a similar experience to napali.  

have fun planning.  wife and i are headed to the lakes this summer...como and garda.  can't wait.

Edited February 8, 2022 by sidis

[texasdago 7576]

My two cents is if you can afford it (no idea what rates are now but what I'm finding is sucky), rent a car... opens your world up and can see so much more than the usual spots.  Choose your own adventure.  Besides, driving a stick shift in Italy kicks ass.

[Biff Tannen 45697]

3 hours ago, sidis said:

ife and i are headed to the lakes this summer...como and garda.  can't wait.

See you there.  And thanks for the Dolomite recs.  I hit them and Switzerland in 2018, but can't wait to explore more.

[Biff Tannen 45697]

1 hour ago, texasdago said:

My two cents is if you can afford it (no idea what rates are now but what I'm finding is sucky), rent a car... opens your world up and can see so much more than the usual spots.  Choose your own adventure.  Besides, driving a stick shift in Italy kicks ass.

Also this.  That's why I recommend staying in Porto Venere.  You can park there, the nightlife was great (restaurants and general walkability), and take the boats to the towns no problem. 

[texasdago 7576]

8 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Also this.  That's why I recommend staying in Porto Venere.  You can park there, the nightlife was great (restaurants and general walkability), and take the boats to the towns no problem. 

I think we're going to try to rent through Leasys... I see mixed reviews but their rates seem more reasonable.  I had not heard of them before but the company is a division of Stellantis (aka Fiat, Peugeot, Alfa Romeo, etc.)

 

[Biff Tannen 45697]

1 minute ago, texasdago said:

I think we're going to try to rent through Leasys... I see mixed reviews but their rates seem more reasonable.  I had not heard of them before but the company is a division of Stellantis (aka Fiat, Peugeot, Alfa Romeo, etc.)

 

Went through Sixt last time and got a BMW convertible for a great rate.  Not sure how covid has changed things, but will probably try for the same thing this time around.  Driving a convertible through Tuscany is the only way I'll do it now.

I can't go back to something else.  I can't, I won't.

[texasdago 7576]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Went through Sixt last time and got a BMW convertible for a great rate.  Not sure how covid has changed things, but will probably try for the same thing this time around.  Driving a convertible through Tuscany is the only way I'll do it now.

I can't go back to something else.  I can't, I won't.

I've used Sixt in Switzerland and Italy... they're good but the rates right now are ludicrous, yo.  I normally get something like a wagon, especially when we go skiing... lots of space for bags, space for the boys, etc.  Now you pay more for a Fiat 500.  Ugh!?   

[Biff Tannen 45697]

25 minutes ago, texasdago said:

I've used Sixt in Switzerland and Italy... they're good but the rates right now are ludicrous, yo.  I normally get something like a wagon, especially when we go skiing... lots of space for bags, space for the boys, etc.  Now you pay more for a Fiat 500.  Ugh!?   

Yeah, I'm seeing around $80-$90 a day for June right now.  Will probably wait another month or so to see if prices go down any.

[KingBobo81 535]

I've got a buddy getting married near Lake Como in the beginning of August. Never been to Italy, but the wife and I would rather spend our time eating/drinking/scenery than doing museums/touristy things. Probably going for 7-10 days. Any itinerary/must do recs? Considering spending a few days in Switzerland too.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4797]

5 hours ago, KingBobo81 said:

I've got a buddy getting married near Lake Como in the beginning of August. Never been to Italy, but the wife and I would rather spend our time eating/drinking/scenery than doing museums/touristy things. Probably going for 7-10 days. Any itinerary/must do recs? Considering spending a few days in Switzerland too.

Does your buddy need a new friend? I fucking love Como and give cold hard cash for wedding gifts.

[Biff Tannen 45697]

5 hours ago, KingBobo81 said:

I've got a buddy getting married near Lake Como in the beginning of August. Never been to Italy, but the wife and I would rather spend our time eating/drinking/scenery than doing museums/touristy things. Probably going for 7-10 days. Any itinerary/must do recs? Considering spending a few days in Switzerland too.

Most places in Italy are eating/drinking/scenery, except for the big cities I guess.  Lake Como especially.  7-10 days could give you some time to hit up Tuscany as well.   

[JCHIL 414]

5 hours ago, KingBobo81 said:

I've got a buddy getting married near Lake Como in the beginning of August. Never been to Italy, but the wife and I would rather spend our time eating/drinking/scenery than doing museums/touristy things. Probably going for 7-10 days. Any itinerary/must do recs? Considering spending a few days in Switzerland too.

