The Italy Thread

[Loco 3752]

Well the rental car company just charged my card $35 two months after my trip....   ticket incoming...  I'm expecting at least one, maybe two...  and I took it easy

[G650 14229]

8 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I've been doing a lot of research (my mom might be coming with and has a day to decide), but both cities have a lot to offer. I'm excited.

 

They do. In Milan you can catch a show at La Scala, check out the Duomo, and pertinent to your interests, do a ton of shopping on Monte Napoleone. The Mandarin Oriental there is probably the closest to the original MO in terms of service that I've found, and is very central to all the stuff. The Four Seasons there is nearby too, and has a very good rep, though I haven't stayed at that one. The best part of Milan is that a strong plurality of men still wear suits day to day, and women wear dresses. Unlike the hobos you find in America.

Venice is unique. Probably the single most unique city in the world, but honestly it isn't what it was. I love Venice, but if I'm truthful, it's more the memory of Venice. I wouldn't dissuade you from going, everyone should see it once, but it's very overrun tourist trap now. I would only do a day or two there.

Casa Verardo is a really cozy boutique hotel, and usually a pretty good deal. It's tuck away off a square behind San Marco, so much queiter than the melee in most of Venice. https://www.casaverardo.it/

The Barbacani is a short walk away. Teeny tiny restaraunt that opens onto a canal. Only has like five tables. Again, a quiet get away. https://www.ristorante-ai-barbacani.it/

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Well the rental car company just charged my card $35 two months after my trip....   ticket incoming...  I'm expecting at least one, maybe two...  and I took it easy

This happened to me as well. FYI, Avis customer service in Europe is terrible if you have an issue.

[Biff Tannen 45661]

4 hours ago, Loco said:

Well the rental car company just charged my card $35 two months after my trip....   ticket incoming...  I'm expecting at least one, maybe two...  and I took it easy

This is one of my biggest fears.  I really watched my speed, especially through the small towns, but god knows.  Don't think I went into any ZTLs, but I'm bracing for fines down the road just in case.

 

Ok, so I did a lot of northern Italy.  Route was Verona then up into the Dolemites and Val Gardena (Ortisei), then through Austria to St. Moritz (Pontresina), then down to Lake Como (Bellagio), then down to Cinque Terre and over through Tuscany, Siena, and Florence for a few days then a food tour through Parma and Modena to end it.

 

Highlights: Lake Como, Dolemites, and St. Moritz.

Lowlights: Cinque Terre and Florence (wat)

 

Tuscany was nice, though I got caught in a huge bike race in Chianti which was stressful as hell.  Packs of 30+ bicyclists flying around blind curves and a couple of close calls.  

Driving in general was a lot of fun.  Inner F-1 released!  I came to the conclusion that drivers in Europe are a lot better in the sense that they just go with the flow and don't overreact.  They are the right combo of cautious and yet deliberate.  We need roundabouts in the US.  Badly.

The mountain roads in Switzerland and around Como were a lot of fun.  Only a couple of nail biting moments.  I highly recommend a convertible, as we had.

[kevwun 15759]

My inlaws are talking about doing a tuscany trip.  They are wine aficionados so that's what a lot of the trip would revolve around.  Is Florence the best place to fly in to for that?

[G650 14229]

3 minutes ago, kevwun said:

My inlaws are talking about doing a tuscany trip.  They are wine aficionados so that's what a lot of the trip would revolve around.  Is Florence the best place to fly in to for that?

Depends on how they feel about connections. There's a lot more direct flights to Rome, and it's not a long drive up to the Tuscan region.

[G650 14229]

6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is one of my biggest fears.  I really watched my speed, especially through the small towns, but god knows.  Don't think I went into any ZTLs, but I'm bracing for fines down the road just in case.

 

Ok, so I did a lot of northern Italy.  Route was Verona then up into the Dolemites and Val Gardena (Ortisei), then through Austria to St. Moritz (Pontresina), then down to Lake Como (Bellagio), then down to Cinque Terre and over through Tuscany, Siena, and Florence for a few days then a food tour through Parma and Modena to end it.

 

Highlights: Lake Como, Dolemites, and St. Moritz.

Lowlights: Cinque Terre and Florence (wat)

 

Tuscany was nice, though I got caught in a huge bike race in Chianti which was stressful as hell.  Packs of 30+ bicyclists flying around blind curves and a couple of close calls.  

Driving in general was a lot of fun.  Inner F-1 released!  I came to the conclusion that drivers in Europe are a lot better in the sense that they just go with the flow and don't overreact.  They are the right combo of cautious and yet deliberate.  We need roundabouts in the US.  Badly.

The mountain roads in Switzerland and around Como were a lot of fun.  Only a couple of nail biting moments.  I highly recommend a convertible, as we had.

Como = Heaven.

[Loco 3752]

34 minutes ago, G650 said:

Depends on how they feel about connections. There's a lot more direct flights to Rome, and it's not a long drive up to the Tuscan region.

2-2.5 hours drive from either one...  You need a car in Tuscany.  I'd just let the flights decide unless they feel strongly about either one.  I preferred Rome to Florence...  but honestly both felt like tourist traps...  small towns > big cities imho.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Loco

[Biff Tannen 45661]

1 hour ago, Loco said:

 small towns > big cities imho.

100%

[VABuckeye 2472]

3 hours ago, kevwun said:

My inlaws are talking about doing a tuscany trip.  They are wine aficionados so that's what a lot of the trip would revolve around.  Is Florence the best place to fly in to for that?

I'd fly into Milan or Rome and take the train from there.  More options.

I was in Italy from the 12th to the 26th with two nights in Madrid at the end.  I'll post about the trip when things slow down a bit for me.  If you're into wine it was a trip that was mostly focused on wine and vineyards.

[VABuckeye 2472]

3 hours ago, Loco said:

Quote

small towns > big cities imho.

Agree.  We spent a day in Alba and really enjoyed the town although I'd consider Alba a big town.  Our next trip we'll probably stay in more urban areas and day trip to the wine country.  It gets tiring when you have to drive to dinner every single night.

 

[sidis 9822]

photo longcat below.  just got back...good times.  though, la pergola was super disappointing this time.  wasn't happy about it.  cavalieri in rome, positano, and capri on this one.

[Telegraph_it 3357]

Airbnb in Italy (or Europe) is frikin amazing. This view for $120/night. Corner shop right across the street with all the wine you would need.

This my second time and wife’s fourth (she lives there for a year) to visit Florence and Tuscany. It is currently my favorite place to visit out of all my travels. Between this Airbnb and the few villas in Tuscany (Poggio Pillia being our favorite) I don’t think it can be topped.

Also, I finally received a $35 charge from Hertz saying a ticket was incoming. Driving into Florence was probably a bad idea. I just drove like everyone else and didn’t pay attention to traffic signs.

[Biff Tannen 45661]

That's right above a great little wine dive as well.  Not that that narrows it down in Florence.  Also, I'm waiting for my ticket notification as well.  I was very studious about the LTZs and cameras, but I'm sure at least one of those fuckers got me during a 15 day stretch.

Edit: ZTL.  My lexdysia is acting up.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Biff Tannen

[Telegraph_it 3357]

Yes indeed. Directly above the Golden View. Had lunch there for our first visit a few years back. Didn’t think it was necessary this time.

Definitely recommend the wine bar though as long as you make reservation for window seat. 

[52-80 19142]

for an american , its pretty easy to avoid ZTL:

1. its pretty  much city center / tourism central

2. if the road starts to narrow enough where it makes you chivvy yukon drivers nervous... its ztl

[Guest]

On 10/29/2018 at 2:16 PM, sidis said:

photo longcat below.  just got back...good times.  though, la pergola was super disappointing this time.  wasn't happy about it.  cavalieri in rome, positano, and capri on this one.

Great pics.  I've got a two week trip coming up.  Probably won't get to have as much fun as you did on this one.  Did you stay at the Eden Roc hotel in Positano?  Looks like the view and railing from it. 

[sidis 9822]

correct, eden-roc.  recently renovated their rooms and was great.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, sidis said:

correct, eden-roc.  recently renovated their rooms and was great.

Well I am jealous.  You went at the perfect time of year, too.  

[Guest]

16 hours ago, sidis said:

correct, eden-roc.  recently renovated their rooms and was great.

Went back through some photos of my stay there.  This was at the exact same time of year in 2009.  The camera was a ~2005 point and shoot and I'm not much of a photographer anyway, but I thought I'd share just out of interest of the similarity to one of yours:

 

That weekend was one of the best in my life.  There was an unexpected warm front that came in so my young kids were able to swim on the beach, which we practically had all to ourselves.  Due to the low season, everyone had plenty of time to chat with us and were all super friendly.  It felt like we were part of a small town that the world hadn't discovered yet.  

 

Empty beach:

[G650 14229]

Lovely stuff there.

[Guest]

I went down a long nostalgia trip looking through those photos from Italy that year.  I mentioned earlier in the thread about visiting the heel of the boot (Puglia).  Here are some photos from that region; again, same camera and photographer, so they don't really do the place justice:

Trani:

 

Giovanazzo:

 

Alberobello:

 

Otranto:

 

 

Santa Maria di Leuca:

[Loco 3752]

Glad the pigeon wasn't directly overhead

[Biff Tannen 45661]

2 hours ago, Loco said:

Glad the pigeon wasn't directly overhead

Nice.  Siena is awesome.

[Guest]

In Florence for a few weeks, have a weekend to kill.  Thinking about taking the train down to Naples.  I’ve been to Naples before, but I don’t know it as well and my normal plan is just to walk around and stop at any place that looks good.  Looking for recs for particularly good places for coffee, pizza, or whatever else comes to mind from the Naples experts. 

[kevwun 15759]

I would take a trip to Pompeii if you've never been.

[Gil Bang 25907]

On 11/4/2018 at 6:07 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Nice.  Siena is awesome.

I have a similar photo.  

Also, I was surprised to see pot shops there.  

[G650 14229]

On 11/8/2018 at 6:43 AM, Aphelion said:

In Florence for a few weeks, have a weekend to kill.  Thinking about taking the train down to Naples.  I’ve been to Naples before, but I don’t know it as well and my normal plan is just to walk around and stop at any place that looks good.  Looking for recs for particularly good places for coffee, pizza, or whatever else comes to mind from the Naples experts. 

Can send you to some good back alley tailors.

[Loco 3752]

What I want is a back alley wine hookup.  I don't know if it's just bragging, but a few Italians that I spoke with for a little while mentioned their family (uncle or whatever) makes their own wine (very limited personal production), and it's spectacular...  Old family farm etc...   To be honest, it would probably be wasted on me, but I'd like to have a glass or three, ya know, for science and what not.

[texasdago 7564]

2 hours ago, Loco said:

What I want is a back alley wine hookup.  I don't know if it's just bragging, but a few Italians that I spoke with for a little while mentioned their family (uncle or whatever) makes their own wine (very limited personal production), and it's spectacular...  Old family farm etc...   To be honest, it would probably be wasted on me, but I'd like to have a glass or three, ya know, for science and what not.

Funny thing is that you can go to a winery in Italy and get spectacular wine for under $10/bottle and in some cases, you'd be surprised what you can get for 5-7 Euro

[Loco 3752]

35 minutes ago, texasdago said:

Funny thing is that you can go to a winery in Italy and get spectacular wine for under $10/bottle and in some cases, you'd be surprised what you can get for 5-7 Euro

Oh I know.  I think 10 Euro is the sweet spot for me.   I like young reds so that really works out nicely.  In Tuscany we went to the grocery store and bought wine there for the Villa... so good so cheap.  Also did the winery tours, some good, some tourist traps.  On the other end I do have quite a fondness for Brunello...  so RIP the 10 Euro / bottle avg.

I also love that the don't add a shit load of sulfite to the wine.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Loco

[Biff Tannen 45661]

2 minutes ago, Loco said:

On the other end I do have quite a fondness for Brunello...  so RIP the 10 Euro / bottle avg.

Yep, I got completely taken by this little scam they have.  So damn good.

[Loco 3752]

Any Italian wine recommendations that you can get back here in the states?

Total Wine and More has this... (but i like young reds)  $12.99

[sidis 9822]

if you like fruit bombs, tuscan sangioveses are pretty consistent.  brunello, etc...

barolos are the best italians imo but tend to be a bit pricier.

but asking for best italian wines is the same as asking for best french...there is a massive variety of types and qualities and what you would want depends on what you would like.

[G650 14229]

There's a couple websites that will ship  Menegola Sforzato to the States, I will try and look who the last I got it from was.

 

One of my favorites.

[texasdago 7564]

Aglianico del Vulture is great.  Just introduced some friends to Rosso Piceno and they really liked it... same with Salice Salentino which is made with Negroamaro.

[Guest]

On 11/9/2018 at 5:57 PM, G650 said:

Can send you to some good back alley tailors.

Thanks for the offer, but I didn’t make it down there.  Stayed in the Tuscany region. 

 

On 11/10/2018 at 11:27 PM, sidis said:

if you like fruit bombs, tuscan sangioveses are pretty consistent.  brunello, etc...

barolos are the best italians imo but tend to be a bit pricier.

but asking for best italian wines is the same as asking for best french...there is a massive variety of types and qualities and what you would want depends on what you would like.

What are your thoughts on the various types of Amaro?  I used to prefer montenegro, but now I mostly go with del capo.  Just came from dinner and had two little Amaro del capo drinks in what looked like tiny frosted beer mugs. 

[texasdago 7564]

So, what I suggest is check out some of the various regional amaros to see what you like.  You can buy Montenegro here easily.  Something like Amario Ciociaro, Amaro del Gargano or even looking for more obscure ones like Genepi from Aosta or something that you can't find easily here.  

[sidis 9822]

 

18 hours ago, Aphelion said:

Thanks for the offer, but I didn’t make it down there.  Stayed in the Tuscany region. 

 

What are your thoughts on the various types of Amaro?  I used to prefer montenegro, but now I mostly go with del capo.  Just came from dinner and had two little Amaro del capo drinks in what looked like tiny frosted beer mugs. 

i do not have a very refined amaro appreciation.  it is fairly basic and largely driven by the cocktail context.  very little to offer here.

your question piqued my interest though and i found this article that seemed somewhat helpful on the regional breakdowns:

https://www.saveur.com/guide-italian-amaro

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, sidis said:

 

i do not have a very refined amaro appreciation.  it is fairly basic and largely driven by the cocktail context.  very little to offer here.

your question piqued my interest though and i found this article that seemed somewhat helpful on the regional breakdowns:

https://www.saveur.com/guide-italian-amaro

Thanks for sharing; reading through the article now.  I know amaros are more basic, but I usually drink one neat after dinner here and the range of flavors between them is pretty large.  Some I like a lot and some I don't like much at all.  Started to track which ones I like recently and figured you frequent travelers and food connoisseurs would have some good recs.  

[sidis 9822]

i wasn't very clear in my post...i wasn't stating that amaros are basic.  i was saying that my appreciation for it is very basic.  after reading that article, i suspect the range of amaro is anything but basic and is very interesting from region to region.

despite my love for most things italian, when it comes to apertifs and digestifs, i am an admitted francophile (with the huge exception of limoncello which i make myself every few months).  chartreuse, sauternes, kir, champagne, eau de vie, etc...  love me some aperol spritzes at eden-roc in positano but in general, most of the straight amaros i have had are just a bit to bitter on their own for me...though reading about some of the less well-known regions in the article has me interested in trying some more.

Edited November 13, 2018 by sidis
weird, not sure what happened here.

[sidis 9822]

7 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

Thanks for sharing; reading through the article now.  I know amaros are more basic, but I usually drink one neat after dinner here and the range of flavors between them is pretty large.  Some I like a lot and some I don't like much at all.  Started to track which ones I like recently and figured you frequent travelers and food connoisseurs would have some good recs.  

i wasn't very clear in my post...i wasn't stating that amaros are basic.  i was saying that my appreciation for it is very basic.  after reading that article, i suspect the range of amaro is anything but basic and is very interesting from region to region.

despite my love for most things italian, when it comes to apertifs and digestifs, i am an admitted francophile (with the huge exception of limoncello which i make myself every few months).  chartreuse, sauternes, kir, champagne, eau de vie, etc...  love me some aperol spritzes at eden-roc in positano but in general, most of the straight amaros i have had are just a bit to bitter on their own for me...though reading about some of the less well-known regions in the article has me interested in trying some more.

[Gil Bang 25907]

Y'all ever drink any Strega?  I once had an Italian GF, and her dad once offered me a Strega.  I'd forgotten about it, and I don't recall even seeing it in Italy.  Is it still a thing?  

[texasdago 7564]

Yes, you can find it around.

 

BTW, big fan of Vov altough I make my own.  If you happen to be north in the mountains during the winter, order a bombardino.  Thank me later unless you drink too many and then don't blame me.

[Loco 3752]

That's a spicy meatball

[sidis 9822]

3 hours ago, Loco said:

That's a spicy meatball

too much inner formula one being let out...

[RamjetFDO 10575]

On 11/8/2018 at 1:26 PM, kevwun said:

I would take a trip to Pompeii if you've never been.

This.

If you're in that area and don't spend at least a half-day there, then shame on you. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

So, for Milan, anyone have any advice on Last Supper Tickets?  They have not released the tickets yet for April and May, and I am getting a bit nervous.

[MirrOlure 14757]

So....for a variety of reasons, which are of no interest to anyone here....our mid-April trip to Italy has been pushed to first two weeks of July.  Far less than ideal, due to summertime temps and hordes of tourists....but nevertheless, with that in mind:

I've been to Italy on two separate extended trips (Rome/Naples and Venice/Florence/Verona), but was young and single at the time.

Looking for any and all input, suggestions, do's, and more importantly, don't do's.

My thinking is that staying away from Rome and the south is probably the best idea.  Contemplating making it a three-part trip, three full nights in each part, not including travel days. 

Part 1 - Food-centric.   Set up base in Bologna, and venturing the Parma and Modena and parts in between.

Part 2 -  Coastal.  Headquarter in one of the Cinque Terra towns for at least two, maybe 3 nights.  This is the "iffiest" part of the trip, so please chime in.

Part 3 - Wine and Culture.  Set up base in Florence, or nearby, for full-blown Renaissance experience, with a wine excursion thrown in.

Thanks in advance

[Biff Tannen 45661]

6 minutes ago, MirrOlure said:

So....for a variety of reasons, which are of no interest to anyone here....our mid-April trip to Italy has been pushed to first two weeks of July.  Far less than ideal, due to summertime temps and hordes of tourists....but nevertheless, with that in mind:

I've been to Italy on two separate extended trips (Rome/Naples and Venice/Florence/Verona), but was young and single at the time.

Looking for any and all input, suggestions, do's, and more importantly, don't do's.

My thinking is that staying away from Rome and the south is probably the best idea.  Contemplating making it a three-part trip, three full nights in each part, not including travel days. 

Part 1 - Food-centric.   Set up base in Bologna, and venturing the Parma and Modena and parts in between.

Part 2 -  Coastal.  Headquarter in one of the Cinque Terra towns for at least two, maybe 3 nights.  This is the "iffiest" part of the trip, so please chime in.

Part 3 - Wine and Culture.  Set up base in Florence, or nearby, for full-blown Renaissance experience, with a wine excursion thrown in.

Thanks in advance

For Part 2, I highly recommend staying in Portovenere instead of one of the Cinque Terre towns.  Way fewer tourists and you can take a 30 min (or so) ferry to all of the towns.  Portovenere is a really cool little medieval town with a super chill vibe.