The Athletic - College football leaders ready to discuss eight-team Playoff

[rickyspub 801]

8 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with UCF. UCF deserves nothing with that putrid schedule. Schedule better OOC opponents and they will be taken seriously.

Slippery slope IMO. Adding one or two games against the P5 doesn't make their schedule any less putrid when deciding on which teams should be playing for a national title. Texas plays 12 P5 teams out of its 13 games and we are likely deemed unworthy if we lose 2, but UCF playing 1 or 2 P5 teams out of 13 games should be taken seriously?

[Tex Pete 20354]

2 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

So, how would no CCG in the SEC, B1G, ACC and PAC work?  There's no way they could have a true round robin.  That doesn't add up. 

Fuck 'em.

[Rimbo 25934]

2 hours ago, CastHorn said:

That’s alot of games to ask from an amateur student athlete.

You remove the 12th game that was added a couple of years ago, and bam. Room for an 8-team playoff.

[Tex Pete 20354]

2 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

lol at  that

SEC w/ 14 teams means every fking game would have to be an SEC game....  which means no more OOC games ever, and no cupcakes at all.  

it also means if there is a good chance that only 8 or 9  SEC teams will be allowed to play in a bowl game every year because they need to have a winning record, and with no cupcakes to pad their wins....

Fuck 'em.

[Tex Pete 20354]

2 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

cool   if everyone else does it, it allows us to exclude the SEC from the MNC.... would be an epic meltdown from ESPN

Fuck 'em.

[bamachine 1231]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is the best line..... so true.

It's easy.  

1.  Every conference agrees to play the same number of regular season games, with the same number of conference games and mandated number of games vs FBS opponents.  Sorry SEC, ACC, some B12, some B1G teams, we're reducing your ridiculous scheduling advantages.

 

 

ftfy

FWIW, I agree that we need standardized scheduling in all leagues. For the P5 make it 9 conf games, 1 P5 OOC and other two can be any combo of P5/G5/FCS)no two games against FCS except in emergency situations). If a G5 wants to qualify, they must play at least two P5 opponents.

[El Squared 1802]

9 minutes ago, bamachine said:

I am not sure they are not going along with it, they are just not willing to do away with the SECCG to get it. This year and many others, they would have welcomed a 8 team playoff, if it meant a second SEC team got in.

Its a hollow argument that SEC won't give  up the CCG to get to 8. They have had years of biased benefit to give a chance to 2 teams, no one else had that luxury, they want to protect their advantage. If the "student athletes" are playing too many games, cut out one FCS regular season yawner each year. With all the bowls, half the teams go to a yawner bowl game anyway.

[Tex Pete 20354]

8 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

It’s baffling how people refer to SEC scheduling advantages as if the conference/schools are doing something every other conference can’t. It’s not their fault if other conferences/schools shoot themselves in the dick.

Not everyone enjoys watered down shit like the SEC mouthbreathers do.

 

Fuck 'em.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Tex Pete

[Tex Pete 20354]

6 minutes ago, bamachine said:

ftfy

FWIW, I agree that we need standardized scheduling in all leagues. For the P5 make it 9 conf games, 1 P5 OOC and other two can be any combo of P5/G5/FCS)no two games against FCS except in emergency situations). If a G5 wants to qualify, they must play at least two P5 opponents.

Fuck 'em.

P5 conference teams should NEVER play FCS teams.

[bamachine 1231]

Just now, El Squared said:

Its a hollow argument that SEC won't give  up the CCG to get to 8. They have had years of biased benefit to give a chance to 2 teams, no one else had that luxury, they want to protect their advantage. If the "student athletes" are playing too many games, cut out one FCS regular season yawner each year. With all the bowls, half the teams go to a yawner bowl game anyway.

No, they don't want to give up the fuckload of money they make off the SECCG. The SECCG makes more on average than the rest of the P5 CCGs combined. Again, they would have welcomed 8 this year, as UGA likely gets ab at large spot and the conference gets another huge payout. 

[bamachine 1231]

1 minute ago, Tex Pete said:

Fuck 'em.

P5 conference teams should NEVER play FCS teams.

Many times, FCS teams are better than bottom dweller P5 or G5 teams. It also helps fund those programs. App St would not be where they are today without those games. Same goes for NDST. 

[Tex Pete 20354]

1 minute ago, bamachine said:

It also helps fund those programs.