Lake Lugano, Verzasca River Valley, and  Lake Maggiore are just across the border in Switzerland - Super nice places with many great restaurants.   My favorite activity we did while there was swimming and hanging out on the Verzasca River.  I highly recommend Restaurante Seven in Ascona on Lake Maggiore - we were there 10 years ago and it was rated one of the top 10 restaurants in Switzerland at that time - not sure now but it was an amazing dining experience.  Driving....I see lots of recs for renting and driving and I agree driving is awesome but after driving in Switzerland for a week with a very regimented highway system and very calculated Swiss driving populace, the transition into Italy around Lake Como scared the living shit out of me - very narrow roads, cars parked on both sides, maybe 1' clearance on either side, crazy, less regimented Italians weaving around, and speeding with their hot blooded mannerisms which seemed hotter than the more laid back Swiss so it really put me on edge haha - we still talk and and laugh about it to this day in our family....

Edited February 10, 2022 by JCHIL

[Biff Tannen 45697]

3 minutes ago, JCHIL said:

the transition into Italy around Lake Como scared the living shit out of me - very narrow roads, cars parked on both sides, maybe 1' clearance on either side, crazy, less regimented Italians weaving around, and speeding with their hot blooded mannerisms

That's half the fun man.

[JCHIL 414]

11 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

That's half the fun man.

HAHA very true and Lake Como, its people and restaurants were awesome.  I was just trying to emphasize the drastic driving conditions compared to well, just about anywhere.  We were there in peak touristo time around mid July and it was very busy to say the least😄

[VABuckeye 2472]

I hire a driver but maybe that's just me.

[Biff Tannen 45697]

12 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

I hire a driver but maybe that's just me.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19139]

Driving in Italy...no thanks.  

Looks like I am going to spending some time in 2023 in Italy.  Am going to head back to Capri for 10 days in September 2023.  Maybe that will get it out of my system.  Since I was there this past September, I honestly cannot wait to go back.  Couldn't make it work in 2022 as I am doing Paris and Egypt instead.  So 2023 it is.

Also, I am thinking 10 days in Venice in May.  Given my job, it is virtually impossible for me to take vacation from Jan to the end of April (we have all our reporting deadlines at the end of April), so it is nose to the grindstone until then.  May is a good month for Europe as it is after the Easter rush, but before school lets out, and the weather is usually nice.  Thinking Venice in May of 2023.  I have never been since I had to cancel my trip in 2019.  Thinking make Venice my base and with that much time, can take some day trips around the area.  

Still thinking things through, but that is where my head is at at the moment.

[South Austin 52546]

9 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Driving in Italy...no thanks.  

Looks like I am going to spending some time in 2023 in Italy.  Am going to head back to Capri for 10 days in September 2023.  Maybe that will get it out of my system.  Since I was there this past September, I honestly cannot wait to go back.  Couldn't make it work in 2022 as I am doing Paris and Egypt instead.  So 2023 it is.

Also, I am thinking 10 days in Venice in May.  Given my job, it is virtually impossible for me to take vacation from Jan to the end of April (we have all our reporting deadlines at the end of April), so it is nose to the grindstone until then.  May is a good month for Europe as it is after the Easter rush, but before school lets out, and the weather is usually nice.  Thinking Venice in May of 2023.  I have never been since I had to cancel my trip in 2019.  Thinking make Venice my base and with that much time, can take some day trips around the area.  

Still thinking things through, but that is where my head is at at the moment.

We had a car for a few days when we stayed in Barolo.  It's not as crowded in the Piedmont so it was less stressful.  The motorcyclists can be a bit crazy though.  In fact, on our first day we came upon an accident and there was a crashed motorbike on the side of the road and presumably the rider lying next to it with a sheet draped over him.

Capri and Venice?  You're going to be eating some damn good seafood.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4797]

46 minutes ago, South Austin said:

We had a car for a few days when we stayed in Barolo.  It's not as crowded in the Piedmont so it was less stressful.  The motorcyclists can be a bit crazy though.  In fact, on our first day we came upon an accident and there was a crashed motorbike on the side of the road and presumably the rider lying next to it with a sheet draped over him.

Capri and Venice?  You're going to be eating some damn good seafood.

Did the same last year when I stayed in Monforte and then Tremezzo. Drove all over the place in between. A little odd when Google maps tells you to turn right and all of the sudden you are on a dirt road in the middle of a vineyard, but good times.

The toll roads are the trickiest. Sometimes you need a ticket on and off, sometimes it’s just pay at the ending, and sometimes the machine eats your tickets and a man starts yelling at you in Italian through the intercom.

[Biff Tannen 45697]

6 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

The toll roads are the trickiest. Sometimes you need a ticket on and off, sometimes it’s just pay at the ending, and sometimes the machine eats your tickets and a man starts yelling at you in Italian through the intercom.

