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DaysOff

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DaysOff

DaysOff 7,977

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I know there was a thread about this on TOS, but TABC fails to put Spec's out of business and is now being sued by Spec's and claiming sovereign immunity.

https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/texas-liquor-giant-spec-s-sues-texas-alcoholic-beverage-commission-for-abusive-enforcement-attempt?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=ksat12

 

The state’s largest liquor chain — Spec’s Wine, Spirits and Finer Foods — is suing the Texas Alcohol Beverage Commission for “abusive regulatory overreach” over an enforcement action that dragged on for almost two years before falling apart in administrative proceedings last year, court documents show.

The federal lawsuit, filed in Houston in late August but only recently unsealed, alleges that the TABC “wrongfully and maliciously” attempted to “extort” money from Spec’s by threatening to effectively shut the company down or by making the family-owned business fork over more than $700 million in civil penalties.

The TABC, citing the pending litigation, declined to comment.

In a stinging rebuke of the TABC last year, a pair of administrative law judges said the agency failed to prove dozens of allegations and chastised the agency for failing to disclose evidence to their own witness (and the court). The judges also called out the agency for “stacking” charges, a tactic commonly used to pressure defendants into a settlement. In the end, the judges recommended no fines be assessed against the liquor chain.

Now Spec’s is seeking an unspecified amount of money for damages that include lost profits, more than $1 million in attorneys fees and harm to its reputation. The lawsuit includes a request to impose exemplary, or punitive, damages — which are three times the amount of actual damages.

“Acting under color of law, [the TABC] threatened and pursued groundless allegations and enforcement actions,” the lawsuit says. “[The TABC] intentionally trumped up false claims in knowing violation of the law.”

The lawsuit also alleges the agency provided false testimony during the spring proceedings, which were the administrative equivalent of a trial.

“This plan culminated in an attempt to perpetrate fraud on the court at the trial, which was ultimately unsuccessful,” said Spec’s lawyer Al Van Huff. “This is the type of deceitful and abusive conduct that should never be tolerated by agents of the state of Texas, and the TABC will now be required to answer for its conduct.”

In seeking to have the lawsuit dismissed, state lawyers argued in court filings that the company can’t sue because the agency is a governmental entity that enjoys “sovereign immunity” and court precedent won’t allow Spec’s to get around that.

The state argues that Spec’s already fought for and received relief from the enforcement action when the administrative law judges ruled in its favor.

“Spec’s cannot plausibly allege facts converting its administrative win into a federal claim for attorneys fees and purported lost profits,” the state argues. “Spec’s lawsuit does not assert any viable federal claim from which defendants are not wholly immune, and defendants respectfully request that this court dismiss this case in its entirety.”

Liquor chains like Spec’s must adhere to the state’s antique alcohol laws, which control virtually every aspect of the industry — from how beverages can be marketed to where they can be sold (hint: not at Walmart and Costco).

The TABC’s case against Spec’s began with an audit of the retailer’s operations in February 2013. Three years later, the agency formally alleged that Spec’s ran afoul of various technical provisions of the alcoholic beverage code, including marketing rules and restrictions on dealings with wholesalers.

Spec’s rejected a settlement offer in 2015 and fought back at the State Office of Administrative Hearings, or SOAH. By the time the case went before the SOAH judges, the TABC had threatened to yank all of Spec’s permits or impose fines of up to $713 million, according to calculations made by SOAH.

Then, during an administrative trial in early 2017, one allegation after another crumbled before the judges. And just as the enforcement case was falling apart at SOAH, the TABC found itself in the hot seat in the Texas Legislature after The Texas Tribune reported on spending controversies and abusive treatment of companies it regulates. Those scandals prompted a wave of retirements and forced departures of top agency honchos.

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DaysOff

DaysOff 7,977

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They hassled me in the summer of '86 running undercover stings at the 7/11 carding youths coming out of the store with 6 packs. Pulled us over in an unmarked car. Didn't have my license on me but had the number memorized and they ran it through SCMODS or whatever the fuck and let us go. I was 19 and legal at the time. "See you in September boys", was his quote walking away. Fucking asshole civil servant wanna be cop.

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DigglerontheHoof

DigglerontheHoof 21,261

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17 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

They hassled me in the summer of '86 running undercover stings at the 7/11 carding youths coming out of the store with 6 packs. Pulled us over in an unmarked car. Didn't have my license on me but had the number memorized and they ran it through SCMODS or whatever the fuck and let us go. I was 19 and legal at the time. "See you in September boys", was his quote walking away. Fucking asshole civil servant wanna be cop.

Must've been summer of 85, that Labor day is when it went from 19 to 21.  I was legal for all of 4.5 months. 

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Nolacycling

Nolacycling 893

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On 12/6/2018 at 1:10 PM, Gene Parmesan said:

Are there any states that have normal liquor laws?.  Just seems like every state has their own crazy rules.  We'll probably be able to buy weed from Costco before we can buy whiskey.

If by normal, you mean non-restrictive, Then I'd put Louisiana out there. Nothing like drive-through daquiri stores with real alcohol.

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Telegraph_it

Telegraph_it 3,359

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Oh Surly. Thread about TABC abusing power turns to a bash on Baptists (generalization much?). Some of y’all really cannot help yourself. 

Back to the thread. My summer job in high school/college was selling beer at the woodlands pavilion. TABC on numerous occasions would set up a “sting” and try to catch us selling to minors. Said minors could not be more obvious and also the TABC twats stuck out with their cowboy hats and pearl snapped shirts. Texas Ranger wannabes. 

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Nolacycling

Nolacycling 893

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I told this story on the old site but for you TABC haters...They come into my ice house because there's been a report of drug usage which is 100% true because the bar property had a small bit of land and people would light up out back. Of course they could also spot any TABC or law enforcement vehicle and cover up. So the inspection continues and they go through the bar, my office, and the office fridge and find nothing. Thank you, so long. As they pull away I remember that someone had paid their bar tab with 4 mason jars full of marijuana butter and the agents had looked right through them. In addition I had a mushroom caramel wrapped in tin foil in the freezer which they had obviously seen. Then a customer comes in and tells me that she had backed into the TABC car denting it, but because it was night they didn't see the damage. 

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Nolacycling

Nolacycling 893

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2 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

Oh Surly. Thread about TABC abusing power turns to a bash on Baptists (generalization much?). Some of y’all really cannot help yourself. 

Back to the thread. My summer job in high school/college was selling beer at the woodlands pavilion. TABC on numerous occasions would set up a “sting” and try to catch us selling to minors. Said minors could not be more obvious and also the TABC twats stuck out with their cowboy hats and pearl snapped shirts. Texas Ranger wannabes. 

My experience was that in stings they didn't want to work hard at tricking you because it would be called entrtapment in court. Juveniles would often be wearing hs letter jackets and id's that clearly showed they were underage. 

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Telegraph_it

Telegraph_it 3,359

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7 minutes ago, Nolacycling said:

My experience was that in stings they didn't want to work hard at tricking you because it would be called entrtapment in court. Juveniles would often be wearing hs letter jackets and id's that clearly showed they were underage. 

That is correct. They could not lie to you. Simply have to ask everyone if they are 21. Complete waste of resources. 

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demos

demos 3,012

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Oh Surly. Thread about TABC abusing power turns to a bash on Baptists (generalization much?). Some of y’all really cannot help yourself. 

There’s a reason why there are so many jokes about Baptists and alcohol. There’s also a reason places like Tyler, TX had so many “private clubs” but you had to drive to another county by beer and/or liquor. Denomination is a common factor in both.
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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11,365

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15 minutes ago, demos said:


There’s a reason why there are so many jokes about Baptists and alcohol. There’s also a reason places like Tyler, TX had so many “private clubs” but you had to drive to another county by beer and/or liquor. Denomination is a common factor in both.

my ma lives in van zandt county. used to have to stop in athens on my way up to get the necessary supplies for family time.

they recently actually went wet a couple years back. like your mom last night.

so now i don't have to stop in that shithole athens.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Also the heads of the largest liquor distributor in Texas will tell you straight up, it's the Baptists.  They've made the most of a crummy situation (the distributors), but you really think it was their idea to go from distillery, to distributor, to TABC, to liquor store, to bar, to on-premise consumer.  

 

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Your Mom

Your Mom 4,856

Posted
Posted
On 12/6/2018 at 1:10 PM, Zepol87 said:

More of a Total Wine guy but fuck TABC putos. 

This.  Spec's used to have better pricing that anyone but the market has averaged out for what I shop for.  Total Wine is always cheaper than Spec's for what I buy.  Spec's and their cash price thing bugs me.  But kudos to them for fighting this fight.  I'll head there next time just to help the cause.  

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54,471

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1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Well the people who are already making money selling booze have a vested interest in not increasing competition as well.

Bingo.  If you ever need an example for the phrase "Politics make strange bedfellows," the two groups most opposed to Sunday liquor sales are the Baptists and the Texas liquor industry.

 

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Guest Lobo

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9 minutes ago, ToY said:

Whatever happened to that Walmart/Costco lawsuit?

Wal-Mart/Costco  optometrists can still sell liquor with a pair of bifocals so long as there's a wall between the bar and the exam lane/dispensery 

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ChiTownDoc

ChiTownDoc 21,175

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On 12/6/2018 at 9:13 AM, DaysOff said:

I know there was a thread about this on TOS, but TABC fails to put Spec's out of business and is now being sued by Spec's and claiming sovereign immunity.

https://www.ksat.com/news/texas/texas-liquor-giant-spec-s-sues-texas-alcoholic-beverage-commission-for-abusive-enforcement-attempt?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=ksat12

 

The state’s largest liquor chain — Spec’s Wine, Spirits and Finer Foods — is suing the Texas Alcohol Beverage Commission for “abusive regulatory overreach” over an enforcement action that dragged on for almost two years before falling apart in administrative proceedings last year, court documents show.

The federal lawsuit, filed in Houston in late August but only recently unsealed, alleges that the TABC “wrongfully and maliciously” attempted to “extort” money from Spec’s by threatening to effectively shut the company down or by making the family-owned business fork over more than $700 million in civil penalties.

The TABC, citing the pending litigation, declined to comment.

In a stinging rebuke of the TABC last year, a pair of administrative law judges said the agency failed to prove dozens of allegations and chastised the agency for failing to disclose evidence to their own witness (and the court). The judges also called out the agency for “stacking” charges, a tactic commonly used to pressure defendants into a settlement. In the end, the judges recommended no fines be assessed against the liquor chain.

Now Spec’s is seeking an unspecified amount of money for damages that include lost profits, more than $1 million in attorneys fees and harm to its reputation. The lawsuit includes a request to impose exemplary, or punitive, damages — which are three times the amount of actual damages.

“Acting under color of law, [the TABC] threatened and pursued groundless allegations and enforcement actions,” the lawsuit says. “[The TABC] intentionally trumped up false claims in knowing violation of the law.”

The lawsuit also alleges the agency provided false testimony during the spring proceedings, which were the administrative equivalent of a trial.

“This plan culminated in an attempt to perpetrate fraud on the court at the trial, which was ultimately unsuccessful,” said Spec’s lawyer Al Van Huff. “This is the type of deceitful and abusive conduct that should never be tolerated by agents of the state of Texas, and the TABC will now be required to answer for its conduct.”

In seeking to have the lawsuit dismissed, state lawyers argued in court filings that the company can’t sue because the agency is a governmental entity that enjoys “sovereign immunity” and court precedent won’t allow Spec’s to get around that.

The state argues that Spec’s already fought for and received relief from the enforcement action when the administrative law judges ruled in its favor.

“Spec’s cannot plausibly allege facts converting its administrative win into a federal claim for attorneys fees and purported lost profits,” the state argues. “Spec’s lawsuit does not assert any viable federal claim from which defendants are not wholly immune, and defendants respectfully request that this court dismiss this case in its entirety.”

Liquor chains like Spec’s must adhere to the state’s antique alcohol laws, which control virtually every aspect of the industry — from how beverages can be marketed to where they can be sold (hint: not at Walmart and Costco).

The TABC’s case against Spec’s began with an audit of the retailer’s operations in February 2013. Three years later, the agency formally alleged that Spec’s ran afoul of various technical provisions of the alcoholic beverage code, including marketing rules and restrictions on dealings with wholesalers.

Spec’s rejected a settlement offer in 2015 and fought back at the State Office of Administrative Hearings, or SOAH. By the time the case went before the SOAH judges, the TABC had threatened to yank all of Spec’s permits or impose fines of up to $713 million, according to calculations made by SOAH.

Then, during an administrative trial in early 2017, one allegation after another crumbled before the judges. And just as the enforcement case was falling apart at SOAH, the TABC found itself in the hot seat in the Texas Legislature after The Texas Tribune reported on spending controversies and abusive treatment of companies it regulates. Those scandals prompted a wave of retirements and forced departures of top agency honchos.

Lol.  TABC run by amateurs?  Everybody knows govt agencies are supposed to pick on the smaller guys.  Well done, idiots.  

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Texas_Rocks

Texas_Rocks 347

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They hassled me in the summer of '86 running undercover stings at the 7/11 carding youths coming out of the store with 6 packs. Pulled us over in an unmarked car. Didn't have my license on me but had the number memorized and they ran it through SCMODS or whatever the fuck and let us go. I was 19 and legal at the time. "See you in September boys", was his quote walking away. Fucking asshole civil servant wanna be cop.


Pulled into to a connivence store on Lamar and noticed the TABC hassling someone in the parking lot. Walked into the store and I recognize a teenage bag boy from the club about to successfully purchase a 12 pack.

Me- “Hey, dude! You don’t want do that. The TABC is right out there in the parking lot.”

Him- Deer in the headlights. Not a word. Grabs his cash of the counter and hauls ass.

I could always count on that kid to have my gear shined an ready after that.

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RPM

RPM 26,366

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5 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Lol.  TABC run by amateurs?  Everybody knows govt agencies are supposed to pick on the smaller guys.  Well done, idiots.  

There's an old saying "never pick a fight with someone that buys ink by the barrel." In this case it's whiskey and lawyers, but you get the idea.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54,471

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Deej said:

If you were over 18 when it changed, were you grandfathered in? I can't remember.

Hell no.  The liquor stores near campus got cleaned out that weekend.

I didn't have a whole lot of money, but I do remember that I took about all I had and bought as many bottles of the cheapest vodka (Taaka) I could.

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Deej

Deej 76,972

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49 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Hell no.  The liquor stores near campus got cleaned out that weekend.

I didn't have a whole lot of money, but I do remember that I took about all I had and bought as many bottles of the cheapest vodka (Taaka) I could.

I remember visiting Colorado School of Mines my senior year of high school, and they had just changed, but since I was 18 already, they let me drink. Fucking Texas.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I've just always thought "timing" people's alcohol consumption, at least in terms of off-premise sales, was such a weird justification in somebody's head.  

And the Lord does not want people having alcohol on his Sabbath.  Well, first off his Sabbath was mostly on Saturday.  And even if it's on Sunday, what's the difference between a beer at 11am on Sunday and a beer at noon on Sunday?  Why is a bourbon on a Sunday evening forbidden but a bourbon on Monday at 10:00a perfectly fine?  

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23,486

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Posted (edited)

Only time I've really been in a bind with Texas alcohol sale laws is Easter morning. Needed some beer to keep the cooks happy  at Church.  We've since wised up and stock the fridge in advance and just get a keg on Saturday. 

Edited by Anastasis
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