I only ever hear this "benevolence" excuse from SEC fans.

Fuck your gaming of the system. It's bullshit.

[henrygandorf 29191]

if ever there was an argument that could be won, it's based on this year, because the draw is so easy.

p5 champs + notre dame + ucf + georgia (one true at large bid).

the drama comes when notre dame is ranked between 8-15, the best mid-major is barely ranked, and the pac-12 champ is ranked 18th.  then you have 5-6 teams in the top 10 clamoring for the 3 at-large bids along with notre dame and the mid-major.

[hookem48 4687]

2 hours ago, CastHorn said:

That’s alot of games to ask from an amateur student athlete. I guess removing conference championships would help. Bowl games would be even more meaningless, regular season games wouldn’t have the same importance either.

Texas high school teams will be playing their 15th game this week in the semi finals with some of these have 2 scrimmages also. I believe college kids can handle it.

[bamachine 1231]

Just now, Tex Pete said:

I only ever hear this "benevolence" excuse from SEC fans.

Fuck your gaming of the system. It's bullshit.

You will hear it quite a bit from FCS fans, of which I am one of those. My alma mater, JSU, has needed those payout games to stay somewhat relevant in their division. B12 teams play FCS teams, maybe not every team but still. ACC plays them, B1G play in state FCS teams. It is no more of a bye week than playing a bottom dwelling P5 or G5 team. Hell, we had more injuries playing against the Citadel than most P5 games this season, dealing with all the cut blocking against an option team.

[El Squared 1802]

3 minutes ago, bamachine said:

Many times, FCS teams are better than bottom dweller P5 or G5 teams. It also helps fund those programs. App St would not be where they are today without those games. Same goes for NDST. 

Years ago the SEC argument was that they couldn't get a MNC because they were all so tough and beat each other up in the regular season and the beauty contest at the end of the season (pre-BCS) unjustly left them out of the discussion. "Settle it on the field" was the battle cry. But now settling it on the field seems a bit inconvenient, unless it an all SEC field.

These arbitrary statements about FCS teams being better or worse than FBS is just that---no proof. 

Settle it on the field. I am sure Citadel is tough, thats why Bama scheduled them late.

[justinjc7 153]

27 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

This has absolutely nothing to do with UCF. UCF deserves nothing with that putrid schedule. Schedule better OOC opponents and they will be taken seriously.

How many P5 schools are going to want to schedule a non-conference game against a team that hasn't lost a game in over 2 years (despite who they are or aren't playing)? Do I think they are a top 4 team in the country? No.  Do I think they can beat Alabama?  No, not likely.  But do they not at least deserve a shot?  They've won every game they've played for the last 2 years, there's nothing more they can do than win every game put in front of them.  The CFP committee has sent the message loud and clear....unless you are a P5 team, you will not have an opportunity to compete for the Championship, period.  Not in terms of talent, but in regards to the NCAA structure, the P5 and Group of 5 schools are all at the same level but how is it fair that half the teams are excluded from getting the opportunity to compete for a national championship? 

Let's not forget what Boise State did to OU.  They had a "putrid schedule" but they played a very good P5 school and beat them.  Hell just last year, UCF beat a solid Auburn team against which they were the underdog.  Just last year they beat a good Auburn team in a big bowl and they had a Heisman contender for most of the year this year, why shouldn't they get a shot at it? 

[bamachine 1231]

3 minutes ago, El Squared said:

Years ago the SEC argument was that they couldn't get a MNC because they were all so tough and beat each other up in the regular season and the beauty contest at the end of the season (pre-BCS) unjustly left them out of the discussion. "Settle it on the field" was the battle cry. But now settling it on the field seems a bit inconvenient, unless it an all SEC field.

These arbitrary statements about FCS teams being better or worse than FBS is just that---no proof. 

Settle it on the field. I am sure Citadel is tough, thats why Bama scheduled them late.

As a Bama season ticket holder, I would much rather have another marquee opponent coming into BDS than a FCS "cupcake". I am just pointing out why those games are played. In Bama's case, it is not for an auto win. It is to ensure they have 7 home games for the season ticket holders. Now that they finally are seeming to go away from the neutral openers, with the ND and UT home and homes scheduled, they may end up with less of those, especially during the home stands of those series.

[Rimbo 25934]

Settle it on the field. Remove the extra game we just added from the regular season, add one game to the playoffs.

Real, real easy.

[El Squared 1802]

6 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

if ever there was an argument that could be won, it's based on this year, because the draw is so easy.

p5 champs + notre dame + ucf + georgia (one true at large bid).

the drama comes when notre dame is ranked between 8-15, the best mid-major is barely ranked, and the pac-12 champ is ranked 18th.  then you have 5-6 teams in the top 10 clamoring for the 3 at-large bids along with notre dame and the mid-major.

The Domers choose to be "independent" for their own rea$son$. 

That's on them. They have to accept their decision. The Pac 12 was not on the beauty contest radar since USC shit up their jammies. But who really knows exactly how bad or good those teams are without actually playing them?

I would rather take chances on a having auto bid for a conference champion than even if the media manipulation machines don't concur, than a bunch of Kurt Bowels and Kork Herpstreaks pumping their masters agenda. Their always will be gnashing of teeth about who gets left out, but it's a bit less subjective in the proposed 8 team model.

The disconnect is the uneven number of conference teams in each conference, the varid CCG selection, OOC schedules etc.

[Tex Pete 20354]

2 minutes ago, bamachine said:

As a Bama season ticket holder, I would much rather have another marquee opponent coming into BDS than a FCS "cupcake". I am just pointing out why those games are played. In Bama's case, it is not for an auto win. It is to ensure they have 7 home games for the season ticket holders. Now that they finally are seeming to go away from the neutral openers, with the ND and UT home and homes scheduled, they may end up with less of those, especially during the home stands of those series.

The SEC clearly does it for a bye week in November. And I personally don’t want 7 home games. 

[bamachine 1231]

4 minutes ago, Herpes said:

 

Get rid of the FCS games.  And if you mandate that the G5 schedule two P5 opponents then you need to take scheduling out of the hands of the AD's and put it into the NCAA or the conferences and require they reciprocate and not avoid playing these G5 teams and have them drop their FCS cupcakes.  

I am not saying all G5 should have to play two P5, only if they want an auto bid for their highest team. I also made those final two games somewhat flexible for the P5 team, any combo of P5/G5/with one possible FCS. Sosome teams cold schedule 2 G5 teams for their last two slots.

[El Squared 1802]

3 minutes ago, bamachine said:

As a Bama season ticket holder, I would much rather have another marquee opponent coming into BDS than a FCS "cupcake". I am just pointing out why those games are played. In Bama's case, it is not for an auto win. It is to ensure they have 7 home games for the season ticket holders. Now that they finally are seeming to go away from the neutral openers, with the ND and UT home and homes scheduled, they may end up with less of those, especially during the home stands of those series.

Agree its not for an auto win but its also not for the "fans".

Its a break with a chance to let players heal a bit deep in the season.... like a bye, but it generates income. Smart. I get the logic.

Its the equivalent of playing a friendly in pro soccer.

Hard to believe much else though.

[rickyspub 801]

The G5 already get $80M+ of the playoff money each season without being a realistic player. Let the FCS have $10M of that to stay off FBS schedules. The reality is that the P5 needs to move to it's own division. The G5 can be the sacrificial lambs like the old FCS for the new P5 division for one game a year.

[Butch Had Not 2971]

Any expansion will need to allow the redshirt rule to be expanded and/or increase scholarship numbers if even by just a few.  Attrition can make the games pretty ugly if teams are nursing injuries. Allow players to hold onto redshirt if they play in expanded playoff. 

[Wiler77 1566]

Scaling back to 11 regular season games solves the CCG issue.  Get rid of one of the meaningless non-conf games during the season and still have a CCG to determine your winner.  P5 conf winners are guaranteed a spot.  This isn't difficult.

Then give HFA to the top 4 teams (must be conference champs), and play it the week after the CCG.

Now you have a regular season that means a whole hell of a lot, you have a CCG that the conferences want to keep, and you don't have to mess with the timing all that much.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, bamachine said:

Many times, FCS teams are better than bottom dweller P5 or G5 teams. It also helps fund those programs. App St would not be where they are today without those games. Same goes for NDST. 

Funny, but those teams aren't the November cupcakes the SEC loves to schedule.

Why is that? #rhetorical

[clapclapclap 9000]

Our long Mythical National Nightmare is almost over.

[bamachine 1231]

1 minute ago, rickyspub said:

The G5 already get $80M+ of the playoff money each season without being a realistic player. Let the FCS have $10M of that to stay off FBS schedules. The reality is that the P5 needs to move to it's own division. The G5 can be the sacrificial lambs like the old FCS for the new P5 division for one game a year.

Either that or let each P5 conference subsidize a partner FCS conference and as a JSU fan, I would be happy.

 

I fully admit, I do not have all the answers. I just get tired of the conference bashing without taking everything into account. I mean, fuck the rest of the teams in the SEC(except maybe Vandy) but the real reason the SEC does anything is about money. Not that that makes them holy, it just makes them smart to take advantage of whatever wrinkles they can.

[bamachine 1231]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

Funny, but those teams aren't the November cupcakes the SEC loves to schedule.

Why is that? #rhetorical

Well, The Citadel just came off a season where they beat a P5 team, when Bama put them on the schedule.

[DanRydell 799]

33 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Fuck 'em.

P5 conference teams should NEVER play FCS teams.

Why? Who gives a shit if Alabama plays The Citadel (160th in Sagarin) or UTEP(188th in Sagarin)?

[Patrick Bateman 3913]

32 minutes ago, bamachine said:

Many times, FCS teams are better than bottom dweller P5 or G5 teams. It also helps fund those programs. App St would not be where they are today without those games. Same goes for NDST. 

This is correct.  I don't agree with outlawing playing FCS teams altogether.  A lot of these programs need the payday to keep their programs viable as well as they use these games for recruiting purposes.  The potential to play on TV, scouting, testing themselves vs a big boy etc, etc.  I think it should be limited to 1 per season though.  No more than one game per season for teams who want to be considered for the playoff.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[Hagbard Celine 10864]

Seeding: no committee, no eye test, no game control, no herbstreit at all.

conference win: +7 points

road P5 win: +6 points

home P5 win: +5 points

road G5 win: +4 points

home G5 win: +3 points

road FCS win: +2 points

home FCS win: +1 points

conference loss: -1 points

road P5 loss: -2 points

home P5 loss: -3 points

road G5 loss: -4 points

home G5 loss: -5 points

road FCS loss: -6 points

home FCS loss: -7 points

Conference Championship Games continue to be played and are included in the calculations.   If Georgia scores higher than Domer using this system, they (dawg) deserve to be in.  Shame on Domer and The Brethren or Army for that matter for not being in a conference.

The only caveat to the 8 slots is the five P5 champions and one G5 champion are in the 8, even if they have buku losses.

I don't have time to run the .xls for this year someone with free time make hay.  Would love to see the table.  Or as they say in footy, "The Ladder".

[clapclapclap 9000]

24 minutes ago, Herpes said:

Get rid of the FCS games.  

Of course you'd raise a sore subject.

[DanRydell 799]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is correct.  I don't agree with outlawing playing FCS teams altogether.  A lot of these programs need the payday to keep their programs viable as well as they use these games for recruiting purposes.  The potential to play on TV, scouting, testing themselves vs a big boy etc, etc.  I think it should be limited to 1 per season though.  No more than one game per season for teams who want to be considered for the playoff.

I don't know of any P5 school other than Florida who played more than one FCS school and that was a weird situation with Idaho dropping down to FCS this season after the game was scheduled.

[pops 6985]

2 hours ago, ShowmeyourTDs said:

I will say that the PAC 12 championship game was pathetic in terms of crowd turnout.  Does anyone even give a shit about football in that part of the country?

Right now outside of salt lake and Pullman, no.  And those are fairly small stadiums.  But if USC or ucla ever get it turned around, they will get support. Same for Arizona, Oregon and possibly Washington. 

[bamachine 1231]

1 minute ago, DanRydell said:

I don't know of any P5 school other than Florida who played more than one FCS school and that was a weird situation with Idaho dropping down to FCS this season after the game was scheduled.

May have been last year, rather than this one but I think Arky had two FCS games, because ND pulled out of a scheduled home and home late and they had to fill a slot quickly. Maybe my memory is failing me but seems like that was the case.

[Huckleberry 32860]

Yes, Idaho was an FBS school when they were scheduled. That makes it more reasonable. And for the record Army and Liberty also played two FCS teams.

[pops 6985]

Fuck auto bids for the P5. Put the 8 best teams in. Does no one remember the absolute pieces of shit coming out of the big east during the BCS years?