Haha.  And sometimes you get pulled over on the way back from drinking wine in Montepulciano and they look at your Texas DL and just chalk you up to being a dumb American and wave you on.

[Mo Horn 8853]

I had zero issues driving... just stay out of the bigger cities, or those with local only zones, and you're fine. Really hard to enjoy all of Tuscany, without a car. The roads are all much more narrow, so that takes a little getting used to, especially the freeways.

[bonnieblue 542]

What if you’re driving Milan (just from, not in) > Como > Bolzano > Verona > La Spezia > Tuscany towns? Certain death or decently doable?

[bonnieblue 542]

On 2/8/2022 at 11:08 AM, sidis said:

cinque terre is beautiful and definitely worth a stay over.  i was last there in 2011 prior to the big landslides later that year so the world has changed a bit on hiking around there.  when i was there, we hiked all the way from monterosso to riomaggiore and apparently, that's not possible anymore.  even if it was, to be clear, it is not near the same thing as kalalau in terms of difficult and "adventure."  it is a pretty full day for sure...and it is beautiful, but it is not quite the same thing.  we started in monterosso and stopped in each town to eat something and then kept going.  the segment from manarola to riomaggiore was paved for most of the way but the rest of the hike was pretty legit.  

however, after the mudslides, i know they changed things and the preceding posts that are far more contemporaneous than my experience confirm that.  looks like you can really only do from monterosso to corniglia now without train or bushwhacking.  so if you're going for the hiking, there are plenty of other great places in italy instead...particularly up in the dolomites. tre cime di lavaredo...or if you are up for another adventure, the alta via 1 in the dolomites is intense.  trails around corno grande in the gran sasso park in abruzzo are a hidden treasure and will be a lot less busy.  there are trails everywhere around lake garda that are incredible.  the amalfi coast has quite a few stunning hikes (path of the gods being the most famous but it is a tourist fucking nightmare).  that said, cinque terre is a unique and worthy stop for a day or two on your trip...just don't be fooled into thinking you're enduring on a similar experience to napali.  

have fun planning.  wife and i are headed to the lakes this summer...como and garda.  can't wait.

Forgot to respond previously, but thanks so much for the great recs. We’re definitely looking to hit up trails in the Dolomites to the extent accessible in May.

[sidis 9832]

7 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

What if you’re driving Milan (just from, not in) > Como > Bolzano > Verona > La Spezia > Tuscany towns? Certain death or decently doable?

absolutely doable.  i've done something similar.  drove from milan to lake como to bergamo/brusaporto to the giant venice parking garage to florence to monterosso to torino back to milano.  easy peasy.  worst part of that is the damn road from como to bellagio...two feet wide with buses and cyclists nonstop.  it's like one of those 90's arcade race car drive video games.

[bonnieblue 542]

6 minutes ago, sidis said:

absolutely doable.  i've done something similar.  drove from milan to lake como to bergamo/brusaporto to the giant venice parking garage to florence to monterosso to torino back to milano.  easy peasy.  worst part of that is the damn road from como to bellagio...two feet wide with buses and cyclists nonstop.  it's like one of those 90's arcade race car drive video games.

Glad to hear it! Was starting to get a bit worried that I made a grave error.

[Mo Horn 8853]

16 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

What if you’re driving Milan (just from, not in) > Como > Bolzano > Verona > La Spezia > Tuscany towns? Certain death or decently doable?

We picked up a rental in La Spezia, drove to Pisa for a few hours and then on to Tuscany. Drove it around Tuscany, other than one day we opted to take the train to Florence, and then returned it at the Rome Airport. Easy.

[sidis 9832]

2 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

Glad to hear it! Was starting to get a bit worried that I made a grave error.

one thing to just be aware of before going anywhere that is relatively "urban" in italy with a car is just to really familiarize yourself with ZTL (limited traffic zones) before you go there so you don't make the mistake of not only parking somewhere you shouldn't, but fucking driving somewhere you shouldn't.  this is what the signs look like:

 

specifically for tuscany, if you go to florence or rome, park somewhere and take a train in. careful in milan too.

everything else is pretty easy.  autostrade tolls can feel expensive for sure but you can really haul on them if you need to get somewhere in a hurry.

[Biff Tannen 45697]

37 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

What if you’re driving Milan (just from, not in) > Como > Bolzano > Verona > La Spezia > Tuscany towns? Certain death or decently doable?

As others have said, very doable. I basically did the first part of that in reverse and then ended with La spezia and Tuscany. It’s a blast. 

