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Kansas State hires North Dakota State's Chris Klieman as head coach

Machinator

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15625

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

They aren't kids.  They can go to war and die for this country.   Stop calling young black men "thugs" and young men white saying racist things "kids."  


We all know exactly what you mean. 

Oh, look - the resident bleeding twat.  

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Tex Pete
Tex Pete

That dude‘s comments were neither hate speech nor derogatory toward another student. Completely insensitive? Absolutely. People need to quit letting others’ words control them. 

satyanash
satyanash
TwiceHorn
TwiceHorn

And you dare, on the other thread, to state that I have said nothing coherent. You are babbling incoherent nonsense about white supremacy, violence, and campus speech.  And coherently incorrectly

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NWAustinDude

NWAustinDude 2266

Posted
Posted

Excellent protest by the KSU players. Even if klanboy is protected, the group effort to keep the bright light on his racism is outstanding.

I also find the terms "cancel culture" and "virtue signaling" to be dog whistles.

Hardly is Klanboy student going to be cancelled for life. He may even end up being a Supreme Court Justice, or President, or King of Facebook.

 

 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Texaspython said:

Which is why you can’t go to the West Mall and yell “Die N’s, Die N’s”. This is the functional equivalent of that. Racists talk in coded language and that’s what a kid like this was doing. He can absolutely get kicked off campus and should. No Constitutional challenge will suffice.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.  

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Your analysis in this thread was compelling.

Well, to someone like yourself, sure. The “1st amendment is absolute” is just the sort of ignorant analysis that breeds the current brand of stupidity in this country of which I know you subscribe.

The first amendment was never meant to be absolute and never has been. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

Well, to someone like yourself, sure. The “1st amendment is absolute” is just the sort of ignorant analysis that breeds the current brand of stupidity in this country of which I know you subscribe.

The first amendment was never meant to be absolute and never has been. 

Nice strawman.  Your reading comprehension is as good as your legal analysis.

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Nice strawman.  Your reading comprehension is as good as your legal analysis.

I called you a lawyer but I’d be shocked if you have ever stepped foot in a federal court. I’d guess you’ve read some websites about campus speech which are also, very much wrong on the law. 

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

I called you a lawyer but I’d be shocked if you have ever stepped foot in a federal court. I’d guess you’ve read some websites about campus speech which are also, very much wrong on the law. 

Wrong on all counts.  I currently have three cases in federal court, am licensed in five, and clerked for a federal district court judge.

But let's get this straight, in your legal opinion, K State kicking that student out for that twitter post would not violate the First Amendment?

Edited by Johnny Sack
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32079

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

I called you a lawyer but I’d be shocked if you have ever stepped foot in a federal court. I’d guess you’ve read some websites about campus speech which are also, very much wrong on the law. 

You're really doubling down on the ignorance where it concerns the First Amendment.

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Wrong on all counts.

But let's get this straight, in your legal opinion, K State kicking that student out for that twitter post would not violate the First Amendment?

Yes and I can’t believe an actual lawyer (assuming you really are one) would disagree. 

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You can't be helped.

Look, if you haven’t dealt with these issues it’s easy to say “hate speech is totally allowed”. I get it, but you’re wrong. This type of speech given the context and again, using coded language, can be censored by a University. This isn’t difficult stuff, happens everyday in our educational institutions. Sometimes it’s an overstep, sometimes not. In this context they absolutely can expel him assuming they don’t violate any other rights he has.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

Look, if you haven’t dealt with these issues it’s easy to say “hate speech is totally allowed”. I get it, but you’re wrong. This type of speech given the context and again, using coded language, can be censored by a University. This isn’t difficult stuff, happens everyday in our educational institutions. Sometimes it’s an overstep, sometimes not. In this context they absolutely can expel him assuming they don’t violate any other rights he has.

I’ve dealt with school speech as a clerk and professionally in a pro bono case.  
 

You got a case core for coded hate speech exception for an off campus twitter joke when the student wasn’t even in school session and how this joke was even close?

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’ve dealt with school speech as a clerk and professionally in a pro bono case.  
 

You got a case core for coded hate speech exception for an off campus twitter joke when the student wasn’t even in school session and how this joke was even close?

I don’t think it was a joke. 

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Helobious

Helobious 9820

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On 6/29/2020 at 11:22 AM, BabaYaga said:

To unpack this further, they did know one another and worked together.  Rumors were this cop was a giant ass to customers as well and Floyd called him out on it repeatedly.  If true, then not only is it not racially motivated, but you CAN argue for some measure of prejudice and malice.  

Getting off topic, but there’s no credible evidence at all that they had any previous interaction. They did work part-time security at the same place but there’s no evidence that they had ever met. Only one person ever said that they knew each other, and that guy retracted his story weeks ago, saying he had Floyd confused for a different black security guard. The owner of the club they worked at has no record of them working the same night.

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15625

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Getting off topic, but there’s no credible evidence at all that they had any previous interaction. They did work part-time security at the same place but there’s no evidence that they had ever met. Only one person ever said that they knew each other, and that guy retracted his story weeks ago, saying he had Floyd confused for a different black security guard. The owner of the club they worked at has no record of them working the same night.

I just heard as much (rumors, as stated) that they had worked together prior and these actions (the officer) were not unknown as he'd been a dick to patrons on multiple prior occasions and questioned whether that would come up in the trial?

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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 21488

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Texaspython said:

Look, if you haven’t dealt with these issues it’s easy to say “hate speech is totally allowed”. I get it, but you’re wrong. This type of speech given the context and again, using coded language, can be censored by a University. This isn’t difficult stuff, happens everyday in our educational institutions. Sometimes it’s an overstep, sometimes not. In this context they absolutely can expel him assuming they don’t violate any other rights he has.

Your thinking is dangerous. Who is the arbiter of "coded language?" That's absolutely absurd, and is one reason we have a First Amendment.

College used to be a place where ideas were debated. It's become a place where people are mostly taught what to think and their belief systems aren't challenged as long as they subscribe to mainstream thought. I saw and heard all sorts of weird things on the 40 Acres. Sometimes, I was uncomfortable with it, but it definitely made me think.

I learned how to defend my own beliefs with logic, and in some instances, my thinking changed. That's healthy. Shouting people down or kicking them out of school for a first offense of wrong think is not healthy for that student (even if he is truly a wrong-thinker) or for the student population at large. Mob rule is not a good thing for anyone. Some day, the mob will come for you, too.

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Your thinking is dangerous. Who is the arbiter of "coded language?" That's absolutely absurd, and is one reason we have a First Amendment.

College used to be a place where ideas were debated. It's become a place where people are mostly taught what to think and their belief systems aren't challenged as long as they subscribe to mainstream thought. I saw and heard all sorts of weird things on the 40 Acres. Sometimes, I was uncomfortable with it, but it definitely made me think.

I learned how to defend my own beliefs with logic, and in some instances, my thinking changed. That's healthy. Shouting people down or kicking them out of school for a first offense of wrong think is not healthy for that student (even if he is truly a wrong-thinker) or for the student population at large. Mob rule is not a good thing for anyone. Some day, the mob will come for you, too.

This isn’t thought police. That guy can be as bigoted as he wants. The problem is extremist right wing violence on campus. That’s the number one threat to anyone going to class so you bet your ass they have a right to evaluate on a case by case basis and afford due process. Any reference to violence in today’s day and age has to be carefully considered. 

People aren’t taught what to think on campus these days. I think most older generations have a problem with the way the younger generations have rejected latent racism.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

This isn’t thought police. That guy can be as bigoted as he wants. The problem is extremist right wing violence on campus. That’s the number one threat to anyone going to class so you bet your ass they have a right to evaluate on a case by case basis and afford due process. Any reference to violence in today’s day and age has to be carefully considered. 

People aren’t taught what to think on campus these days. I think most older generations have a problem with the way the younger generations have rejected latent racism.

It is?  Where?

I don't know if you went to college, and if so maybe in that fictional school from the movie Higher Learning, but 90% or more of campus violence is alcohol related.

I also saw no reference to violence in that tweet.  And certainly no call to incite violence.

I have a strong feeling you are the type that sees racist violent boogeymen around every corner.

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

It is?  Where?

I don't know if you went to college, and if so maybe in that fictional school from the movie Higher Learning, but 90% or more of campus violence is alcohol related.

I also saw no reference to violence in that tweet.  And certainly no call to incite violence.

I have a strong feeling you are the type that sees racist violent boogeymen around every corner.

Maybe you’ve missed all the school shootings we’ve had. 

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

It absolutely is. And nothing in his tweet was remotely bigoted. It was just terribly insensitive.

You're proving my point. Glad you're not in charge of anything.

Hey, that’s what these athletes are fighting against. Your sort of indifference or outright hostility.

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

It is?  Where?

I don't know if you went to college, and if so maybe in that fictional school from the movie Higher Learning, but 90% or more of campus violence is alcohol related.

I also saw no reference to violence in that tweet.  And certainly no call to incite violence.

I have a strong feeling you are the type that sees racist violent boogeymen around every corner.

From NPR and toxicology report:

Quote

A full autopsy report on George Floyd, the man who died after being restrained by Minneapolis police last month, reveals that he was positive for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The 20-page report also indicates that Floyd had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death, although the drugs are not listed as the cause.

In video taken by bystanders, Floyd, 46, is shown repeatedly pleading that he cannot breathe as he is held down with a knee on his neck by former Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin, with three other officers present. The incident has sparked nationwide — and even worldwide — protests.

Floyd's death has been ruled a homicide.

The autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." That conclusion, death due to heart failure, differs from the one reached by an independent examiner hired by the Floyd family; that report listed the cause of death as "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."

 

This medical examiner's report does not mention asphyxiation. However, according to prosecutors, in charging documents filed last week, early results "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

...

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/04/869278494/medical-examiners-autopsy-reveals-george-floyd-had-positive-test-for-coronavirus

Spoiler

...

VI. Toxicology (see attached report for full details; testing performed on antemortem blood specimens collected 5/25/20 at 9:00 p.m. at HHC and on postmortem urine)

A. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens:

1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL

2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL

3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL

4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL

5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL; Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL

6. Cotinine positive

7. Caffeine positive

B. Blood volatiles: negative for ethanol, methanol, isopropanol, or acetone

C. Urine drug screen: presumptive positive for cannabinoids, amphetamines, and fentanyl/metabolite D. Urine drug screen confirmation: morphine (free) 86 ng/mL

...

https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 32079

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Texaspython said:

Again, and I’m pretty sure I’m right given your response, you’ve never stepped in a federal court.

What the fuck does "stepping in a federal court" have to do with knowledge and understanding of the First Amendment?  I've spent 29 years stepping into federal court.

There is no precedent that permits sanction for "coded speech."  To be unprotected by the First Amendment, and thus expellable, the speech has to contain a direct incitement to violence or other unlawful behavior and be directed specifically to someone.

Both cases that have considered college hate speech codes at public universities have struck them down. 

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/721/852/1419700/

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/774/1163/1425792/

This isn't some First Amendment dick-measuring tough-guy thread.  As offensive as the K-State guy's post was, he can't be expelled for it under the First Amendment.  That's a different issue than whether he doesn't challenge it, but if he did, he would win because it's state action sanctioning speech based on content.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

What the fuck does "stepping in a federal court" have to do with knowledge and understanding of the First Amendment?  I've spent 29 years stepping into federal court.

There is no precedent that permits sanction for "coded speech."  To be unprotected by the First Amendment, and thus expellable, the speech has to contain a direct incitement to violence or other unlawful behavior and be directed specifically to someone.

Both cases that have considered college hate speech codes at public universities have struck them down. 

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/721/852/1419700/

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/774/1163/1425792/

That’s a fact question. What is or isn’t a threat. Given the current climate, that can certainly be considered a threat. Certainly enough to pass a Constitutional challenge. It was certainly a reference to violence as right wing ideologies all over the country are calling for violence.

 

Congrats on doing crim defense work. I’ve seen your opinion on the Flynn matter. It’s wrong too.

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0xdeadbeef

0xdeadbeef 1699

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Texaspython said:

That’s a fact question. What is or isn’t a threat. Given the current climate, that can certainly be considered a threat. Certainly enough to pass a Constitutional challenge. It was certainly a reference to violence as right wing ideologies all over the country are calling for violence.

 

Congrats on doing crim defense work. I’ve seen your opinion on the Flynn matter. It’s wrong too.

 

You see something that could be considered a threat in this?

Quote

“Congratulations to George Floyd on being drug free for an entire month!”

Really?

 

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jinx

jinx 2636

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Texaspython said:

Maybe you’ve missed all the school shootings we’ve had. 

I am already kicking myself for jumping into this shit flinging contest, but how in the hell do you link that tweet to school shootings?

r/MovieDetails - In Office Space (1991), Tom Smykowski's inane Jump To Conclusions mat incorrectly spells the word 'lose'.

Edited by jinx
mat seemed appropriate
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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, jinx said:

I am already kicking myself for jumping into this shit flinging contest, but how in the hell do you link that tweet to school shootings?

It doesn’t have to be a shit flinging contest.

Almost every school shooting as been linked to right wing extremist. Usually through social media and the like. It’s become the largest domestic terrorist threat in America. Schools have a right to be cognizant of the threat and those that celebrate it.

Celebrating the wanton murder of a black man certainly fits. Of course, it depends on where people get their information. Fox News certainly doesn’t report on domestic right wing terrorists. Or if they do, they aren’t reporting the truth.

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Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, JFKFC said:

I'm still waiting on one of the resident experts in Bird Law to post the segment of the constitution that says everyone is entitled to a inviolable 4-years as a student at Kansas State University. 

Is there a point here?   You don’t think public schools have to follow the constitution just because there is no right to be  student at one?

You think Texas could expel students for getting abortions or interracial dating because students aren’t entitled to a inviolable 4-years as a student at Texas?

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Texaspython

Texaspython 231

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, SwanderedTalent said:

well, then, he should be locked up, don't you think?

I personally like the idea of throwing people who offend the football team in jail. 

No, it isn’t criminal in nature. That would be a much higher standard.

But it should get you kicked out of KSU given his platform. He knew what he was doing and should pay the consequences. His life isn’t over. He can recover. 

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