The ACC is basically a g5 league without Clemson right now. Fuck, same goes for the sec east and Georgia this year. 

If the top 10 is 3 sec teams, 3 big 12 teams and two pac 10, then give me 8 of those in a playoff. I don't give a fuck about 8-4 northwestern beating Ohio State in a fluke or something. I want to know the best team in the country as determined by a playoff... Not an auto seat at the table because you happened to be in a certain part of the country 100 years ago. 

[Wally Fairway 5549]

Isn't the "real" answer to make a mega-super group of schools that play big money college football. You can take most of the power 5 teams, let a few wanna be schools who are willing to make the investment try to move up. Make football, the motherlode of all money makers, so separate it from traditional conference and strip out a few of the weak sisters of the football world.

There are 66 Power 5, plus ND & BYU - make it 6 Big Time college $$$ conferences, get to 6 10 team conferences (drop 6 of the following Kansas, Rutgers,  Duke, North Carolina, Wake, Baylor,  Oregon St, Vandy). Play 9 conference games, allow 2 OOC games (which can protect traditional rivals) and 1 game against a not Mega $$$ school.

6 conference champions and the 2 best non conference champions go into a playoff.

The non-mega $$$ conferences can set up their own playoff for a national championship, and we can celebrate UCF, or Rice or App St. They can get some smaller $$$ tv contract. And the bowl games can try to fill up their stadium with non-playoff teams.

The big bowl game are part of the Mega $$$ playoffs, and the Yohoo Weedwacker Cherry Idaho Bowl.

 

Send me your $9.95 & make me the commissioner of the MEGA Money College football playoffs.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, bamachine said:

Well, The Citadel just came off a season where they beat a P5 team, when Bama put them on the schedule.

SEC... at the prospect of bigboy scheduling.

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yes, Idaho was an FBS school when they were scheduled. That makes it more reasonable. And for the record Army and Liberty also played two FCS teams.

Army isn't complaining that they belong in a top tier bowl, much less the final 4.

Apples to oranges.  Bigtime.

[Huckleberry 32860]

1 minute ago, pops said:

I want to know the best team in the country as determined by a playoff... 

That's not how it works. Playoffs don't determine best teams, they determine champions.

[Patrick Bateman 3913]

6 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

I don't know of any P5 school other than Florida who played more than one FCS school and that was a weird situation with Idaho dropping down to FCS this season after the game was scheduled.

It's happened several times in the last few years.  Also, there needs to be an agreed upon number of games vs P5 schools.  

[pops 6985]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

That's not how it works. Playoffs don't determine best teams, they determine champions.

I get that, but I still would prefer the best 8 teams in a playoff than anyone getting auto bids. However, I realize the P5's won't agree to it without a guaranteed seat at the table. 

[Guest]

2 P5  non-con games.  Do whatever the fuck you want with the third.

9 conference games.

keep the CCG if you want an auto bid.

13 weeks to play 12 regularly scheduled games.

Edited December 12, 2018 by slorch

[formermav43 4606]

Just now, pops said:

I get that, but I still would prefer the best 8 teams in a playoff than anyone getting auto bids. However, I realize the P5's won't agree to it without a guaranteed seat at the table. 

How are you going to determine the best 8 teams? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, formermav43 said:

How are you going to determine the best 8 teams? 

dumbass....

ask Kirk Herbstreit, of course.

[LonghornSean 3998]

4 hours ago, NowThis said:

no need for HFA, play the first round in Rose, Sugar, Peach and Fiesta for that year.  The NY6 bowls can be the round of 8 and the round of 4 so easily, it's perfect. 

Home -field advantage serves two purposes

- Provides a clear advantage and reward for finishing in the top 4, which would  help to limit the effect an 8-team format has on diminishing the regular season

- Mitigates the issues of fan travel.  Very few fans have the financial flexibility to travel to multiple rounds of neutral-site playoffs on short notice. At bowl sites I think you'd probably see significant numbers of empty seats, or at least a very cold ticket market, particularly with games involving Pac-12 teams.

Edited December 12, 2018 by LonghornSean

[Tex Pete 20354]

36 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

Why? Who gives a shit if Alabama plays The Citadel (160th in Sagarin) or UTEP(188th in Sagarin)?

Because we don't do that bullshit.