[Biff Tannen 45697]

13 minutes ago, sidis said:

one thing to just be aware of before going anywhere that is relatively "urban" in italy with a car is just to really familiarize yourself with ZTL (limited traffic zones) before you go there so you don't make the mistake of not only parking somewhere you shouldn't, but fucking driving somewhere you shouldn't.  this is what the signs look like:

 

specifically for tuscany, if you go to florence or rome, park somewhere and take a train in. careful in milan too.

everything else is pretty easy.  autostrade tolls can feel expensive for sure but you can really haul on them if you need to get somewhere in a hurry.

Also all of this. And when you hit a small town, slow down IMMEDIATELY. They have little cameras in the orange boxes on the side of the road that will bust you if you are going 1km over the posted limit. You won’t know it for 6 months until you get the ticket. I’ve never gotten one yet though, knock on wood. 

[SDG 3319]

I drove all over Rome and to/from Naples last summer and had no issues.  When I got back I found out you’re supposed to get some kind of an eu license to drive there though; oops.   

[texasdago 7576]

17 hours ago, bonnieblue said:

What if you’re driving Milan (just from, not in) > Como > Bolzano > Verona > La Spezia > Tuscany towns? Certain death or decently doable?

You will definitely want a car... 

 

[texasdago 7576]

17 hours ago, bonnieblue said:

Glad to hear it! Was starting to get a bit worried that I made a grave error.

The cool thing is when you are near Bolzano, you can go further in the Dolomiti to visit mountain towns, you can go into the valley on the main autostrada from the Brenner Pass down to Verona to stop by wineries.  Visit Mezzacorona and enjoy some Teroldego Rotaliano.

 

Also, ZTLs are in most towns.  Watch for that sign... once you cross it, you're hosed.

[KingBobo81 535]

Got my itinerary in late July/early August set up....Three days in Bologna, two in Modena (staying at Massimo Bottura's B&B/country house for a couple nights and eating what appears to be the greatest hits of Osteria Francescana, which I am so fucking psyched for), one day in either Parma or Verona, and four days in Como (for my buddy's wedding).

[McCroskey 1505]

I drove all over Rome and to/from Naples last summer and had no issues.  When I got back I found out you’re supposed to get some kind of an eu license to drive there though; oops.   

How’d driving around Naples work out for you? Lol. Any damage to the rental? Jesus what a city, I enjoyed it but can’t imagine driving there.

[SDG 3319]

On 3/23/2022 at 3:32 PM, McCroskey said:

How’d driving around Naples work out for you? Lol. Any damage to the rental? Jesus what a city, I enjoyed it but can’t imagine driving there.

It wasn’t bad outside of the rental car being so small it made mini coopers look like escalades.  I learned very quickly, leaving the airport, that if you miss a turn just redirect and relax. You’ll eventually get to where you’re going. As far as damage; i was worried because i was literally the first person to rent that car so I couldn’t claim prior damage.  

[Telegraph_it 3359]

Rental car is turning into most expensive part of the trip. Leaving for Florence in 9 days. Cannot wait. 

[52-80 19218]

On 2/16/2022 at 4:01 PM, SDG said:

I drove all over Rome and to/from Naples last summer and had no issues.  When I got back I found out you’re supposed to get some kind of an eu license to drive there though; oops.   

American issued licenses are fine.  Technically they need to be accompanied by a translation to the local language.

[South Austin 52546]

On 3/23/2022 at 3:46 PM, KingBobo81 said:

Got my itinerary in late July/early August set up....Three days in Bologna, two in Modena (staying at Massimo Bottura's B&B/country house for a couple nights and eating what appears to be the greatest hits of Osteria Francescana, which I am so fucking psyched for), one day in either Parma or Verona, and four days in Como (for my buddy's wedding).

Go to Verona and get you some braised horse. It’s delicious.

[Gil Bang 25987]

On 2/16/2022 at 7:01 AM, SDG said:

I drove all over Rome and to/from Naples last summer and had no issues.  When I got back I found out you’re supposed to get some kind of an eu license to drive there though; oops.   

Nah.  I went to AAA and got an "International Driver's License" which is basically a document that takes your info and translates it into a half-dozen languages.  I rented a car in Chiusi, and they didn't even require it at the car rental place, but they said that if I got pulled over, the cops would want to see it. IIRC, AAA charged 6 bucks. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Gil Bang

[rpspeed 1399]

If you had 2 1/2 days in Rome and had never been would you spend one of them on a day trip to the Amalfi Coast?

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19139]

38 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

If you had 2 1/2 days in Rome and had never been would you spend one of them on a day trip to the Amalfi Coast?

Nope.  You can’t do Rome justice in 2.5 days, and you can’t do the Amalfi Coast justice on a day trip.

Edited March 28, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon