Time for a New Hot Water Heater?

[Stella Link 534]

I'm installing tile in the closet where my hot water heater sits.  I'll need to take out the water heater to install the new tile (carpet is in there now).

My current hot water heater is 10 years old, and has a 9 year warranty.  It works great, and still looks brand new.  No visible signs of wear or problems anywhere.

Question:  Since I'm moving it, should I just go ahead and replace it instead or should I keep it?  I've spoken with a few neighbors, and the recommendations are 50/50.

 

 

[Your Mom 4852]

I don't know shit about hot water heaters but in 2004 I bought a house built in 1980 with the original hot water heater.  The inspector recommended replacing it then.  I didn't, water was hot.  It needed a repair a few years later, some kind of cleaning if I recall.  It wasn't expensive.  Fast forward to 2017 and the ex-wife finally had to replace it.  

Then again I'm sure someone else has a story of the pain in the ass it was to have not replaced one in time.

[kevwun 15925]

You won't know that the tank is about to rust through until it happens.  Could happen 4 years from now or it could do it tomorrow.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Why does hot water need heating.... That's all I got.

 

 

What's a new garden variety water heater cost these days ?   $300 or less, I'd replace it if you plan on being there longer than 5 years.  Or pull the anode and see how much corrosion is on it. If it's fairly clean I might let it ride.

[woohorn 1131]

I'd keep the old one as long as possible. Make note of dimensions of new tanks and make sure your closet is big enough for the new standard though. It may be a good time to make room while you are working on closet anyway. I've heard crazy stories about having to move walls and widen doorways to fit the new tanks.

[kevwun 15925]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Why does hot water need heating.... That's all I got.

 

 

What's a new garden variety water heater cost these days ?   $300 or less, I'd replace it if you plan on being there longer than 5 years.  Or pull the anode and see how much corrosion is on it. If it's fairly clean I might let it ride.

Had mine replaced a month or 2 ago.  Was just shy of $700 with installation.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, kevwun said:

Had mine replaced a month or 2 ago.  Was just shy of $700 with installation.

Install was a couple hundred I'm guessing ?  And there are different levels of quality for sure.  At the $700 number I'd definitely look at the anode and re evaluate then.

[kevwun 15925]

No, it was only $80.  I have a propane tank and my propane company does very reasonable replacements.  The tank itself was about $600 of that.

[horn4life 3783]

First you are gonna need to drain the tank to move it anyhow, so you are gonna hook up a garden hose to the drain spicot and route the water outside.  I actually think manufacturer's suggest doing this occassionally to remove sediment and rust from bottom of the unit where it settles. If there is a SHIT TON of rust sediment then maybe replace.  HOWEVER what I would suggest you do is definitely put a drain pan underneath the unit. It's a good safety for $20 and is in the current code.

I am putting that Mofo back in place.  I put one in at a house I remodeled in Corpus and did it by myself.  It was basically one bear hug lift to get it up on the stand and some wrenches and teflon tape on the thread when you hook it back up.  If gas heater make sure vent is properly back in place and use yellow teflon tape on any gas line connections. I think the Unit was just over $450 but it was a smaller unit.  

If I was gonna replace I might be researching tankless to free up some space in that closet? 

[woohorn 1131]

Hell, getting my last attic 50gal water heater replaced was $900, but I don't remember the labor breakdown.

[GringoSalado 1652]

1 hour ago, kevwun said:

You won't know that the tank is about to rust through until it happens.  Could happen 4 years from now or it could do it tomorrow.

Removing the anode rod may give you a decent idea.

 

edit:

 

One thing I would do if I were the OP is make sure my closet and closet doorway will accommodate a new water heater. It would suck to rework that space and then have to alter it again to fit a replacement unit.

Edited December 4, 2018 by GringoSalado
OU sucks

[Stella Link 534]

2 hours ago, horn4life said:

First you are gonna need to drain the tank to move it anyhow, so you are gonna hook up a garden hose to the drain spicot and route the water outside.  I actually think manufacturer's suggest doing this occassionally to remove sediment and rust from bottom of the unit where it settles. If there is a SHIT TON of rust sediment then maybe replace.  HOWEVER what I would suggest you do is definitely put a drain pan underneath the unit. It's a good safety for $20 and is in the current code.

I am putting that Mofo back in place.  I put one in at a house I remodeled in Corpus and did it by myself.  It was basically one bear hug lift to get it up on the stand and some wrenches and teflon tape on the thread when you hook it back up.  If gas heater make sure vent is properly back in place and use yellow teflon tape on any gas line connections. I think the Unit was just over $450 but it was a smaller unit.  

If I was gonna replace I might be researching tankless to free up some space in that closet? 

I think I will drain it and see what's inside.  You're right, the manufacturer suggests draining it every year or two, but I've never done it.  Whatever I decide to do, I'm going to start draining it every year or two.

[Stella Link 534]

1 hour ago, GringoSalado said:

Removing the anode rod may give you a decent idea.

 

edit:

 

One thing I would do if I were the OP is make sure my closet and closet doorway will accommodate a new water heater. It would suck to rework that space and then have to alter it again to fit a replacement unit.

This is one of the issues I have.  Only certain models will fit through the door and in the space of the closet.  Found that out when I replaced the original hot water heater 10 years ago.  I have checked around and there are still good quality models that will fit.  I think I'll have it checked out and see what it looks like inside.  I'll probably end up buying a new one just to be safe.  Agree with others, if it only has 3, 4 or 5 years of life left, might as well buy another one with a 10-year warranty.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

2 hours ago, kevwun said:

Had mine replaced a month or 2 ago.  Was just shy of $700 with installation.

That's a small heater if it included install.  Most of the ones at the Depot are around that before tax.

But if you have a hose to drain the old one and it's not in the attic, install is really easy.

[kevwun 15925]

Mine is in the corner of the garage, so it is pretty easy.  I have a 40 gallon.

[Bernard 879]

Part of the preventive replacement calculus depends on the potential damage a leak would cause. Mine are all in the attic (of a two story house and a three story townhouse), so replacing them just because they are old seemed to make a lot of sense. 

Bernard

[kevwun 15925]

Yeah, that would make me very nervous.  I don't understand why architects and home builders do that.

Edited December 4, 2018 by kevwun

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 hours ago, kevwun said:

Yeah, that would make me very nervous.  I don't understand why architects and home builders do that.

Why would you ever put a water heater in an attic ?  First of all any new home should be tankless, if you have gas available. Secondly for the very reason they hold water and water finds ways to fuck up things, they should never be in an attic unless in a pan with 2 drains, and then they need to be in an insulated space.  

How tight does a design have to be that there isn't a 2 x 2 space to carve out for a water heater ?

Edited December 5, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[Whitman 694]

7 hours ago, Your Mom said:

I don't know shit about hot water heaters but in 2004 I bought a house built in 1980 with the original hot water heater.  The inspector recommended replacing it then.  I didn't, water was hot.  It needed a repair a few years later, some kind of cleaning if I recall.  It wasn't expensive.  Fast forward to 2017 and the ex-wife finally had to replace it.  

Then again I'm sure someone else has a story of the pain in the ass it was to have not replaced one in time.

There is a whole thread about not replacing the wife in time and stories/costs/pain in the ass associated with it.

[Gil Bang 26035]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Why wold you ever put a water heater in an attic ?  First of all any new home should be tankless, if you have gas available. Secondly for the very reason they hold water and water fonds ways to fuck up things, they should never be in an attic unless in a pan with 2 drains, and then they need to be in an insulated space.  

How tight does a design have to be that there isn't a 2 x 2 space to carve out for a water heater ?

So, we live in an older neighborhood.  This house where I sit was originally built in 1930 or so, with significant additions done in the 60's and 70's.  It's a little cut up, but it works.  Neighbor across the street has a house built in the 60's.  

He calls the other evening.  "Gil...help...my water heater's leaking and I can't find the shutoff".  

I go over there to help.  Fucking WH is in the garage, on a platform, and the bottom of the platform is about 6 feet off the ground, directly above the washer and dryer.  I found the shutoff, and he called a local plumber to swap it out.  I've never seen such a thing, and I hope to never see anything like that again.  Fucking stupid. 

[dcbc 14511]

Paid $750 to replace ours (with installation).  My experience is that they last about 11 years.  The newer ones are more expensive and are supposed to be made to higher standards, but who knows.  Lots of code updates in the decade lifespan of these things.  Ours is in the garage.  So we keep them until they rust out and spill out of the drain pipe from the pan underneath out the side of the garage.  Before we had that, it filled up the garage floor with water.  We opened the door and watched it spill down the driveway to the street. 

[zork 629]

13 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

So, we live in an older neighborhood.  This house where I sit was originally built in 1930 or so, with significant additions done in the 60's and 70's.  It's a little cut up, but it works.  Neighbor across the street has a house built in the 60's.  

He calls the other evening.  "Gil...help...my water heater's leaking and I can't find the shutoff".  

I go over there to help.  Fucking WH is in the garage, on a platform, and the bottom of the platform is about 6 feet off the ground, directly above the washer and dryer.  I found the shutoff, and he called a local plumber to swap it out.  I've never seen such a thing, and I hope to never see anything like that again.  Fucking stupid. 

I think code says garage installs for gas water heaters have to be X" off the floor due to potential ignition issues for low lying gas fumes.  6 feet is way more than the minimum though I would guess.

yep(although it mentions sealed combustion chamber present on newer models):

Quote

The Uniform Plumbing Code, which establishes standards nationwide, says that the flame or sparking mechanism in a gas water heater must be at least 18 inches off the ground. This means that an accurate measurement for proper installation is not based on the distance from the bottom of the water heater to the floor. Instead, it is based on the distance from the pilot or lighting mechanism to the ground. Codes vary by city and county and may be more strict than national standards, so check with your local officials prior to installation. In addition, some newer models of gas water heaters have combustion chambers that are completely sealed, eliminating the need for space between the ground and the ignition mechanism. In many cases, however, building codes have not caught up with this new technology and still require a minimum distance to the ground.

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/high-off-ground-should-water-heater-be-93138.html

 

This opinion adds a caveat that the burner part, not necessarily the base, must be 18" above the garage floor:

Quote

The building inspector's demand for an 18-inch platform is based on a common misreading of the Uniform Plumbing Code. Section 510.1 of the code says: "Water heaters generating a glow, spark or flame capable of igniting flammable vapors may be installed in a garage, provided the pilots, burners or heating elements and switches are at least eighteen (18) inches above the floor level."

This does not say the water heater must be on an 18-inch platform. It says the source of ignition must be 18 inches above the garage floor. And because pilot lights, gas burners and electric heating elements are located several inches above the base of a water heater, an 18-inch platform is not necessary to raise those components to the height specified by code. In the case of your gas water heater, if the pilot and burner are at least three inches above the base of the fixture, then a 15-inch platform will elevate the flames at least 18 inches above the floor.

Ask the inspector to show you this paragraph in the code book. Then both of you can examine the burner to determine whether it is at the required height above the floor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18054-2004Oct8.html

Edited December 5, 2018 by zork
edit screwed up the text formatting

[phdhorn 6224]

My first one lasted 23 years and this one's on 13.  Run the motherfucker until it explodes.

[bluto 4942]

Personal experience after replacing mine a few months ago... f that noise on draining one for 'regular maintenance', you're just as likely to send sentiment into your lines as you are to prolong the heater. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, bluto said:

Personal experience after replacing mine a few months ago... f that noise on draining one for 'regular maintenance', you're just as likely to send sentiment into your lines as you are to prolong the heater. 

That's not really the issue. The sediment issue is that it causes the tank to deteriorate and ultimately fail. And how does draining it send sediment into your lines ?  If you run it longer than the recovery rate, which happens with regularity in many peoples homes with kids (I'm betting), you're often filling a mostly drained tank, stirring up potential sediments.  Just my theory of course.

[Loco 3754]

26 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

My first one lasted 23 years and this one's on 13.  Run the motherfucker until it explodes your insurance company makes you replace it.

Mine was circa '82  It was an 80 gallon behemoth.  I had replaced the lower heating element once and the inside looked good.    My insurance company told me they would drop me if i didn't change it out.  There was no talking them out of it, even though its in the garage.

So I bought a 40 gallon ...

• flipped off the power
• turned off water supply
• drained the old one with a garden hose
• sanded/cleaned the copper pipes
• cut the copper pipes
• unscrewed the cover plate
• unscrewed 3 screws
• rolled it out on a skateboard for bulk trash (recyclers got it within 2 hrs)
• Put the new one in place
• installed 2 sharkbite flex hoses
• re connected 3 wires
• turned water back on
• check for leaks
• turned power back on

after the water drained out of the old one it took 30mins ???  ezpz

My initial thought was "well I'll have a nice new water heater that's more energy efficient" (insulation/design etc)...   until I checked the old vs new energy star labels...  turns out I'm gonna save a whopping $15/year for half the capacity.   Evidently there aren't any meaningful advances in electrical resistance element heating (no shit Sherlock!)

 

$360/$15/yr = 24 yr repay!  Fuck yeah!

[phdhorn 6224]

Mine's one of those in the attic, although when I get the next one I'm moving it down to the garage floor.  The newer heaters or wider anyway, although my plumber said I could still get mine up in the attic although it will be a tight squeeze. But I still want to move the next one to the garage. Of course, that means slight re-plumbing which is more $$ and no, I'm not asking my husband. I'm calling a plumber. It would be stupid to do anything else.

It's it's basically on top of the garage, so if it leaks through there would be little secondary damage.  But I'm keeping an eye on it, meanwhile it seems to be working fine.

So you can see why I'm not in a hurry to get it replaced until it basically launches through the roof or something.

Edited December 5, 2018 by phdhorn

[Wally Fairway 5587]

22 hours ago, kevwun said:

Mine is in the corner of the garage, so it is pretty easy.  I have a 40 gallon.

Mines in the basement. I know that's no help, but I thought we were just sharing.

Had to replace mine last year, had the one in it from when we bought the house around 98, no idea how old it was. But I do know they are a lot more expensive than the last one I change out, which would have been around1987, when I lived in Houston (that one was in the laundry room (again, just for sharing sake)

[BottleRocket 647]

Personal experience after replacing mine a few months ago... f that noise on draining one for 'regular maintenance', you're just as likely to send sentiment into your lines as you are to prolong the heater. 

A few years ago I had a plumbing company take a look at mine because it was rumbling and knocking. He told me that it needed to be drained and flushed but he wasn’t going to touch it because sediment could end up in lines down stream and they weren’t going to take on that liability. This was AAA Auger and not some mom and pop. I haven’t touched it to this day and it’s still knocking along.

[Whitman 694]

Indoor plumbing..... pffft......  / WV

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Whitman said:

Indoor plumbing..... pffft......  / WV

A friend liked to tell the story about the time his grandfather reacted to his wifes request to build indoor plumbing.  His only response, "what ??!!  SHIT, In the house !!!???"

[Gil Bang 26035]

My grandfather (born in Texas in 1910) used to make fun of Californians for “cooking outdoors and shittin’ in the house.

[Loco 3754]

3 hours ago, phdhorn said:

Mine's one of those in the attic, although when I get the next one I'm moving it down to the garage floor.  The newer heaters or wider anyway, although my plumber said I could still get mine up in the attic although it will be a tight squeeze. But I still want to move the next one to the garage. Of course, that means slight re-plumbing which is more $$ and no, I'm not asking my husband. I'm calling a plumber. It would be stupid to do anything else.

It's it's basically on top of the garage, so if it leaks through there would be little secondary damage.  But I'm keeping an eye on it, meanwhile it seems to be working fine.

So you can see why I'm not in a hurry to get it replaced until it basically launches through the roof or something.

I know what you mean, but that water heater is getting the benefit of heat from your attic.  I know it's not a huge deal, but I love little things that increase system efficiency.   If I had the room I would have put mine in the attic.

[kevwun 15925]

Which won't be very comforting when you have to replace parts of your ceiling because of water damage.

[horn4life 3783]

SUPER IMPORTANT!!!!!

Go buy a screw on drain cap!!!  When you drain there heater there is about a 25% chance some rust or crud is gonna make it where you cannot completely close the valve and end up with a drip out of the valve.  You don't want to install it, fill it, and then see drip, drip, drip...It's a great $2 safety!

Make sure to look specifically for a drain leak after intallation and you pressurize the unit again with water pressure.

It's pretty simple honestly, but I did race off to the hardward store when I reinstalled a unit to redeck a few years ago. Thankfully I had a pan and the drip was slow but like I said buying a drain cap for the valve is smart.  You will find them with the hoses, in your hardware store, as they are basically a hose cap. I prefer the brass if available.

 

[davidg 4038]

All I"ve got is to replace that bitch before Chirstmas Eve. My parents had two water heaters go out on Christmas Eve day and its fantastic to watch your Dad cuss out Christmas carolers who came up to the garage to sing while were are trying to get the new one put in.   Merry Christmas!

[Bat Guano 359]

On 12/5/2018 at 9:16 AM, Onboard 2.0 said:

That's not really the issue. The sediment issue is that it causes the tank to deteriorate and ultimately fail. And how does draining it send sediment into your lines ?  If you run it longer than the recovery rate, which happens with regularity in many peoples homes with kids (I'm betting), you're often filling a mostly drained tank, stirring up potential sediments.  Just my theory of course.

I don't think the tank drains during regular usage. The water flows in at the same rate it flows out; it never empties at all unless you shut off the input valve, in which case you wouldn't have any hot water pressure anyway. Under heavy usage you just get a mixture of more cold water in with the hot until the heater catches up.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

10 minutes ago, Bat Guano said:

I don't think the tank drains during regular usage. The water flows in at the same rate it flows out; it never empties at all unless you shut off the input valve, in which case you wouldn't have any hot water pressure anyway. Under heavy usage you just get a mixture of more cold water in with the hot until the heater catches up.

Gotcha thanks, makes sense.  Seems like an inline filter would be a good item to add to a water heater ?? 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[HOOKEM4 5044]

5 hours ago, horn4life said:

SUPER IMPORTANT!!!!!

Go buy a screw on drain cap!!!  When you drain there heater there is about a 25% chance some rust or crud is gonna make it where you cannot completely close the valve and end up with a drip out of the valve.  You don't want to install it, fill it, and then see drip, drip, drip...It's a great $2 safety!

Make sure to look specifically for a drain leak after intallation and you pressurize the unit again with water pressure.

It's pretty simple honestly, but I did race off to the hardward store when I reinstalled a unit to redeck a few years ago. Thankfully I had a pan and the drip was slow but like I said buying a drain cap for the valve is smart.  You will find them with the hoses, in your hardware store, as they are basically a hose cap. I prefer the brass if available.

 

If you have a screw on cap and a clogged valve, how are you supposed to ever drain it again hotshot?

[SHOOTER12 8832]

On 12/4/2018 at 10:26 AM, kevwun said:

You won't know that the tank is about to rust through until it happens.  Could happen 4 years from now or it could do it tomorrow.

^^^^^^^^^^This right here.  Just went through that nightmare, replacement, insurance claim, repairs etc etc.

[BottleRocket 647]

22 hours ago, davidg said:

All I"ve got is to replace that bitch before Chirstmas Eve. My parents had two water heaters go out on Christmas Eve day and its fantastic to watch your Dad cuss out Christmas carolers who came up to the garage to sing while were are trying to get the new one put in.   Merry Christmas!

 

[woohorn 1131]

 If I had the room I would have put mine in the attic.

Which won't be very comforting when you have to replace parts of your ceiling because of water damage.

I get the concept, but I have had 2 attic tanks fail and I didn't have a problem shutting them down before the pan overflowed. I noticed hot water running out the conspicuous copper drain pipe required by code. I know I wasn't on vacation, etc., but risks are pretty minimal if attic tanks are done correctly. No ragrets.

[BottleRocket 647]

Something like this water sensor alarm seems like cheap insurance against any potential water leak.  Lots to choose from, I just chose one at random like your mother would.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Zircon-Leak-Alert-WiFi-Electronic/dp/B0748RK2XQ/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1544202023&sr=8-7&keywords=water+sensor+alarm

 

[pearlandhorn 3274]

Like someone said, you don’t know when the bottom will rust out causing a leak. Given the location is in your closet, I would lean on the side of going ahead and replacing it if you can afford it. 

[Paper_jam 836]

When replacing an old water heater In the Austin city limits, do they make you also put in an expansion tank now?

I'm looking at reviews on new water heaters and it seems like the modern computer-controlled valves/burners are a PITA that shut everything down if there's so much as a mousefart of a problem or variable out of range...

 

 

 

[kevwun 15925]

Overly complicated appliances cause way more headaches that they are worth.  Simplicity is a good thing when you are talking about things like refrigerators, washing machines and water heaters.  Fancy display panels burns out a hell of a lot quicker than a knob does.

Edited December 10, 2018 by kevwun

[Dutchrudder 11152]

Is there any reason to not get a tankless water heater?  I have a 10 year old traditional tank heater that likely needs to be replaced in the near future. It's the attic, so I'm thinking it would probably be better to go tankless. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 hours ago, Dutchrudder said:

Is there any reason to not get a tankless water heater?  I have a 10 year old traditional tank heater that likely needs to be replaced in the near future. It's the attic, so I'm thinking it would probably be better to go tankless. 

No reason not to.

[Updawg 2286]

Is there any reason to not get a tankless water heater?  I have a 10 year old traditional tank heater that likely needs to be replaced in the near future. It's the attic, so I'm thinking it would probably be better to go tankless. 

I've heard there can be water conditioner issues to take into account. I'm in the same boat. In Austin without a water conditioner

[fattyflattie 4638]

I have two monsters in the attic. When they go, we are going tankless. Im almost certain they are wider than the attic access anyhow.  They may get drained and just chill for awhile.  Luckily we have a filter that services the entire house, and are only 5 years in.